Apple’s “Let Loose” iPad event - M4 SoC already, dual-stack OLEDs, haptic (spatial?) Pencil, laptop-style aluminum keyboard

[Obioban]

29 minutes ago, rikitikitavi said:

True… very modest… unless both are manual and well kept - then it is a brag lmao

I mean, they didn’t even make that gen m5 without a manual, so…. Yes, they’re manual. 
 

I’ve put 20,000* track miles on the M3, so not exactly immaculate. 
 

I actually included the picture specifically so it didn’t come across as two new, $100,000+ cars.

 

I’ve never owned an automatic transmission  

[Commodus]

The more I think about it, the more I have gear lust for a 13-inch iPad Pro M4.

 

I don't need it; an iPad Air would be more than enough. And my current workflow would definitely be better on a MacBook. But the new iPad Pro feels more like the laptop of the future than even some of the better-done convertible tablets and foldables. It's a super-thin tablet when you want it to be, but a surprisingly powerful laptop when you need it to be. And of course, that display looks amazing.

 

Now, Apple does need to expand iPadOS' capabilities (or make a touch-friendly macOS), but if I could I'd replace my wheezy 2019 13-inch MacBook Pro with an iPad in a heartbeat. I love the thought of a 5G version, too, so I wouldn't have to hunt for access points while I'm travelling.

[Obioban]

54 minutes ago, Commodus said:

The more I think about it, the more I have gear lust for a 13-inch iPad Pro M4.

 

I don't need it; an iPad Air would be more than enough. And my current workflow would definitely be better on a MacBook. But the new iPad Pro feels more like the laptop of the future than even some of the better-done convertible tablets and foldables. It's a super-thin tablet when you want it to be, but a surprisingly powerful laptop when you need it to be. And of course, that display looks amazing.

 

Now, Apple does need to expand iPadOS' capabilities (or make a touch-friendly macOS), but if I could I'd replace my wheezy 2019 13-inch MacBook Pro with an iPad in a heartbeat. I love the thought of a 5G version, too, so I wouldn't have to hunt for access points while I'm travelling.

I’m excited for that display on a mbp. 
 

It does feel like the iPad is becoming more of a viable computer as so much of the world becomes app first. This one seems way more compelling than any previous iPad.

 

But… every time I use an iPad, I end up feeling like it’s holding me back. 

[saltycaramel]

7 minutes ago, Obioban said:

I’m excited for that display on a mbp. 

 

28 months to go

 

[Neroon]

I'm quite surprised by the opinions people have been giving on the new Pro's. Just also watched Mrwhosetheboss' video on it, and his, and many others, opinions on it, makes me feel like people have been lagging behind.

 

I've been using an iPad Pro 12.9 M1 (1TB/16GB) for half a year now, and recently replaced my laptop, my school laptop that is (my gaming laptop is a different story, which is also my main PC). This is my first and only Apple device, and I have zero plans to get more. Do it definitely lives in a vacuum between my Windows PC and my Android phone.

Still it's been a fantastic experience, I got it with the Magic Keyboard and Pencil (got the whole package second hand for 1k - original price here was over 3k here), and it basically does everything that my phone or laptop doesn't do, or at least not in a way that works well for me.

 

So I use it for 2 main things, school and 3d work, specifically sculpting but also some CAD work.

For school it's great, it's small, sort of light (the keyboard is heavy), battery life is more than enough (turning it on and off throughout the day also doesn't feel as clunky), pencil is great, and even the camera is really useful to take pictures to add to my notes.

There is only 1 app that I'm missing, and that's Fusion 360. There are good CAD alternatives, but there are some serious restrictions on those, unless you want to pay the big bucks. Everything else is available on it.

Sculpting works absolutely great on a touch device.

 

The screen is fantastic (mini led), the sound is seriously good, and obviously it's very fast.

The biggest dislikes I have, is the fact that I can't optimize screen space on my homescreen, and that I'm still not completely used to all the gestures and all that.

 

Both due to the size, keyboard and power, the iPad offer a lot that a phone doesn't. On the other hands the iPad beats laptops in terms of flexibility (touch, pen, usable as tablet and laptop), though of course other such devices compete with it, like the Surface.

 

Speaking of the Surface. I'm mixed as to what the better system is. On 1 hand I like the kickstand in the Surface without it having add much weight to the device, not to mention that it's super flexible and thus great for drawing without having to switch things, and also the lifting of the keyboard is nice.

On the other hand, the Magic Keyboard does offer a proper laptop experience (as in you can actually type on your lap). Using the Surface as a laptop is just a no go. Though honestly I don't use it much as a laptop, the weight is annoying, and I carry an extra cover for when I want to use it in a different angle.

Generally I'm still a bigger fan of the Surface design, but I can definitely see some perks of the iPad approach.

That said, the iPad blows the Surface out of the water, the M chips are seriously impressive, and if you want to do graphical work, the iPad is just miles ahead. The same goes for Android tablets. 

 

But yeah, while it's great that people see the device for what it is, it's been like that for quite a while now.

 

That said, the price is still absurd, it's 1300 euro here to go from 256GB/8GB to 2TB/16GB. Keyboard is like 500... Apple's cost on those 2 is like 100 bucks, but they sell you it for 1800...

[Dracarris]

3 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I normally don't bitch about pricing but god DAMN the pricing is wild if you want the nanoetched matte screen or whatever and have to buy a 1TB iPad Pro.

 

Add the 300$ keyboard (I think that‘s outrageous) and you can basically get yourself a 14“ Macbook Pro, or at least an Air depending on configuration. It‘s thicker and heavier, has no touch screen. But a trackpad, a bigger screen, and macOS, and some more.

[saltycaramel]

10-core M4 in fanless 5mm chassis, apparently:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/6013825

 

12-core Snapdragon X Elite top SKU (X1E-84-100), apparently:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/5863405

[thechinchinsong]

1 hour ago, Neroon said:

I'm quite surprised by the opinions people have been giving on the new Pro's. Just also watched Mrwhosetheboss' video on it, and his, and many others, opinions on it, makes me feel like people have been lagging behind.

 

I've been using an iPad Pro 12.9 M1 (1TB/16GB) for half a year now, and recently replaced my laptop, my school laptop that is (my gaming laptop is a different story, which is also my main PC). This is my first and only Apple device, and I have zero plans to get more. Do it definitely lives in a vacuum between my Windows PC and my Android phone.

Still it's been a fantastic experience, I got it with the Magic Keyboard and Pencil (got the whole package second hand for 1k - original price here was over 3k here), and it basically does everything that my phone or laptop doesn't do, or at least not in a way that works well for me.

 

So I use it for 2 main things, school and 3d work, specifically sculpting but also some CAD work.

For school it's great, it's small, sort of light (the keyboard is heavy), battery life is more than enough (turning it on and off throughout the day also doesn't feel as clunky), pencil is great, and even the camera is really useful to take pictures to add to my notes.

There is only 1 app that I'm missing, and that's Fusion 360. There are good CAD alternatives, but there are some serious restrictions on those, unless you want to pay the big bucks. Everything else is available on it.

Sculpting works absolutely great on a touch device.

 

The screen is fantastic (mini led), the sound is seriously good, and obviously it's very fast.

The biggest dislikes I have, is the fact that I can't optimize screen space on my homescreen, and that I'm still not completely used to all the gestures and all that.

 

Both due to the size, keyboard and power, the iPad offer a lot that a phone doesn't. On the other hands the iPad beats laptops in terms of flexibility (touch, pen, usable as tablet and laptop), though of course other such devices compete with it, like the Surface.

 

Speaking of the Surface. I'm mixed as to what the better system is. On 1 hand I like the kickstand in the Surface without it having add much weight to the device, not to mention that it's super flexible and thus great for drawing without having to switch things, and also the lifting of the keyboard is nice.

On the other hand, the Magic Keyboard does offer a proper laptop experience (as in you can actually type on your lap). Using the Surface as a laptop is just a no go. Though honestly I don't use it much as a laptop, the weight is annoying, and I carry an extra cover for when I want to use it in a different angle.

Generally I'm still a bigger fan of the Surface design, but I can definitely see some perks of the iPad approach.

That said, the iPad blows the Surface out of the water, the M chips are seriously impressive, and if you want to do graphical work, the iPad is just miles ahead. The same goes for Android tablets. 

 

But yeah, while it's great that people see the device for what it is, it's been like that for quite a while now.

 

That said, the price is still absurd, it's 1300 euro here to go from 256GB/8GB to 2TB/16GB. Keyboard is like 500... Apple's cost on those 2 is like 100 bucks, but they sell you it for 1800...

I don't disagree with what you've personally experienced, but its definitely an issue of segmentation. For 90% of people, a much cheaper ipad air or ipad mini is good enough for school and note-taking. For a lot of professionals (in IT/tech for example) being able to install software outside of the app store and having a better file system is really important. Yes, the Ipad pro is amazing for drawing/3d work, but people wonder why such powerful hardware is limited by its OS when it COULD do more (it has the hardware of a macbook, why can't it do macbook stuff?). I think thats why you see so much discourse regarding the Ipad pros. It's an expensive, excellent machine, but sadly limited to precisely the types of applications that your use case benefits from the most.

[NicoV]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

10-core M4 in fanless 5mm chassis, apparently:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/6013825

 

12-core Snapdragon X Elite top SKU (X1E-84-100), apparently:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/5863405

There's an even faster single threaded score in this one:
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/6016039
 

The best part is that compared to the M3 (Most recent benchmark, second most recent benchmark), there seems to be an approximately 15% IPC increase.

[StDragon]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

No idea but if I had to guess something related to Siri, maybe in the types of realms of what Microsoft did with Co-Pilot but on device and more scope limited.

Correct, this is for edge-AI. 

 

Apple is working on Ajax LLM for their new iPhone with iOS 18, and Microsoft has Phi-3 for Windows 11. Both are small parameter LLM variants. Of course, can't forget about the Android platform too.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/24/24139266/apple-ai-model-openelm-iphone-laptops-strategy

[Neroon]

2 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I don't disagree with what you've personally experienced, but its definitely an issue of segmentation. For 90% of people, a much cheaper ipad air or ipad mini is good enough for school and note-taking. For a lot of professionals (in IT/tech for example) being able to install software outside of the app store and having a better file system is really important. Yes, the Ipad pro is amazing for drawing/3d work, but people wonder why such powerful hardware is limited by its OS when it COULD do more (it has the hardware of a macbook, why can't it do macbook stuff?). I think thats why you see so much discourse regarding the Ipad pros. It's an expensive, excellent machine, but sadly limited to precisely the types of applications that your use case benefits from the most.

What mac stuff would that be?

 

I agree that things can still improve, but that can be said about anything.

 

There are absolutely always things that don't work (properly) on a device, but that goes both ways. I'm sure people would love to run i(Pad)OS apps on macbooks.

 

I can definitely see an argument for devices to be able to do everything, but we've seen Microsoft fail at it*, and Google making the choice to have a different OS for laptops.

 

*I don't consider Surface devices as proper tablets, but rather very compact PC's with some touch stuff in it.

 

[vetali]

I will probably stick with my M1 11" pro unless WWDC announces that iPad OS will suck less. I like my iPad, I actually use it more than my laptop now, but it constantly feels like its being limited by the OS being a fringe off iOS rather than MacOS. The app support isn't as good as iOS either.

[thechinchinsong]

1 hour ago, Neroon said:

What mac stuff would that be?

 

I agree that things can still improve, but that can be said about anything.

 

There are absolutely always things that don't work (properly) on a device, but that goes both ways. I'm sure people would love to run i(Pad)OS apps on macbooks.

 

I can definitely see an argument for devices to be able to do everything, but we've seen Microsoft fail at it*, and Google making the choice to have a different OS for laptops.

 

*I don't consider Surface devices as proper tablets, but rather very compact PC's with some touch stuff in it.

 

One of the main ones I listed was a better file system.

 

I mean its fine if the iPad Pro is only pro for 3d artists and designers, but it would be so much more pro if the software could go a little further.

Of course anything can be improved, but this is like the lowest hanging fruit here. BTW, some iOS and iPadOS apps can run on macbooks. The iPad has literally the same chip as a Macbook, a good keyboard and trackpad now, why not. Why not have a toggle to just switch between MacOS and iPadOS? Or add those last little software power features a lot of pros that stick with Macbooks would like? There's so many things Apple can do to improve productivity in iPadOS and they've actually have been doing some of that (albeit slowly over the years). Some people just want a little more.

I mean Microsoft fails at a lot of things (Windows Phone) and they never really had a good mobile/tablet system so as you said, surface is a laptop with fancy touch.

Google has the reverse problem where they have android as their main thing and chromebooks are their little netbook, laptop competitor. Android tablets just don't really come close on the tablet end to Ipad Pros and they don't have the horsepower to do what Apple could be doing with the iPad Pros. Maybe in like 5 years I can ask the same from Android tablet makers when Qualcomm gets their shit together.

 

Apple has the combined knowledge of some of the best mobile, tablet, and desktop software ecosystems. They've already made the change on the hardware side where their phones, tablets, and laptops use basically the same chips. Why don't they leverage some of that amazing MacOS expertise to improve iPadOS?

 

 

[vetali]

36 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

One of the main ones I listed was a better file system.

 

I mean its fine if the iPad Pro is only pro for 3d artists and designers, but it would be so much more pro if the software could go a little further.

Of course anything can be improved, but this is like the lowest hanging fruit here. BTW, some iOS and iPadOS apps can run on macbooks. The iPad has literally the same chip as a Macbook, a good keyboard and trackpad now, why not. Why not have a toggle to just switch between MacOS and iPadOS? Or add those last little software power features a lot of pros that stick with Macbooks would like? There's so many things Apple can do to improve productivity in iPadOS and they've actually have been doing some of that (albeit slowly over the years). Some people just want a little more.

I mean Microsoft fails at a lot of things (Windows Phone) and they never really had a good mobile/tablet system so as you said, surface is a laptop with fancy touch.

Google has the reverse problem where they have android as their main thing and chromebooks are their little netbook, laptop competitor. Android tablets just don't really come close on the tablet end to Ipad Pros and they don't have the horsepower to do what Apple could be doing with the iPad Pros. Maybe in like 5 years I can ask the same from Android tablet makers when Qualcomm gets their shit together.

 

Apple has the combined knowledge of some of the best mobile, tablet, and desktop software ecosystems. They've already made the change on the hardware side where their phones, tablets, and laptops use basically the same chips. Why don't they leverage some of that amazing MacOS expertise to improve iPadOS?

 

 

Replacing Files with Finder would fix about 90% of my issues with iPad OS.

 

Ideally in a perfect world I would like a Samsung Dex like feature on iPad or even iPhone... but that will never happen. Apple wants you to buy an iPhone, and a Mac, and an iPad.

[saltycaramel]

13 hours ago, Commodus said:

The more I think about it, the more I have gear lust for a 13-inch iPad Pro M4.

I just caved.

 

13”, coming from an 11” M2 iPad Pro (soon to become an hand-me-down in the family). 
 

They did it, with that weight and that thinness they finally convinced me to go 13”, 9 years after the unveiling of the original 12.9” iPad Pro. It took six unwieldy 12.9” iPad generations, but seventh time’s a chance. 

 

And, nano-texture. (yeah yeah I know the whole internet right now likes to advice against it if you don’t have a specific professional need for it, “if you have to ask it’s not for you”, but I have plenty of glossy screens in my life already, and it will be nice to have something different for a change after more than a decade of glossy iPads)

 

May God have mercy of my wallet.

[Paul Thexton]

1 minute ago, saltycaramel said:

May God have mercy of my wallet.

 

I've been tempted to upgrade my previous gen iPad Mini to an iPad Air for a while, my eyesight has deteriorated recently to the point that I need reading glasses, and having to put my glasses on to read the screen when I pick up the iPad to quickly look something up / fact check something is bloody annoying, so I'm kind of hoping that a larger iPad configured for a larger font size globally takes that frustration away.

 

In reality, I could probably get away with the base iPad for the same use case and save myself a lot of money, but I'm a tech snob and I don't like not having better hardware

[Obioban]

16 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

 

28 months to go

 

Where did that chart come from?

I hope that coincides with the M5 SoC, or I'm really going to be in a tough spot.

[Neroon]

10 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

One of the main ones I listed was a better file system.

 

I mean its fine if the iPad Pro is only pro for 3d artists and designers, but it would be so much more pro if the software could go a little further.

Of course anything can be improved, but this is like the lowest hanging fruit here. BTW, some iOS and iPadOS apps can run on macbooks. The iPad has literally the same chip as a Macbook, a good keyboard and trackpad now, why not. Why not have a toggle to just switch between MacOS and iPadOS? Or add those last little software power features a lot of pros that stick with Macbooks would like? There's so many things Apple can do to improve productivity in iPadOS and they've actually have been doing some of that (albeit slowly over the years). Some people just want a little more.

I mean Microsoft fails at a lot of things (Windows Phone) and they never really had a good mobile/tablet system so as you said, surface is a laptop with fancy touch.

Google has the reverse problem where they have android as their main thing and chromebooks are their little netbook, laptop competitor. Android tablets just don't really come close on the tablet end to Ipad Pros and they don't have the horsepower to do what Apple could be doing with the iPad Pros. Maybe in like 5 years I can ask the same from Android tablet makers when Qualcomm gets their shit together.

 

Apple has the combined knowledge of some of the best mobile, tablet, and desktop software ecosystems. They've already made the change on the hardware side where their phones, tablets, and laptops use basically the same chips. Why don't they leverage some of that amazing MacOS expertise to improve iPadOS?

 

 

File system definitely should be better, but imo not a strong enough reason to get a different device. But obviously each uses their device for different things.

 

Why not a toggle between the 2? Because it will get messy. Obviously, they also want to sell you a second device, but even if they didn't, running a second OS on a machine like that, just becomes messy and people will mainly focus on 1.

This is actually why Windows 8 had potential, it tried to use a single OS in 2 different modes. The execution lacked in areas and never got good, but that was the potential. If Apple wants to do that, iPadOS needs to be like an app within MacOS, that fully communicates with everything happening in MacOS. It basically means creating a new OS, or probably heavily modifying iPadOS, because I do think that OS makes more sense to rebuild to create 1 big eco system between phones, tablets and laptop form factors.

 

Windows Phone wasn't a failure, it did exactly what it was supposed to do, they worked great, extremely stable and all that. Imo a great mix between Androids open system, and iOS completely closed off system.

The issue was apps. Due to a small market share, and Google blocking them from popular apps like Youtube, it just didn't get traction. It absolutely was a commercial fail, but the OS and devices were absolutely not the issue at all. 

The Surface started of right, if anything the Surface RT was a great device, and the move to ARM was right, but they were early and couldn't get developers to move with that development fast enough.
MS has always been the bigger pioneer of the 2 companies, but Apple just knows when to move into a space at the right time.

So I wouldn't say they never had it, they just didn't have traction.

 

Chromebooks in itself are fine. They are extremely popular in schools. I think their limited system works for them. They don't generally replace another device, kids will still want a Windows PC or like an iPad, but it does well in like schools.

 

Android tablets have their uses, but yeah I agree, they generally don't compete with iPads, they are so much weaker, and the software just isn't at the level that iPads are. In the phone market there is just so much, that it doesn't matter much. But because the Android tablet market is so small, and gets taken up by multiple manufacturers, they are all just way too small to really compete with Apple.

Also, people buy cheap phones, but people generally don't mind spending more on a tablet. Everyone has a phone, plenty don't care and will just get like a Galaxy A, but when you get a tablet, you want that because you want something more than your phone can offer, it's purely a luxury item. So to offer something more than your phone, it needs to offer a lot more.

 

Android tablets imo only really win when you want to install stuff outside of the Play store.

 

As for not improving iPadOS more, I think that's because they worry it will kill MacOS. 

[saltycaramel]

2 hours ago, Obioban said:

Where did that chart come from?

I hope that coincides with the M5 SoC, or I'm really going to be in a tough spot.

It’s from here (an analyst firm making predictions based on the supply chain)

https://omdia.tech.informa.com/blogs/2024/feb/apples-new-oled-it-roadmap-can-help-boost-oled-penetration-rate-in-the-mobile-pc-market-to-14-by-2028

 

Non-Pro devices will get single layer OLEDs.

 

Pro devices will get tandem OLEDs.

 

MBPs will get M4 Pro/Max before the end of 2024. Then probably M5 Pro/Max in late 2025.

 

In late 2026 the current MBP design will be 5 years old and ripe for a redesign. Said redesign will include the tandem OLED. And by then the SoC would be M6 Pro/Max. So if you wait for the OLED MBPs you’re getting the M6 generation. 

[thechinchinsong]

2 hours ago, Neroon said:

As for not improving iPadOS more, I think that's because they worry it will kill MacOS. 

I feel like this is the real reason too. Apple could very easily improve iPadOS but they don't want to cannibalize their macbook sales. Doesn't mean they can't easily do it and have it be amazing for consumers. Its good for the company, not good for the people buying the products.

2 hours ago, Neroon said:

File system definitely should be better, but imo not a strong enough reason to get a different device. But obviously each uses their device for different things.

 

Why not a toggle between the 2? Because it will get messy. Obviously, they also want to sell you a second device, but even if they didn't, running a second OS on a machine like that, just becomes messy and people will mainly focus on 1.

This is actually why Windows 8 had potential, it tried to use a single OS in 2 different modes. The execution lacked in areas and never got good, but that was the potential. If Apple wants to do that, iPadOS needs to be like an app within MacOS, that fully communicates with everything happening in MacOS. It basically means creating a new OS, or probably heavily modifying iPadOS, because I do think that OS makes more sense to rebuild to create 1 big eco system between phones, tablets and laptop form factors.

The toggle thing is a far out example, but why would it be hard for them at all? It's literally the same as running MacOS on a Macbook, except you have a touchscreen OLED instead of their normal Macbook screen. But I agree, having a single OS that fulfills both needs would probably be a more elegant solution than an OS toggle.

 

That leads to why would it be hard for Apple to create a single OS to fulfill both needs? Microsoft had a hard time doing that since like you said, their execution sucked. Why can't Apple, who has lots of experience with really successful OS in both the tablet and desktop categories, not do something that Microsoft tried and had so much potential on a decade ago? Apple already are 95% of the way there with the current iPadOS, they purposefully don't make that tiny extra step cause they want to sell more macbooks.

Its not that listening to user feedback on iPadOS is hard or impossible, its because it doesn't make them more money.

[Obioban]

I don't think they should change iPad OS to make it more professional friendly. They have an OS for that-- MacOS. iPad OS is freaking amazing for my (70 year old) mom, and people of that technical ability level. The day she went from windows to MacOS I went from daily to weekly tech support calls. The day she moved from MacOS to iPad OS, I went to having yearly tech support calls-- if that. SHE can do more on the iPad than she could ever do on a "real" computer, and do it without constant need for my assistance. Anything they do that makes it more of a "real" computer is going to undermine that.

 

Let iPads be iPads. If they're too restrictive for your needs, get a Mac. I'm in that category-- I can't stand using an iPad for anything beyond content consumption and signing documents. As far as I'm concerned, that just means I'm not the target demo for the iPad-- not that they need to change it for me.

 

Similarly, I don't want MacOS dumbed down to make it touch friendly. Anything that works with a finger sized level of precission is going to be worse for use with a mouse.

[Neroon]

2 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I feel like this is the real reason too. Apple could very easily improve iPadOS but they don't want to cannibalize their macbook sales. Doesn't mean they can't easily do it and have it be amazing for consumers. Its good for the company, not good for the people buying the products.

The toggle thing is a far out example, but why would it be hard for them at all? It's literally the same as running MacOS on a Macbook, except you have a touchscreen OLED instead of their normal Macbook screen. But I agree, having a single OS that fulfills both needs would probably be a more elegant solution than an OS toggle.

 

That leads to why would it be hard for Apple to create a single OS to fulfill both needs? Microsoft had a hard time doing that since like you said, their execution sucked. Why can't Apple, who has lots of experience with really successful OS in both the tablet and desktop categories, not do something that Microsoft tried and had so much potential on a decade ago? Apple already are 95% of the way there with the current iPadOS, they purposefully don't make that tiny extra step cause they want to sell more macbooks.

Its not that listening to user feedback on iPadOS is hard or impossible, its because it doesn't make them more money.

A toggle would be hard, because they are different systems. You can't just integrate them together. Having 2 of them would mean you would have to keep rebooting into the other, but more importantly, a lot of things won't synchronize properly. More and more things do get synchronized pretty well, but a lot won't. So if you switch between systems and you have to open up stuff again, log in to certain things etc etc, that's just annoying.

That's what MS did right when it worked right, which was 2 different interfaces, different homescreen etc. The idea was there, but they basically released an alpha version and forced it down peoples throat.

 

For sure, and they are still doing there best to prevent that. They are purposefully limiting 'regular' iPads to make sure they won't replace their Macbooks, and while iPad Pro's can easily replace the Macbook Air, and for some people the Pro, with a price of over 3k (at least here) for a 1TB+ version with keyboard and pen, it is just way more expensive than an Air will be, and thus there is no competition. Even the Air with those specs is still over 2k here.

Don't get me wrong, if you get a keyboard from another brand, cut down on the storage and possibly forget about the pen, you can still get a great alternative going for a Macbook air, but I doubt most will go that route.

3 minutes ago, Obioban said:

I don't think they should change iPad OS to make it more professional friendly. They have an OS for that-- MacOS. iPad OS is freaking amazing for my (70 year old) mom, and people of that technical ability level. The day she went from windows to MacOS I went from daily to weekly tech support calls. The day she moved from MacOS to iPad OS, I went to having yearly tech support calls-- if that. SHE can do more on the iPad than she could ever do on a "real" computer, and do it without constant need for my assistance. Anything they do that makes it more of a "real" computer is going to undermine that.

 

Let iPads be iPads. If they're too restrictive for your needs, get a Mac. I'm in that category-- I can't stand using an iPad for anything beyond content consumption and signing documents. As far as I'm concerned, that just means I'm not the target demo for the iPad-- not that they need to change it for me.

 

Similarly, I don't want MacOS dumbed down to make it touch friendly. Anything that works with a finger sized level of precission is going to be worse for use with a mouse.

Why wouldn't you want that? And it's the iPad Pro for a reason. They can add both functionality, and not mess with the basics of the device. A better file system won't hurt your mom, but it will help others. Stage manager is a great example of that. Not only do the basic models not have it, but it will do nothing if you don't choose to use it.

[Obioban]

11 minutes ago, Neroon said:

Why wouldn't you want that? And it's the iPad Pro for a reason. They can add both functionality, and not mess with the basics of the device. A better file system won't hurt your mom, but it will help others. Stage manager is a great example of that. Not only do the basic models not have it, but it will do nothing if you don't choose to use it.

To the contrary-- whenever she accidentally triggers stage manager or any sort of split screen interface is PRECISELY when she does have a problem with the iPad. Every time they've added some sort of power user feature like that, it does make it worse for the dumbest use case. 

 

Similarly, iPad's default lack of file system is a huge part of what makes it so easy/idiot proof.

[thechinchinsong]

30 minutes ago, Neroon said:

A toggle would be hard, because they are different systems. You can't just integrate them together. Having 2 of them would mean you would have to keep rebooting into the other, but more importantly, a lot of things won't synchronize properly. More and more things do get synchronized pretty well, but a lot won't. So if you switch between systems and you have to open up stuff again, log in to certain things etc etc, that's just annoying.

That's what MS did right when it worked right, which was 2 different interfaces, different homescreen etc. The idea was there, but they basically released an alpha version and forced it down peoples throat.

 

For sure, and they are still doing there best to prevent that. They are purposefully limiting 'regular' iPads to make sure they won't replace their Macbooks, and while iPad Pro's can easily replace the Macbook Air, and for some people the Pro, with a price of over 3k (at least here) for a 1TB+ version with keyboard and pen, it is just way more expensive than an Air will be, and thus there is no competition. Even the Air with those specs is still over 2k here

The toggle could be doable. If Microsoft can almost pull it off, I expect Apple can do better a decade down the line, with much more experience to draw from both interface standpoints. As a matter of fact, it doesn't matter if its hard, consumers don't care if its hard. Apple is capable of solving hard problems, but this just is not their priority. Thats not even the main problem. Apple doesn't even need a toggle. They can just do what you've been suggesting yourself, i.e., add a better file system, and also allow more apps from MacOS. Thats not hard at all. It all boils down to people want the iPad Pro to do something that Apple doesn't want to allow it to, not because its hard or impossible to actually implement.

I can't see what you're trying to say here. So we agree that the iPad Pro is super expensive and has all the right hardware for being a Macbook Air and even a Macbook Pro replacement. Do you also agree that Apple adding a better file system/productivity features would be a good thing for many pro users? If you do, can you see why people might want those extra software and OS features? I mean its Apple themselves that marketed the iPad Pro with the "What's a computer" ad, so is it surprising when there are some pros that want more computer software features for the iPad Pro?

[thechinchinsong]

1 hour ago, Obioban said:

I don't think they should change iPad OS to make it more professional friendly. They have an OS for that-- MacOS. iPad OS is freaking amazing for my (70 year old) mom, and people of that technical ability level. The day she went from windows to MacOS I went from daily to weekly tech support calls. The day she moved from MacOS to iPad OS, I went to having yearly tech support calls-- if that. SHE can do more on the iPad than she could ever do on a "real" computer, and do it without constant need for my assistance. Anything they do that makes it more of a "real" computer is going to undermine that.

 

Let iPads be iPads. If they're too restrictive for your needs, get a Mac. I'm in that category-- I can't stand using an iPad for anything beyond content consumption and signing documents. As far as I'm concerned, that just means I'm not the target demo for the iPad-- not that they need to change it for me.

 

Similarly, I don't want MacOS dumbed down to make it touch friendly. Anything that works with a finger sized level of precission is going to be worse for use with a mouse.

I completely agree with this for non-pro iPads. But can you see why a product named the iPad Pro would have people wanting it to do more than content consumption and signing documents? Obviously the iPad Pro is already amazing at art and 3d professional work, but can you see why people would want a pro device to be able to do more, especially when its already so expensive? You might not be in the target demographic for iPad Pros, but can you see why it seems like Apple is targeting a specific professional demographic, then not catering to some of their wants?