Nvidia slams AMD FreeSync: "We can't comment on pricing of products that don't exist"

[kuddlesworth9419]

They are right though. We don't actually know how much more it will cost for us in the end. It might end up costing more for all we know even if the tech is actually free and doesn't cost any licensing fees. 

[Guest]

They are right though. We don't actually know how much more it will cost for us in the end. It might end up costing more for all we know even if the tech is actually free and doesn't cost any licensing fees. 

Yes, we do not know how much freesync monitors will cost yet (and no one is debating this). Nvidia stating that they can't comment on a product that's not released yet is hardly noteworthy news, and this whole article is sensationalist clickbait...

 

They basically just took an obvious statement from nvidia, and added "NVIDIA SLAMS AMD" to the title.

[PortentousLad]

Oh these two companies are so ridiculous with their catfights.

[BroliviaWilde]

I should have guessed this was a click/bait title.  OP, I'm guessing you did this to get clicks/viewcount up to get possibly mentioned on WAN show?

[NeatSquidYT]

Holy shit your profile pic...

[Faa]

I should have guessed this was a click/bait title.  OP, I'm guessing you did this to get clicks/viewcount up to get possibly mentioned on WAN show?

I'm not interested in being mentioned in the wan show, I don't even watch them. All this title says that FreeSync is currently PR and since the beginning of their PR AMD hasn't done anything else than bashing nvidia with a non-existing product. In 8 months time all theyve managed to do is saying they have variable refresh rate when theyre hiding their fps with a cheap korean EDP monitor hiding the brand name with a sticker. So don't tell me their PR wasn't "click bait".

[BroliviaWilde]

I'm not interested in being mentioned in the wan show, I don't even watch them. All this title says that FreeSync is currently PR and since the beginning of their PR AMD hasn't done anything else than bashing nvidia with a non-existing product. In 8 months time all theyve managed to do is saying they have variable refresh rate when theyre hiding their fps with a cheap korean EDP monitor hiding the brand name with a sticker. So don't tell me their PR wasn't "click bait".

no, what your inflammatory title says is exactly this copy/paste: 

 

Nvidia slams AMD FreeSync: "We can't comment on pricing of products that don't exist"

 

 In no way did I mention or imply anything about AMD's or Nvidia's deceptive marketing schemes, I simply pointed out your deceptive title.  Really, you should know better than to post titles like this, unless you get off on stirring up the pot.  

[Faa]

no, what your inflammatory title says is exactly this copy/paste: 

 

Nvidia slams AMD FreeSync: "We can't comment on pricing of products that don't exist"

 

 In no way did I mention or imply anything about AMD's or Nvidia's deceptive marketing schemes, I simply pointed out your deceptive title.  Really, you should know better than to post titles like this, unless you get off on stirring up the pot.  

Deceptive? Have you seen FreeSync doing what its advertised to do yet? No, you just took their words for it. Quite ridiculous to call the title deceptive when the title was pretty much a fact and that when the branding "FreeSync" was deceptive.

[Notional]

Deceptive? Have you seen FreeSync doing what its advertised to do yet? No, you just took their words for it. Quite ridiculous to call the title deceptive when the title was pretty much a fact and that when the branding "FreeSync" was deceptive.

I'm not interested in being mentioned in the wan show, I don't even watch them. All this title says that FreeSync is currently PR and since the beginning of their PR AMD hasn't done anything else than bashing nvidia with a non-existing product. In 8 months time all theyve managed to do is saying they have variable refresh rate when theyre hiding their fps with a cheap korean EDP monitor hiding the brand name with a sticker. So don't tell me their PR wasn't "click bait".

 

Yes their desktop monitor did what it was advertised to do. But since it was just a firmware upgraded off the shelf monitor, the interval was only 40-60hz. It did what it was supposed to in that interval. New display controllers hitting the vendors, with full Adaptive Sync support, will be present in a month or so.

 

Claiming that a desktop monitor has eDP clearly proves yet again, that you have no idea what you are talking about. eDP is integrated displayport standard in laptops. NOT desktop monitors. eDP STILL is NOT the same as Adaptive Sync, and does not support variable framerates synced to the gfx' fps. Neither does it support the mandatory communication with min/max intervals, that AS also requires.

 

All of this has already been proven elsewhere in this thread. I guess you could not be bothered reading any of it.

[Faa]

Claiming that a desktop monitor has eDP clearly proves yet again, that you have no idea what you are talking about. eDP is integrated displayport standard in laptops. 

Plenty of desktop panels are using EDP internally which is no different than DP's main signal. You can hack edp to DP, raja koduri from AMD even said this and intel showcased this.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1462144/blurbusters-displayport-1-2a-specification-change-request-for-industry-standard-variable-refresh-rate/0_100 read maarten12100's comments here through all the pages. 

Wendell claiming he had a 27" ips with EDP, he needed an edp to dp to use it (ctrl+f Wendell): https://teksyndicate.com/videos/korean-monitors-x-star-dp2710-led-multi-first-fsm-270yv-shimian-etc 

 

 

eDP STILL is NOT the same as Adaptive Sync, and does not support variable framerates synced to the gfx' fps. 

Aye but Adaptive Sync hasn't been showcased by AMD yet or else they wouldn't hide their FPS. Or else you use an excuse that Adaptive sync can't do it.

eDP spec doesnt even mention the possibility of variable refresh rate; "However, to support particular video formats from the Source, the Sink can implement the option to ignore the set of MSA Timing Parameter listed in Table 3-7 below." That's the part of the spec that 'allows' variable refresh to be implemented without violating the spec. You never had to implement variable refresh to be compliant with eDP. The spec that requires variable refresh is adaptive sync, which is an optional extension to 1.2a. There's a big difference between "it is possible to make a variable refresh device compliant with this standard", "this standard requires variable refresh to be implemented", and "we have a working implementation of variable refresh."

Spec link; http://wenku.baidu.com/view/51d24437f111f18583d05a6e

And the Anandtech video, perfectly pointing out that the eDP demonstration was running at a fixed frame rate.

 

 

All of this has already been proven elsewhere in this thread. I guess you could not be bothered reading any of it.

You haven't proved anything yet except that AS is more than EDP. You've been using salestalk as evidence to back up their false presentations that was proved to be false.

Haven't you seen the anandtech article I linked? Testing variable refresh rate with vsync enabled on both laptops, isn't variable anymore >.>

[Notional]

Plenty of desktop panels are using EDP internally which is no different than DP's main signal. You can hack edp to DP, raja koduri from AMD even said this and intel showcased this.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1462144/blurbusters-displayport-1-2a-specification-change-request-for-industry-standard-variable-refresh-rate/0_100 read maarten12100's comments here through all the pages. 

 

 

Aye but Adaptive Sync hasn't been showcased by AMD yet or else they wouldn't hide their FPS. Or else you use an excuse that Adaptive sync can't do it.

eDP spec doesnt even mention the possibility of variable refresh rate; "However, to support particular video formats from the Source, the Sink can implement the option to ignore the set of MSA Timing Parameter listed in Table 3-7 below." That's the part of the spec that 'allows' variable refresh to be implemented without violating the spec. You never had to implement variable refresh to be compliant with eDP. The spec that requires variable refresh is adaptive sync, which is an optional extension to 1.2a. There's a big difference between "it is possible to make a variable refresh device compliant with this standard", "this standard requires variable refresh to be implemented", and "we have a working implementation of variable refresh."

Spec link; http://wenku.baidu.com/view/51d24437f111f18583d05a6e

And the Anandtech video, perfectly pointing out that the eDP demonstration was running at a fixed frame rate.

 

 

You haven't proved anything yet except that AS is more than EDP. You've been using salestalk as evidence to back up their false presentations that was proved to be false.

Haven't you seen the anandtech article I linked? Testing variable refresh rate with vsync enabled on both laptops, isn't variable anymore >.>

 

You must be bonkers If you think I'm going to read through 43 pages of forum thread, just to discuss your point. LIke I've said plenty of times, Gsync and Adaptive Sync are both based on eDP's variable VBlank.

I think we are finally getting somewhere (with the highlighted part). Variable vblank is a power savings feature. Idk if it's mandatory or not, and I don't care.

None of it is relevant. eDP is its own spec, and Adaptive Sync/DP 1.2 is its own spec. They are not the same. Good. EDP as a standard does not support Adaptive Sync, good. So why say (highlighted):

 

If you'd read it, it was literally ported from eDP to DP1.2a. Haven't you seen my post in #40 where I showed a video with the laptop (not working) and the Computex demo (desk monitor) where theyve hidden FPS on purpose and that source found it out? Besides there's a difference between switching between different static refresh rates and dynamic adjusting on the fly.

 

 

As for your point that Adaptive Sync hasn't been showcased. Not true either. That is what the firmware upgrade for the desktop monitor was. What has not been showcased yet, is a native Adaptive Sync supporting display controller. We will see them in a month or 2 (or the vendors will at least, who knows about nda's and stuff).

 

You haven't proved anything yet except that AS is more than EDP. You've been using salestalk as evidence to back up their false presentations that was proved to be false.

Haven't you seen the anandtech article I linked? Testing variable refresh rate with vsync enabled on both laptops, isn't variable anymore >.>

 

Which is the exact point. EDP and AS is not the same thing. So again, claiming the AS is "literally ported from edp" is simply wrong. I'm glad you admit, I've proven that. The rest is pretty much based on the official documents of VESA. If you want to call that salestalk, sure, go ahead.

 

Both you and @patrickjp93 has been spreading so much FUD on this board, about Adaptive Sync. Baseless misinformation and (at least in patricks case), outright lying. I'm not sure what your point is or what you are trying to accomplish. Obviosly Adaptive Sync, can do what Gsync can, why else would VESA claim so. Nvidia is a VESA member, surely they would object to VESA lying.

Every gamer should have variable refresh rate monitors. Adaptive Sync can give that to everyone. Gsync can give that to only Nvidia users. An open standard, always renders proprietary solutions, redundant (unless there's feature differences). Gsync is redundant. Let's get the standard out, so everyone can enjoy this tech.

[Bouvie_11]

Why didn't AMD just call Freesync openSync. It's not exactly 100% free.

[Notional]

Why didn't AMD just call Freesync openSync. It's not exactly 100% free.

 

It's 100% royalty free. What vendors choose to charge extra for the function, has nothing to do with AMD or VESA. Pure speculation from my side, but I'd bet that AS would be standard for most consumer monitors in a few years, without any price premium for the function in itself.

[LAwLz]

Why didn't AMD just call Freesync openSync. It's not exactly 100% free.

Because AMD wanted to mock Nvidia.

 

 

It's 100% royalty free. What vendors choose to charge extra for the function, has nothing to do with AMD or VESA. Pure speculation from my side, but I'd bet that AS would be standard for most consumer monitors in a few years, without any price premium for the function in itself.

Even with it being 100% royalty free, there are still many aspects of it that are non-free. Calling it "FreeSync" is just disingenuous. It's not FreeSync that is royalty free either. It's Adaptive-Sync that is. I am not even sure FreeSync will be used by anyone other than AMD.

[Faa]

You must be bonkers If you think I'm going to read through 43 pages of forum thread, just to discuss your point. 

Haven't you read Wendells comment that he had a 27" samsung ips panel he needed to use an edp to DP adapter? (Edited the post seems like you missed it). Btw just sort it on 100 posts per page and ctrl+f "maarten12100". He explained how you can transform it

  

 

None of it is relevant. eDP is its own spec, and Adaptive Sync/DP 1.2 is its own spec. 

Which I agreed on but I didnt agree that AMD has been showing us variable refresh rate in their demo with the desktop monitor. They would have showed it if this was the case and the source claimed to have a fixed rate. 

Quote from Dave Baumann who works at AMD: The demo was a full "FreeSync" demo, i.e. controlled variable refresh rate. DisplayPort ActiveSync is not, however, FreeSync, it is purely part of the ecosystem specification that enables FreeSync to work. FreeSync uses the specification and GPU hardware and software to sync the refresh rates.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1852034&postcount=184

Now go through this post (has it about the laptops), raja kojduri (works for amd) is claiming EDP has variable refresh rate as well;

During the demonstration AMD's Koduri had two identical systems side by side based on a Kabini APU . Both were running a basic graphics demo of a rotating windmill.  One was a standard software configuration while the other model had a modified driver that communicated with the panel to enable variable refresh rates. 

Embedded Display Port (eDP) apparently has a feature to support variable refresh rates on LCD panels.  This feature was included for power savings on mobile and integrated devices as refreshing the screen without new content can be a waste of valuable battery resources.  But, for performance and gaming considerations, this feature can be used to initiate a variable refresh rate meant to smooth out game play, as AMD's Koduri said.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Variable-Refresh-FreeSync-Could-Be-Alternative-NVIDIA-G-Sync

 

I'm not sure what your point is or what you are trying to accomplish. Obviosly Adaptive Sync, can do what Gsync can, why else would VESA claim so. 

If FreeSync can do what Gsync can do, they should be showing it not just telling us that it can do it. I was mainly criticizing their demo's/PR, not their products. Like I didnt criticize Gsync, called it a gimmick which I still am (disagree with it but thats fine). I wasn't doubting they'd hand a working product over but they didn't have this in their demo's. If we get their monitors then it doesn't matter if their demo's were presented falsely or not.

Btw that patrick guy, well he claims to have a titan z at school (was just a day or two released) and boots in the GPU bios to enable ECC. Just links a random first google hit link that wasnt pointing anything out. Apparently there's an UI to make changes in the gpu bios. In a different thread he claimed that he sent me PM with evidence he took from school >.>

[Notional]

Haven't you read Wendells comment that he had a 27" samsung ips panel he needed to use an edp to DP adapter? (Edited the post seems like you missed it). Btw just sort it on 100 posts per page and ctrl+f "maarten12100". He explained how you can transform it

 

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here? The 27" was a naked panel without bezel or display controller. It's probably safe to say it's used in AIO Samsung computers, so eDP, like in Laptops, makes sense here. eDP is mostly used on integrated products, where the gfx itself is the display controller, or something like that. No desktop monitor to my knowledge, has or uses eDP. Your example is not a desktop monitor, but simply a naked panel without a display controller:

https://teksyndicate.com/comment/1734228#comment-1734228

 

 

Quick Summary of eDP

Embedded DisplayPort (eDP) was developed to be used specifically in embedded display applications

• Notebook, Netbook, and Notepad PCs
• All-in-One PCs

 http://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vesa.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F12%2FDisplayPort-DevCon-Presentation-eDP-Dec-2010-v3.pdf&ei=8ooHVJ72A8LMyAPfyYGQDg&usg=AFQjCNFb5WUrvTh-d251yKMvxMJdZHbgDQ&sig2=pcacCp_2Z0-PIDvwQZlXpA&bvm=bv.74115972,d.bGQ (why can't you c/p shitty google link sources.. Dumbass google) Look at page 3.

 

So again, what exactly is your point?

 

Which I agreed on but I didnt agree that AMD has been showing us variable refresh rate in their demo with the desktop monitor. They would have showed it if this was the case and the source claimed to have a fixed rate. 

Quote from Dave Baumann who works at AMD: The demo was a full "FreeSync" demo, i.e. controlled variable refresh rate. DisplayPort ActiveSync is not, however, FreeSync, it is purely part of the ecosystem specification that enables FreeSync to work. FreeSync uses the specification and GPU hardware and software to sync the refresh rates.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1852034&postcount=184

Now go through this post (has it about the laptops), raja kojduri (works for amd) is claiming EDP has variable refresh rate as well; (...)

 

 

 

Ok the claim here is that freesync can utilize eDP for synced variable refresh rates (variable VBlank IS variable framerates, just not synced to the gpu's fps), with an AMD APU. If eDP has the graphics card include or control the display controller, then maybe it's possible for an AMD apu to use Freesync on eDP without proper eDP Standards support. If AMD can pull that off, that would be awesome for laptop users. I agree that AMD has not proved or shown SYNCED variable framerates on a laptop, only that they can variate it for GCN 1.0 Freesync (so power savings and native video playback). The eDP standard does not natively support synced variable framerate.

 

But I've never claimed that the laptop proof of concept video was not fixed. AMD will have to prove that they can pull this off. If they can, it would be their own proprietary tech, going beyond the eDP standards spec. But I'm not sure why any of this matters? All integrated units are proprietary to some extent. Only when you connect more stuff together, do standards become necessary.

 

Example: AMD has a DVI to HDMI proprietary converter, where the audio is passed through the DVI port, going beyond the spec standards of DVI. As it's "intergrated", it has no consequence for any other vendor or products.

 

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Variable-Refresh-FreeSync-Could-Be-Alternative-NVIDIA-G-Sync

 

If FreeSync can do what Gsync can do, they should be showing it not just telling us that it can do it. I was mainly criticizing their demo's/PR, not their products. Like I didnt criticize Gsync, called it a gimmick which I still am (disagree with it but thats fine). I wasn't doubting they'd hand a working product over but they didn't have this in their demo's. If we get their monitors then it doesn't matter if their demo's were presented falsely or not.

Btw that patrick guy, well he claims to have a titan z at school (was just a day or two released) and boots in the GPU bios to enable ECC. Just links a random first google hit link that wasnt pointing anything out. Apparently there's an UI to make changes in the gpu bios. In a different thread he claimed that he sent me PM with evidence he took from school >.>

 

Agreed, obviously we need a final product and test the shit out of it, like gsync. But that's what we are all waiting for. Open standards take a lot longer to implement, than some proprietary solution, like gsync. AMD went the standards route, that I believe, will benefit all in the end (nvidia users included). The Adaptive Standard has been approved, now we wait for the display controller vendors to ratify the standard. When they are out for testing Sep or Oct, we will see what they are really capable of (if it's not all under NDA, then we have to wait longer).

 

Like AMD said, they are not going to announce other companies new products (they themselves are under NDA), so they cannot prove themselves just yet. Have some patience, instead of spouting FUD about proof of concepts and prototypes, please. Like I mentioned in another thread, its like criticizing Star Citizen for not working properly and not be feature full, in its pre alpha state.

 

Yeah, I outright called @patrickjp93 bluff and exposed his BS. Oddly he stopped writing in this thread after that. For someone claiming to be a masters student, he surely makes a mockery out of research methodology and source importance. Outright making up sources and terms will get you flunked instantly on a masters degree. Actually doing so, would be scientific fraudulence, which should get you expelled from your degree. I hope for his sake, he's a lot more competent and serious with his education.

Also lol@ enabling ECC in bios.

[Altecice]

Free-Sync was and is an attempt by AMD to steal some of Nvidia's thunder. They don't have anything to show for themselves.

 

Erm not really... G-Sync you need to pay for as it is an extra peace of hardware inside the monitor. Freesync will be a built in industry standard with the new Display Port version. So will cost nothing extra for monitor companies to implement and will make them cheaper.

[7850OC]

Oh these two companies are so ridiculous with their catfights.

=^.^=

[vm'N]

Yeah, I outright called @patrickjp93 bluff and exposed his BS. Oddly he stopped writing in this thread after that. For someone claiming to be a masters student, he surely makes a mockery out of research methodology and source importance. Outright making up sources and terms will get you flunked instantly on a masters degree. Actually doing so, would be scientific fraudulence, which should get you expelled from your degree. I hope for his sake, he's a lot more competent and serious with his education.

Also lol@ enabling ECC in bios.

According to @patrickjp93 hyper-threading also feature some advanced kind of prefetch.

[mr moose]

Erm not really... G-Sync you need to pay for as it is an extra peace of hardware inside the monitor. Freesync will be a built in industry standard with the new Display Port version. So will cost nothing extra for monitor companies to implement and will make them cheaper.

 

source/link, I think you will find they will be more expensive, how much we will not know until release. However there was further speculation that it could be up to $200 more (based on the claim it will be $100 less than the gsync option.)

[Faa]

According to @patrickjp93 hyper-threading also feature some advanced kind of prefetch.

And the Q9550 isn't 64 bit.