Trick or M3-treat? - Apple’s pre-Halloween “Scary Fast” virtual event

[Dracarris]

Just now, HenrySalayne said:

It is a viable strategy, it's just not a very smart one. I outlined this in previous posts and everybody will tell you, that you should buy what you need today and not something you might need in 5 years (even annoying-voice Linus from the past knew that).

okay, so let me rephrase: My point is that it is a smart strategy. You still cannot comprehend that for some people the perf requirements 5 years down the line are basically unchanged from today so that slighlty over-buying works jolly fine. Not everybody does video editing/encoding, gaming or whatever high-perf workload on their laptop where perf improvements actually matter a lot.

[Dracarris]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Lies, quote me.

On 1/13/2024 at 5:59 AM, leadeater said:

On 1/13/2024 at 1:36 AM, Dracarris said:

Then take the Pro which gets 20+ hours depending on use case.

Sure but then all you are doing is increase the price and making the value look worse all for a battery run time that is almost always not that relevant because the ability to charge is not lacking most of the time.

 

This whole thing about mobile work and super long battery life is just complete and utter fud made up to make out the product is better than it is.

You are right, you never used the word "marketing", so I take that back. Other than that you called "super long battery life", a direct result of improved energy efficiency, "not that relevant" since "most of the time" you can charge (which in itself is already, well baffling, bad luck then for the times where you can't charge, I guess? If only there would be a solution? Nah, it's irrelevant).

 

[HenrySalayne]

5 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

okay, so let me rephrase: My point is that it is a smart strategy. You still cannot comprehend that for some people the perf requirements 5 years down the line are basically unchanged from today so that slighlty over-buying works jolly fine. Not everybody does video editing/encoding, gaming or whatever high-perf workload on their laptop where perf improvements actually matter a lot.

And those people can buy a used / refurbished Macbook Air instead of buying a brand new Macbook Pro...

If you want to live with the illusion that you have a smart strategy, be my guest. Honestly nobody cares what you buy and for what reason - if you don't make a big deal out of how smart it is and how only Apple products can be so smart, because of quality, yada, yada, yada...

 

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

You are right, you never used the word "marketing", so I take that back. Other than that you called "super long battery life", a direct result of improved energy efficiency, "not that relevant" since "most of the time" you can charge (which in itself is already, well baffling, bad luck then for the times where you can't charge, I guess? If only there would be a solution? Nah, it's irrelevant).

 

I said you were saying the fud, not Apple. Because you made claims about battery run times not ever possible and then compared that to made up Windows battery run times which were woefully low and trivially easy to get vast better than, like the actual user experience claim of someone here, 6 hours to 10 hours not 2-4 hours.

 

If you have to construe some uncommon situation where you absolutely cannot charge to make a point fine, but that's just not widely realistic is it? And if you know you aren't going to be able to charge for a long time do you not think someone might take that in to account on how and how often to use the device?

 

So good for you, a MacBook Air user gets 2 hours more before they charge, so vastly better. Am I supposed to actually take this usage scenario seriously in that it makes the MacBook Air so vastly better as a device because of this?

 

And as a reminder the conversation was about a MacBook Air until you wanted to change it.

 

It's fud because the situation barely occurs so not that relevant. Anyone has the ability to plan ahead, how about bring a cheap easy way to charge with you so you aren't caught short? Your inability to plan your day is not my problem.

[Dracarris]

14 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

And those people can buy a used / refurbished Macbook Air instead of buying a brand new Macbook Pro...

True, and then keep that one for equally long. 0 instead of 1 new machine brought to life. I also never said they have to buy a new Pro, why not a new Air? My whole point is to replace the machine less frequently that you suggested.

[HenrySalayne]

38 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

My whole point is to replace the machine less frequently that you suggested.

But this is exactly the wrong approach. A flourishing used market is exactly what you want. Products will trickle down over time to people with another use profile who don't need the performance. My 2013 Macbook replacement is still used by my parents. I passed other devices off to friends or sold them. Even my 2011 Macbook was sold in 2021 and is (hopefully) still having a purpose. Just like for cars the used market is actually the most economical way to own and use computers.

 

[Dracarris]

34 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

But this is exactly the wrong approach. A flourishing used market is exactly what you want. Products will trickle down over time to people with another use profile who don't need the performance. My 2013 Macbook replacement is still used by my parents. I passed other devices off to friends or sold them. Even my 2011 Macbook was sold in 2021 and is (hopefully) still having a purpose. Just like for cars the used market is actually the most economical way to own and use computers.

 

Sure, but not everyone wants to go search on the used market for a new machine every 2-3years, sell their own, transfer everything to a new machine and bear the risk of some hidden damage in the bought machine (when buying from places like craigslist). Handing down within the family for friends ofc is a lot easier. In addition to your Windows machine from 2013 that you still have, there also was a Macbook that you kept for 10years? Doesn't this go against your own strategy, or are/were these machines all used by other people around you and not yourself? Otherwise, if people keep their old machines as secondary or tertionary or whatever ones but replace them "early", we still end up with more machines produced compared to "my" strategy.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

If you would not continue to completely ignore other features like Apples trackpads and other ones I have repeatedly brought up

Just to close off why I ignored this is because by saying this you've made it clear to me any anyone else watching and paying attention to laptop reviews for a good many years that laptops with excellent trackpads can be found from multiple brands and models. I ignored it because it simply did not warrant addressing. I think the only thing exclusive to MacBooks is the Magsafe charging, but that's not why I choose to talk about it, I did so because you explicitly listed it as a requirement for me to show you a comparable device.

 

You have better energy efficiency, nobody has said otherwise, you have better battery run time but that's relative to compared models and prices etc but in general yes better, you have good chassis with good cooling, you have what many like as a good keyboard (I don't like it all that much but I do think it's "good").

 

There are lots of things MacBooks have but what you cannot do is choose to have them or not to change the subjective value of the product based on user wants and needs, which you can do from other laptop brands. That's what makes MacBooks an objective bad value because as a laptop the cost is higher than on average and you need to make subjective arguments or specific usage requirements to justify the device cost.

 

If it seems I have ignored things you have said it's either because you've made false claims about what I have said and if I address them then you start treating them like I actually did say it so now I'm just differing to quoting it and saying it's a lie. The other times is because it's so obviously wrong I just don't see the point i.e. Trackpad.

 

I'm perfectly happy to say MacBooks are on the top rung of laptops, what I am not "perfectly happy" to say is that is only occupied by MacBooks/Apple like you have been. Comparable devices do not literally have to be the same. If there is something about a device that is unique to it that you want then go for it, I and every else does not and will never need to factor that in to comparing devices overall, not ever. Otherwise let me bring in all the things you cannot get in MacBooks to further make all of this nonsense an even bigger waste of time.

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

then you'd realize I do not deem other laptops not comparable solely based on the absence of Magsafe

If it's not very clear by now I don't care what you deem anything. Your objectivity and rational assessments don't exist and don't align at all with reviews so if I'm going to discount a viewpoint it would be yours.

 

And yes I do realize that, I have realize that the entire time. Again picking a point to illustrate your absurdity. 

 

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

Now you are playing the same game of declaring exclusive features as irrelevant that you always have been playing. It really is showing.

You playing the game declaring features relevant. What if they are not, did you ever think about that?

[Dracarris]

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Just to close off why I ignored this is because by saying this you've made it clear to me any anyone else watching and paying attention to laptop reviews for a good many years that laptops with excellent trackpads can be found from multiple brands and models.

I so far haven't seen a single one that truly matches the one found in Macbooks. Everytime someone comes to me and tells me "but this Windows laptop has a very good one" I go there to try it and conclude it's not even close in haptics, accuracy, multi-touch/gesture capabilities- and accuracy, and last but not least, size. Well in general simply not a comparable user experience overall. I am genuinely curious if this has changed in the meantime, so I'll be delighted to take this point back.

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

You playing the game declaring features relevant. What if they are not, did you ever think about that?

Yes. I wrongly declared Magsafe (and most of "my" other features) relevant, and so did LTT, almost every other major review channel, and all the Macbook owners I so far spoke to. It indeed is a possibility.

Also Apple themselves, by pouring R&D money into the development of said features, even though they aren't relevant for their customers. It is possible. They got their market research all wrong, and in the end their customers magically still appreciate these features.

20 minutes ago, leadeater said:

what I am not "perfectly happy" to say is that is only occupied by MacBooks/Apple like you have been. Comparable devices do not literally have to be the same. If there is something about a device that is unique to it that you want then go for it, I and every else does not and will never need to factor that in to comparing devices overall, not ever. Otherwise let me bring in all the things you cannot get in MacBooks to further make all of this nonsense an even bigger waste of time.

But I never claimed any of these - ofc there are other laptops in the high-end/premium segment. All I claimed was that there are some features/properties and sets/combinations of those, respectively, that are exclusive to Macbooks. I never said that there are no features that are exclusive to other laptop models which you consequently cannot get on a Macbook

[thechinchinsong]

8 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

And those people can buy a used / refurbished Macbook Air instead of buying a brand new Macbook Pro...

If you want to live with the illusion that you have a smart strategy, be my guest. Honestly nobody cares what you buy and for what reason - if you don't make a big deal out of how smart it is and how only Apple products can be so smart, because of quality, yada, yada, yada...

 

Apple certified refurbished products are so nice its like 10-15% discount for almost brand new. I've gotten my older parents 2 m2 macs direct from Apple refurbished and Amazon, which was also Apple certified refurbished and my parents couldn't tell until I told them.

[Dracarris]

5 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

Apple certified refurbished products are so nice its like 10-15% discount for almost brand new. I've gotten my older parents 2 m2 macs direct from Apple refurbished and Amazon, which was also Apple certified refurbished and my parents couldn't tell until I told them.

That's nice, however for a 10-15% discount from the full Apple price (that they list on their website), you could often get a new machine from a retailer/distributor. At least here, their prices are often considerably lower than what Apple quotes, even before any sales or special offers (but they don't offer every exotic configuration).

[leadeater]

14 hours ago, Dracarris said:

I so far haven't seen a single one that truly matches the one found in Macbooks.

 

14 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Everytime someone comes to me and tells me "but this Windows laptop has a very good one" I go there to try it and conclude it's not even close in haptics, accuracy, multi-touch/gesture capabilities- and accuracy, and last but not least, size.

I literally have zero issues with multi-touch gestures or accuracy on my HP EliteBook and it's not even that good of a trackpad. I'm not the only one and not specific to my mentioned EliteBook but re: independent reviews of laptops. Maybe it's only a you issue or whatever subtle subjective thing that makes it feel like that to you. I'm not the one declaring based on my personal tastes that no trackpads are as good as MacBooks am I?

 

When you are the lone voice then either you are wrong or your voice only matters to you, the second one should be the most appropriate of the two but you seem to be more than willing to pull it over to the first because of your wide sweeping "nobody else has it" claims.

 

If you still always prefer the MacBook trackpads then all the power to you, make your choice.

 

So of course you haven't because as stated you never will because you don't have the ability to objectively compare. You cannot find any but over the last good 5 years or more multiple different reviews have evaluated various different brands and models of laptops and have concluded they are comparable to MacBooks. Just because you can't find any or don't want to view them as comparable does not make you correct.

 

What it does make you is putting personal value in aspects at a far higher importance than many others, which again is a completely subjective thing to you.

 

14 hours ago, Dracarris said:

They got their market research all wrong, and in the end their customers magically still appreciate these features.

At no point did I say or imply that Apple is wasting their time or money offering Magsafe nor that people don't or won't appreciate it. What I did say is that in an objective comparison it is not significant and not all that relevant in determining if a device is comparable. What I also said was you demanding it when asking for a comparable device to be shown to you was a pathetic demand because it is.

 

Nobody buys MacBooks just on Magsafe and nobody stopped buying just on Magsafe, it is pretty well strictly a nicety that is not important to have or not have.

 

What you are doing is exhibiting that you are not capable of rational comparisons by doing so and that you are more than willing to discount competing products because their manufacturer/brand made difference design choices.

 

If this is starting to sound repetitious then it's probably a good idea to take note of it, devices do not have to be exactly the same to be comparable, not in features and not even in pure performance because if you are involving different CPU/SoC then they obviously aren't going to be the same they just need to be reasonably close enough.

 

14 hours ago, Dracarris said:

But I never claimed any of these - ofc there are other laptops in the high-end/premium segment. All I claimed was that there are some features/properties and sets/combinations of those, respectively, that are exclusive to Macbooks. I never said that there are no features that are exclusive to other laptop models which you consequently cannot get on a Macbook

Except you use these, as you deem only present on MacBooks to say nothing is as good as or comparable to MacBooks. This whole discussion has been you doing that.

 

In an objective comparison to MacBooks the only true exclusive feature I can think of right now is that Magsafe charging. There might be something else obvious I'm missing but I have very little desire to even think about it much at all at this point.

 

So if you want to keep playing that game then I can get 4G modems on Lenovo laptops and you cannot get that on MacBooks therefore every MacBook is not comparable to Lenovo laptops and worse. Notice how nonsense this is/would be? Is the presence of or lack of presence of a 4G modem in a laptop of much relevance to an overall determination over whether or not two devices are comparable? Is Magsafe?

 

So if you are being honest here then it was neither unfair or inappropriate to say Magsafe is not all that relevant, no matter how much you appreciate it.

 

The entire heart of this issue is you do not like me saying that MacBooks are an objective bad value. Objectively a $2 1L bottle of water is worse value compared to a $1 1L bottle of water. They both offer 1L of water and hydration. The $2 bottle of water might come in a more fancy bottle and if you want that fancy bottle then go for it, it doesn't change the objective fact that it is double the cost. Now I know comparing laptops is vastly more complicated and this is purely an unfair example due to that however it quite clearly narrows in to the objective reasoning and issue, two products offering the same "thing" at different prices therefore objective value is different.

 

14 hours ago, Dracarris said:

All I claimed was that there are some features/properties and sets/combinations of those, respectively, that are exclusive to Macbooks.

Really? Because that certainly is not all you were doing.

  

On 1/12/2024 at 10:45 PM, Dracarris said:

Folks for good reason won't see your laptop competitive or as great compared to their Macbook simply because it has the same perf numbers on the box.

 

A simple example, pretty sure your Asus is not as energy efficient/cool/silent as the "competitive" Macbook or can stay away from the wall comparably long. So it's not competitive after all. For you, maybe yes, since it reaches the same peak perf when connected to an outlet or has the same amount of storage, for others, no.

Second bold, missed this so addressing it now but only as an aside. AMD U and HS CPUs maintain their performance on battery.

 

On 1/13/2024 at 12:44 PM, Dracarris said:

Your evaluation is personal,  not universal, as I guarantee you that there are several points where your Asus takes a hard trade-off against the Macbook (and a lot of Windows laptops prob as well at that price point), and spoiler alert, no, it's neither branding nor visual design of the machine. It's also not macOS.

 

On 1/13/2024 at 1:36 PM, Dracarris said:

Haha, sure. I haven't seen one that features a low enough TDP (or actual power consumption at a given load) at comparable performance of current Mx Macbooks that this would be possible. Quiet, maybe yes, with a chonky enough cooler and chassis, but the TDP aka heat has to go somewhere. The machine itself might stay cool, it's surroundings certainly not.

 

On 1/13/2024 at 1:36 PM, Dracarris said:

I went to great lengths at explaining how they are still offering a unique package or combination of properties that simply cannot be found in the Windows-universe combined in a specific, single model (with Apple Silicon now more than ever), again, while disregarding the OS.

 

Were you or were you not using your subjective opinions to disregard the entire ecosystem of Windows laptops? Very much looked like that to me this whole time. Why are you arguing about this when it's very identifiably all just your opinions and everyone has a right to their opinions, I'm not in any way taking that away from you, never was.

 

So as a recap to something I have already said in this post you have multiple times said something along the lines of "I'm not the one using my subjective opinions to[..]" except your posts have been nothing but filled with doing that. You're discounting any and every Windows laptops solely on your opinions and tastes and then claiming you are not which by the evidence does not check out.

 

You want to tell me I cannot think outside of my personal use case?

[Paul Thexton]

22 hours ago, leadeater said:

That's what makes MacBooks an objective bad value because as a laptop the cost is higher than on average and you need to make subjective arguments or specific usage requirements to justify the device cost.

Justify the cost is the key point here. I’m a macOS user purely because it’s the only OS that doesn’t make me want to throw the damn thing through the window.  That’s entirely a subjective opinion, many others find macOS as infuriating as I find Windows/Linux Desktop (Linux headless is great) and that’s fine.

 

Apple have made some odd choices with macOS over the years but nothing that really inconveniences me….. yet. 
 

I legitimately keep hoping that a GNU/Linux distro will become one that I like (not the same thing as “don’t hate”), but while communities think a viable fix for a specific UX they want to address is to create a new OS fork, I don’t see that happening.

[thechinchinsong]

9 hours ago, Dracarris said:

That's nice, however for a 10-15% discount from the full Apple price (that they list on their website), you could often get a new machine from a retailer/distributor. At least here, their prices are often considerably lower than what Apple quotes, even before any sales or special offers (but they don't offer every exotic configuration).

I've looked around local retailers and their online stores but they have generally the same prices as Apple, unless its during peak discount time periods like black fridya or something else. I just find that the Apple refurb store generally is the most consistently discounted with the most consistent quality. I'm sure there are better deals out there but it takes a lot more time and effort to find imo.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Paul Thexton said:

Justify the cost is the key point here.

Oh I know, I did mention that, probably more than once in this whole mess. It's not difficult to justify the cost either from a technical point or personal preference. What is what I find ignorant from both sides the coin is to say you cannot possibly get a complete and excellent product package from anywhere else other than [insert here]. People will rail on MacBooks because they don't have high-end GPUs and an OS for gaming (a personal value) or how you can upgrade these laptops but not MacBooks etc, as if that's actually common, it's not but what is does allow is replacement of part if failed which is what I think is the only good argument around that. And then similarly you'll get the same repeated stuff from the other side that get rolled out over the last decade and more.

 

What matters most is user experience and satisfaction, it's actually insane to see someone arguing about performance or efficiency/performance per watt then also at the same time say keeping a laptop for an inordinately long time is both a good idea and that the performance over time doesn't really matter etc. That's an aspect that either does matter a lot or not, trying to argue both ways is dumb. It's pretty obvious that a huge majority just don't need ultimate top end performance or battery life or storage capacity etc when all that is required is enough and to be satisfied, more just goes unnoticed or unused.

 

When it comes to Apple products like MacBooks you do have less choice over your product and that impacts both objective and subjective value. If Apple offered a cheaper display option for example a lot of people would choose to spend less and still be personally satisfied. This aspect is a common talking point of many and is truly at the heart of many value comparisons and arguments, whether known and acknowledged or not. You just simply get less freedom and ability to put your own preferences and desires forward when buying a MacBook, this also isn't some huge issue, I mean Apple sells millions of the things, but I'm also not going to ignore or pretend that vastly more not MacBooks are sold every year too.

 

Apple would probably sell more laptops by raw volume if they offered more hardware choice but then that would start to dilute the brand and product image as well as significantly increase operating and manufacturing costs. In the long run that could be worse for the business. Apple doesn't need to change what they are doing overall like that and I would never actually say they should.

 

People that actually need and benefit from [XYZ] will obviously always exist, know your needs, know your preferences, buy what suits you. It's doesn't matter if a critical assessment, review or opinion comes around it doesn't make your choice wrong.

 

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

I've looked around local retailers and their online stores but they have generally the same prices as Apple, unless its during peak discount time periods like black fridya or something else. I just find that the Apple refurb store generally is the most consistently discounted with the most consistent quality. I'm sure there are better deals out there but it takes a lot more time and effort to find imo.

Apple has much tighter pricing controls over their products and offers extremely low wholesale and retailer margins. They actually do not want the prices in a retail stores to be different to Apple.com and Apple Stores and they actively make sure that does not happen. If there is a deal to be had it's probably dead stock with no rebate or return offer from the wholesaler/Apple so they need to move it on. My past job we sold lots of Apple products to schools and margins where just nonexistent compared to HP/Acer etc and even those were not that good.

 

It's why companies like that focus on value add, support agreements, projects with cost to "deploy the devices". Focusing on selling hardware is a quick road to making a loss.

 

One of our employee benefits was being able to buy stuff at cost through work, we could get a better price from Apple.com education prices.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I've looked around local retailers and their online stores but they have generally the same prices as Apple, unless its during peak discount time periods like black fridya or something else. I just find that the Apple refurb store generally is the most consistently discounted with the most consistent quality. I'm sure there are better deals out there but it takes a lot more time and effort to find imo.

That may be a regional thing. Here, the bigger online retailers constantly keep a large selection of common configurations across both MBA and MBP (and other products like ipads, basically everything) in stock that are at least 10% cheaper than what Apple offers. Currently the MBA 13" and 15" models almost cost the same at the biggest retailer for some reason (at equal internal specs).

 

Also, one of the big chains here regularly does a "10% on everything Apple" special deal which has actually come in handy twice for me already. The very same chain currently sells Airpods Pro for 200 instead of 250, so 20% off.

Overall sales and discounts are however smaller and rarer compared to most other brands.

[thechinchinsong]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

That may be a regional thing. Here, the bigger online retailers constantly keep a large selection of common configurations across both MBA and MBP (and other products like ipads, basically everything) in stock that are at least 10% cheaper than what Apple offers. Currently the MBA 13" and 15" models almost cost the same at the biggest retailer for some reason (at equal internal specs).

 

Also, one of the big chains here regularly does a "10% on everything Apple" special deal which has actually come in handy twice for me already. The very same chain currently sells Airpods Pro for 200 instead of 250, so 20% off.

Overall sales and discounts are however smaller and rarer compared to most other brands.

That seems really nice. In my region in the US though, its pretty much MSRP except for sales periods. Maybe Amazon will be 50$ cheaper occasionally, but the Apple certified refurbished are still cheaper. Even better if you can find Apple certified refurbished on Amazon since its like your normal 10-15% discount + 50 or 100$ off. But again, thats hit or miss and usually only on select models. Only place I can find 15% off consistently is from Apple.

[saltycaramel]

Remember kids: there's no such thing as "IT OLEDs", "IT grade OLEDs", "OLEDs for IT", specialized "OLED for IT" production lines, etc., it's just not a terminology used in the industry, "IT OLEDs" is a fabrication, not a thing in the industry. Source: trust me bro.

 

Korean outlets reporting on the industry:

(automatic translation)

 

[Needfuldoer]

16 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Remember kids: there's no such thing as "IT OLEDs", "IT grade OLEDs", "OLEDs for IT", specialized "OLED for IT" production lines, etc., it's just not a terminology used in the industry, "IT OLEDs" is a fabrication, not a thing in the industry. Source: trust me bro.

 

Korean outlets reporting on the industry:

(automatic translation)

 

[snip]

 

Could "for IT" be a botched translation of "for computers"? (As opposed to OLED panels destined for televisions.)

[saltycaramel]

1 minute ago, Needfuldoer said:

Could "for IT" be a botched translation of "for computers"? (As opposed to OLED panels destined for televisions.)

 

The indisputable fact here, no matter how it's called (but I have seen it called that way even in English speaking reports), is that there are specialized, purpose-designed, dedicated R&D, dedicated investments, dedicated specs and design goals, production lines for OLEDs meant for IT products. It's a thing. Hence "IT grade" or "PC grade" OLEDs do exist. They're a well defined "fork" of the overall OLED manufacturing technology. It quacks like a duck, it's a duck, the industry calls it that way, reporters and analysts call it that way. 

 

Some people here tried to gaslight me into thinking that premium OLED displays meant to be used in high-end IT products are always made from the off-cuts of the same mother glass as bargain bin OLED TVs, and that "IT grade", "IT destined" or "PC grade" OLEDs are not a thing, it's just "make believe". (we can debate about terminology, but anyone can judge how "make believe" is having dedicated specialized purpose-built production lines)

 

 

  

On 11/1/2023 at 10:38 AM, leadeater said:

"IT grade" is not a thing, it's make-believe "name" that means nothing.

 

 

[HenrySalayne]

4 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Some people here tried to gaslight me into thinking that premium OLED displays meant to be used in high-end IT products are always made from the off-cuts of the same mother glass as bargain bin OLED TVs, and that "IT grade", "IT destined" or "PC grade" OLEDs are not a thing, it's just "make believe". (we can debate about terminology, but anyone can judge how "make believe" is having dedicated specialized purpose-built production lines)

I think you are gaslighting yourself pretty hard right now:

5 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Korean outlets reporting on the industry:

(automatic translation)

This article has not been written by a human. It doesn't say "for IT", it says "8th generation OLED for IT" - every. single. time. This has "AI generated around a keyword" written all over it.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Remember kids: there's no such thing as "IT OLEDs", "IT grade OLEDs", "OLEDs for IT", specialized "OLED for IT" production lines, etc., it's just not a terminology used in the industry, "IT OLEDs" is a fabrication, not a thing in the industry. Source: trust me bro.

Do you want me to point out how horrid that source is or should we leave it off where the others have?

 

The is no IT Grade OLED, OLED is OLED.

 

 

It's ok to be wrong/make an error.

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

The indisputable fact here, no matter how it's called (but I have seen it called that way even in English speaking reports), is that there are specialized, purpose-designed, dedicated R&D, dedicated investments, dedicated specs and design goals, production lines for OLEDs meant for IT products. It's a thing. Hence "IT grade" or "PC grade" OLEDs do exist. They're a well defined "fork" of the overall OLED manufacturing technology. It quacks like a duck, it's a duck, the industry calls it that way, reporters and analysts call it that way. 

 

The main focus was actually on your insistence that there was special OLED technology that made it suitable for laptops etc and it wasn't until "this IT grade thing" that they could be used for laptops and that is why Apple wasn't using it all the while the actual OLED technology was exactly the same and Samsung Display has been supplying hundreds of millions of OLED displays for laptops and tables for years, but lets ignore that because "not Apple".

 

Yes Samsung Display has dedicated manufacturing for small devices, actually basically their entire business/manufacturing, which started out solely for phones, then as they increased the glass size they could supply tablets and then eventually laptops. Before then and even now OLED monitors come from TV manufacturing and not from Samsung Display (except QD-OLED). QD-OLED, which Samsung now manufacture also is actually a different technology and is on a different manufacturing process and facilities with different display manufacturing generation designation (because it's actually different).

 

Samsung Display refers to and calls this manufacturing and supply for IT devices, they don't mean some special "grade" of OLED, it's their AMOLED display technology they have been making the whole time just getting bigger and slightly better but the same OLED technology. The central point to it not being "different", "special" or "IT grade".

 

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Samsung Display Chief Executive Choi Joo-sun said at the International Meeting on Information Display (IMID) in late August that the company will build an eighth-generation OLED line to make smaller panels for information technology products such as laptops, smartphones and tablets, with an aim to start production in 2024.

 

What these news articles are talking about is the 8th generation of OLED glass manufacturing, now larger in size than 6th generation.

 

 

This giant ass piece of glass, this is for Phones/Tablets/Laptops etc and not for TVs. This is what they cut down.

 

Now just as mention of information clarity this is all specific to Samsung Display. We can talk about LG Display if you want and/or WOLED for large "OLED" TVs which up until QD-OLED was developed weren't AMOLED and were just white OLED light source put through filters to get the other colours, still actually used today in large TVs. Not a technology or basis for anything you have been talking about nor multi-layer OLED which is an AMOLED based technology not WOLED, not sure if it applies to QD-OLED.

 

Different OLED display/panel manufactures do things differently with different focuses, Samsung Display has always been a supplier of OLED displays for Information Technology (IT) devices starting with phones.

 

What I and others objected to was your declaration that Apple wasn't using OLED in their laptops because the OLED technology was insufficient and not good enough with all these drawbacks and now some new "IT grade" OLED is available which Apple "deemed good enough" to put in there devices because it was superior than before, which absolutely is not the case at all.