Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[TwirlyTwistyQuirkyWirky]

9 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Billet sent us a quote. I don't know or care how they arrived at the value. If they're good, I'm good.

As for what steps we're taking, you're talking about an outlier issue that has happened once in 10+ years of operation. There won't be a new SOP to ensure we don't accidentally auction stuff. We just need to tighten up some documentation.

I think this is like really illustrative of the problem. Linus went corporate for the wrong reasons. He's not a businessman, his brain doesn't like bureaucracy. He's spending $10,000,000 building a testing facility and he thinks he can "tighten up some documentation," in a company that big without rewriting his SOPs. He believes it so fully, he is publically announcing it during his largest recent scandal.  Like, this is shocking and ridiculous. I truly think we're on the precipice between timelines where Linus either rapidly gets his business together or where LMG falls apart and Linus goes back to a production scale that he can actually manage.

[Legitsu]

Just now, MGsubbie said:

Basing this on Linus refusing to follow a manual and using it on the wrong product?

doesn't matter

as linus said and I can't stress this enough

the product is stupid

OK

if you need a review to make you understand that I don't know what to tell you except try thinking critically 

 

[JoshuaScholar]

Also I'm a bit annoyed with the people accusing Steve of bad journalism for I have no idea what, not calling Linus to hold his hand?

 

I'll admit that Steve's response to his misprinted mats wasn't perfect, but he really did do as much as he could afford. If I bought one of those mats I would have been a bit amused, and I certainly wouldn't miswire any connectors after he made me a nice dreamcatcher with the right diagram on it. Lol.

 

Steve is technically competent at all parts of his job and very consistent.  That's about all you can ask.

[MGsubbie]

Just now, Legitsu said:

doesn't matter

as linus said and I can't stress this enough

the product is stupid

OK

if you need a review to make you understand that I don't know what to tell you except try thinking critically 

 

LInus literally has nothing to go on when he makes that claim, if you can't see that, you're the one who can't think critically.

[YZF-RX]

1 minute ago, Legitsu said:

doesn't matter

as linus said and I can't stress this enough

the product is stupid

OK

if you need a review to make you understand that I don't know what to tell you except try thinking critically 

 

Hilarious, telling others to think critically while simultaneously believing every word as gospel from Linus without doing any critical thinking of your own. Big brain right there.

[Blademaster91]

12 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

Testing methodology doesn't matter in this case. The product is stupid. Okay I'm sorry we don't need a review on it to know that one look at it. Tells you all you need to know about it. It looks like it was engineered in a garage by a 15-year-old machinist intern I'm sorry that you know the product sucks and it's $800 worth of copper. The fact that it's $800 worth of copper should tell you everything you need to know about the people that designed it I'll fault LMG for this. They should have never ever reviewed the piece of crap. The water block LMG designed for a meme was a better designed water block linuses reaction on wan show was 100% on point. It is a stupid product it's performance is completely irrelevant because pure copper or not there's not going to be enough of a difference to justify the price and I've never held a thing and I can tell you that for certain. I know enough about physics and machining to know that nothing about that thing makes sense. That's what a lot of people hear. Don't get they keep looking for the review to understand something they know nothing about. While there are some things people understand that you don't, and we don't necessarily feel the need to explain it to you and aggravating detail to make you feel better. The product was dumb and of story. Trust me bro guaranteed

Do you know the water block is crap for sure? LMG refused to retest it correctly on the GPU it was made for, and if you knew things about machining, you'd know that aesthetics aren't everything, the Billet block was a specialized custom block, not a Corsair RGB water block that fits with a case full of RGB fans.

11 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Yes, let's call everyone back into work over the weekend for each mistake, that's sure to increase work-life balance.

You said management, so only one or two people would would have to come back into work, or it could be solved with an email or phone call.

Thats a weird take to defend LMG.

14 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

No, I think Steve is a douchebag for plenty of other well-founded reasons. What I'm saying is that you can't gauge LMG by the lack of their response, because they didn't have a chance to make one publicly.

 

And honestly, Steve can be happy no one in the electronics industry cares enough about him to make a 45 minute attack video about his technical content. And he has had plenty of warnings.

 

Communication issues happen in companies. I find it interesting how everyone expects no mistakes are made, while they most likely make such mistakes as well at their own job.

And I think Linus is too entitled, and we see that he is a douchebag with his takes on the WAN show attacking others without even naming names. Everyone is welcome to their opinion lol.

People in the electronics industry care about watching LTT videos though?

As for the "communication issue" that more means a oops we lost it, or LMG doesn't care enough about it because the company isn't sponsoring them. A company of over 100 employees shouldn't be making such mistakes with every item being tagged in an inventory list.

[bandainamcofan]

3 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

doesn't matter

as linus said and I can't stress this enough

the product is stupid

OK

if you need a review to make you understand that I don't know what to tell you except try thinking critically 

 

It doesn't matter how stupid you or Linus find it. Reviewing it properly matters for the person who wants this exact type of product. (edit for elaboration)

[Drazil100]

Just now, WereCat said:

I agree. What I had in mind was that if they resolved it privately then LMG would have the chance to correct their mistake by making a correction on their side without other outlets having to take a shot at them.

But they just didn't took that route.

The video quality control stuff maybe, but the auctioning of the prototype no. That needed more attention. I believe LMG is capable of improving, but every big company needs to get called out and publicly shamed every once in a while.

[jamaniek]

3 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

Testing methodology doesn't matter in this case. The product is stupid. Okay I'm sorry we don't need a review on it to know that one look at it. Tells you all you need to know about it. It looks like it was engineered in a garage by a 15-year-old machinist intern I'm sorry that you know the product sucks and it's $800 worth of copper. The fact that it's $800 worth of copper should tell you everything you need to know about the people that designed it I'll fault LMG for this. They should have never ever reviewed the piece of crap. The water block LMG design was a better designed water block. Then that abomination

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about both in terms of cost and design of the product. As a Mechanical Engineer myself I can tell you that the piece was a freaking work of machining art with proper fluid dynamics taken into consideration (which Linus touches on in the video too). Also you grossly overestimate how much copper is worth in volume.

 

Was the product stupid? Probably, yes. But it could find it's audience as all over the top things do 

 

As for the review itself - It's like testing a cooler on an AMD processor with Intel Bracket and complaining that it doesn't dissipate heat properly. Bad testing completely invalidates the results. That's it. 

 

 

[JoshuaScholar]

If you think a product "is stupid" then  it's open season to destroy their company on a whim, trash their product without actually testing it, and refuse to apologize.  Oh and to give away their engineering prototype FOR CHARITY!

 

I wouldn't hire you!

[trustmebro16]

3 hours ago, Elinzar said:

Steve had it yes, like you had Billet labs number as well, and Pwned number for the mouse testing..., but in your best journalistic practices you didnt do it to validate your testing so why Steve should when it affects you?, but honestly that is not really the important bit

Neither is the inacurancies in LTT videos, i personaly dont care about that in your videos because LTT never was a reliable source, i watch it for entertainment, altough that there are people like me with this stance should make you worry about spending millions in making a lab for us to not really give a dam about the testing as we wont even trust it, what will be the point? (fr why would i trust a review that says this mouse is X thing when they cant even make sure to take the protective film out of the skates?

because credibility in testing is built over YEARS of perfecting the craft, something that both Steves have done

(another tangent, Short Circuit "might" be called an unboxing channel, but the moment they say "its backed up by labs testing" it is a review plan and simple)

But the worst part is just how Dirty you did to Billet labs intentional or not, you as an owner of a company that is involved in manufacturing and that you personally is involved lots into the creative process should know more than ANYONE how bad was to lose THEIR ONLY ONE PROTOTYPE BY SELLING IT OFF

its value for Billet labs is inmessurable as a company, is the culmination of years of hard work that cant just be replaced with money, what if your precious Screwdriver prototype that you took years to develop was lost like this, and the backpack, and how would you feel if both where your ONLY PRODUCT

Not only the poor review of the product that trashed their reputation as well, only monetary compensation will not be enough for them to put them back in the map up until now that everyone knows how dirty did to them, but if nobody blew the whistle we all would have been none the wiser to their inevitable dissapearance from the market, as well you know without a product, they cant eat or so you say

what it also kinda pisses me off is how you when you where a small fish at 1 million subs and Nvidia wanted to mess with all the media making treats you all unionised against the big fish to call them out

now that you are a big fish you are doing basically the same to a small company and you dont even want to look at the mess you created, you will, as you say too, pull an XQC and plug your ears and chant LALALALALA until this controversy pass just like with the Trust me bro controversy

lets all get mad when big corpo Nvidia try to screw the small media, But Spare Big Corpo LTT when it screws over a small startup because after 10+ years of begin in the game they still havent figured out how to have actual reliable comunications with the companies they work with, how many more years of learning you need? 20?

its my honest impression of what is going on with LTT and im saying this seriously pissed, i probably not be right 100% nor i know the entire situation, but im also not getting paid to write this so... yeah thats all i have to say, feel free to correct me but most likely wont be reading anything as i just made this account to give my take on all of this, i hope Linus actually listens for once, makes LTT have a pause and invest on solving their issues

lol you are equating to a hit piece on all of LMG that linus should be aware with and reached out to by steve

with a product testing that his team shouldve handled properly on his behalf

talk about false equivalences

[Elinzar]

3 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

I would hope so because any machinest worth there salt that made such a abomination should be ashamed

 

they didn't make a product they cut some holes in a chunk of copper and put some decorative bits on it 

boo hoo cry me a river 

 

well we will never know for sure because the billet block made by a 15yo intern was reviewed by an incompetent review channel that can read a manual

also this isnt really important, they sold something it wasnt theirs, and they sold the only prototype of those 15yo running the company and any chance for them to bounce back or fix said poor machining

so much LTT cried a river when big corpo Nvidia was trying to kill small media, but now they are a big corpo they are killing a small company and not even intentionally, but they are, this is the issue, the review itself doesnt matter 

[RazielKanos]

13 minutes ago, kreative said:

But how would he know that the product sucked, if he hasn't tested it on the right card? Please enlighten us instead of turning a blind eye.

If you scream at a card "stay cool" and it doesn't stay cool, it doesn't matter if you screamed at the wrong card, the method is silly, that was what Linus was pointing out.

[Legitsu]

8 minutes ago, YZF-RX said:

Listen, we get it, you're head over heels for bootlicking LMG and will do anything to support them but you need to at least check your facts before spouting this nonsense.

 

Have you even looked at the Billet Labs performance testing done with their monoblocks? It shows an improvement in performance over the EK Quantum series blocks when they were installed into a 3090ti/12900k setup.

 

This isn't just some product that "sucks and is a piece of crap". Sure it looks a little rough but hey, you know what prototype means right?

wow a 800 dollar waterblock for a outdated gpu sign me up.

 

its also a outdated water block design with a bad flow pattern that fits no consumer cases/boards on the market

its also made out of COPPER which means you can't use it with 90% of the other water loop components without running into serious metalergy issues

 

 

there is SO MANY REASONS why this is dumb that have nothing todo with performace that it boggles the mind

 

but think about this  we used to make our water blocks in the same manner as billet. we stopped doing that for a reason. 

maby ponder what those reasons might have been

 

its like beating my head against a wall with you people you don't seem to understand that linus could have taken out out of the box and chucked it in the trash AND IT Litterally would have changed NOTHING 

 

Some ideas no matter how well intentioned are just bad. this was a bad idea 

 

did linus/LMG handle it poorly absolutely

does it  change that fact that the product was doomed from the get go NOPE! 

 

I watched the entire video with a dull pain in my head thinking to my self NO GO PLEASE NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

because the product struct me as illconvienced waste of copper time and money 

 

[JamesC87]

3 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

doesn't matter

as linus said and I can't stress this enough

the product is stupid

OK

if you need a review to make you understand that I don't know what to tell you except try thinking critically 

 

So Linus makes mistakes in other videos because they are making too much content with strict guidelines, but then decided to make a video about a product they knew would be bad just by the description. Even if you say there is no Market for a $800 piece of copper, doesn’t absolve all the other issues that LTM is clearly going through… in fact it makes it worse imo that they would then even waste their time starting a video on something that bad… 

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, RazielKanos said:

If you scream at a card "stay cool" and it doesn't stay cool, it doesn't matter if you screamed at the wrong card, the method is silly, that was what Linus was pointing out.

Once again, the problem is that there are directly opposed things being shown. One is a nice lab with fancy equipment and all sorts of cool things they can do to test stuff. The other is the person the company is named after saying he can't be bothered to properly review an item as it was intended to be used, then saying it isn't a problem that he didn't.

[trustmebro16]

Just now, JoshuaScholar said:

If you think a product "is stupid" then  it's open season to destroy their company on a whim, trash their product without actually testing it, and refuse to apologize.  Oh and to give away their engineering prototype FOR CHARITY!

 

I wouldn't hire you!

so you are saying:
- you are upset with linus having an opinion on a product (which is why they sent in their product, to get an opinion)
- you have hard evidence linus set out to destroy a company. Cause if you dont, wouldnt that be slander? unless its just personal opinion and not facts?

- they purposefuly gave away their engineering prototype - implying you didnt actually read the OP post where they clarified it was accidental and due to miscommunication

i mean linus being a dick about this original ordeal is very bad. We are all upset about it. No need to make up stuff to get extra emotional when it didnt happen

[filpo]

5 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

doesn't matter

as linus said and I can't stress this enough

the product is stupid

OK

if you need a review to make you understand that I don't know what to tell you except try thinking critically 

 

This is basically like saying 'Apple's the best for everything' (it's an analogy, don't get mad)

 

Same for Youtube companies, LMG is like the apple of YouTube Tech channels (kind of). They're good in some cases but they make errors (like small incremental upgrades between gens) and create inaccurate data (like apple's nonsensical graphs).

 

They may not have done most of it on purpose but some they definitely did

[kreative]

1 minute ago, RazielKanos said:

If you scream at a card "stay cool" and it doesn't stay cool, it doesn't matter if you screamed at the wrong card, the method is silly, that was what Linus was pointing out.

What? Have you actually looked at the numbers Billet Labs published? They are outperforming EKWB in most cases. It was LTTs job to verify those claims and call them out if it was wrong, not to test on a wrong card and then randomly trashing the product.

 

Tldr: the card would have stayed cool, if LTT didn't mess up the testing.

[Elinzar]

1 minute ago, trustmebro16 said:

lol you are equating to a hit piece on all of LMG that linus should be aware with and reached out to by steve

with a product testing that his team shouldve handled properly on his behalf

talk about false equivalences

Pwned wasnt aware of the LTT hit piece of a review on their mouse and they had to leave a comment like any peasant like us

Billet labs wasnt aware on LTT hit piece on them either

altough i agree that GN should have approached regardless and say Bro Chill at least
LTT hasnt have done the same with others so they are not in a position to ask the same imo

but ideally yes GN should have approached

[Drazil100]

1 minute ago, bandainamcofan said:

It doesn't matter how stupid you or Linus find it. It matters for the person who wants this exact type of product.

It also matters cause Linus knew IN THE VIDEO he was using the wrong card and he did it cause he didn't think people wanted to see anything but a current gen card. He went into it on a maybe. If the product had failed on the hardware it was intended for then yeah I could see not wanting to spend more time on it, but the bad performance was completely on Linus and he should have either tested it on the correct hardware initially or eat it and spend the few hundred bucks to make sure it gets showed off correctly.

[dynastes]

I have mixed feeling about this whole situation. On the one hand, I can understand Linus' frustration with Steve not reaching out to him first, especially since, as I understand it, there has been a good working relationship between the two of them.

 

On the other hand, I do not fully agree with the assertion that it would constitute good journalistic practice to iron everything out internally, because, especially because of the aforementioned relationship, this might have swayed certain opinions that are, after all, based upon undeniable fact. You will be hard pressed to deny that LTT reviews tend to have inaccuracies or errors in them that might very well be prevented by better processes or a greater amount of time investment that is not limited by an internal release schedule. Sure, people want to see a GPU review when said GPU releases, but it is not like LTT would not still garner millions of views on a video like that when releasing one or two days later. It is therefore not wholly unjustified to call out these entirely preventable mistakes, especially given the size that LMG has at this point.

 

And yeah, it might constitute a problem when subjective opinion bleeds into a video that is at least partly backed by empirical data and can therefore be considered a review by a part of the LTT demographic (Asus RTX 4070). Or when gross miscommunication leads to a start-up losing a prototype that they obviously still needed. OR when close ties to a company (Noctua), very possibly in combination with generally positive opinions regarding their high quality standards (which are, of course, well justified, but still), leads people not to point out possible insufficiencies of their coolers in certain scenarios. It is not entirely untrue that a more critical approach could and should be taken when you consider yourself a future source of a buttload of objective data.

 

Finally I will just say this: I think it is regrettable that Linus has ruled this out from being a topic of discussion on WAN show this week. If you ask me, you, @LinusTech, should even bring Steve on and make a good deal of the show about discussing the issues at hand. Something like that should be to the benefit of everyone in the end, especially because I seriously doubt that GN's video was intended as a snipe piece. Monetization is turned off there after all and the video isn't sponsored. Had it been made for clout or something like that, they might as well have earned money off of it. That's my opinion at least.

 

Greetings

 

A long-time lurker and fan.

[RichardBirch]

Just now, Legitsu said:

wow a 800 dollar waterblock for a outdated gpu sign me up.

 

its also a outdated water block design with a bad flow pattern that fits no consumer cases/boards on the market

its also made out of COPPER which means you can't use it with 90% of the other water loop components without running into serious metalergy issues

 

 

there is SO MANY REASONS why this is dumb that have nothing todo with performace that it boggles the mind

 

but think about this  we used to make our water blocks in the same manner as billet. we stopped doing that for a reason. 

maby ponder what those reasons might have been

 

its like beating my head against a wall with you people you don't seem to understand that linus could have taken out out of the box and chucked it in the trash AND IT Litterally would have changed NOTHING 

 

Some ideas no matter how well intentioned are just bad. this was a bad idea 

Your comments are incendiary and add nothing to this thread. I have no issue with people expressing a meaningful opinion but your comments appear to be either pure ragebait or someone who legitimately doesn't understand the issues raised.

 

Even if you ignore the water block debacle which is your fixation, the other issues raised are a need for concern.

[RazielKanos]

1 minute ago, Elinzar said:

well we will never know for sure because the billet block made by a 15yo intern was reviewed by an incompetent review channel that can read a manual

also this isnt really important, they sold something it wasnt theirs, and they sold the only prototype of those 15yo running the company and any chance for them to bounce back or fix said poor machining

so much LTT cried a river when big corpo Nvidia was trying to kill small media, but now they are a big corpo they are killing a small company and not even intentionally, but they are, this is the issue, the review itself doesnt matter 

Any "proof" of a killed company, or are we just Tom Crusing possible future situations, a la Minority Report? Also, they (MLG) are paying for their ( BL ) losses, why don't you add THAT to your arguments as well? Would muddy your argument, I guess...

[JoshuaScholar]

So this argument is coming down to:

Steve:  Linus didn't test it, it might actually work!

 

Linus' fans:  It's so overpriced that it's fine to slander it and the company, not knowing or caring if it works!