What do we do now?

[Francois B.]

I won't say I saw it coming, but for some time, I felt a great distortion or lack of evolution not only in LTT's content but also in all the new online media. 

Only Terren used the term "editorial", but that is the real core of your activity. It's in the title: Linus MEDIA group. 

It seems you all forget you are most of all an editorial and publishing company, and you should better know how classical media are usually edited and published, even newspaper, because those rules are universal. For example, is your credits, you name a "quality control" (that seems to be done by Nick in a larger way than just quality), but no "copyeditor" (Google translated for French "Secrétaire de rédaction") that should only focus on the editorial content. In fact, you should be operating like TVs, with three filter levels: 1/ for tech content accuracy 2/ for global editorial content conformity and 3/ for technical output conformity. And of course, those roles shall not be assumed by those who produce the content.

So, to quickly solve your issue you can either: 1/ integrate someone with a big background in media (and not in tech) for this role of "copyeditor", or 2/ have the executives do deep trainings in edition and publishing bases and practices like classical media executives have.

 

This is my first post on the forum yet I have followed Linus for a very long time on YT. I feel so bad for him rn. What an emotional roller coaster after LTX. It will pass.
With your fabulous team and our support, LMG will grow better and have a huge impact. But be careful, you can still have fun, but you don't play any more.

All the best!

 

[charliebros]

I feel ok with this apology, I would have liked for Linus to apologize to Gamers Nexus, but oh well, you can't ask pears to an apple tree.

 

In regards of Madison, while is a very terrible situation, I honestly believe that it's gonna be either ignored, or simply forgotten (which is awful but it is what it is), and if there's a reaction, they'll simply apologize, cut some heads, do some promises, and there's that. It's all gonna be ok and forgotten in a couple of weeks or months.

[jaskem]

4 hours ago, Woddell said:

 

Thats' my point. If they were happy for LMG to keep it, why did they and GN say that their production has been affected due to them not having it? 

Because they had first waited for LMG to return the prototype. Since they didnt have a lot of money it wasnt just a simple case of: we build a new one regardless. It's more like: we would like to get the prototype back to save on the costs, but we dont know when/if we will get the block back so we are now forced to order a new one.

[LogqnTyler]

35 minutes ago, McGherkin said:

 

1. Gamers Nexus posts a video titled 'The Problem with Linus Media Group', which I'd advise you to watch in full, which basically makes two main 'allegations':

  Allegation 1: LMG is rushing its content creation which is creating unforced, obvious errors which should be failing a basic sanity check . GN provides various examples of mistakes, of which there are often multiple per video (mainly benchmark results, graphs and statistics, although there was also a bit on the recent mouse review where LMG left covers on the sliders on the bottom of the mouse making it hard to move around), and essentially diagnoses the issue as the team rushing to hit a tough upload schedule, quoting various members of LMG staff from the recent 'What's it like to work at LMG in 2023?' video who all say they wish they had more time to work on videos.

Allegation 2: LMG recieved a sample of a combined CPU/GPU water block from Billet Labs, which they covered in a video. They lost the GPU the block was supposed to work with, and used an RTX4090 instead, which resulted in poor temps and essentially a 'do not buy, but it's quite well made' recommendation from Linus. They asked for it back and using one of their other prototypes with the 4090 discovered that there would be serious fitment issues from using the wrong GPU which caused the poor temps. They asked for the return of their prototype after the video was released on two seperate occasions, and were assured that it would be, before finding out that the water block had been auctioned for charity at LTX. GN also then shows a clip from the following WAN show when viewers have brought up that the wrong GPU was used, and Linus essentially says 'I wasn't going to spend the 200, 300, 400, 500 dollars in staff time' to retest it with the right GPU and produce an accurate result.

The tone of the GN video was mainly 'you guys are starting a big fancy lab and pitching yourselves as accurate and a rival to GN in that regard but you guys need to do better and you need to make Billet whole' piece.

2. Linus then posts on the LTT forum after a thread is started on the GN video, essentially saying the loss of the water block was a mistake, but it was auctioned, not sold, and we know we had some minor issues but we've fixed them, and I'm really upset that the community has been told to be upset about this and Steve should have got in touch with me before posting. It was a much longer post and it was mostly a non-apology to be honest. Linus also implies that they've got a price from Billet to fix everything, which Billet quickly deny.

3. This causes... tension. GN essentially covers the response with a 'wut', releasing more info from the email chain with billet, clarifying timing and pretty much showing that the scramble from LTT to sort Billet's missing block out came after the release of the initial GN video. Linus gets in touch with Billet again and basically says we'll sort whatever you want, just let us know.

4a. Meanwhile two things are happening. Firstly, LMG is in lockdown mode, with no outward communication to the fans who are by now mostly highly pissed because everything GN said is factual, and Linus essentially hasn't apologised and has doubled down in defense of some of it. At some point Linus is given a talking to by the rest of the company who start putting a plan together to fix this, and they start filming an apology video.

4b. Secondly, Madison (the girl who was hired after her ROG Rig Reboot went viral) spoke up on Twitter/X about her time at LMG. I highly recommend you go find that too - it's disturbing. She was taken on, immediately snowed under with work, called various names and ultimately treated poorly as an employee, backing up GN's allegation that the staff are being rushed to do too much and this is affecting both them and the content they produce. But Madison's allegations go beyond that. She details multiple examples of sexual harassment, being asked about her sexual experiences, being asked to twerk, being forced to operate LMG's Onlyfans despite saying no, but most importantly claiming that she was groped on multiple occasions. She was ultimately so worried about staff coming up behind her that she asked for mirrors to be installed at her desk so she could see behind her (they were installed, but only after other staff got them two months earlier than her), and she ended up cutting her leg open in order to have an excuse to have a day off.  This thread comes out a few hours before....

5. LMG posts their apology video. Well, I say post, it's put on Floatplane as a paid for exclusive. When the community immediately explodes at this, it is then published on Youtube. I highly recommend you find and watch this too. The entire leadership team, from Terren through Yvonne, James, Colton, Gary (head of the lab), Luke and finally Linus all have segments where they describe what will change in their departments. It's a good apology video and the changes announced are severe, with several staff members clearly visibly upset, and reveals Colton did attempt to email Billet earlier and gives some more info on various topics, but it does also come with yet more unforced errors - doxxing the cost of the Billet prototype which they had specifically asked to be anonymous, making some LTTstore/screwdriver/Dbrand references, and Luke making a 69 joke which would have probably landed better if it weren't for the emerging news about Madison. The video makes no mention of the Madison claims as it was filmed before the claims arose.

My personal take: The GN video was a gee'up for LMG to say you need to slow down and do this better, and the claims made were accurate although I do believe that the Billet waterblock probably got forgotten about on a shelf somewhere before Colton found it and put it in the auction, not realising that Billet had been emailing someone else asking for it back. LMG should have just apologised and held their hands up there. However, Linus's response made the situation FAR worse, and even in the most recent video he fails to apologise to GN for essentially lashing out at them for posting valid criticism of LMG's processes etc. The apology video swerves a few things (Linus still seems somewhat unapologetic), and makes yet more mistakes (understandable, personally, given the pressure, aside from the decision to make it FP exclusive which is a classic Linus foot-in-mouth moment) but is ultimately a good response to the need to improve quality at LMG. However, Madison's testimony is severely damaging, and LMG likely won't be commenting on it due to legal reasons. If it's found to be true, sponsors are not going to want to associate themselves with LMG and essentially the whole thing is done.

As for the fans, there are four levels.
1. LMG Bandwagon, GN Steve is doing a hit piece, Madison is making it all up (seriously, some people are terrible here)
2. Neutral but hopeful that LMG will turn things around with a big reset
3. Neutral but unable to see how this can be fixed given the seriousness of the claims.
4. hahahahaha I just want to see Linus burn this is what you get

Thankyou for coming to my TED talk, I hope you got the information you needed, and please now arrange yourself into one of the four fan groups as outlined above.

Until more information comes out, I’ll be in camp no2. 
Madison’s allegations are, at this pint, just that, allegations. At this point, I do not consider them to be either true or untrue. I hope more information about these instances is produced so that a better decision can be made. It is always necessary to consider both sides of a story, no matter how damming the one side is. These allegations, if even half true, are incredibly awful and LMG will deserve significant criticism for them. 

As for the waterblock issue, I would consider Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” (Wikipedia)

It seems much more likely that it fell three the cracks and was put up for auction by accident than for LMG to have decided to steal it for the chump change they would profit from it compared to their income.

 

The apology video was in bad taste, but I find that to be excusable. 

[Woddell]

2 minutes ago, jaskem said:

Because they had first waited for LMG to return the prototype. Since they didnt have a lot of money it wasnt just a simple case of: we build a new one regardless. It's more like: we would like to get the prototype back to save on the costs, but we dont know when/if we will get the block back so we are now forced to order a new one.

 

They originally offered the prototype to LMG to use in future tests. They didn't need it. 

[BlueMint]

I just wanted to say that I am frankly disappointment in GamersNexus for making it necessary for ltt to stop production of videos, and taking a huge hit for a week off instead of slowly implementing these changes over time (since Tarren took over as ceo). These things take time. I feel GamersNexus has frankly been hypocritical in his recent videos about Linus and LTT.

GamersNexus and Steve make the same, if not worse (along with many other tech channels) mistakes when it comes to technical data. The mistakes made by LTT were simply minor mistakes and I have always believed you should look up multiple sources before buying a product anyway (aka watch multiple tech channels on the product and looking up articles etc.).

I know Ltt and Linus are trying their best and feel they make high quality videos and high quality data. Sure, processes can be improved and Ltt did get a lot of employees, fast but this is nothing that can't be changed over time. I understand that internal process errors can happen and mistakes can be made. I feel saddened that community outrage forced Ltt to stop everything (at much of their own cost) for a week to improve.

I just wanted to say that I feel Steve didn't have to make this a huge public drama, I had faith that Ltt was fixing these errors and mistakes. I trust the lab is doing their best in getting accurate as much as possible. Human error and mistakes happen. I knew that they had hired people to fix many of these errors that were made so it wasn't a big deal, and that their effect takes time. We all know Linus has adhd and makes mistakes from time to time, big whoop. I'm not defending Linus, however I feel GamersNexus has acted inappropriately and over-exaggerated everything. If anything, this whole drama has lost GamersNexus a viewer. Even if Ltt doesn't fix all their errors, most of them haven't been huge errors that require immediate (right now), super public, alterations, although this week will help them (see their latest video).

[jdh009]

15 minutes ago, LogqnTyler said:

Until more information comes out, I’ll be in camp no2. 
Madison’s allegations are, at this pint, just that, allegations. At this point, I do not consider them to be either true or untrue. I hope more information about these instances is produced so that a better decision can be made. It is always necessary to consider both sides of a story, no matter how damming the one side is. These allegations, if even half true, are incredibly awful and LMG will deserve significant criticism for them. 

As for the waterblock issue, I would consider Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” (Wikipedia)

It seems much more likely that it fell three the cracks and was put up for auction by accident than for LMG to have decided to steal it for the chump change they would profit from it compared to their income.

 

The apology video was in bad taste, but I find that to be excusable. 

Agree, LMG/LTT has now the opportunity to show how professional and open they really are and that they indeed want to be the best/precise and trustworthy and be the quality company that they claim in their clips.

 

For the ones that are calling for names: We don't need to know, but LMG needs to check into this and FIX this! A work environment like that is descripted by her should be unacceptable. Both for short and long term survival this is needed (and also just the right thing to do).

 

Quote

Linus Media Group CEO Terren Tong also responded via email, saying he was “shocked at the allegations and the company described” in Reeve’s posts. He went on to note that “as part of this process, beyond an internal review we will also be hiring an outside investigator to look into the allegations and will commit to publish the findings and implementing any corrective actions that may arise because of this.”

Source: The verge

 

The accused is innocent until proven guilty. And yes, this can be said without victim blaming/victim blaming or not taking her story seriously, dismissing it, or when you are supporting her. Trial by media or being deleted (and forcing/bullying others to do the same if they do something else) seems to be becoming more and more of a thing.

 

Best wishes to her and all of the LMG staff who strive to do the best (you probably know yourself if you are one of them if read this).

 

Edit: Sorry for my broken english, its not my first or second language so i kind of still suck at it.

[sethgibbens]

TALK ABOUT THE MADISON ALLEGATIONS!!!

[jdh009]

24 minutes ago, Woddell said:

 

They originally offered the prototype to LMG to use in future tests. They didn't need it. 

Did they? Could you pin me to the source of this information, i think that i missed this in the below video (13:18). 

 

 

Even if true though, keeping a prototype on hands for future tests if something completely different than selling it on an auction and thus losing access to it entirely. The company who made it can still call it back if they need it, travel to it or ask for new photos (ie from a specific angle) and be sure no other (competing) parties can access tot it but due to current events its completely out of their control.

[SahnCH]

Hi there, 

 

I see many strong opinions, "very serious situation", "you should be ashamed" etc.

I believe I could be part of the silent minority who doesn't care about the drama - maybe I'm delusional. 

 

Just created an account to tell you that I'm watching you for 10-15 years, I've spent countless good moment watching your videos, you're bringing me smile on a weekly basis - I'm super grateful for that I truely hope this will continue. Simply thank you, keep up the great work and take care - this too shall pass

 

[jack20591]

The leaders of the company have been very smart in creating this video and not letting Linus lead it and i imagine have had very serious words with him. He needs to be completely disconnected from leadership and just focus on being part of a team, reporting into a manager 

 

Keeps showing he can't be trusted with such a huge company reputation at stake

19 minutes ago, BlueMint said:

I just wanted to say that I am frankly disappointment in GamersNexus for making it necessary for ltt to stop production of videos, and taking a huge hit for a week off instead of slowly implementing these changes over time (since Tarren took over as ceo). These things take time. I feel GamersNexus has frankly been hypocritical in his recent videos about Linus and LTT.

GamersNexus and Steve make the same, if not worse (along with many other tech channels) mistakes when it comes to technical data. The mistakes made by LTT were simply minor mistakes and I have always believed you should look up multiple sources before buying a product anyway (aka watch multiple tech channels on the product and looking up articles etc.).

I know Ltt and Linus are trying their best and feel they make high quality videos and high quality data. Sure, processes can be improved and Ltt did get a lot of employees, fast but this is nothing that can't be changed over time. I understand that internal process errors can happen and mistakes can be made. I feel saddened that community outrage forced Ltt to stop everything (at much of their own cost) for a week to improve.

I just wanted to say that I feel Steve didn't have to make this a huge public drama, I had faith that Ltt was fixing these errors and mistakes. I trust the lab is doing their best in getting accurate as much as possible. Human error and mistakes happen. I knew that they had hired people to fix many of these errors that were made so it wasn't a big deal, and that their effect takes time. We all know Linus has adhd and makes mistakes from time to time, big whoop. I'm not defending Linus, however I feel GamersNexus has acted inappropriately and over-exaggerated everything. If anything, this whole drama has lost GamersNexus a viewer. Even if Ltt doesn't fix all their errors, most of them haven't been huge errors that require immediate (right now), super public, alterations, although this week will help them (see their latest video).

Things like the waterblock and mouse absolutely need to be public knowledge.

Community needs to know how poorly treated the two companies were because clearly LTT would not announce it.

 

And GN in no way forced a gigantic company to stop content.

They've finally decided to listen to their own staff and change the way they operate. "What its like to work for Linus" should have been the point they shut down for a week

[Blademaster91]

25 minutes ago, Woddell said:

 

They originally offered the prototype to LMG to use in future tests. They didn't need it. 

Billet was going to let Linus keep it for testing, until he said it was crap and didn't want to use it again because he claimed it would cost too much to use the block. Billet of course wanted it back if LMG had no plans to use it, and they even joked at least it wasn't going to sit on a shelf after they sold it.

I've seen someone use a car analogy, its like letting someone borrow your car, they go ahead and use it for a while, then say its crap and sell it without telling you even though you asked for it back, then the person says they didn't sell it they auctioned it.

It doesn't matter if it was crap or not because you lost time and money on having to get another one.

[Kravatie1]

7 minutes ago, sethgibbens said:

TALK ABOUT THE MADISON ALLEGATIONS!!!

they have done

 

[jack20591]

23 minutes ago, Woddell said:

 

They originally offered the prototype to LMG to use in future tests. They didn't need it. 

Even very basic knowledge should tell you prototype products are immensely valuable and expensive.

 

A company would absolutely not just give away a prototype version of an unreleased product to a tech website. Ltt could literally just hand it to a rival company who would destroy them..

[Woofer21]

9 minutes ago, sethgibbens said:

TALK ABOUT THE MADISON ALLEGATIONS!!!

Wont happen, to big of a legal issue. Also they already released a statement on the verge:

[naylor2006]

As a part time watcher of the main LTT channel I have absolutely zero context for what I just saw, if someone can explain to me in a sentence what led to that really bizarre video that would be awesome?

 

Has there been some off the scale scandal they needed to apologise for or what?

[Bobby529]

I need someone to help me what went wrong in ltt can someone reply or explain it to me

[Quirkz]

31 minutes ago, Woddell said:

 

They originally offered the prototype to LMG to use in future tests. They didn't need it. 

I suspect it's more like "If we can get our waterblock in more than one video in front of the LTT audience, it's worth every penny of the money we spent on the prototype."

 

That didn't happen, so they were likely hoping to get it in front of *another* tech-tuber with a smaller reach. The prototype was a marketing expense, and they needed it to do it's job.

[Woofer21]

8 minutes ago, naylor2006 said:

As a part time watcher of the main LTT channel I have absolutely zero context for what I just saw, if someone can explain to me in a sentence what led to that really bizarre video that would be awesome?

 

Has there been some off the scale scandal they needed to apologise for or what?

cc @Bobby529

Gamers Nexus posted a 44 minute hit piece calling out LTT and some inaccuracies in their recent videos, their handling of Billet Labs only water block, and some "ethical" concerns they have about the LTT channel.

[Quirkz]

4 minutes ago, naylor2006 said:

As a part time watcher of the main LTT channel I have absolutely zero context for what I just saw, if someone can explain to me in a sentence what led to that really bizarre video that would be awesome?

 

Has there been some off the scale scandal they needed to apologise for or what?

A LTT staff member made an off hand statement that belittled the testing of Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed, implying that labs was much better.

 

GN and HUB got more than a little annoyed (understandable), but it became a bit personal.

GN released a 'hit piece' video detailing LTTs many mistakes in various videos (with facts to back it up), that demonstrates why the testing comparison was unfair and hypocritical. They also then dug in to a lot of dirt with allegations around bias towards certain suppliers, and poor behaviour around certain reviews of some companies products, where they did not test properly, then trashed the products, stating they were terrible.

 

Linus responded unaplogetically.

 

Community goes apeshit, split on both sides in massive war.

 

LTT releases damage control video, but ALSO do discuss real things they're going to do to address the concerns around high video turn around and crunch resulting in factual errors in their reviews.

 

You're up to date.

[Woddell]

15 minutes ago, jdh009 said:

Did they? Could you pin me to the source of this information, i think that i missed this in the below video (13:18). 

 

 

Even if true though, keeping a prototype on hands for future tests if something completely different than selling it on an auction and thus losing access to it entirely. The company who made it can still call it back if they need it, travel to it or ask for new photos (ie from a specific angle) and be sure no other (competing) parties can access tot it but due to current events its completely out of their control.

"We originally said you could keep it because we thought it would be good for you to have it for future builds". 

 

I've said this so many times in this thread, I didn't say it what LMG did was ok, it's not. What I'm highlighting is that If BL really needed it, they wouldn't have offered it to LMG in the first place. 

[dw95_]

Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation.

Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation.

 

 

 

 

Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation.

 

 

 

 

Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation.

 

 

 

 

Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation.

 

 

 

 

Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation. Please address the Madison situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Woddell]

6 minutes ago, Quirkz said:

I suspect it's more like "If we can get our waterblock in more than one video in front of the LTT audience, it's worth every penny of the money we spent on the prototype."

 

That didn't happen, so they were likely hoping to get it in front of *another* tech-tuber with a smaller reach. The prototype was a marketing expense, and they needed it to do it's job.

 

Right, but according to BL and GN it caused a halt/slow down in BL's production process. Which doesn't add up. 

[Woddell]

13 minutes ago, jack20591 said:

Even very basic knowledge should tell you prototype products are immensely valuable and expensive.

 

A company would absolutely not just give away a prototype version of an unreleased product to a tech website. Ltt could literally just hand it to a rival company who would destroy them..

It's literally in their email chain on LTT's video... 

[Blademaster91]

13 minutes ago, jack20591 said:

Even very basic knowledge should tell you prototype products are immensely valuable and expensive.

 

A company would absolutely not just give away a prototype version of an unreleased product to a tech website. Ltt could literally just hand it to a rival company who would destroy them..

This and companies usually have some sort of contract with using products sent in for review, if LMG doesn't do this I'd be surprised because they're a large company now and shouldn't just be selling off review products without permission.

And not just LTT, they could've sold it to a rival company at their auction, it seems like they didn't care the block was a valuable prototype.