What do we do now?

[Anon business guy]

Its a miracle this company has survived this long. Its over bloated and the only functioning department is the merchandise one. Their employees walk all over Linus without him realizing. He rarely fires an employee even though they steal stuff from work just to try to be the CEO friend. The employees he has a lot of them feel incompetent and that's the reason they need so many employees. he's invited too many mediocre people into his organization and giving them power. So many employees with titles my god. The number of accountants he has for over 100 people is unacceptable he either works the accountants to death or there will be a huge mistake at some points like the other departments. The CFO saying that they don't need to strive for survival is a huge red flag when running a business! Even if you are really comfortable your company can be destroyed any second especially in media. I wouldn't want to work at a company where the CFO almost cries on camera and trashes the company founder. The CFO (his wife) owns almost 50% of the company so the entire company relies on 1 relationship being stable. Also They're showing off Trello boards like it some major corporate innovation. They think they can fix all the issues in a week by making better Trello boards is laughable. If these things aren't changed this company will not last long. Either losing the favor in the public eye by their structural mistakes showing in their products or a messy divorce that basically destroys the entire company. I believe him that he and his wife have a good relationship. But you can't risk the jobs of over 100 people with a personal relationship.

[John Cutburth]

In the past I have had issue with LTT and the Attitude that has become there company culture.  They are reaching the size that the "Dragon Energy" that @LinusTechbrings to the table that a small company needs to grow and survive is starting to become a liability. 

[mew4ever23]

Linus. Limited-time Pay walling an apology is not appropriate. Making jokes during a serious apology is not appropriate. Monetizing an apology is not appropriate. Plugging your merch and products in development during an apology is not appropriate. It comes off as insincere. And it's really not okay that you clearly need to be told these things.

 

With that said: I am glad that you guys are hitting the E-stop to analyze and attempt to remedy what clearly isn't working well in the organization. Though, once again, it really should not have gotten to this point. I really don't know what to think about the Maddison situation. Hopefully it isn't true, we haven't heard LMG's side of it. Though, I can imagine it would be a horrified denial, which any company would put out. You don't typically get accusations like that from out of nowhere though.

[Upking]

I agree that the LTT store inserts were a little bit out of touch, but c'mon guys! This is LMG, that's the whole point! Btw, dbrand got me laughing at the end.
I feel sorry for Yvonne though, she clearly saw this whole situation coming.
I hope the team get their shit together this week, and while I do agree with linus that the conclusion of the billet video would not have changed, auctioning their prototype was a HUGE mistake.

 

[TMPVC]

1 hour ago, Woofer21 said:

This is at least 5 months old, I have seen the video before but don't have the link to the older post on me right now. 

It is indeed, it was posted on reddit 6 months ago, and then people didn't believe a thing even though it's clearly Linus talking. According to OP, it was a day after she quit.

[lucaslu]

uh why do i feel like this all a big frame, Gamer Nexus wanted views so they targeted ltt and try to find all the mistakes that linus makes, amplifying them. Also i dont feel that the post on X is that real, maybe paid to frame ltt? although i agree that linus is getting a bit outta hand recently

[DroopyBird]

7 minutes ago, WolfMan78 said:

The one that really gets me is the Billet Labs prototype... You had the audacity to auction off a one off part after they were kind and trusting enough to send it to you.. Like in what world or reality do you think that was a viable option??  The communication... lol you cant even work out how to send an email?? lol

 

This isnt going to ruin you guys but im hoping this bloody lip will wake your ass up.

Not excusing what happened to Billet Labs, either in the review or their product. However, seemingly when the prototype was sent to LTT Billet told LTT they could have it. Even if they had a "process" like everyone is calling for, if they were told they owned it when they inventoried it, as far as anyone at LTT was concerned they owned the cooler.

 

Even if they did own it, and billet hadn't asked for it back I'm not sure about the ethical implications of selling a prototype if billet felt there was significant IP there. 

 

Not trying to be pedantic, plenty to be upset about but I like being accurate.

[mdk777]

OK,

 

I had to sign a warning so I could  be ALLOWED to post.

 

Why you ASK?

 

Because I made a post that pointed out the IRONY that Political speech being forbidden was in fact itself.....A very onerous  and very dangerous political position.

 

After  being banned for this critic, this entire thing blew up.

 

I simply could not believe the complete IRONY.  There have been hundreds of hit reviews (that justified or not) made no excuse of attacking and bashing sellers of tech. While this is to be expected by a review site, the lack of self introspection, the complete lack of IRONY in the initial response was incredible.

 

"Hey, it is really rude to critiques the critic.....That's not right, you need to follow rules....We are above reproach...Its our job to reproach others.

It only goes one way...are you insane???"

 

Just like speech is only free for them, and not posters.

 

Yeah, I just can't stop laughing. 

 

 

[treestain]

11 minutes ago, lucaslu said:

uh why do i feel like this all a big frame, Gamer Nexus wanted views so they targeted ltt and try to find all the mistakes that linus makes, amplifying them. Also i dont feel that the post on X is that real, maybe paid to frame ltt? although i agree that linus is getting a bit outta hand recently

Neither side have proof. This is absurd, lol.

Does Linus have proof that Gamers Nexus targeted LTT for the sake of views? No.

Does Madison have proof of her allegations? No.

What happened with the water block situation sucked, it's a bad look.

Rushing your employees suck, it's a bad luck. That's what we know of. And I hope they have learned from their mistakes and try to improve.

[CoolJosh3k]

Wanna help fix the Billit Labs issue?

Pay the cost of creating a replacement prototype and do a new video where you test it properly.
Just paying for the one auctioned off is like when a company’s fine is “just the cost of doing business” and a negligible slap on the wrist that no one notices.

[TheChroNickL]

Glad LMG put out an acutal response, IMHO there are some good things and bad things:

• The fake sponsor segues were in bad taste IMO. I understand that's the LTT brand but this is allegedly a serious video to the community. Same goes for the merch jokes.
• Good to finally get some screen time for Terren, I don't expect that to be the case long term but clearly the CEO needs to comment.
• Yvonne's 0:55-2:44 segment is the best of the video (aside from the sponsorship joke)
• Gary's commitment to open source specific things and logically document datasets is great.
  • I'm not a fan of some things relative to testing being only released on floatplane, thus being pay-walled.
  • I'm not a fan of including "I don't agree with every criticism of my team" in the context of this video. He's not going to give specific examples of what (in his opinion) is agreeable or not so why even bring it up?
• Based on James' segment it sounds like there should be a dedicated QA/QC dept
  • When writers find an error, that video should be stopped from uploading until it is cleared.
  • Who gets the final say in whether a video is ready or not? Apparently it is Nick, the COO and person running Creator Warehouse.
• Ed seems like he's got the ship in order, seems like everyone could learn a couple things from him.
• Nick is deflecting and making jokes is my first impression.
  • COO should not be doing final QA/QC. Especially when his focus is/should be Creator Warehouse.
  • Really didn't need a final product plug in an this instance.
• Terren kills it again IMO.
  • Glad to see he further addresses the Pwnage mouse incident, no excuses just an explanation of what went wrong and what they will fix.
  • I think he did great addressing the "conflicts of interest" GN originally brought up. IMO this has never been a real issue, I think LMG and Linus have always been upfront regarding sponsors or his personal investments. In watching the content I don't believe any opinions have been swayed.
• Colton seems like he needs more staff, bro is running a lot.
• TBH I feel like Luke is here only b/c he's Luke and CTO however
  • Feels like a lot of apologizing for Linus upfront.
  • Infrastructure update is cool but irrelevant in this video context.
• Linus starts out great but then
  • 'Feel sorry for me b/c all the ad hominem attacks'
  • Billet Labs excuses are what they are, it should never have happened. Would be better for Linus to explain how it won't happen again instead of justify why it did.
• Terren closed out well, again aside from the fake sponsor throw.

[JamesSP]

11 hours ago, Buck1972 said:

Ok....  Having watched the apology video and the GN piece.  I am going to say this....

 

Steve @ GN kneecapped his credibility here by not contacting Linus for a comment.  That is journalism 101.  Steve saying he doesn't have too is correct but stupid.  He went to great lengths to get someone to talk on the record about Artesian Builds, but he has the phone number for Linus, and chooses not to get a comment?

 

Steve doing this, makes me think about his biases.  And let's be clear, GN has a bias.  Labs could be a competitor to GN.  This whole thing plays into GNs hand here.

 

Now, the issue with the water block is bad.  LMG should fix it, and they are taking the steps to fix it.  However, that water block was a dumb idea from the get.  

 

Linus can be entirely too glib for his own good sometimes.  Awareness is the key with him and a man who is able to stand up and say this is on me, is ok in my book.

 

For the team at LMG, good on you to improve your processes.

 

 

I totally agree with this point. Even without the 'journalism practices', GN should have gave chance to clarify and mend. If not he is just part of angry mob who can't commnunicate. Also GN claims that he is objective, but lots of points seems like subjective to me.

 

The question is, he said monetization for the original criticism video is off, but is monetization off for the latest video that also include LTT stuff? It seems like it's pulling views none like any previous video. Not to mention surge in YouTube subscribers. I can  sense ulterior motive here. 

 

There are some allegations that needs to be sorted out, and it's LTT's responsibility to do so. But allegations are just that allegations, and we have due process to get to the facts. 

 

Since Canadian Government and British Columbia has very strict laws on worker safety, I wonder why Medison didnt file for complaint to the legal authorities. She can still do so if she felt what she said. This would've been the right way to pursue this, not publish it on Twitter to raise a mob.

 

Linus and LMG is not perfect, but this angry mob is just getting out of hand. They are just angry for the sake of getting angry. If you dont like the content or the creator behind it, unsubscribe and leave. No one is forcing you to watch LTT.

[cco]

dope 

[Lebon14]

Quote

Missing the Madison issue but I guess that was developping when this probably all shot or close to anyway. I'm expecting something about this as well. For about the content of the video: only time will tell if they'll hold to their new standards, improve their existings one and actually pull videos when it's actually relevant. Anyway, press X to doubt *for now*. I'm pretty bad at judging so I'll leave the community decide if the progress is good or not and I'll form my opinion from there. Of course, the Madison debacle as well. Don't forget that one!

This is my comment on the video on YouTube which had 6 thumbs up. Those were my general thoughts on the matter this morning after watching.

 

But this forum never changes, it's still full of trash takes. People absolutely expect the moon and, even if we offered them the moon, it wouldn't be enough. Then, I ask you: why tf are you still here? Nobody's holding you. Go troll somewhere else!

 

Also, I absolutely must remind everybody, like a few people have did already... when the apology was written, shot and edited... Madison still hadn't spoken out. Even if she had, I don't think it would have been good to go back and re-edit the script to include that. What I expect at this point, after reading some garbo take from the thread, since there were some pearls after all, is that it's extremely sensitive. At minimum, I want them to acknowledge the claims. At best, I'd like a guarantee that, after whatever investigation they decide to run, that somebody or multiple somebodies get fired - popular host or not.

 

I have no proof of this but, this was probably a team effort video. Probably a lot of people were writing this video together. So saying that they strained their staff again for probably the single and only video they did that day? Yeah, well... you know where I'm going with this. Review your definition of "crunch".

 

Anyway, my "Press X to doubt" still holds until there are concrete actions and I'd like GN to come back several months later and check some past videos with data to see if anything was wrong.

 

1 hour ago, mew4ever23 said:

Linus. Limited-time Pay walling an apology is not appropriate. Making jokes during a serious apology is not appropriate. Monetizing an apology is not appropriate. Plugging your merch and products in development during an apology is not appropriate. It comes off as insincere. And it's really not okay that you clearly need to be told these things.

In hindsight, I entirely agree with this. These shouldn't have been included *at all*. The joke "words about our sponsor" spots were the most really, really cringe worthy. That's what made me go wtf the most.

 

Also, hearing "d-brand offered to sponsor"... at least they told us that they offered. The way it was worded clearly makes it apparent that they refused the sponsorship. That's good. But it raises another question: WHAT THE FUCK D-BRAND?! Sponsoring an apology video? Are you serious? I really hope that wasn't serious to begin with...

 

My 2¢ once again...

[monkeywraith]

First, Thank you for posting this serious response generally addressing concerns and providing some commentary on taking a break and updating processes. Second, I say again, I continue to like and support LTT/LMG as well as GN.

 

That said, while this is overall a good response, there are problems I want to point out. Foremost, this is a serious situation and response, not the time to mention LTT store, joke about sponsors for the video (twice!), or make a lame 69 joke (I would have loved the reference under other circumstances). You also should have known better than to have monetization on for this video, especially when Steve (GN) specifically called out that it was off for his.

 

This video also feels way to scripted and PR, and there are a couple questionable items that detracted. Calling out volume standardization stood out to me, as this is a trivial part of post that is an expectation of even single person productions (props to ComicDrake, with audio as good as LMG IMO, and even I have done for audiobooks). Talking about questionable sponsor choices "suddenly" doing anything also sounds hyperbolic considering how communities operate; any backlash would obviously be gradual and divided based on opinion.

 

Good video, and thank you for acknowledging your rash initial response. I still expect to support LTT/LMG going forward, but had to call out a couple items that detract from the sincerity and believability of the response.

[NCSGeek]

38 minutes ago, JamesSP said:

I totally agree with this point. Even without the 'journalism practices', GN should have gave chance to clarify and mend. If not he is just part of angry mob who can't commnunicate. Also GN claims that he is objective, but lots of points seems like subjective to me.

 

The question is, he said monetization for the original criticism video is off, but is monetization off for the latest video that also include LTT stuff? It seems like it's pulling views none like any previous video. Not to mention surge in YouTube subscribers. I can  sense ulterior motive here. 

 

There are some allegations that needs to be sorted out, and it's LTT's responsibility to do so. But allegations are just that allegations, and we have due process to get to the facts. 

 

Since Canadian Government and British Columbia has very strict laws on worker safety, I wonder why Medison didnt file for complaint to the legal authorities. She can still do so if she felt what she said. This would've been the right way to pursue this, not publish it on Twitter to raise a mob.

 

Linus and LMG is not perfect, but this angry mob is just getting out of hand. They are just angry for the sake of getting angry. If you dont like the content or the creator behind it, unsubscribe and leave. No one is forcing you to watch LTT.

I really can't see GN just being unabashedly greedy and targeting like that.

 

I don't agree with mob mentality either. This is somewhat blown out of proportion. It's just a matter of LMG rushing things and moving too quickly to uphold certain quality and integrity thresholds. It isn't the end of LTT nor is it bad guy GN making a hit piece for views, money and hookers.

 

Also what allegations? (Unless you mean the Madison stuff. I'm treating that separately) - In the GN video, I remember there being proof for basically everything I can think of. But it has been a day since I watched it so I could be forgetting.

[JamesSP]

15 minutes ago, NCSGeek said:

I really can't see GN just being unabashedly greedy and targeting like that.

 

I don't agree with mob mentality either. This is somewhat blown out of proportion. It's just a matter of LMG rushing things and moving too quickly to uphold certain quality and integrity thresholds. It isn't the end of LTT nor is it bad guy GN making a hit piece for views, money and hookers.

 

Also what allegations? (Unless you mean the Madison stuff. I'm treating that separately) - In the GN video, I remember there being proof for basically everything I can think of. But it has been a day since I watched it so I could be forgetting.

allegations -> Yes, I am talking about the Madison situation.

 

The problem with GN is that he didnt communicate with LMG or Linus. He had every chance to do so, seeing he had both email and phone number. simple dial to Linus could've fixed lots of things, but he chose NOT to do so. If you can't or won't communicate, you are not different then the angry mob. Meanwhile, GN is getting lots of traffic out of this...so...yeah that's my take on this.

[Dragonliger]

42 minutes ago, Lebon14 said:

Also, hearing "d-brand offered to sponsor"... at least they told us that they offered. The way it was worded clearly makes it apparent that they refused the sponsorship. That's good. But it raises another question: WHAT THE FUCK D-BRAND?! Sponsoring an apology video? Are you serious? I really hope that wasn't serious to begin with...

That is literally what Dbrand does lol. Yeah, they may have tried a bit too hard to insert a bit of levity, but it's also what they do. I don't think there was a universe where they just somberly provide a response.

I do think that Linus' part still show him too explosive. He should take some time to chill, he's not at the helm anymore and has to separate the company from himself. I think at this point everytime there is something wrong with the company he takes it personally. Quite certain it comes from a place of care for it, but it is noooooot healthy at all.

 

It does feel like the other adults in the room have a better handle of the situation and it feels like they are trustworthy. I don't think they will talk about the allegations, if there was wrongdoing this is a matter that should be managed by BCs labor board, not by twitter. I feel people have forgot that governmental institutions exist for dealing with exactly does situations.

[NCSGeek]

2 minutes ago, JamesSP said:

allegations -> Yes, I am talking about the Madison situation.

Ok then yeah nevermind on those.

3 minutes ago, JamesSP said:

The problem with GN is that he didnt communicate with LMG or Linus. He had every chance to do so, seeing he had both email and phone number. simple dial to Linus could've fixed lots of things, but he chose NOT to do so. If you can't or won't communicate, you are not different then the angry mob. Meanwhile, GN is getting lots of traffic out of this...so...yeah that's my take on this.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree. I think it would've been nice if GN contacted for content but I don't feel it was necessary.

[Dragonliger]

4 minutes ago, JamesSP said:

allegations -> Yes, I am talking about the Madison situation.

 

The problem with GN is that he didnt communicate with LMG or Linus. He had every chance to do so, seeing he had both email and phone number. simple dial to Linus could've fixed lots of things, but he chose NOT to do so. If you can't or won't communicate, you are not different then the angry mob. Meanwhile, GN is getting lots of traffic out of this...so...yeah that's my take on this.

 

Yup, I agree with the GN thing, their points were valid in a lot of times but literally dealing with it in private first would have been better. They wrote an Expose not gave constructive feedback, there is a difference.

[mikaelus]

21 minutes ago, Dragonliger said:

 

Yup, I agree with the GN thing, their points were valid in a lot of times but literally dealing with it in private first would have been better. They wrote an Expose not gave constructive feedback, there is a difference.

Did Linus deal with Billet Labs in private or did he just YOLO the whole review, didn't even bother to use the block as instructed and then judged it to be expensive trash in front of millions of people?

GN merely pointed out facts that were in the public domain already.

[AdmiralKird]

11 hours ago, Catzzye said:

Man do they have a lot of work cut out for them.

I kinda feel bad for Yvonne as she was saying this for such a long time, years,.. But they just stuck to it. And even X months ago when their tight schedule was brought to light it was kind of brushed aside, at least that's how the community saw it.

 

I'm hopeful things can work out in the long term. They are capable and talented.

Also, those sexist losers need to be thrown out, whoever it is.

The problem is Yvonne's choice won't make them the most money. I wanted them to sacrifice money for quality years ago, but there's a reason McDonald's doesn't sell $20 hamburgers. The changes people are asking them to make would change what they are. Most companies are never willing to do that. They find creative ways to make the problem go away such as rebranding, letting time pass, making short-term expiring changes, etc.

I watched the last video. So what's going to happen with these changes? Ignore that a second; that's the wrong question.

What is going to happen to their income statement? Eventually Terren is going to have to show Linus an increase in viewership and income. What will do that better: Sticking with the new model they're coming up with or the old one? Sigh... it will be the old one. It is more streamlined. It is inevitable.

Listening to the recent video of their future plans, adding all this documentation of this or that and putting it out for the community - is going to tank ROI by double digit percentages. Employees, who are already complaining about the speed, will have to increase work to meet the same production amounts. The teams will be stressed even further for time, perform more, and still try and hit something close to those earlier numbers. There will be an outcry again of employees being overburdened. And lets be real, after a few months, barely anyone is going to check their open source data. It's a nice gesture of transparency but unless you're paying someone to re-perform it and author a digestible response - no one in their right mind will do that work (well) for free.

Anyway, internally someone is going to bring up how little views that data actually gets and it will be seen as an unnecessary burden. This is going to create a hole in the new reforms. It will be partially and quietly rolled back. Those who wanted change will get slowly pushed back over a period of months and years to lessen this new burden on the staff and to return to income statement normalcy. Pressure will mount, monetary results from rollbacks will be shown, more rollbacks will be done, and people will just go with it. And to the people pushing back against the reforms... they'll be right. The only thing that matters is what people believe. We've seen this before, particularly among gamers: The placebo effect will be in full force. Income will go up and things will be just like they are today (mostly).

The reality is if you're on this board, you're in a niche of a niche of a niche. LMG will be fine without earning anything from anyone here or following any viewer suggestions. What matters is how the mass amorphous body of eyeballs out there. Whatever they can do to (a) prevent that from going away and (b) maintain the same level of effort is the long-term path they will choose. They'll debate it, but...

Sadly, I guarantee the cheapest way for a company with a subscriber moat like LMG to make money is to create the belief of value, which is much cheaper to produce than real audited value. Look no further for affirmation of that than Linus' vision of not paying to re-run the Billet tests. It's not like he's going anywhere or has actually been "demoted" or is no longer a top tier cutthroat businessman. He will still be captaining the ship in a year even with someone else's hands on the tiller. They just have to make people believe their data is fine again. And it's not just Linus. I'm sorry, but if that audio recording of the HR stuff is any indication, regardless of the Madison situation veracity, this is a company culture that more than anything just wants uncomfortable stuff to go away. I do believe there is sincerity present in people in LMG, and some people more than others, but sadly it's in the minority or it would have won out a long time ago and we wouldn't be here.

And to anyone who thinks GN should have contacted Linus in private... look at what their first public response to this was and their response to internal problems in private. The only thing GN could do that would have any chance at a possible meaningful impact was to back their words with consequences. If ya think LMG would have attempted a rewrite of a seven, eight figure company over a DM from a competitor/colleague... I don't know what to say.

Edited August 17, 2023 by AdmiralKird
clarity, last two paragraphs

[mikaelus]

I think it's time to move on now. Not because of the apologetic video, as nobody can really trust its sincerity, particularly given Linus' original response. It's damage control - which is understandable, of course.

 

But LTT has suffered enough and Linus personally needed - and received - a pie in his face to show some humility. Reputational damage will last for a while but it's still up to them to improve and shake it off down the road.

 

Financially it's a gigantic hit.

 

Lost Floatplane subs can cost them as much as $300k in revenue per year. But cutting down their publishing schedule will be an even bigger blow.

 

If they reduce output by just one video per week on the main LTT channel, they stand to lose at least $5-10k from Youtube alone, given that they get roughly 2 million views per clip + probably at least the same amount in lost sponsorship spots. So, that's $10-20k times 52 weeks - easily half a million to a million bucks, depending on how specific videos perform (some, as we know, made them tens of thousands of dollars from YT alone).

 

And that is, let me reiterate, just one video less per week. What about other channels? Surely they bring in much less per clip, but it adds up.

 

It's enough, it's not like they poisoned a local water supply, after all.

[Corporate_Sellout]

  

29 minutes ago, Dragonliger said:

I do think that Linus' part still show him too explosive. He should take some time to chill, he's not at the helm anymore and has to separate the company from himself. I think at this point everytime there is something wrong with the company he takes it personally. Quite certain it comes from a place of care for it, but it is noooooot healthy at all.

This, I think, was the key thing that was said in the apology. Linus' ambition and personality really is a double edged sword and it's nice to see that being acknowledged by the executive team. I think Yvone's point of LMG not being in a constant struggle to survive anymore is a really good one to make and I'm confident they'll improve. LMG is privately owned which in a lot of cases makes it more flexible than large publicly traded corporations. I hope Linus, Yvonne, and the other owners are ready to pay because the changes they said they're going to make will cost them. I just hope that they understand that that cost will be worth it.

 

As for the allegations of harassment in the workplace it is despicable that it happened no doubt. I just hope a lot of what was "missed" by HR and leadership when it came to employee safety can be attributed to how fast the company has grown in terms of staff and is not an underlying culture issue within the company though the way Madison wrote about it does make it seem that way imo. I hope with Terren's experience he can make some positive changes on that front. At this point we'll just have to wait and see. To Madison and any former employees that were hurt while working at LMG, I hope they can move on from their negative experiences. I know what it's like working for a toxic company and it stays with you even after you leave, even more so in a very public facing company like LMG. It really does suck and I truly hope they're able to heal from their experiences.

 

As for the future of the company and its employees Linus, I wonder if changing the corporate structure would help at all. I think a change to a worker-owned cooperative would be sweet to see.
 

[M0USER]

Why would you joke in a video so serious? Baffled by their thinking that this was appropriate.