What do we do now?

[BigFatTeddy]

10 minutes ago, iLikeBananas said:

While I am fully behind LTT, I also think that it is important that LTT makes up with GamersNexus and Steve specifically. They just did their job and nothing about it was unprofessional. 

Wait? What? Who called out for GN to do that? What? I don't get it. When did GN become the tech-judge of Youtube?

[Woofer21]

13 minutes ago, iLikeBananas said:

While I am fully behind LTT, I also think that it is important that LTT makes up with GamersNexus and Steve specifically. They just did their job and nothing about it was unprofessional. 

What? No? LTT does not owe GN an apology.

[mdk777]

Can't have

5 minutes ago, Woofer21 said:

What? No? LTT does not owe GN an apology.

You can't have it both ways,say they were evil for talking about what you subsequently admit is true.

Hey, no one likes to be FORCED into improving...but in retrospect,  yeah he did them a solid and should be acknowledged. 

THAT IS THE WAY YOU DISARM CRITISM RATHER THAN DODGE,DENY,AND DISTRACT.

[yoc]

2 hours ago, iLikeBananas said:

Emily seems to be doing fine. And haven't heard any complaints from Sarah either. Are you trying to force them to take a stance against LMG?

I don't know what you define as fine but she is pushing for change internally according to her tweet.

 

[ReverendTechie]

54 minutes ago, darki333 said:

Why wasn't GamersNexus/Steve even mentioned, or credited, since he brought the problems to your (collective LMG) and the public's attention??

I guess my counter point would be "If this is about LMG's mistakes, why is giving credit to anyone needed?" If I was in LMG's shoes, I'd want to keep this a out things I can fix (i.e., my production and culture issues) and avoid anything which could devolve the situation into an inter-channel beef. Giving someone credit because they called you out only accomplishes two things.

 

1. It makes the conversation about your being caught rather than the problems you need to address.  If the objective from GN truly is calling Linus out and seeking some form of "justice", then there should be no expectation of kudos from LMG.

2. It incentives others to kick up trouble even if it doesn't exist (or isn't as big of a deal as they want to make it seem). The reality is that LMG is the elephant and GN is... not an ant, but maybe a large dog. Assuming GN's intentions are as pure as newly fallen snow, LMG going out of their way to congratulate or thank GN would signal to less-ethical channels that all they have to do is create controversy at LMG in order to get a huge shout-out.

 

I think not mentioning GN makes a ton of sense in this case. 

[Aashishkebab]

1 hour ago, iLikeBananas said:

While I am fully behind LTT, I also think that it is important that LTT makes up with GamersNexus and Steve specifically. They just did their job and nothing about it was unprofessional. 

"Fully behind LTT"

 

Lol how does such shilling still exist in 2023?

[darki333]

43 minutes ago, ReverendTechie said:

I guess my counter point would be "If this is about LMG's mistakes, why is giving credit to anyone needed?" If I was in LMG's shoes, I'd want to keep this a out things I can fix (i.e., my production and culture issues) and avoid anything which could devolve the situation into an inter-channel beef. Giving someone credit because they called you out only accomplishes two things.

 

1. It makes the conversation about your being caught rather than the problems you need to address.  If the objective from GN truly is calling Linus out and seeking some form of "justice", then there should be no expectation of kudos from LMG.

2. It incentives others to kick up trouble even if it doesn't exist (or isn't as big of a deal as they want to make it seem). The reality is that LMG is the elephant and GN is... not an ant, but maybe a large dog. Assuming GN's intentions are as pure as newly fallen snow, LMG going out of their way to congratulate or thank GN would signal to less-ethical channels that all they have to do is create controversy at LMG in order to get a huge shout-out.

 

I think not mentioning GN makes a ton of sense in this case. 

Hope it is ok, if I give a little opinion into the mix: I do not think it is either (, IF I actually can relate to GNs postition). I would think it is a decision made from a journalistic stand point. On top of that it is valid, neutral, objective criticism; like peers in a scientific community would have (I assume, he sees tech reviews on that level, since all he does is very on point and data driven).

 

Based on that assumption, no, GN wouldnt need any credit, it was just the right thing to do. (Asking LMG for input on it and then publishing might be even better - but then it opens the question, whether this is fair, since he'd use a personal line for contact, which isnt there for other companies, and one should treat them equally... etc. -- no idea what is more right in this situation)

... But I was asking, because it would be the right thing to post sources and giving credit where it is due (from LMGs side); Plus, since the claim is that Linus tackles those kind of drama loaded topics with maximal transparency, the total lack of mentioning GN is striking.

Futhermore the tactic Linus uses to counteract channels/people he deems "bad"/toxic , is the total cutting out of the name(s), which happened during the WAN show where he asserted his view about journalism, and is happening now.

 

Hence my question. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Also think it is great, that they made the insane move, to take that week trying to fix things! Good luck to them. Let's watch and see, if it will get better

 

Little Edit: If this thing could devolve into inter-channel beef, neither deserves to be taken seriously. What a dumb thing to do, if you built your persona, your credibility on being reasonable, based, logical, professional, precise (but also fun)...

[CaptArgo24]

I don't know why it's a crime nowadays to make a mistake and work to learn from it/ do better. You have people pretend they are sorry but then turn around and still do wrong. (cough cough Logan Paul). It's like we pick and choose who can survive cancel culture and who doesn't.

 

It's one thing if LTT just does nothing and carries on as buses as usual. It's another thing if they're actually trying to fix things. The internet is a joke sometimes.

[darki333]

5 minutes ago, CaptArgo24 said:

I don't know why it's a crime nowadays to make a mistake and work to learn from it/ do better. You have people pretend they are sorry but then turn around and still do wrong. (cough cough Logan Paul). It's like we pick and choose who can survive cancel culture and who doesn't.

 

It's one thing if LTT just does nothing and carries on as buses as usual. It's another thing if they're actually trying to fix things. The internet is a joke sometimes.

So the only reasonable thing to do, is wait and see if they follow through, and can fix things , right ?

 

I also find it funny, that the most drama thing about it is the community^^

[also I think it is sus, that Steves/GNs name is hushed up, but whatever ]

[weez]

51 minutes ago, yoc said:

I don't know what you define as fine but she is pushing for change internally according to her tweet.

Do you know what change she is pushing for? No you do not. It could be anything. But you just want to make things out to be the worst. Speculation isn't good. Coming to conclusions without facts isn't good. Stop making something out of nothing. A tweet like this is nothing. There is no real information as to what the change is. 

[yoc]

1 minute ago, weez said:

Do you know what change she is pushing for? No you do not. It could be anything. But you just want to make things out to be the worst. Speculation isn't good. Coming to conclusions without facts isn't good. Stop making something out of nothing. A tweet like this is nothing. There is no real information as to what the change is. 

What are you talking about here, mate? I said that she said that is pushing for change internally and shared proof of it.
You are literally the one jumping to conclusions.

In that note, someone not saying something publicly also doesn't mean that "is fine" neither.

[gargamel314]

I don't think these are LMG Community members behind all these vicious comments. A lot of these accounts are like brand new and have very few posts. (I personally don't have many, but my account has been here for years). Did these people just make LTT forum accounts just to kick them when they're down?

[weez]

3 minutes ago, yoc said:

What are you talking about here, mate? I said that she said that is pushing for change internally and shared proof of it.
You are literally the one jumping to conclusions.

In that note, someone not saying something publicly also doesn't mean that "is fine" neither.

What conclusion did I come to? You are posting that tweet implying that the change she is pushing for is about sexual harassment. You have no clue what change she is pushing for. And posting that tweet doesn't do anything constructive. You are just fanning the flames.

 

Sarcasm:

Emily posted a tweet saying she is pushing for change! Get the gasoline! This is huge!

 

Oh? What change did she say she is pushing for?

 

She didn't but this is HUGE!

 

Oh, so this isn't really news than?

 

But it's a tweet!

[Guy Games]

2 hours ago, Ethnod said:

Not that you guys need the feedback, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in. 

 

For perspective, I've been a viewer of, generally most LLT videos, since I stumbled onto the channel a long ass time ago (unboxing at the fountain days, I actually was researching the PC pre-unboxing cartoon linus, but not by much). 

Since the I've just simply watched most of the videos, unless you are covering something I've zero interest in, and as I consider myself ae tech nerd, that means most videos. 

In saying that, I've been mostly a passive viewer. I rarely comment, I just consume mostly. I've also been a fanboy if I'm honest with myself. All of this stuff going on has had me re-examine my perspective on LTT videos and LMG am I'm realising now that I have been a fanboy, I've not been aggressively defending you online but if has had another effect I'll get into below. 

 

I first found out about the controversy was this video, as I'm not on the forms socially, or regularly (I work about 70ish hours a week plus commuting and I've a young son, plus I'm in my 40's, I just don't have the time), your video was the first I saw of it. Well ok, I saw the GN video come up in my feed but I was supposed to get back to it and only did today. 

After watching your video I saw Phillip DeFranco cover it and today I watched the two GN videos on the topic. 

 

My conclusion is that Gamers Nexus is mostly correct (except for the auctioning off thing, they know what Linus meant, it was not sold for profit but auctioned odd for charity, and it's a fair distinction to want to make, Steve should have been a bit more understanding there) and I can see that you guys recognise that too. 

You are all clearly putting your heads together now to try to remedy the issues going forward, and that is commendable. 

 

Thinking back now, I can see the errors you guys were making but j understand why. 

 

If anyone in LMG cares specifically about my suggestions or requests:

• Any short firm, quick firm video should be reshot or be dubbed before released, there should be no expectations here. As an example, these are ones I listen to while driving, working or doing general chores and do not watch, thry are almost always in the background. In fact some of them I consume on a podcast app. 
• Technical reviews, any graphic card reviews and the like, where there is a graph, unless there is an extremely good reason for it, the same cards and same colours should be used. If there was a testing fail, they should still be on the graph but noted as to what happened. Too many times I've seen one graph with one set of cards, games or set of results to have another similar graph have a difference between the stuff listed. It's jarring and makes it much harder to compare to the fly. As an example, in the (I believe, but I might be mixing up my videos) the AMD cpu review, the comparison graphs changed at one point, of on the cpu's I was using as my grounding perspective so I could compare to my experience was not in some of the graphs and I lost my perspective. 
• Corrections should be editted in, there not possible (or where it will take too much time) the video should be taken down and re-uploaded. A video staying up with an annotated correction should be the exception, should required director level approved. Seems mad, but making it such a high standard will raise overall standards. 
• Replies to controversial topics, public communications from personalities/companies or events should be approved by 2x senior managers from different departments or at a director level. 
• Consider hiring a public relations person, but have it only be part of their job. I don't want to see the WAN show or the general honesty change. Or maybe have someone in the business team deal with all official company responses. Linus is just too emotional and passionate about the company and community. Honestly I think I'd be the same in his shoes. 
• If technical results are off by too much this should be investigated and, if needs be, the video delayed. This will help catch mistakes.
• Allow the writers power to put a video on delay, if they are not happy with the content, they should be able to put the video on hold, pull it from the schedule and spend more time reviewing the content. 

I feel a little bit (but honestly just a tiny bit) disappointed with the errors. Seems, l like you have said, errors due to self imposed pressures and goals. But I feel that parts of the community (a part I squarely place myself in) have let you down by either staying quiet or defending you when errors have presented themselves. I will start posting on the forum on videos that I'm unhappy with or where I see errors. 

 

In saying that, you still have my love, loyalty and respect. Linus and Luke have shown themselves to be men of character, integrity an honesty going all the way back to the start. I've been following the WAN show since the garage (linus chewing on camera ) days and I feel I know you (and I know I don't). I have never missed a WAN show, either live or vod (a tough ask give I live in Ireland ... christ, how many hours is that? ) so I have heard your opinions on do many topics. 

To further that, the LMG staff have, in almost all cases, all shown themselves to be people of character, honestly and integrity and they have done nothing but build on the trust that was already there. 

 

Things that you should know:

• Having someone say that a company (in this case Asus) generally produces good products is not an issue. It's a good statement, it's generally true and just seems to be high horse vs from Steve. I actually think it's a good comment to make from time to time, if some companies are known as generally reliable and trustworthy, maybe other companies will aspire to that? 
• Having relationships with Noctua, Framework and others is not a bad thing in my eyes. Although maybe you should have a internal person not connected to those companies review decisions to ensure some kind of check for bias. 

Re GN, so there is no confusion, I hold them in the highest regard. They are professional, have the highest standards, have integrity and are extremely competent. I agree with most of what they said in both videos on the subject, but some of their points of comments/points of view seem overly harsh and don't give the LMG staff credit for just being caught up in their own orbit, blinded by it. 

 

Lastly

• You need to reduce the number of videos that you publish weekly. I'd like to see a backlog of videos that are ready to go, finished and waiting. At least a couple of weeks worth (I know that will take time) so they can ve reviewed and analysed properly. Obviously time sensitive ones would be excluded (product releases etc) but any project (like the nuts watercooling ones, Linus house videos, crazy fan videos and so on) could easily be part of a good backlog giving staff time to breath and taking pressure off. 
• If a company/organisation/personality is unhappy with a review AND gives details of errors, that video should be reexamined careful by someone (ideally the writer) and then someone else who was not already involved. In my place we call this 4 eyes, a second set of unrelated eyes giving it a fresh look.
• Take more time consuming ways of fixing the videos, less corrections in annotations a d more checking and editing. 
• Don't be afraid to pull a video down, fix it and re-upload it. It's really critical to do the hard thing. I know this has a negative impact on your analytics but even more reason to do it. It's the correct thing to do, it's the hard thing and it will force you to make sure it doesn't happen again. Like Like said, you have to let things fail so you can fix them. Stop the band-aids. 

 

Awesome recommendations, not going to take away from them but... If I remember correctly the vast majority of those recommendations are ones they've already said their going to do in their response video.

[yoc]

Just now, weez said:

What conclusion did I come to? You are posting that tweet implying that the change she is pushing for is about sexual harassment. You have no clue what change she is pushing for. And posting that tweet doesn't do anything constructive. You are just fanning the flames.

 

Sarcasm:

Emily posted a tweet saying she is pushing for change! Get the gasoline! This is huge!

 

Oh? What change did she say she is pushing for?

 

She didn't but this is HUGE!

 

Oh, so this isn't really news than?

 

But it's a tweet!

Well, let me make it clear then, I'm not (necessarily).
That tweet is in response to someone talking about that, tho.



However, it supports my claim that someone not saying something doesn't mean that "everything fine". She literally says that don't want to say something because of the investigation.

[yoc]

10 minutes ago, gargamel314 said:

I don't think these are LMG Community members behind all these vicious comments. A lot of these accounts are like brand new and have very few posts. (I personally don't have many, but my account has been here for years). Did these people just make LTT forum accounts just to kick them when they're down?

Linus choose to address the issue here (initially). IMO is perfectly normal that a lot of people jumped here to share their thoughts.
 

[Woofer21]

16 minutes ago, gargamel314 said:

I don't think these are LMG Community members behind all these vicious comments. A lot of these accounts are like brand new and have very few posts. (I personally don't have many, but my account has been here for years). Did these people just make LTT forum accounts just to kick them when they're down?

I personally have a new account because i haven't needed to comment before these past few days.

[QBerto]

53 pages almost full of "I didn't even was close to make a mistake ever in my life and Linus and LTT suck so hard for doing it" is why Linus responded as he did on the other thread xD, you guys are so ready to judge whatever they put in front of you without put the time and *brain* to hear, read and process what is in front of you... is disgusting and makes impossible to have a real discussion on the matter.... all that without taking account of the retards who made an acc here just to evidence their folic acid deficiency and throw only hate, but meh, that's another matter.

Here's what I have to say

The GN video started with a wrong allegation said by the LTT team and after that pointed a lot of errors and things that if not said on that format, surely LTT team would dismiss until someone else made a video about it, so, in reality, I think the Tech Hagrid dude was right on doing it that way, it was just a real life version of that situation where your thesis advisor points to you all the mistakes you've had done and worked on basically make you to throw a lot of work, but making you put more attention on the future and finally doing a better job on our thesis, I'm sure a lot of us have been there. Back to LTT, nobody can deny we were watching more and more asterisk on every video on every channel, and that's what the majority of us can point since, as GN says, not all ppl can discern errors only with graphs.... that's result on a big ego usually, LTT team, Labs and Linus himself has to understand, what they're trying to do is good, may be necessary, but they're not reinventing the wheel. The answer here is easy, take a breath, swallow the pride and do the right thing. GN made the favor to point why should be this happening, like self imposed schedules and a growing team without proper training, thing that we also known because of the hacked channel arc we saw a couple of months.

That video also had some thing out of place, like allegations about ethics or favoritism, things I think only a non-viewer of ltt can say (and it's fair, GN had no obligation or time for that matter, to view all the LTT videos), but sadly that make the problem worst, but LTT just has to (again) disclose all the information just so we are sure they continue on this not favor any company thing.

Then we have the monoblock thing. First of all, I think it was made by GN a greater drama that actually was. By no means I have intent to say it wasn't LTT fault or that they did not wrong, specially Linus's allegations really (that ones on the wan show), but they actually fail to the transparency they said they have to us, is no excuse, but miscommunication may be the reason, again, fault to grow to big without proper process.....

After that, Linus put his post, a response I never thought he could made, such a defensive and trying to excuse himself for doing clearly wrong. As I said, after reading a lot of responses, make sense, but man, @LinusTech, WTF, we all know this is not your first day on the internet, you know ppl will ALWAYS take the worst and will make it bigger that what actually is, and someone like you should tried so much hard to stay in the cool, not because you can't be human, but because who you are, I'm sure you know it. Some ppl are being just dramatic, but most of us are just being harsh because that's what you have asked for, I can't allow you to be so jerk and no take the hit when, for example, you refused on a intensive way to make a review of that case on that recent convention because the didn't do the right thing (return money to early supporters getting nothing), or dropping Anker as a sponsor because the user data thing. Both this were not the right thing, you did the right thing. Now the light are pointing to you, do it again, do the right thing here too, sure you can.

With all that said, I think the video is the correct move, at least in words, is what the first answer had to be, for the most part, they really have to explain what happened with the monoblock and well, we'll see what of that really will happen, on the Labs side, on the production side, on the release video schedule, on the quality, the data presented, all with still being you, I really hope a video explaining the conclusions you have made on this days, honestly, take more if you need, potentially, this could be a great turn for LTT and most of us will wait to see what you have for us.

Now really, forum guys, don't be dramatic, you're being worst than Linus, saying the apology was paid (it was an hour, wtf AN HOUR, most of you only wanted drama and surely if not that you'll find another thing to whine about like you did xD, like the "jokes", the thing LTT start doing, being able to do it in this instance is a good thing, it was not forced, it was not overdo, it was ok. The script? every video you see has a script, it is to not forget anything and whining about it is just showing how little you know about this and a reason to keep your mouth shout. Linus doing forcing his wife do the video? what? that's just being stupid, LTT is a lot more than Linus since a few years and that's why everyone appearing on the video is a good thing, the bad side of that, is that only shows they need a better organization (wtf Colton has like 8 head roles? that's why they can't keep track of when he was fired or not), but they said they will improve, that has to be seen yet.

Now, for the last, the Madison thing.... oh boy everything I will say here will be unpopular but whatever. First, c'mon ppl, stop coming here and let your fingers just puke allegations, that is worst than Linus's post, really, this was not addressed on the video because that surely would be pretty stupid but more importantly because THE VIDEO WAS SHOOT BEFORE the Madison's twitter thread, then, well, was demonstrated by tech Hagrid (first by LTT staff on the video he references) how they never stop working, the workload they have is insane, that's not for everyone (honestly that's not for most ppl) and clearly was not for her, being on a environment so hostile, moving so fast will have repercussions on any not suitable, if you put that plus the kind of relationship we,ve all seen on the staff, it creates a big room for misinterpreted situations, on both sides, when you have that kind of stress, you'll see everything on different eyes, and if the other part doesn't care to see that, will only create a horrible vicious circle that will result on what we "know" today. I'm not saying she's wrong, I just saying on this cases, you have to be very analytical before put yourself on any side, and preferably you should never take a side, because yes, she is a victim and yes, someone(s) at LTT is at fault, but there was a mistake on both sides at one point, and most probably, we will never know the real story. That said, this is not a topic that should be discussed here, on any video, this is a bigger than any of us matter, even bigger that LTT and should be adresed for the right instances, asking and demanding for it here is a proof that you are here only for morbid curiosity.

For me, well, I liked the content on LTT, even the stupid fun one, is ENTERTAINING (that's why is called that way), and the serious one, was only one of all the opinions I consulted, if they manage to change the thing they said will change, I'm here, it is a good 20 minutes of my day, if not, well, there's a lot of thing to watch on YT, to do in another place so no problem, no one has to be so dense to not get that.

But, LTT team, you have to know

     - You have failed on your transparency oath to us. Nobody asked for it, but you said it a lot. Has to be constructed again.

     - You were giving us misinformation, you have to tell us how this will not happen so systematically.

     - You have to show us your relationship with GN has not broken because of this (this has to be shown both sides tho).

     - You have to clear the Madison thing, not necessarily on a public way, not to satisfy us, but because is the right thing to do.

I will be here watching you guys, keep up, those 53 forum pages and this walltext will be a long past memory some day

[Ethnod]

3 hours ago, darki333 said:

Im pretty sure it wont get answered, but it is pretty much my only chance to get a straight answer:

 

Why wasn't GamersNexus/Steve even mentioned, or credited, since he brought the problems to your (collective LMG) and the public's attention??

 

On a more speculative note: How come the (at the very least some) questions or takes about GamersNexus being "shadowbanned" ? (There was a comment with ~2400 likes in the top for 6 hours until it disappeared into the abyss in about a 5-10 minute period - the speculative part is that it is done by someone.. , on purpose..... - also to be more clear, it is not "gone"/deleted and theoretically visible by any account, but it is behind thousands of comments, and will never be read, if not searched....) [If any more details are needed, do tell]

Why is it that it is always new members with random posts that don't make sense, are not written with correct syntax, hard to understand, alway always asking open ended/unclear questions making it seem like there is some kind of conspiracy? 

 

@darki333 I am not targeting you, you are just the most recent example I've seen.

 

Note to all newbies to the forum coming here because of the controversy. If you want to join in on the conversation, ask a genuine question or give genuine feedback/suggestions/criticism or just generally contribute, please take into account that poorly worded and/or disrespectful comments will be ignored (or potentially worse, but not normally around here). Think about your post, take note that the community here is not huge so new members with a low post count on the heals of something big will simply be dismissed unless they make sense, are thoughtful and respectful. 

 

If you are new and I have to read your post a second time to understand it I'm extremely unlikely to comment, if I need to read it a 3rd time I've already moved on. Just an fyi

[weez]

1 hour ago, yoc said:

Well, let me make it clear then, I'm not (necessarily).
That tweet is in response to someone talking about that, tho.



However, it supports my claim that someone not saying something doesn't mean that "everything fine". She literally says that don't want to say something because of the investigation.

Talking about something that’s under investigation isn’t something one does. Doesn’t matter what it is. You don’t talk publicly about it while an investigation is underway. She can get in serious trouble for doing so. Doesn’t mean people need to read into it and make something out of nothing. Until there is actually information there is nothing here

[maquisofjustic]

well this video is that as he actually lied once again as billet didn't recive any offer before the gamer nexus video! he lied in his video about apologizing.

Billet lab clearly said they never recived an offer from LMG before the gamers nexus scandle to lie in an apology video is too much for me just too much!!!!!

I watched you linus since your ncix times not anymore!

[OldGuard]

People will have their own opinion about Linus and this whole mess.

 

However, no matter what he (Linus) says.. His true colors and core values came out in that video clip where he said he would not re-test the gpu cooler with the correct gpu because it will cost them hundreds of dollars in employee time (that was/is the real Linus).. That comment shows that he views LMG employees as an expense (think of SIMS but instead of a ? above heads its $$).
 

When any business owner is so focused and affect by MONEY or viewing employees as an expense, that work environment over at LMG is definitely toxic.

 

 

[Java]

This sucks...wish GN had a forum

[gargamel314]

2 hours ago, yoc said:

Linus choose to address the issue here (initially). IMO is perfectly normal that a lot of people jumped here to share their thoughts.
 

If that were the case, then they would reply to his thread. It's just kinda interesting how most of the people here acting pretty much like trolls joined... 15 minutes ago and have fewer than 10 posts. All I'm saying. Interesting pattern.

 

EDIT: for clarification, that's a pointed comment, aimed at the two replies before mine.

[BadTatertot11147]

Wan show this week?