What do we do now?

[RockerBug17]

Not even going to bother reading comments anymore. Community has spoken.

 

Many of you should be ashamed of how you acted. You can't be satisfied with an apology; you have to dictate the terms and feelings of the apology. Like children. It's completely asinine. You can't even stand in a court of law and demand someone apologize exactly as you say. But here, in the court of public opinion there are no rules. There's only base instinct. Disgusting behavior.

[AdmiralKird]

After ~5 years of watching I unsubbed from LTT a few years ago. I found that the once >80% of videos that I was interested in watching had dwindled to <10%. The thumbnails were annoying and nondescript - each one felt like a bad joke mystery box. The whole necessity of them and "growing the business" I heard from Linus on the WAN show had gone too far for my tastes. Speaking of the WAN show, Linus constantly going into diatribes about his own personal life rather than his industry experience left a bad, unnecessary, one-sided creator-oriented forced parasocial taste in my mouth. That, and the WAN show is far better without Linus, as it was some weeks pre-pandemic. I'm sorry, but Linus' presence turns Luke into a yes-man supportive-pumpkin versus when he's been on with James, Emily, Riley, etc and they come off as equal partners. Not having Linus on the show loses a lot of inside industry knowledge, but it gained a lot through staying on topic and a better reporte. I hoped more people would have just unsubbed during the past few years to enact change - but this wasn't and isn't going to happen...

 

One, the bizarre community critique in this 38 page (and growing) thread about "how LTT should phrase its response appropriately" is a big jackie chan dot jpg wtf to me. Guys and Gals, this is their sincerity. If it doesn't jive with you then you can always watch other channels. They're a video production company. If they can't get this satisfactory without your help then maybe they're not worth watching. You can't make sincerity into a phrasing problem. Sometimes its just not there anymore. I'm sure the LTT team feels like their hearts are in the right place and they probably are - right now - but I've seen this happen. It's not going to last...

 

Second: There are not going to be wide sweeping changes. This monster is too big to fail now and as much as people might think and say "the internet remembers," the internet also forgets very fast. You'll get a weekly pause and people will want to do better. But then others will forget. And they will forget. And they will go back to doing the same thing because they gotta pay the bills and hedge against potential losses. There might be some minor lasting production changes, but if you think one BP oil spill is going to stop offshore drilling then you're cray. Linus and Terren will do whatever they can to put this operation back in the green ASAP. There will be some lost growth, and a niche of the gaming community will turn anti-ltt, but ultimately people will go back to clicking the first excited thumbnail for their review of the one plus galaxy pixel phone plus xl donkey matrix tm. The money will come rolling in, growth will happen, and we'll be back here in five years.

[mikaelus]

6 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Not even going to bother reading comments anymore. Community has spoken.

 

Many of you should be ashamed of how you acted. You can't be satisfied with an apology; you have to dictate the terms and feelings of the apology. Like children. It's completely asinine. You can't even stand in a court of law and demand someone apologize exactly as you say. But here, in the court of public opinion there are no rules. There's only base instinct. Disgusting behavior.

There was a time for apology but Linus chose to play victim instead.

[Kravatie1]

oof

 

 

 

Dave from LMG liked the tweets

[Aldonist]

2 minutes ago, Kravatie1 said:

oof

 

 

 

Dave from LMG liked the tweets

You love to see it, so far this is the only new acknowledgement I've seen from anyone at the company, Dave rules, I've always liked him. 

[Articate]

The complete lack of acknowledging Steve and GN's part in pushing LMG to do better, especially with Linus calling out Steve's "journalistic practice", feels deliberate and in poor taste. GN made a very well thought out video with valid criticisms. Linus responded on the forum in just the worst way. GN called you out. Now you tried do right by the accusations. But not mentioning the sole outlet keeping you honest. I'm so disappointed, I don't know what to say.

[illuanonx]

Quote

► GET MERCH: https://lttstore.com ► GET EXCLUSIVE CONTENT ON FLOATPLANE: https://lmg.gg/lttfloatplane ► SPONSORS, AFFILIATES, AND PARTNERS: https://lmg.gg/partners ► EQUIPMENT WE USE TO FILM LTT: https://lmg.gg/LTTEquipment ► OUR WAN PODCAST GEAR: https://lmg.gg/wanset

Why would you advertise in an apology video? Is it just pure greed?

[McGherkin]

50 minutes ago, Andrei Chiffa said:

Ok, for those of us living under a rock, what exactly happened that needed that video?

 

Like jokes have been increasingly tasteless and some takes - rather dumb over the last year or two - but what triggered the release of that video specifically? And why it had no context to it?

 

48 minutes ago, Johhhnyshinsss said:

Can someone explain me to in 'the dumb and shortest way' on what has actually happened 

1. Gamers Nexus posts a video titled 'The Problem with Linus Media Group', which I'd advise you to watch in full, which basically makes two main 'allegations':

  Allegation 1: LMG is rushing its content creation which is creating unforced, obvious errors which should be failing a basic sanity check . GN provides various examples of mistakes, of which there are often multiple per video (mainly benchmark results, graphs and statistics, although there was also a bit on the recent mouse review where LMG left covers on the sliders on the bottom of the mouse making it hard to move around), and essentially diagnoses the issue as the team rushing to hit a tough upload schedule, quoting various members of LMG staff from the recent 'What's it like to work at LMG in 2023?' video who all say they wish they had more time to work on videos.

Allegation 2: LMG recieved a sample of a combined CPU/GPU water block from Billet Labs, which they covered in a video. They lost the GPU the block was supposed to work with, and used an RTX4090 instead, which resulted in poor temps and essentially a 'do not buy, but it's quite well made' recommendation from Linus. They asked for it back and using one of their other prototypes with the 4090 discovered that there would be serious fitment issues from using the wrong GPU which caused the poor temps. They asked for the return of their prototype after the video was released on two seperate occasions, and were assured that it would be, before finding out that the water block had been auctioned for charity at LTX. GN also then shows a clip from the following WAN show when viewers have brought up that the wrong GPU was used, and Linus essentially says 'I wasn't going to spend the 200, 300, 400, 500 dollars in staff time' to retest it with the right GPU and produce an accurate result.

The tone of the GN video was mainly 'you guys are starting a big fancy lab and pitching yourselves as accurate and a rival to GN in that regard but you guys need to do better and you need to make Billet whole' piece.

2. Linus then posts on the LTT forum after a thread is started on the GN video, essentially saying the loss of the water block was a mistake, but it was auctioned, not sold, and we know we had some minor issues but we've fixed them, and I'm really upset that the community has been told to be upset about this and Steve should have got in touch with me before posting. It was a much longer post and it was mostly a non-apology to be honest. Linus also implies that they've got a price from Billet to fix everything, which Billet quickly deny.

3. This causes... tension. GN essentially covers the response with a 'wut', releasing more info from the email chain with billet, clarifying timing and pretty much showing that the scramble from LTT to sort Billet's missing block out came after the release of the initial GN video. Linus gets in touch with Billet again and basically says we'll sort whatever you want, just let us know.

4a. Meanwhile two things are happening. Firstly, LMG is in lockdown mode, with no outward communication to the fans who are by now mostly highly pissed because everything GN said is factual, and Linus essentially hasn't apologised and has doubled down in defense of some of it. At some point Linus is given a talking to by the rest of the company who start putting a plan together to fix this, and they start filming an apology video.

4b. Secondly, Madison (the girl who was hired after her ROG Rig Reboot went viral) spoke up on Twitter/X about her time at LMG. I highly recommend you go find that too - it's disturbing. She was taken on, immediately snowed under with work, called various names and ultimately treated poorly as an employee, backing up GN's allegation that the staff are being rushed to do too much and this is affecting both them and the content they produce. But Madison's allegations go beyond that. She details multiple examples of sexual harassment, being asked about her sexual experiences, being asked to twerk, being forced to operate LMG's Onlyfans despite saying no, but most importantly claiming that she was groped on multiple occasions. She was ultimately so worried about staff coming up behind her that she asked for mirrors to be installed at her desk so she could see behind her (they were installed, but only after other staff got them two months earlier than her), and she ended up cutting her leg open in order to have an excuse to have a day off.  This thread comes out a few hours before....

5. LMG posts their apology video. Well, I say post, it's put on Floatplane as a paid for exclusive. When the community immediately explodes at this, it is then published on Youtube. I highly recommend you find and watch this too. The entire leadership team, from Terren through Yvonne, James, Colton, Gary (head of the lab), Luke and finally Linus all have segments where they describe what will change in their departments. It's a good apology video and the changes announced are severe, with several staff members clearly visibly upset, and reveals Colton did attempt to email Billet earlier and gives some more info on various topics, but it does also come with yet more unforced errors - doxxing the cost of the Billet prototype which they had specifically asked to be anonymous, making some LTTstore/screwdriver/Dbrand references, and Luke making a 69 joke which would have probably landed better if it weren't for the emerging news about Madison. The video makes no mention of the Madison claims as it was filmed before the claims arose.

My personal take: The GN video was a gee'up for LMG to say you need to slow down and do this better, and the claims made were accurate although I do believe that the Billet waterblock probably got forgotten about on a shelf somewhere before Colton found it and put it in the auction, not realising that Billet had been emailing someone else asking for it back. LMG should have just apologised and held their hands up there. However, Linus's response made the situation FAR worse, and even in the most recent video he fails to apologise to GN for essentially lashing out at them for posting valid criticism of LMG's processes etc. The apology video swerves a few things (Linus still seems somewhat unapologetic), and makes yet more mistakes (understandable, personally, given the pressure, aside from the decision to make it FP exclusive which is a classic Linus foot-in-mouth moment) but is ultimately a good response to the need to improve quality at LMG. However, Madison's testimony is severely damaging, and LMG likely won't be commenting on it due to legal reasons. If it's found to be true, sponsors are not going to want to associate themselves with LMG and essentially the whole thing is done.

As for the fans, there are four levels.
1. LMG Bandwagon, GN Steve is doing a hit piece, Madison is making it all up (seriously, some people are terrible here)
2. Neutral but hopeful that LMG will turn things around with a big reset
3. Neutral but unable to see how this can be fixed given the seriousness of the claims.
4. hahahahaha I just want to see Linus burn this is what you get

Thankyou for coming to my TED talk, I hope you got the information you needed, and please now arrange yourself into one of the four fan groups as outlined above.

[bruhhhh69]

20 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

Not even going to bother reading comments anymore. Community has spoken.

 

Many of you should be ashamed of how you acted. You can't be satisfied with an apology; you have to dictate the terms and feelings of the apology. Like children. It's completely asinine. You can't even stand in a court of law and demand someone apologize exactly as you say. But here, in the court of public opinion there are no rules. There's only base instinct. Disgusting behavior.

Somebody has to hold them accountable, and currently this is the only way.

This apology, quite ironically, seems rushed, somewhat careless and though I do have some hope in them improving and coming out better.

I believe some of what was said in the video, and it's fair to say we should wait a bit before judging so harshly like some posters on this thread but for the most part they made a big mistake, and though they apologized for it in the video, it feels like they tried to shrug off a lot of the blame, when they should take accountability and admit they (I don't know if I should swear here so) fricked up. Stop playing the victim, trying to advertise your merch store?!?!? Even as a joke, and don't put the behind the scenes labs stuff which is the main complaint here behind a paywall on floatplane?!? I feel like you might be "fanboy"ing a bit, and I can understand that since I love ltt and it's hard for me to be unbiased right now too.

[Kravatie1]

1 minute ago, Master Link said:

Hold up, the apology video was initially on float plane ONLY?  Did I just read that right, they actually tried to PAYWALL an apology video?

 

Tell me this truly isn't an alternate reality.

 

why does it matter.

 

Linus mentioned why it was done and it was a legit reason

[Red Hardware]

Just now, Master Link said:

Hold up, the apology video was initially on float plane ONLY?  Did I just read that right, they actually tried to PAYWALL an apology video?

 

Tell me this truly isn't an alternate reality.

 

I guess they wanted to see how float plane community would react first OR they rushed the upload and youtube was still processing the video

[Larax22]

32 minutes ago, LogqnTyler said:

I’m just testing to see if “Madison” will make this post automatically deleted

yeah they are not like that

[cornholio509]

I am fully sure that a lot are here to just hate or be on the cancel culture bus looking for the next big name to attack . Heck i think even the ME TOO crowd are joining in . I dont think any apology is going to make them put down their pitchforks .  

 

First of all i think LMG done the right thing by allowing Floatplane subscribers to see it first . They pay direct to LMG to get content and rightly deserve to see and respond to the apology first . IF some in the community cant respect that decision then that's on you . Its says more about you as a person that gets FREE content than it does about LMG apologising to paying customers first .  

 

As for the so called sponsored apology . Really you guys pick on the LTT screwdriver which was done as a joke by nick to lighten the mood . They even explained it was a joke . Yet not one of you picked up on Yvonne's joke about Dbrand . For fuck sake guys if your going to be that much of a hater at least be consistent .  

 

WHat i saw there was genuine human responses to a very stressful situation . The staff fell back to what they knew to lighten the mood not only for us but for themselves so they didnt up been an emotional mess while trying to apologise and not make things worse . Linus sounded croaky as if he was about to mentally break down . Yvonne was a nervous wreck as well as most in the video . so a few jokes about sponsors and merch i feel lightened the mood but did not take away from the seriousness of the mistakes made and them taken ownership of it . 

 

At least it wasnt standard violins playing in the background with what equated to "sorry i made a mistake please forgive me" without taking ownership of anything .

 

As for Linus i think that was a harder more bitter pill to swallow than anything else . This is what happens when you double down because you feel like your been attacked . I hope he is a bit more objective with his practices in the future . I guarantee this has been a humbling experience for him . 

 

As for the conduct of employees in madison's case . I am not sure if anything happened other than madisson feeling overwhelmed and others egos getting in the way . The I.T sector is brutal for workload and timelines . Not to mention people in this sector are usually very EGO driven . I am sure others EGO's were threatened and they took it upon themselves to make her feel the way she did .. However the ME TOO crowd that are creating accusations out of thin air need to leave the conversation or come up with some proof other than their own conspiracies . Again it seems that haters are going to hate no matter what is said . Maddison never mentioned sexual harassment only that others belittled her while she was there . 

 

 I still see the need for linus to address STEVE from gamers nexus and apologise .  GNs video while brutal was factual and based solely off of publicly available statements and videos .While i did get the impression of anger from Steve . However it felt like LMG as a whole was been held accountable for their own mission statement . How could LMG hold manufacturers accountable if they dont take ownership their own misdeeds .   I also believe some of what linus previously wrote about certain staff members making statements on behalf of the company when they shouldn't . These are things i wished they addressed in their video . It would be nice to have a public facing statement to that extent .

 

For my thoughts at the moment i will wait and see . I have been following linus since LTT first took to youtube . I wont be unsubscribing for now . I think jumping on the cancel culture bandwagon isnt acceptable . It sends the wrong message to other creators . FIrst scream fpr an apology then say it was fake and cancel them anyway . So NO i wont be dragged along with those idiots . 

 

We got a proper apology . They have given us a plan to move forward . Lets wait on the results and see if Linus and LMG deserve our time after this . I am perfectly willing to keep watching as long as change is made for the positive . I think the video apology was a good start . 

[TMPVC]

2 minutes ago, Master Link said:

Hold up, the apology video was initially on float plane ONLY?  Did I just read that right, they actually tried to PAYWALL an apology video?

 

Tell me this truly isn't an alternate reality.

 

Yep, on page 2/3/4 or so on this thread you can see screenshots with a statement of Linus regarding it.

[Articate]

1 minute ago, Master Link said:

Hold up, the apology video was initially on float plane ONLY?  Did I just read that right, they actually tried to PAYWALL an apology video?

 

Tell me this truly isn't an alternate reality.

 

Gotta make sure you serve it up to your most loyal fans first!

[Aldonist]

9 hours ago, LinusTech said:

 

The fact that the billet video is still up, even with "corrections" is disgusting. 

[McGherkin]

2 minutes ago, cornholio509 said:

However the ME TOO crowd that are creating accusations out of thin air need to leave the conversation or come up with some proof other than their own conspiracies . Again it seems that haters are going to hate no matter what is said . Maddison never mentioned sexual harassment only that others belittled her while she was there . 

You sir, need to read Madison's twitter thread, stat. Because you are absolutely wrong. But you strike me as the sort who wouldn't believe it anyway.

[Commodore256]

I'm watching the video now with Bulk & Skull's theme.

 

The silence is too awkward and I want to play something stupid to counter act their vocal tonality in the response, I want to have a cerebral reaction to LTT's latest video, not a visceral one. Granted, it makes it goofy, but I still get the sincerity, I just want it dialed down a lot to get the sentiment in a less awkward way.

[cosmonautchan]

Hi, I don't post here but I thought I would attach this statement via The Verge:

 

[McGherkin]

To be clear Linus said he wanted FP viewers to see it first as a thankyou for being supporters of LMG, which to be honest I believe, and when they realised what it meant to everybody else they quickly fixed that mistake after approximately 40 minutes.

[Articate]

Just now, cornholio509 said:

First of all i think LMG done the right thing by allowing Floatplane subscribers to see it first . They pay direct to LMG to get content and rightly deserve to see and respond to the apology first . IF some in the community cant respect that decision then that's on you . Its says more about you as a person that gets FREE content than it does about LMG apologising to paying customers first .  

Is that really how you see it? That paying customers are more entitled to see it? That the errors that could misrepresent products, that end up with them losing a prototype, that does all of that - that's not something everyone's equally privy to? Paying customers first?

 

Just now, cornholio509 said:

 

As for the so called sponsored apology . Really you guys pick on the LTT screwdriver which was done as a joke by nick to lighten the mood . They even explained it was a joke . Yet not one of you picked up on Yvonne's joke about Dbrand . For fuck sake guys if your going to be that much of a hater at least be consistent .  

 

Criticism are only valid if you raise ALL points?

 

Just now, cornholio509 said:

WHat i saw there was genuine human responses to a very stressful situation . The staff fell back to what they knew to lighten the mood not only for us but for themselves so they didnt up been an emotional mess while trying to apologise and not make things worse . Linus sounded croaky as if he was about to mentally break down . Yvonne was a nervous wreck as well as most in the video . so a few jokes about sponsors and merch i feel lightened the mood but did not take away from the seriousness of the mistakes made and them taken ownership of it . 

It absolutely did. Also, this was a totally corporate response. The jokes were added in like an AI deciding "you need the human factor of jokes to not seem to robotic", instead of realizing that this is a grave situation. Also, the jokes weren't jokes. They were joking advertisements for their own products. They were promoting themselves. In a joking way. That's not really a joke. 

 

Just now, cornholio509 said:

At least it wasnt standard violins playing in the background with what equated to "sorry i made a mistake please forgive me" without taking ownership of anything .

 

But it was. They didn't even mention GN. They didn't touch the ethical concerns raised. The new CEO just said "but someone did something with tons of integrity", and expecting that the allegations should be dropped by proxy of having done what's right in another instance.

 

Just now, cornholio509 said:

As for the conduct of employees in madison's case . I am not sure if anything happened other than madisson feeling overwhelmed and others egos getting in the way . The I.T sector is brutal for workload and timelines . Not to mention people in this sector are usually very EGO driven . I am sure others EGO's were threatened and they took it upon themselves to make her feel the way she did .. However the ME TOO crowd that are creating accusations out of thin air need to leave the conversation or come up with some proof other than their [...]

Jesus Christ, I'm gonna stop right here. This is a bad take. You need to be better than this. This isn't okay.

 

[Andrei Chiffa]

6 minutes ago, McGherkin said:

Thankyou for coming to my TED talk, I hope you got the information you needed, and please now arrange yourself into one of the four fan groups as outlined above.

 

It's an excellent summary with some great sense of humor - thanks! 

 

Overall, to me it looks like LTT is going down the way of TechCrunch and Linus is going down the way of Michael Arrington, for exactly the same reasons.

 

I do hope that they'll be able to stop, but I did leave my fair share of comments going in the same direction as GN under Linus' videos over the last year and am not surprised by the allegations from Madison (Max made the same when she quit).

 

Years ago (as in 2015-2016) Linus made a comment on WAN show about the "deplorables" being his core audience. I don't think he is wrong - in that tech is probably a way to avoid them gravitating towards extreme right and manosphere - but that also probably needs to  be articulated to female employees who will attract their attention, as well as fans that graduated to employees from that community; and made excessively clear internally on the HR-policies-that-cannot-be-overridden-by-Linus upfront for everyone joining.

[Guest]

Linus vs Steve UFC 

[Matthew87]

Dear Terren, Yvonne, Gary, @James, Ed, Nick, Colton, @Slick and @LinusTech

 

it is good to see that the community voice was heard and you decided to address issues as your top priority.

 

Yet, this video still leaves a rather bitter taste, and I am not sure the community voice is fully understood.

 

This whole situation is very serious. Sponsorship jokes, mentioning LTT Store, showing a new screwdriver, not blurring out financial details in the e-mail from Billet Labs (it should be common practice even if Billet Labs didn't request it in communication with you), and monetizing the video. Those things shouldn't happen. It isn't time for "you being still you" (as Linus mentioned in a comment to the Floatplane video). It is time to take a step back, set jokes aside, and take a more serious stance.

 

On top of that, releasing the video to Floatplane subscribers (because they deserve that staying by LMG side) before YouTube, and Gary saying that information about testing procedures will be released on Floatplane without mentioning YT, doesn't scream transparency. It looks like you are trying to limit the reach of this event only to your most loyal fans. Especially now, when many people voted with their wallets and canceled FP subscriptions.

 

The message from Linus still seems a little bit too emotional and one-sided. I understand, being called theft and other names isn't nice. Those people shouldn't be doing that and they don't represent every LTT viewer. However, if the current top priority is issues within LMG, it should be time for reflection for each involved person, on what went wrong and how it can be fixed by starting with yourselves - and fixing those problems, before pointing fingers at others for their wrongdoing. The same applies to the LTT community, as constructive feedback (even very negative) is infinitely better than name-calling other people.

But it must be applied to everyone. While Linus was (rightfully) condemning (toxic) critics of LMG, multiple members of the LTT community ("toxic supporters") are attacking people from outside of LMG. Both parties should be condemned for their actions equally - yet only one was.

 

Last but not least: I guess that relationship between Linus/LMG and Steve/Gamers Nexus is probably beyond repair. I understand that both parties have different contexts for what happened in the last days and weeks. Because of that, their reasoning and actions are quite different. (1) And I guess what I am about to write may be read by others in a wrong way, especially if I am writing something wrong due to now knowing the whole picture. However, I hope that if the decision to step back and focus on improving quality was made due to an uproar from the community, then there should be released public acknowledgment of Steve and Gamers Nexus team involvement. If not some apology for the response from Linus about their video - private if not done yet, then public to confirm that everything is A-OK. Video from Gamers Nexus was a trigger for the LTT community to come together and demand better. If it will result in LTT videos being better, then GN is to be thanked for that. There can argues about "methodology", but I think that should start by repairing the relationship bet Linus/LMG and Steve/Gamers Nexus.

 

Best Regards

 

1) It still looks like the report of events provided by Linus, Gamers Nexus and Billet Labs doesn't quite add up - I hope it can be clarified in the coming days.

[John Cutburth]

As for the monetizing an apology I don't see an issues with it. Anytime a newspaper or news channel has to do a retraction to they give that issue away for free or print the retraction in a paper without ads. 
I have never been a LTT fanboy and have had issues with them in the past but always find myself coming back to watch.