Trick or M3-treat? - Apple’s pre-Halloween “Scary Fast” virtual event

[HenrySalayne]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

Back in 2010 not since the used ones were a lot different.

"a lot" means a silver keyboard? The 2008 Unibody design was a step up, but the previous models weren't bad either.

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

From there on, yes and it would have been even better.  ut every now and then I treat myself to a new machine. Which is still a ton better from an env standpoint compared to buying 3 new machines like you do.

The pretension and arrogance you are still radiating is exhilarating.

Since you are so much better than me, maybe you could remind me which new machines I bought and when I bought them?

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

What on earth. I still have a MacMini I bought in 2010 and I completely disagree with you. It aged horribly. It was beautiful with snow leopard and got worse and worse with each release of MacOS. Lion was a turd, and Mavericks was another.

Well, it certainly wasn't a rocket anymore, that's for sure. IIRC yes, Mavericks was the last OS on it and it certainly degraded the experience compared to the ones before. Or was it Yosemite? Should've been that. Anyways, the machine started to show its age so that's why I finally switched, but still, it remained perfectly usable as a daily driver up until the point I switched. But again, I don't expect current Macbooks to age as drastically, given that the HW will survive/function that long.

 

Btw, after being too lazy to sell the old MBP I had it tucked away for another 4 years. Finally in 2022 I got around to auctioning away the then 12-year old laptop, for just a bit north of 100$.

49 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

The pretension and arrogance you are still radiating is exhilarating.

Since you are so much better than me, maybe you could remind me which new machines I bought and when I bought them?

radiating exhilarating pretension, ou honhon very much.

I have no clue how many and which new machines you actually bought. However, if you lived by your own credo, then you bought three over the time during which I bought one.

 

May I ask you to tone down a bit, calling me an idiot is way over the line and not okay.

[HenrySalayne]

44 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

I have no clue how many and which new machines you actually bought. However, if you lived by your own credo, then you bought three over the time during which I bought one.

Or not a single one.

Upgrading every few years doesn't mean you buy the newest, shiniest and best stuff you can grab. Upgrading can also mean dodging a defective 2011 Macbook in 2016 and buying a 2013 Windows machine instead (which is still running today besides me not spending the extra cash for Apple quality ).

 

57 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

May I ask you to tone down a bit, calling me an idiot is way over the line and not okay.

I stated a general fact. Now playing the "I'm offended" card three posts later when you have nothing more to add to the discussion feels dishonest at best.

[igormp]

8 hours ago, Paul Thexton said:

I’ve got a 16” M1Max for work. I’m a software engineer so do a lot of code compilation and testing stuff in VMs, when I do go in to the office instead of WFH it’s rare that I have to get the charger out of my bag. The biggest differential to battery life for my typical work day is screen brightness more than anything.

 

That’s just me though. I could well believe that others with the exact same machine may have to charge after only a few hours. 
 

Stating “battery life” as a single figure or ranged metric for any battery powered thing that isn’t single-feature (like a clock or something) is largely meaningless and just causes confusion and arguments.

 

What I do like about my Mac is that the performance characteristics don’t change based on being plugged in to the mains or not.

Mine's a 14" M2 Pro, maybe they were referring to the 16" model, which has a larger battery? 

 

Anyhow, I often need to charge my laptop once I day, I avoid doing any heavy lifting on it otherwise it just slows down to a crawl after all memory is full (which is expected), but it also starts showing some weird behaviors (such as giving up on wifi). Those bugs seem to be more of a M2 thing, since other coworkers with it face similar issues, while the ones with M1s don't.

 

Performance is nice but it's a laptop, so I still prefer to remote into a proper big box to do meaningful compile/run jobs. But yeah, different needs require different tools, I just see my MBP as a glorified dumb terminal with reasonable battery.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

Or not a single one.

Upgrading every few years doesn't mean you buy the newest, shiniest and best stuff you can grab. Upgrading can also mean dodging a defective 2011 Macbook in 2016 and buying a 2013 Windows machine instead (which is still running today besides me not spending the extra cash for Apple quality ).

Cool, so you also make long use out of older hardware, just like me, by buying a 2013 Windows laptop and still using it, well 10yrs after production? what timespan did I exactly specify for how long I plan to use my laptops? So in the end you payed for performance that lasts 10yrs ahead, which makes you according to your own words what?

Or did you upgrade the CPU and GPU on this laptop?

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

stated a general fact. Now playing the "I'm offended" card three posts later when you have nothing more to add to the discussion feels dishonest at best.

not the slightest. I called you out right after you called me an idiot. Your tone in the last reply simply made me add another reminder that this is no way to talk to people.

Also: By labeling it as a „general fact“ and saying „all ppl that do xyz are idiots“ right after I told you „I do xyz“ does not undo the fact that you insulted me. That lame indirection trick does not work.

FYI: Using facepalm emojis inflationatory does not make your posts any better or smarter.

[IkeaGnome]

The butt hurt is real in here on many different sides.

 

Here's a cute kitten to hopefully calm people down.

[Dracarris]

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

How about you stop up talking benefits of MacBooks that are 1) Not actually that great as you want them to be, 2) Not actually exclusive to MacBooks

Since 1) is totally a lost cause as you still fall for the hybris of thinking that you and only you know what most users actually do want and need and everyone else is only a meaningless niche fraction, I‘ll bite for 2) and you may show me a machine that has the following features:

 

a) a CPU that is equivalent to the current M2 Pro and M3 Pro CPUs so basically matching the perf vs power curve, so equivalent power draw at idle and at max load while delivering the same peak performance of the Mx chip

b) an equivalent trackpad to current Macbooks. actually equivalent, not only in the same league regarding tracking accuracy, size, multi touch, gestures, and all the other things

c) a magnetic charging solution that is factory built into the machine (Magsafe equivalent, not wireless charging)

 

You may also simply show me one machine per feature, however that ofc would still not make it a viable Macbook alternative.

Also an acutal alternative would need to share many more properties, but I suggest to start with these three.

 

No downtalking of importance, no „this is irrelevant to most people“ nonsense. Show me an actually equivalent machine and I‘ll shut up.

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Since 1) is totally a lost cause as you still fall for the hybris of thinking that you and only you know what most users actually do want and need and everyone else is only a meaningless niche fraction, I‘ll bite for 2) and you may show me a machine that has the following features:

I never made any direct claims about what most users do, you did and all I did was counter that. Don't start what you don't want to finish 

 

I as an IT worker for a very long time in role managing laptops and supporting users will have seen more laptops than you will ever have and I comment not just on myself but my background history of knowing what a great deal many users of all walks actually do.

 

You presented the idea that this hugely long battery life is oh so important to all mobile workers based on yourself by our own words and admission and all I did was counter a couple of things, that your statements around battery run time are not correct and that other laptops have more than good enough battery run time for that usage.

 

5 hours ago, Dracarris said:

and you may show me a machine that has the following features:

Sure I could but like I said you'll find any reason under the sun to make up a reason for why it's not on par with a MacBook under some completely bogus nonsense. For example magsafe charger LOL. Thanks for reaffirming what an utter waste of time it would have been. Lenovo and Asus are the most easy brands, go look yourself, Dell probably too. I'd say HP, I used them the most, but I'm not sure they have good enough screen options.

 

Just find any laptop with a 7840U CPU for M2/M3 and 7840HS for M2 Pro/M3 Pro, OLED or very good IPS (miniLED too but I doubt there will be one) and a large battery upgrade option at purchase. I already have one in mind I have customized yesterday and it was $1,627.92 and yes without magsafe charger which obviously invalidates as being on par with a MacBook 

 

Genuinely convince me why I should bother first, I have zero reason to believe you'll fairly evaluate any option given to you since you haven't already anyway.

 

And FYI you should be demanding equivalent screen caliber not magsafe. Prove to me more how you'll intentionally pick irrelevant metrics.

 

Are we done? I think we are. What a complete waste of time, learn to handle critique over products you like.

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

What on earth. I still have a MacMini I bought in 2010 and I completely disagree with you. It aged horribly. It was beautiful with snow leopard and got worse and worse with each release of MacOS. Lion was a turd, and Mavericks was another.

Completely agree, when I had to upgrade existing MacBooks and iMacs to 10.7, 10.8 & 10.9 that were released before those OS's and had only 4GB ram and HDDs that ran very badly. Easily noticeable difference in responsiveness compared to 10.6.

 

It was enough of a problem I went around hundreds of iMacs and upgraded the ram, which took me a VERY long time. Well worth it since the complaints reduced significantly.

 

I would have kept them on 10.6 but I could due to device management reasons across all hardware managed and supported OS's for them. Staying on 10.6 simply wasn't possible but those are the pains of a managed network environment not a standalone users.

[Dracarris]

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

Just find any laptop with a 7840U CPU for M2/M3 and 7840HS for M2 Pro/M3 Pro, OLED or very good IPS (miniLED too but I doubt there will be one) and a large battery upgrade option at purchase. I already have one in mind I have customized yesterday and it was $1,627.92 and yes without magsafe charger which obviously invalidates as being on par with a MacBook 

Okay, so first and foremost you chose a CPU that in no way matches the M2 Pro/M3 Pro over the complete power/perf profile like I stated. For example, the 7840HS is equivalent on the performance side with the M2 Pro, but absolutely not on the energy efficiency side. Which is nothing new, there (almost) always have been faster laptop CPUs than Apple Silicon, but when delivering the same peak perf that AS is capable of, they simply draw significantly more power. That already applies for the M2 series and the 7840HS, and is therefore even more true for the M3 series. You may now continue to call improved energy efficieny a marketing stunt by Apple, ignoring that basically the whole chip industry is, for good reason, striving for that, especially on mobile.

 

Then you completely ignore the trackpad, a feature that the user constantly interacts with if he doesn't want to carry an external mouse, then you again declare in a condescending way that Magsafe is irrelevant, even though it is praised left and right in reviews and its temporary removal was mourned across the board. Really, get off your high horse here. Also, again, facepalm emojis don't do any good, quite the opposite.

 

Already now it becomes crystal clear that your claim 2) always was complete nonsense and just plain wrong.

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

And FYI you should be demanding equivalent screen caliber not magsafe. Prove to me more how you'll intentionally pick irrelevant metrics.

Again: I explicitly stated to focus on claim 2), that Macbooks don't have any exclusive features, completely leaving how relevant they might be out of the picture. You utterly failed, because literally your whole line of argumentation is based on declaring things other people appreciate and can only be found in Macbooks irrelevant. You did not even manage to depart from that strategy after I intentionally asked you to.

But sure, lets add equivalent screen to the list. I could've also picked many other things, but you simply again fall back to declaring everything you think is irrelevant as irrelevant for the majority of users, instead of finally having the guts to admit the Macbooks indeed currently have some exclusive features.

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

Are we done? I think we are. What a complete waste of time, learn to handle critique over products you like.

A complete waste of time? Yes. Learn to accept that you are not the tech authority that defines what is generally relevant and what is not that you think you are. Your comments about Magsafe ("bogus nonsense. For example magsafe charger LOL.", are you fucking serious?) just further cemented my impression about this central fallacy that you keep falling for. Learn to handle the fact that some brands bring features to the market that currently no other brand does and that are relevant to a seizable share of users, even though you (for some reason) intensely don't like the former brand.

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

I as an IT worker for a very long time in role managing laptops and supporting users will have seen more laptops than you will ever have and I comment not just on myself but my background history of knowing what a great deal many users of all walks actually do.

And even after all this you still think things like Magsafe or Apples trackpads are irrelevant to the greater share of Macbook users? That's baffling.

What's also baffling is that the multiple-trillion dollar company Apple invests R&D money into developing these things, even though tech authority leadeater decided that these features are irrelevant to the majority of their customers. How could they ignore such valuable advice?

9 hours ago, leadeater said:

You presented the idea that this hugely long battery life is oh so important to all mobile workers based on yourself by our own words and admission and all I did was counter a couple of things, that your statements around battery run time are not correct and that other laptops have more than good enough battery run time for that usage.

I never ever did that. I said this type of battery life is advantageous and a convenience feature like not having to worry about or take a charger with you, e.g., on a weekend trip. Which was even confirmed by hands-on experiences with their Macbooks from multiple other users in this thread, but sure, continue to ignore that.

There's no way of denying that 20h vs 10h of battery life under lab conditions do translate/scale to respective run time differences under real usage scenarios where the former might still satisfy a common requirement while the latter does simply not, and you don't get to decide that this is largely irrelevant and a marketing stunt.

[Forbidden Wafer]

48 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Learn to handle the fact that some brands bring features to the market that currently no other brand does and that are relevant to a seizable share of users, even though you (for some reason) intensely don't like the former brand.

Meh, I bought some 100W USB-C to magnetic charger adapter and it does the same thing. Costed me 5 USD, I believe. No idea why manufacturers don't make it built in, nor why apple removed it from their laptops for many years. I use it on my phone, headphones, ROG Ally and in my laptop.

[HenrySalayne]

11 hours ago, Dracarris said:

FYI: Using facepalm emojis inflationatory does not make your posts any better or smarter.

 

The emoji is actually categorising certain statements made by you. I thought that would be obvious. And I checked - it's not inflationary but it was necessary in each and every case.

 

11 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Cool, so you also make long use out of older hardware, just like me, by buying a 2013 Windows laptop and still using it, well 10yrs after production? what timespan did I exactly specify for how long I plan to use my laptops? So in the end you payed for performance that lasts 10yrs ahead, which makes you according to your own words what?

Or did you upgrade the CPU and GPU on this laptop?

It's actually entertaining how you flap like a fish on dry land to find the shallowest puddle to revive your narrative.

It's not working.

You thought upgrading means "buying a new machine", which was wrong. Now you think "still running" means "still in use as a main machine" which is wrong. I get the feeling you don't want to or can't understand what people are telling you, if it doesn't fit your narrative.

12 hours ago, Dracarris said:

not the slightest. I called you out right after you called me an idiot. Your tone in the last reply simply made me add another reminder that this is no way to talk to people.

Also: By labeling it as a „general fact“ and saying „all ppl that do xyz are idiots“ right after I told you „I do xyz“ does not undo the fact that you insulted me. That lame indirection trick does not work.

I see you still struggle with this. If we take PassMarks year on year average laptop performance, we will find an annual rise of roughly 20% averaged since 2004.

This means - on average - a laptop's performance increase by a factor of 2 within 4 years, by a factor of 3 in 6 years and within 10 years it would reach a factor of 6. Buying a machine with 3 to 6 times the actually required performance to make it last 6 to 10 years is an atrociously poor buying decision.

If you haven't comprehended this by now, it's probably a waste of time to talk about this any longer.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

The emoji is actually categorising certain statements made by you. I thought that would be obvious. And I checked - it's not inflationary but it was necessary in each and every case.

And I checked - it's inflationary and unnecessary in each and every case.

I also categorized several of your statements as facepalm-worthy, yet I managed to address them in a textual and respectful manner instead of opening with a facepalm emoji, which only serves the purpose of showing disrespect for the other party. This is in-line with your general tone here and in other threads, both towards me and other users that disagree with you.

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

It's actually entertaining how you flap like a fish on dry land to find the shallowest puddle to revive your narrative.

It's not working.

You thought upgrading means "buying a new machine", which was wrong. Now you think "still running" means "still in use as a main machine" which is wrong. I get the feeling you don't want to or can't understand what people are telling you, if it doesn't fit your narrative.

Again, absolutely no effing need to draw such a dramatic picture. No clue what you are eluding to here, all I said was that you - just like me - use the same hardware for a rather long timespan and thereby avoid entering a new machine to the life cycle, which is good.

Implying with "still running" that you only use it as a secondary machine (where is your main laptop, did it fall from heaven, did it not have to be manufactured to serve your perf requirements?) is splitting hairs and intentionally misleading me to make "false" statements.

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

I see you still struggle with this. If we take PassMarks year on year average laptop performance, we will find an annual rise of roughly 20% averaged since 2004.

This means - on average - a laptop's performance increase by a factor of 2 within 4 years, by a factor of 3 in 6 years and within 10 years it would reach a factor of 6. Buying a machine with 3 to 6 times the actually required performance to make it last 6 to 10 years is an atrociously poor buying decision.

If you haven't comprehended this by now, it's probably a waste of time to talk about this any longer.

The only one that still struggles is yourself. You honestly take a look at perf evolution, using the year 2004 as a reference, deducting an average and extrapolating it for machines that are released in 2020 and later? Holy shizz, that is some next-level brain gynmastics. All that after I've told you several times that even compared to machines released in 2010, both generational improvements and average perf requirements for everyday tasks slowed down significantly? Maybe I need to hammer this point: In 10 years I won't need a laptop that has 6x the performance of what I require today, is that so hard to comprehend?

Any machine that I buy today is faster than I strictly require, so yes, it will to the job just fine for probably at least 7 more years, without having to break the bank today or buying some stupidly expensive halo configuration. I told you multiple times that this worked jolly fine with a 2010 MBP out of which I got 8 years of daily driver usage with a totally reasonable mid-range configuration. Nothing potato, nothing halo high-end.

[HenrySalayne]

37 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

The only one that still struggles is yourself. You honestly take a look at perf evolution, using the year 2004 as a reference, deducting an average and extrapolating it for machines that are released in 2020 and later? Holy shizz, that is some next-level brain gynmastics. All that after I've told you several times that even compared to machines released in 2010, both generational improvements and average perf requirements for everyday tasks slowed down significantly? Maybe I need to hammer this point: In 10 years I won't need a laptop that has 6x the performance of what I require today, is that so hard to comprehend?

Sorry, my bad.

Let me quickly check the year on year improvements since 2020:

20.96% annually. That's obviously nowhere near the 20% I was talking about.

In the very same time it took you to embarrass yourself once again, you could have checked it for yourself...

[Dracarris]

44 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Sorry, my bad.

Let me quickly check the year on year improvements since 2020:

20.96% annually. That's obviously nowhere near the 20% I was talking about.

In the very same time it took you to embarrass yourself once again, you could have checked it for yourself...

Cool. So now we also ignore the fact that I require nowhere near 20% annual perf improvement or 6x over 10years, and then you almost have a point. Congrats.

Btw over the full decade from 2010 to 2020 performance increased by about 4x with several single-digit years, sometimes not even 5% year-on-year improvement.

Since the data is representative of the average performance across all submitted tests (if I understand it correctly), it also does not mean that an average machine bought in year x has the performance reported, since it includes a lot of older laptops as well. So you can still buy a reasonably fast machine today that is not a halo product but way above average, which then slowly becomes average and then sub-average without getting unsuably slow.

Also I think your last reply lacks some facepalm emojis, maybe you can still edit it.

[HenrySalayne]

19 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Cool. So now we also ignore the fact that I require nowhere near 20% annual perf improvement or 6x over 10years, and then you almost have a point.

Congrats. Since the data is representative of the average performance across all submitted tests (if I understand it correctly), it also does not mean that an average machine bought in year x has the performance reported, since it includes a lot of older laptops as well. So you can still buy a reasonably fast machine today that is not a halo product but way above average, which then slowly becomes average and then sub-average without getting unsuably slow.

Also I think your last reply lacks some facepalm emojis, maybe you can still edit it.

What is your point exactly?

 

3 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

If you haven't comprehended this by now, it's probably a waste of time to talk about this any longer.

 

 

[Dracarris]

5 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

What is your point exactly?

That buying a reasonably priced laptop and keeping it for 7-10years as a daily driver is an absolutely viable strategy and in no way a poor decision as you tried hard to make it.

[IkeaGnome]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Any machine that I buy today is faster than I strictly require, so yes, it will to the job just fine for probably at least 7 more years, without having to break the bank today or buying some stupidly expensive halo configuration. I told you multiple times that this worked jolly fine with a 2010 MBP out of which I got 8 years of daily driver usage with a totally reasonable mid-range configuration. Nothing potato, nothing halo high-end

For someone apparently “arguing for the masses” you sure do use “I” and statements that revolve around yourself and not others a whole lot as “evidence.”

 

As someone who very routinely buys HALO products and has ridiculous upgrade cycles I haven’t been able to justify anything Apple besides an iPhone and an iPad. Prices are just ridiculous for what you get and for little to no upgrade ability. The justification for my iPhone was my wife wanting me to have FaceTime due to how much I’m away from home for work. I had to get an iPad for flight apps. 
 

Any laptop I get doesn’t have to do games. I carry an Ally for that and have a Steam deck for if I don’t want to bring my Ally to work. A laptop I get needs more storage than a base model Apple Laptop and the price difference doesn’t make sense. I have to bring enough raw footage to work to give me 2 weeks worth of editing time in my down time out here at camp. It’s much cheaper to upgrade a normal M.2 as I need than to buy a higher model Apple Laptop. 
 

It’s okay for Apple to be best for you and for an “arguably” significant portion of the population, but that doesn’t mean it will be best for everyone. 

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

It’s okay for Apple to be best for you and for an “arguably” significant portion of the population, but that doesn’t mean it will be best for everyone. 

I never claimed anything else.

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

As someone who very routinely buys HALO products and has ridiculous upgrade cycles I haven’t been able to justify anything Apple besides an iPhone and an iPad. Prices are just ridiculous for what you get and for little to no upgrade ability. The justification for my iPhone was my wife wanting me to have FaceTime due to how much I’m away from home for work. I had to get an iPad for flight apps. 

Well, an iphone and an ipad already covers a significant portion of Apples main product portfolio, and personally I never owned an ipad and probably won't for the forseable future.

As for the Macbook, I don't see how a machine for 2-2.5k$ that serves as a daily driver for several years and still retains decent resell value after that would be hard to justify, but that might just be me. A friend just bought the current 15" MBA with 16GB / 512GB config for just north of 1.5k$ (at a distributor, not directly from Apple) and I really don't see how this is greatly unjustified. The last MBA he had also served him 7-8years but now really starts showing its age.

Correction: Apparently it‘s over 8 years old an he gave it to his ex-wife and she still uses it.

[IkeaGnome]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

I never claimed anything else.

Okay, and now that we've established that, where has anyone else in this conversation said that? 

 

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

 A friend just bought the current 15" MBA with 16GB / 512GB config for just north of 1.5k$ (at a distributor, not directly from Apple) and I really don't see how this is greatly unjustified. The last MBA he had also served him 7-8years but now really starts showing its age.

Correction: Apparently it‘s over 8 years old an he gave it to his ex-wife and she still uses it.

And that's great that that works for them. However, for $1500, there are laptops for other use cases that work better in those specific use cases.

Not everyone cares about battery life. Not everyone cares about touch pad. Not everyone cares about MagSafe. 

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

As for the Macbook, I don't see how a machine for 2-2.5k$ that serves as a daily driver for several years and still retains decent resell value after that would be hard to justify, but that might just be me.

Not everyone has the same use case for a laptop. Why spend $2-$2.5k for a laptop when I can have one with very similar performance and be much more all around for $1500, and that $1500 laptop can have more ram added to it, or more storage added to it as needed?

 

This whole "argument" is you saying your personal experience is more important than other people's personal experience. 

[leadeater]

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Okay, so first and foremost you chose a CPU that in no way matches the M2 Pro/M3 Pro over the complete power/perf profile like I stated. For example, the 7840HS is equivalent on the performance side with the M2 Pro, but absolutely not on the energy efficiency side.

It doesn't does it? It's terrible for you that it's actually very similar. But oh well, factual claims are not your strong point.

 

Sure it does peak higher by a lot for a few seconds however

 

Quote

Power-wise, we saw 6-10W at idle. In our 34dba studio, we saw noise increase to 34.6dba. Under load, the system would peak around 77-79W, then drop down to a sustained range of 44-46W.

https://www.servethehome.com/beelink-ser7-review-a-smaller-and-cheaper-amd-ryzen-7-7840hs-mini-pc/4/

 

Let me check M2 Pro:

https://support.apple.com/en-nz/103253

 

If we just isolate the CPU/SoC the 7840HS TDP is 35W-54W (configurable) and the M2 Pro is 30W Maximum. Are they different? Yes, are they that different, between no and yes if you intentionally raise the TDP to maximum possible which is not always done and you change even change between the TDP modes using power profiles in the OS.

 

Are you done lying to me and to yourself?

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

You may now continue to call improved energy efficieny a marketing stunt by Apple,

I have absolutely never done this, ever. Quit being so pathetic and lying.

 

Any and all respect for you that I did have you managed to entirely erase in this topic. Very well done. You usually have decent things to say and I never mind someone with preferences but I have zero respect for lairs.

 

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

You utterly failed, because literally your whole line of argumentation is based on declaring things other people appreciate and can only be found in Macbooks irrelevant.

If you are going to live and die on Magsafe charging then that is a you problem, not everyone else in the world including MacBook users do. How about you quit speaking for anyone other than yourself?

 

Objectively, and no this is not an incorrect or unfair statement, Magsafe charging is not a critical feature.

 

Products are allowed to be different, companies are allowed to make design choices. What is not required is for different devices to be exactly the same to be comparable and on par with each other.

 

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

("bogus nonsense. For example magsafe charger LOL.", are you fucking serious?)

Very damn serious, extremely. If you are going to declare any comparable device not just because they don't have magsafe charging then you are a total lost cause.

 

I too could reverse the situational comparison and then demand features be required for a MacBook to have to be equivalent to my XYZ device that I know are not relevant and also not typically if at all found on them. You creating a situation on purpose so you can "win" while knowing how not relevant it is is a very good indicator of you as a person. And also at no point did I tell you or that anyone else should not like and apricate Magsafe charging, particularly because this isn't about "you" when comparing devices.

 

I invite you to leave this conversation with me. I have deemed you to be a liar and incapable of rational thought. Maybe in a different topic we can talk about something else.

 

The simple thing is for laptops MacBooks are, like many other products, not a good value and you have still yet to tell me or figure out how that is actually a bad thing. You're treating it as so, very greatly in fact, but you have not once paused to actually think on this.

 

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Learn to handle the fact that some brands bring features to the market that currently no other brand does and that are relevant to a seizable share of users, even though you (for some reason) intensely don't like the former brand.

I have no problem with Apple, their products, or recommending them where I think appropriate. What I have a problem with is you. Apple doesn't need you, your lies and your lack of rational and objective thought to defend them, they will and are doing just fine without you.

[leadeater]

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

There's no way of denying that 20h vs 10h of battery life under lab conditions do translate/scale to respective run time differences under real usage

Excuse me, we have been over this already and now you've only made it worse. Where exactly did you get this 10 hours from and is it laboratory? 

 

I don't use such figures, I never will, because Dell for example claims up to 16 hours on the Dell XPS 13, under conditions not relevant or achievable in reality, just like 20 hours from Apple on MacBook Pros. Battery claims from manufacturers are what they are, I never use them, we have better sources of information for that.

 

On 1/13/2024 at 7:57 AM, Forbidden Wafer said:

6h working, 10h browsing, which is enough for me

Oh right, from here. Not laboratory but an actual user experience claim.

 

May I ask what exactly are you trying to do here? When did I deny there is a difference? I know when I told you that the differences is not as great as you claim and that 20 hours is not achievable ever in any independent review. I know I spoke of MacBook Air's doing around 10-12 hours under general usage and while this is, obviously, more than the above experience talked about and also above many other options what it is not is vastly greater.

 

You are the one that came in and said "get a MacBook Pro", then continued ram the conversation down MBP line and even pushed it over to entirely different class of SoC/CPU, to which I already addressed as costing more and may not even be as an appropriate comparison device than the MacBook Air is. Quite honestly I don't care at this point anyway, you've done nothing other than prove device comparisons are futile.

[Dracarris]

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If we just isolate the CPU/SoC the 7840HS TDP is 35W-54W (configurable) and the M2 Pro is 30W Maximum. Are they different? Yes, are they that different, between no and yes if you intentionally raise the TDP to maximum possible which is not always done and you change even change between the TDP modes using power profiles in the OS.

Even 35W against 30W is a 17% increase and not insignificant. Next, as you said yourself, TDP is a rather meaningless figure to compare two CPUs from different manufacturers as they all define them differently. Also,

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Sure it does peak higher by a lot for a few seconds however

Is anything but irrelevant.

Most importantly, you however still have not shown that the 7840HS has the same power draw while delivering the peak performance of the M2 Pro. Spoiler: It does not. Even when we assume that to be true, it would still not apply in a comparison to the M3 Pro, which is what we can buy from Apple today. Same probably applies for the power consumption at an idle Desktop.

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I have absolutely never done this, ever. Quit being so pathetic and lying.

You have called the 20h of advertised battery life a marketing stunt, which is a direct consequence of the improved energy efficiency. So how about you quit calling me a liar.

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Any and all respect for you that I did have you managed to entirely erase in this topic. Very well done. You usually have decent things to say and I never mind someone with preferences but I have zero respect for lairs.

Oh what a loss. Good thing, it is mutual. I guess I can still consider myself lucky that I got a "decent" rating for my other posts from tech authority leadeater. On the ground on which you call me a liar I could just do the same, as you have twisted multiple statements from me during this statement and claimed things from my mouth that I have never said.

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Very damn serious, extremely. If you are going to declare any comparable device not just because they don't have magsafe charging then you are a total lost cause.

If you would not continue to completely ignore other features like Apples trackpads and other ones I have repeatedly brought up, then you'd realize I do not deem other laptops not comparable solely based on the absence of Magsafe. Your claim simply was "there are no features/properties exclusive to Macbooks" which always was and is completely false. Now you are playing the same game of declaring exclusive features as irrelevant that you always have been playing. It really is showing.

As irrelevant as it may seem to you, Magsafe is appreciated and praised by many, and while not ciitical, it is exclusive to Macbooks (which was the whole point) and influencing the buying decision of people that appreciate this feature.

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I have no problem with Apple, their products, or recommending them where I think appropriate. What I have a problem with is you. Apple doesn't need you, your lies and your lack of rational and objective thought to defend them, they will and are doing just fine without you.

You obviosuly do have a problem. And FYI, the other brands don't need you to downtalk every product that their competitor releases.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

You have called the 20h of advertised battery life a marketing stunt, which is a direct consequence of the improved energy efficiency. So how about you quit calling me a liar.

Lies, quote me.

[HenrySalayne]

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

That buying a reasonably priced laptop and keeping it for 7-10years as a daily driver is an absolutely viable strategy and in no way a poor decision as you tried hard to make it.

It is a viable strategy, it's just not a very smart one. I outlined this in previous posts and everybody will tell you, that you should buy what you need today and not something you might need in 5 years (even annoying-voice Linus from the past knew that).