What do we do now?

[Woddell]

1 minute ago, joaopt said:

 

i just said the "innocent until..." should not be a blank check in cases like this. We all seen what happened 2 years ago, they bullied her to shut up, and he let them, he didn't spoke against it. Public pressure needs to be applied. If it was done 2 years ago maybe it was already investigated, not NOW AFTER THE VIDEO FROM GN

She didn't make accusations 2 years ago. She has now. The only thing GN did was make LMG vulnerable enough for her to feel confident in speaking up. Which, imo, if more a reflection on the toxic community not LMG. 

[joaopt]

2 minutes ago, Woofer21 said:

What does this have anything to do with GN besides starting all of the drama in the first place?

 

come on, it's a miraculous coincidence? she clearly rode on the backlash to bring the old complaints now that the LTT fans wouldn't crush her again like the last time.

And they are investigation now and not 2 years ago for the same reason

[joaopt]

3 minutes ago, Woddell said:

Got a source for those facts? 

 

lol. Are you serious now

[Woofer21]

1 minute ago, joaopt said:

 

come on, it's a miraculous coincidence? she clearly rode on the backlash to bring the old complaints now that the LTT fans wouldn't crush her again like the last time.

That's what i meant, she has intentionally done this now while LTT was already getting dogged on from all angles so her allegations would either get more traction or not just disregarded. 

[Woddell]

2 minutes ago, joaopt said:

 

lol. Are you serious now

so no? 

[Articate]

4 minutes ago, joaopt said:

 

come on, it's a miraculous coincidence? she clearly rode on the backlash to bring the old complaints now that the LTT fans wouldn't crush her again like the last time.

And they are investigation now and not 2 years ago for the same reason

 

I do not want to misjudge what you wrote here. Could you explain what it means to you that she did this now?

[Articate]

1 minute ago, Woddell said:

so no? 

Linus has lied several times in the last few days. If you haven't seen that, I don't want to put that on you. It's readily available, and a good place to start is the latest GN video.

[joaopt]

2 minutes ago, Woofer21 said:

That's what i meant, she has intentionally done this now while LTT was already getting dogged on from all angles so her allegations would either get more traction or not just disregarded. 

 

that's taking sides man.

 

by my view she did it now because it was a moment that she could get her voice out and be heard as she did. Like i said i give the victim the benefit of the doubt not the allege abuser. #Metoo was based on this. If it weren't like this they would all still be laughing

[Woofer21]

1 minute ago, Articate said:

Linus has lied several times in the last few days. If you haven't seen that, then you don't want to see it, and there's nothing anyone can do to convince you of a point contrary to the position you already hold.

Do you have specific examples? genuine question since I haven't been following 100% and not sure what lies I missed.

[Woddell]

1 minute ago, Articate said:

Linus has lied several times in the last few days. If you haven't seen that, I don't want to put that on you. It's readily available, and a good place to start is the latest GN video.

 

GN video highlights problems in LMG's communication and fact-checking processes. I don't see any evidence of Linus directly telling lies. He's gotten a few things wrong (saying BL had received an email because Colton didn't realize his mistake). But he's not intentionally lying to anyone about any of this. 

 

 

[joaopt]

https://old.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15t1mzn/mandatory_meeting_the_after_madisons_departure/

 

f'ing disgusting the way this was handled. Gosip, sex jokes by james.

 

Shame on all of you LMG

[Articate]

Just now, Woofer21 said:

Do you have specific examples? genuine question since I haven't been following 100% and not sure what lies I missed.

Sure. No worries. Let's start with the most egregious lie in this case. He said "while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype". Billet Labs responded to GN when GN asked if that was true, and they said: "No, absolutely not. No, no, no."

 

What Linus had done, was contact Billet Labs after GN's video went up, and said they could pay them back. This was at the same time as Linus was attacking Steve of GN's "journalistic practice" of not "contacting [him]". That's not journalistic practice. Steve did the right thing. That last part might not be considered a lie, but it's part of the gas lighting Linus has done in his textual response here on the forums before today's apology video.

 

It's indicative of the whole situation, so I think it's an example that stands well by itself.

 

[Articate]

4 minutes ago, Woddell said:

 

GN video highlights problems in LMG's communication and fact-checking processes. I don't see any evidence of Linus directly telling lies. He's gotten a few things wrong (saying BL had received an email because Colton didn't realize his mistake). But he's not intentionally lying to anyone about any of this. 

 

 

No, what you miss is that Linus included that mail, as he said in today's video, to show what had happened, that due to an error they hadn't previously gotten the email. You don't email Billet Labs and say "oh, btw, we'll pay you", if you believe that that communication has already happened. Then you would say "I saw that this had come out, and I wanted to follow up on the previous communication, seen below". That's all irrelevant, however, by Linus' own admission in this video. We know what happened. It's terrible.

[jdh009]

17 minutes ago, Woddell said:

She didn't make accusations 2 years ago. She has now. The only thing GN did was make LMG vulnerable enough for her to feel confident in speaking up. Which, imo, if more a reflection on the toxic community not LMG. 

Agree, and hopefully they make the summary (without names) of the independent investigation public with a clear note on how they will change/tackle the points they find and that, if concluded, persons involved will be accountable for their actions, if needed (and desired by the victims) legal, and supported if they where subjected to those actions. 

 

Quote

Linus: Always judge a company based on how they respond to criticism

 

Its time to shine Linus, and hope you and your company come out of this better than it now is going into this turbulent times if all you said was meant with truth.

[joaopt]

if you listen to that meeting about a sex harassment complain and still side with LMG/Linus you guys have a serious problem, that is not normal in any way shape or form.

[Articate]

9 minutes ago, joaopt said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15t1mzn/mandatory_meeting_the_after_madisons_departure/

 

f'ing disgusting the way this was handled. Gosip, sex jokes by james.

 

Shame on all of you LMG

It's things like this that I don't get. "I won't mention names, for what I hope are EXTREMELY OBVIOUS reasons". Is that obvious reason to cover your own ass? Because that's the only way this makes sense. Everyone take notes that if you're ever in a meeting like this, a powerful tool is to simply say "Sorry, I don't follow. What are the obvious reasons?"

 

If it's obvious, you can mention names. It makes it a lot easier to say unequivocal things. In this case, all I hear is Linus defend his company, seemingly gaslighting Madison. But it could be the converse! It could be he's defending her. But I don't know which is which, for extremely obvious reasons.

[Barkermn01]

11 hours ago, exsin said:

Made an account specially for this

 

I'm done with LTT since they completely fobbed me off when they didn't require 3D secure for my CC payment which is mandatory in the country where I live... They pretended it was Shopify's fault whahahaha.

That is Shopify's fault, if you knew anything about how it work the entire payment system is handle by shop pay, shop pay is Shopify's technologies and i have had that exact problem on other sites and reported it to Shopify.

[RangerSavage]

This video was enough, I feel. The promises made, and my inherent trust they'll be followed through on (because if they aren't it'll be obvious) makes it easy for me to relax. I was very concerned that one of my native country content producers I'd watched grow from a mom and pop youtube channel to a corporation had finally kicked the metaphorical bucket for ethical behavior.

 

I was (am, but like above this video assuaged me) very unimpressed with the Billet Labs fiasco, and throwing Gamers Nexus under the bus for giving LTT a well deserved wakeup call. I wish that I could say that Gamers Nexus got the best response they could have hoped for, but it does seem like their name was kept out of the video for better or worse.

 

I hope that going forward into the future LTT will respect their peers in the youtuber tech circles as credible sources of criticism, rather than an enemy. Being the big dog means some of the smaller guys are gonna rightly raise an alarm when something is wrong.

[Woddell]

3 minutes ago, joaopt said:

if you listen to that meeting about a sex harassment complain and still side with LMG/Linus you guys have a serious problem, that is not normal in any way shape or form.

 

"its come to our attention that we need to have a quick chat about a way to handle HR-related feedback and rumors".  

 

Where does it mention sexual harassment? I've listened to it twice and it seems more like Linus is reading out the employee grievance procedure than a specific case?  

 

[joaopt]

1 minute ago, Articate said:

It's things like this that I don't get. "I won't mention names, for what I hope are EXTREMELY OBVIOUS reasons". Is that obvious reason to cover your own ass? Because that's the only way this makes sense. Everyone take notes that if you're ever in a meeting like this, a powerful tool is to simply say "Sorry, I don't follow. What are the obvious reasons?"

 

If it's obvious, you can mention names. It makes it a lot easier to say unequivocal things. In this case, all I hear is Linus defend his company, seemingly gaslighting Madison. But it could be the converse! It could be he's defending her. But I don't know which is which, for extremely obvious reasons.

 

i would say they are all either man child's on that meeting or clearly trolling the victim, not sure what is worst. It's a sad spectacle either way

[Woddell]

2 minutes ago, Articate said:

It's things like this that I don't get. "I won't mention names, for what I hope are EXTREMELY OBVIOUS reasons". Is that obvious reason to cover your own ass? Because that's the only way this makes sense. Everyone take notes that if you're ever in a meeting like this, a powerful tool is to simply say "Sorry, I don't follow. What are the obvious reasons?"

 

If it's obvious, you can mention names. It makes it a lot easier to say unequivocal things. In this case, all I hear is Linus defend his company, seemingly gaslighting Madison. But it could be the converse! It could be he's defending her. But I don't know which is which, for extremely obvious reasons.

 

The obvious reason is they're not allowed to single people out who raise HR concerns. have you ever worked in a company with HR? 

 

[joaopt]

1 minute ago, Woddell said:

 

"its come to our attention that we need to have a quick chat about a way to handle HR-related feedback and rumors".  

 

Where does it mention sexual harassment? I've listened to it twice and it seems more like Linus is reading out the employee grievance procedure than a specific case?  

 

 

the gosip part, the i won't mention names, etc... you must be trolling right now

[Woofer21]

9 minutes ago, Articate said:

Sure. No worries. Let's start with the most egregious lie in this case. He said "while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype". Billet Labs responded to GN when GN asked if that was true, and they said: "No, absolutely not. No, no, no."

 

What Linus had done, was contact Billet Labs after GN's video went up, and said they could pay them back. This was at the same time as Linus was attacking Steve of GN's "journalistic practice" of not "contacting [him]". That's not journalistic practice. Steve did the right thing. That last part might not be considered a lie, but it's part of the gas lighting Linus has done in his textual response here on the forums before today's apology video.

 

It's indicative of the whole situation, so I think it's an example that stands well by itself.

 

See, i don't know if i would necessarily call this a lie. 

Billet asked if they where going to compensate - In a failed email Colton said yes they would, and then Linus sent his email after the GN upload.

So in my eyes, it seems like they did agree to payment, in the sense that billet asked for compensation, and LTT agreed to it. It seems more like Linus not explaining well over Linus lying. 

[Woddell]

Just now, joaopt said:

 

the gosip part, the i won't mention names, etc... you must be trolling right now

If someone raised a HR grievance/concern where they had to have a whole-company meeting (which is what it sounds like) they wouldn't mention any names? That's like standard HR practice. 

[Woofer21]

3 minutes ago, Woddell said:

 

"its come to our attention that we need to have a quick chat about a way to handle HR-related feedback and rumors".  

 

Where does it mention sexual harassment? I've listened to it twice and it seems more like Linus is reading out the employee grievance procedure than a specific case?  

 

People are referring to the "sex" joke made at the end of the clip about dancing on the table. Personally I do not see what is so horrible about the comment.