What do we do now?

[Francois B.]

In my first post, I wasn't aware of the serious misbehavior allegations by Madison. Accountability and reforms are due! There should be a topic open for that matter on this forum. And this situation could be caused by the issue I was describing.

 

Surely not clearly enough, so here's a drawing

Sure, at the beginning, when you're only 2 or 3, you assume every task, no choice. Now, you are +100, and if you want to compete in the media industry, you need to ensure your credibility by following this procedure created +100 years ago. 

Lately at LMG, after step 6 was consolidated, too much focus and resources have gone to steps 1 & 2. And no one was really assigned to steps 4, 5 and 6.

If Linus wants to be "Vision director" (aka Editorial director), he cannot touch steps 4, 5 & 6, only influence steps 1 & 3. and play his full role in step 2.

LMG is super weak on steps 3 to 6. That needs to be addressed first by appointing a full time role for each step.

 

Btw, I don't forget all the other services (sales, design, logistics, finances, communication, etc), but they are nothing without the backbone of a true media company.

Also, I understand that this ain't obvious to digital-only kids.

Hold on! Learn from your mistakes. Your motives are right, act accordingly.

 

Greetings from France

[Godiwa]

24 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Ignoring the Madison incident - which came out after the video was made - were the other things really that serious and grave for one to be absolutely dead serious? I mean it's not like they were apologizing for murdering someone. There wasn't any party that was physically hurt. It was mostly their incompetence, and they were just staying on brand and trying to lighten the mood with the lttstore, screwdriver and sponsor segment.

 

I do not think it took anything away from the apology video, especially when all the senior management came in apologized and highlighted steps to rectify all of it.

I don't think you can realistically enforce not discussing wages. Basically, all that clause disallows you to do is go to senior management and say "I want a raise because he/she gets this much" - which you can't really do in any private for-profit company tbh. If employees were getting poor wages, wouldn't we have seen a huge turnover rate at LMG? We don't and we constantly see so many faces sticking with LMG for non-insignificant amount of time

it wasn't ignored and they have made a statement on it... keep up before keeping throwing false blame

[Woofer21]

17 minutes ago, BrucaWayna said:

Thanks but jeez thats like 4AM here lmao, i will watch it tomorrow morning then, wan is gonna be juicy content

Its going to be something, thats for sure. 

[Hazz3r]

19 hours ago, richaoj said:

Since when is an email you send to a media/journalism outfit "confidential" by default?  It isn't.  Nor are emails between companies confidential.  

Look up Common Law of Confidence. By emails between companies, I specifically mean emails that detail business dealings.

[Woofer21]

3 minutes ago, Francois B. said:

In my first post, I wasn't aware of the serious misbehavior allegations by Madison. Accountability and reforms are due! There should be a topic open for that matter on this forum. And this situation could be caused by the issue I was describing.

There is no reason to have a topic for this atm, all that will lead to is more speculation which they don't need. An investigation is already ongoing so we will see what happens when both of those investigations (internal and 3rd party) are released. 

[Francois B.]

3 minutes ago, Woofer21 said:

There is no reason to have a topic for this atm, all that will lead to is more speculation which they don't need. An investigation is already ongoing so we will see what happens when both of those investigations (internal and 3rd party) are released. 

You know how it works: if they is no open topic, people are and will use other topics (like here) to express them-self on the matter.

The investigations were mandatory. But that's LMG issue, like their communication.

When you run a forum like this one and you know people really want to talk about something, better have a topic here rather than on Reddit... and avoid having this also serious editorial problem topic polluted.

Regards

[BiudreuN]

[Radium_Angel]

1 hour ago, GoStormPlaysYT said:

There’s no company like LMG.

And that's a good thing. We don't need more "info/edu/taiment" with shoddy testing, half-accurate reporting and really bad videography (the latter is why I don't watch the channel videos, they give me a headache)

[Godiwa]

28 minutes ago, Woofer21 said:

Its going to be something, thats for sure. 

yeah something like 2AM here and I am pondering to stay awake... just hope it's not a 6hour long stream lol

[public-file-6521]

3 hours ago, FluorescentGreen5 said:

However, I would still like to hear their comment on employees not being allowed to discuss their wages, and their former employees' claims that they're getting poor wages.

I know this isn't really the point, the discussion is about LMG's management practices as a whole, however LMG is actually now prohibited by law from punishing employees for discussing their wages (as of May 11, 2023). I'm quite pleased to see this change, even if it isn't in my jurisdiction. The best argument LMG had for a lack of wage transparency was that they needed to maintain confidentiality to stay competitive with other similarly situated companies (i.e. by not being forced to deal with unrest amongst employees and/or shift their bottom line to account for salary increases). Now, all of those companies are on an even and transparent playing field. 

[public-file-6521]

18 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

And that's a good thing. We don't need more "info/edu/taiment" with shoddy testing, half-accurate reporting and really bad videography (the latter is why I don't watch the channel videos, they give me a headache)

Yeah, what positive societal impact did we ever get from Bill Nye, anyway?

[Radium_Angel]

8 minutes ago, public-file-6521 said:

Yeah, what positive societal impact did we ever get from Bill Nye, anyway?

Can't say I know him

[Distinctly Average]

1 hour ago, Mondodimotori said:

That's your opinion.

 

But, generally, context is important, and a serious video shouldn't have space for dumb little jokes.

That really depends on the gravity of the situation. This was filmed before Madison tweeted. At that point there were IMHO, mistakes made and more than just a few. Were they done with intent? I really do not think they were. To me that looked a lot more like procedural shortcomings and poor communication mixed with a dose of human error. So a little humour, especially when you are poking fun at yourself is not a bad thing.

 

Sadly, here in the UK some media outlets have way overstepped the mark and with malice and intent. Thing is, they are still doing it. Take a look at what happened to The News of the World and its demise, the phone hacking, almost everything both The Sun and the Daily Mail do such as the recent reporting over a now mentally I’ll news reader. Even little things like the Daily Mail and their obvious bias against EVs. Just last week they were reporting how an “Expensive EV” was destroyed by a puddle. Turned out the water was deep enough that you could keep fish on the inside of the car. More importantly the pictures clearly showed it was a diesel Renault Captur and not even an EV. These are media organisations that dwarf LMG. Does it make the mistakes at LMG right? No, but you have to have some context. Unlike what many UK news outlets have been very guilty of, there appears no sign of malice or intent at LMG. That is with the mistakes and billet labs, the Madison case is a separate issue and only after the findings of an independent investigation can we really get to the truth of that.

[Thepyrodex]

1 hour ago, BrucaWayna said:

Can we safely assume that LTT is dead then? Can we at least return our LTT merch for a full refund? Including the northern lights desk mat?

If you are still in the return timeframe yeah otherwise, its not a warranty issue if you just have buyers remorse. from the store website.

 

Returns - We will issue a full refund, including any applicable sales taxes, for any products returned within the requirements outlined below. Please note that any shipping fees you may have paid in connection with your purchase are non-refundable.

Requirements for returns & exchanges

Within 30 days - you must contact our support team about any issues with your order within 30 days of delivery

Includes original packaging & product in like-new condition - any returned product(s) must be returned with any original packaging, and in the condition which the product(s) arrived. If your return is accepted, we will issue a refund or an exchange depending on your stated preference.

[Thomas Picard]

Anyone know when the OSS is going live on GH/BB/etc? Definitely itching to contribute to LTT.

[DrHax34]

Funny thing, I just went to download the video on Floatplane and apparently this is what the video file is called internally

 

Not that I expected otherwise, it's just funny to see Gamers Nexus right there in the title

[MithrandirGrey]

First time poster, long time lurker.

I've been a subscriber for years and I've always enjoyed grandly the videos on the main channel and the smaller channels. You can see during the last couple of years that sometimes they struggles to come up with ideas for new videos and they were not that interesting. However, I watched them anyway.

The last few days since this whole thing started have been disheartening to see and I unsubed from LTT reddit due to the amount of vitriol and just plain nastiness going on in there. Taking the Madison case aside (which if nothing else is a legal issue), I fail to see the issues raised by GN (which felt to me like a hit piece more than anything else) as the doom and gloom the community is painting, and nothing that cannot be improved.

Anyway, just want to give some support to Linus and the team on what must be some quite horrible few days. Looking forward the see LMG rebounding and coming out stronger after this.

[Luke Richards]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:09 PM, Aiken Drum said:

This was so close to being a good response, and then Linus showed up and STILL acted defensive and tried to put positive spin on it.

 

They should NOT have had him in this video if he wasn't going to be truly contrite. He took less than 30 seconds to go back to defensive mode, talking about how hard it is to be him and trying to point out all of the good things he thought he did.

 

No. NO!

 

Just fucking NO.

 

When you apologize, you talk about what you did wrong and how it'll be fixed going forward. You don't try to minimize it, you don't point out how much it sucks for you, you just DON'T.

 

This is not what humility looks like. This is what trying and failing to suppress your pride and hurt feelings looks like.

This is exactly my feelings on the matter. Linus might have reasons he feels he acted the way he did, but an apology is not the time to raise them. You're either apologising or you're justifying, you can't do both. 

[Luke Richards]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:10 PM, AHPanda said:

This whole video isn't an apology. It's LMG performing a whole lot of damage control. A bunch of upper management staring blankly at a teleprompter, a needless LTTstore plug proves they don't take the community's concerns serious enough. Furthermore I find it extremely funny that Linus says he's too emotional and admitting to making blunders... While being emotional and making blunders by even appearing in the video at all. Furthermore not respecting BL's wish to hide the true cost of the prototype by revealing the full price in an email.

 

Now they're going to 'take a week' to 'work on issues'. In other words, they're going to wait until this blows over. Well, maybe if not for the fact a certain ex-employee now comes forth with SA claims about certain LTT employees.

 

Actually this is a pretty good summary too. 

[iLikeBananas]

17 hours ago, BigFatTeddy said:

Wait? What? Who called out for GN to do that? What? I don't get it. When did GN become the tech-judge of Youtube?

 

17 hours ago, Woofer21 said:

What? No? LTT does not owe GN an apology.

 

Well I always liked how the tech youtubers held together, and how there was little to no drama between them. I see nothing wrong with GN's video. They are journalists and LTT is a veeeeery big company by now. There is in my opinion nothing wrong with calling them out when they make a mistake. In my opinion, the right thing to do, is to accept/admit your mistake and fix it. Without hating the other side. Steve said that he didn't contact Linus first because he suspected that he would try to weasel his way out of this, and that is in my opinion a valid reason.

 

And I say this as a Linus fanboy who is upset about the video break. I am watching almost all of their videos while rarely watching GN videos.

[DrHax34]

19 minutes ago, MithrandirGrey said:

First time poster, long time lurker.

I've been a subscriber for years and I've always enjoyed grandly the videos on the main channel and the smaller channels. You can see during the last couple of years that sometimes they struggles to come up with ideas for new videos and they were not that interesting. However, I watched them anyway.

The last few days since this whole thing started have been disheartening to see and I unsubed from LTT reddit due to the amount of vitriol and just plain nastiness going on in there. Taking the Madison case aside (which if nothing else is a legal issue), I fail to see the issues raised by GN (which felt to me like a hit piece more than anything else) as the doom and gloom the community is painting, and nothing that cannot be improved.

Anyway, just want to give some support to Linus and the team on what must be some quite horrible few days. Looking forward the see LMG rebounding and coming out stronger after this.

[DrHax34]

17 minutes ago, Luke Richards said:

This is exactly my feelings on the matter. Linus might have reasons he feels he acted the way he did, but an apology is not the time to raise them. You're either apologising or you're justifying, you can't do both. 

Except, you can? You can apologize for your actions and explain the logic behind them. Explaining the thought process behind a dumb response doesn't mean you're not regretting the action. You're apologizing for the response because you regret it and you're explaining what prompted it, that's it.

[Luke Richards]

Just now, DrHax34 said:

Except, you can? You can apologize for your actions and explain the logic behind them. Explaining the thought process behind a dumb response doesn't mean you're not regretting the action. You're apologizing for the response because you regret it and you're explaining what prompted it, that's it.

I agree with this.

 

But it's not what Linus did. He didn't apologise and explain, he 'apologised', then tried to justify and then minimised the complaint.  There's a subtle but crucial difference which I think speaks to Linus' inability to actually fully admit fault.

[DrHax34]

11 minutes ago, iLikeBananas said:

 

 

Well I always liked how the tech youtubers held together, and how there was little to no drama between them. I see nothing wrong with GN's video. They are journalists and LTT is a veeeeery big company by now. There is in my opinion nothing wrong with calling them out when they make a mistake. In my opinion, the right thing to do, is to accept/admit your mistake and fix it. Without hating the other side. Steve said that he didn't contact Linus first because he suspected that he would try to weasel his way out of this, and that is in my opinion a valid reason.

 

And I say this as a Linus fanboy who is upset about the video break. I am watching almost all of their videos while rarely watching GN videos.

How would GN contacting LMG allow them to weasel out of this? You can still present your video full of criticisms and just say "We contacted LMG for a statement and they provided the following: [insert LMG statement here]. We hope LMG hears our concerns and addresses them soon."

[WeiSheiLindon]

Very few of the issues people are angry about matter in the slightest. Let me explain. I'll group this into topics people are mad about, and why I think it either is not a valid point or it doesn't matter.

 

1. They sold the prototype water block from billet labs.

I think we could all agree that knowingly selling a prototype product is bad. It would not be morally okay to do so in the eyes of many. LMG has made it abundantly clear that this was not a decision that ever went through upper management in any meaningful way, and the cause of the sale was miscommunication internally. However, here are some inalienable truths about sending a product out for review:

A. Depending on getting the product back is foolish, LMG may usually have very high standards regarding this, but most tech media does not, particularly independents. Unless you remain in correspondence with the media firm every day for the time that they have the product, and the day they finish filming you send them the label to send it back, getting the product back is not a guarantee, regardless of the morals of the company.

B. It is ultimately up to the tech firm where the product goes after review, unless it is given alongside the signing of a contract requiring the return of the product, which is by no means common practice and I have to assume LMG did not have any such contract.

Internal process errors occur at each and every company. Whether it's something as simple as a phone company accidentally leaving a product page up before the launch of the product, or something more serious such as a customer service agent saying something unacceptable to a customer because of a misunderstanding of the CSR (Customer Service Representative) guidelines, it happens at each and every company. To paint LMG as a terrible company based on one such internal process error, is nearly as ungrounded and baseless as any claim you could make up about LMG being a bad company. (Key words - Make up)

- Moving into issues with the video reply they made to the situation -

 

2. The video reply was initially monetized.

LMG is a business. In order to stay in business, LMG needs to make money. If they are as motivated by money as people say based on that video being initially monetized, it seems extremely inconsistent with their past behavior. LMG has made many sponsored videos, none of which had their takeaway influenced by a third party. Although some may find it abhorrent that LMG was initially profiting off this video, it simply would not make sense to turn off monetization. As a business, maximizing profit in any way they can that aligns with the ethics of the company is always a goal. Businesses only exist because they make profit. Some may find this objectionable, but there's simply no other way to have a business. I would think the ethics of the company matter more than how much money they are making, because if the vast majority of people were to only support companies that make very little money, we would not have innovative products anymore. In order to innovate and improve, you need two things. Number one, an incentive to do so, usually profit. Number two, funding for your goal. If a company that makes 500,000 dollars a year in net profit invests 600,000 dollars in a product that turns out to be unsuccessful, they are now in debt, and no longer a successful business. As high a percentage of their net profit as that figure sounds, it's by no means unheard of, especially in the tech space. LMG has spent much more than that on LTT labs, and they have not gone out of business for it, because they have a successful business model. If they did not have a successful business model, they wouldn't be around anymore.

 

3. There were jokes made in the video about having sponsors.

You, the audience, do not have the right to revoke a license for humour. You may find certain jokes objectionable, but that is ultimately your problem. This does absolutely nothing to objectively prove LMG is an immoral company, and therefore, is irrelevant.

 

4. The quoted price of the Billet Labs water block was not blurred.

Billet labs did not communicate to LMG that the price was not yet public and they wanted to keep it that way. Knowing that they made a Reddit post about the situation wherein the price was blurred, does not change this. Billet Labs communicated with LMG directly via email. Expecting someone at LMG to have seen their Reddit post, and made the change, is not realistic. Once again a mistake any company could make. I can't help but feel that the community is grasping at straws on this one. However, it gets worse from here, and I fully expect to get cancelled for the next one.

 

5. Madison Soupp claims to have been mistreated severely while at LMG. 

 

Before reading this section, I suggest reading this twitter thread: 

We'll start from the beginning. She claims she was expected to post 3 tweets, 2 instagram posts, and 2 tiktoks per day, as well as coordinate and film 2 floatplane exclusives per week. This is actually quite reasonable. Here's an outline of what that might look like at LMG: 

TikTok 1: Overview of the new Noctua Edition LTT Screwdriver.

TikTok 2: Clip from a recent video about building a computer.

IG Post 1: Check out this video about the LTT Screwdriver: tiktokdotcom

IG Post 2: Watch Jake build the thinnest computer ever! youtubedotcom

Tweet 1: Haha, Linus just spilled his coffee all over his computer

Tweet 2: The iPhone 15 surprised us... New video coming soon

Tweet 3: Let's hear YOUR thoughts on the AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D! Video here: youtubedotcom

 

This sounds like an incredibly reasonable amount of work to do in 8 hours, even if you cut it down to 6 hours assuming you spend two hours every day on floatplane exclusives, which wouldn't be all that hard to film given the mostly unedited and handheld nature of them. You could even shoot them on a smartphone.

 

"My time at this company brought my mental health to an all time low.

You could talk to anyone who was around me during my employment and they would confirm it."

 

He said/She said has no role in this. It's also not LMG's fault if she couldn't handle the job.

 

When I read this thread yesterday, Madison claimed she cut open her leg because she felt it was the only way to get time off. That's since disappeared, which is shady on its own but I'll still go over this. Here's a screenshot from before it was removed, pinched from Reddit, for context:

In Canada, workers are protected against many regulations. She would not have been fired if she took a sick day, it would be illegal. For the cut though, you'd have to be mentally insane to injure yourself to that degree. That sort of injury would result in severe blood loss and a temporary disability, not "missing a day of work." Her claim is unrealistic at best, blatant slander at worst.

The last quote which reads 'I had co-workers come to me saying "I didn't like how you were treated, I'm glad that you got out." And only then did I realize it wasn't me.' Is also unrealistic. She claims it wasn't her, but she couldn't handle what most companies would consider to be a light workload for a social media agent. Rightfully so, most companies would think she's a horrible worker. LMG expects hard work, like many companies. Her expectations where frankly not very hard to accomplish, and if they were for her, that was her problem, not LMG's. They are not obligated to employ her. It was her choice to move to Canada for the job, and her having done that does not make her livelihood LMG's responsibility.

Given all this damning logic, I think most of it is a lie. The best lies have an element of truth and I'm sure this one does too, but that doesn't change that it is indeed, still a lie. A lie lacking context, too.

 

I'm about to get cancelled and I care so little. I just hope people start thinking logically, and particularly understand that they know very little about business, because they're mad for all the wrong reasons.

 

*I* am no expert on business. I'm 16. However I've picked up a lot from my parents.

Edited August 18, 2023 by WeiSheiLindon
Clarifying my qualifications