Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[JoshuaScholar]

2 minutes ago, Elinzar said:

Pwned wasnt aware of the LTT hit piece of a review on their mouse and they had to leave a comment like any peasant like us

Billet labs wasnt aware on LTT hit piece on them either
 

Exactly!

[RazielKanos]

1 minute ago, kreative said:

What? Have you actually looked at the numbers Billet Labs published? They are outperforming EKWB in most cases. It was LTTs job to verify those claims and call them out if it was wrong, not to test on a wrong card and then randomly trashing the product.

 

Tldr: the card would have stayed cool, if LTT didn't mess up the testing.

That might be possible, I can't conform that - I was just trying to draw a picture to explain Linus statement from the WAN Show. I am on neighter side of this story. Both fucked up, I'm just sad about the fanboyism on both sides currently...

[Legitsu]

1 minute ago, RichardBirch said:

Your comments are incendiary and add nothing to this thread. I have no issue with people expressing a meaningful opinion but your comments appear to be either pure ragebait or someone who legitimately doesn't understand the issues raised.

 

Even if you ignore the water block debacle which is your fixation, the other issues raised are a need for concern.

I understand the issues 

BUT like most of the people that have joined the board in the last 8 hours I simply don't care:

I have no dog in this race but it sure is fun to watch the trolls from GN try and justify there non-sense 

/S 

[trustmebro16]

3 minutes ago, Elinzar said:

well we will never know for sure because the billet block made by a 15yo intern was reviewed by an incompetent review channel that can read a manual

also this isnt really important, they sold something it wasnt theirs, and they sold the only prototype of those 15yo running the company and any chance for them to bounce back or fix said poor machining

so much LTT cried a river when big corpo Nvidia was trying to kill small media, but now they are a big corpo they are killing a small company and not even intentionally, but they are, this is the issue, the review itself doesnt matter 

billet has a multi thousand upvoted reddit front page post giving them more virtue signalled exposure and support than the original video ever would. They are doing fine. Had the LTT video been done properly, they mightve sold a few $800 niche waterblocks to some whales. Now they have brand awareness, good will and product sales of their cheaper product lines + compensation from LMG financially covering them for more than just the waterblock loss

meanwhile you guys are acting like 1 UNINTENTIONAL blunder from Lmg in 10 years is unforgivable.

what else do you want from LMG lol? bankrupt themselves so your bloodlust is happy?

[filpo]

4 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

wow a 800 dollar waterblock for a outdated gpu sign me up.

yes but it's the idea that counts. LMG essentially put down a startup without even bothering to know if it was compatible prior to testing

 

That kind of testing shouldn't be viable in a youtube channel with a million subscribers let alone one that has over 15 million and is worth 100 million dollars

[Legitsu]

3 minutes ago, JoshuaScholar said:

So this argument is coming down to:

Steve:  Linus didn't test it, it might actually work!

 

Linus' fans:  It's so overpriced that it's fine to slander it and the company, not knowing or caring if it works!

this sounds bad

but you are correct and linus is correct its so incrediably stupid NOBODY should care 

like seriously billet can stop exisitng now please 

[Blademaster91]

2 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

wow a 800 dollar waterblock for a outdated gpu sign me up.

 

its also a outdated water block design with a bad flow pattern that fits no consumer cases/boards on the market

its also made out of COPPER which means you can't use it with 90% of the other water loop components without running into serious metalergy issues

 

 

there is SO MANY REASONS why this is dumb that have nothing todo with performace that it boggles the mind

 

but think about this  we used to make our water blocks in the same manner as billet. we stopped doing that for a reason. 

maby ponder what those reasons might have been

 

its like beating my head against a wall with you people you don't seem to understand that linus could have taken out out of the box and chucked it in the trash AND IT Litterally would have changed NOTHING 

 

Some ideas no matter how well intentioned are just bad. this was a bad idea 

A 3090Ti is suddenly an outdated pile of crap? Well thats news to me.

That still doesn't explain or excuse why LTT put a 3090Ti block on a 4090, if they didn't have a 3090Ti in their inventory then they should've gotten one.

And I still haven't see anyone come up with a good defense for why Linus accepted the review for the Billet block, knowing the price of it yet still complaining it was too expensive then doing a massive f#$% you to the start up company by using it on the wrong GPU, then not returning the block when they were asked to.

[CaptainRan]

6 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

wow a 800 dollar waterblock for a outdated gpu sign me up.

 

its also a outdated water block design with a bad flow pattern that fits no consumer cases/boards on the market

its also made out of COPPER which means you can't use it with 90% of the other water loop components without running into serious metalergy issues

 

 

there is SO MANY REASONS why this is dumb that have nothing todo with performace that it boggles the mind

 

but think about this  we used to make our water blocks in the same manner as billet. we stopped doing that for a reason. 

maby ponder what those reasons might have been

 

its like beating my head against a wall with you people you don't seem to understand that linus could have taken out out of the box and chucked it in the trash AND IT Litterally would have changed NOTHING 

 

Some ideas no matter how well intentioned are just bad. this was a bad idea 

You do realize most water cooling components are made of copper? 

[RazielKanos]

5 minutes ago, bandainamcofan said:

Once again, the problem is that there are directly opposed things being shown. One is a nice lab with fancy equipment and all sorts of cool things they can do to test stuff. The other is the person the company is named after saying he can't be bothered to properly review an item as it was intended to be used, then saying it isn't a problem that he didn't.

I am totally on your side with that. That remark about "i can't throw another 500$ of time..." just was a typical poor Linus arrogance line, no questions asked...

[JoshuaScholar]

1 minute ago, trustmebro16 said:

what else do you want from LMG lol? bankrupt themselves so your bloodlust is happy?

I want them to slow down enough that they put out videos that are correct in the first place and stop making bad excuses for bad behavior.

[ArcticWarfare]

Sometimes, the best thing that can happen to a team of this scale is a direct punch to their gut to re-ground the team, management, and ethics.

Sure, it may have been a hard thing to hear, especially when it was brilliantly explained by GN , but it's been noticed that since the massive increase in staff, smaller and more frequent errors have started creeping in. Before you know it, you have a script and video ready to roll for shooting, and just when you think everything has been thoroughly tested and is going as planned and expected, a decision is made to swap out the entire system for a completely different one. The USB video is a good example of this.

The best course of action, in my opinion, should be for them to acknowledge the faults and restructure in a way that ensures everything is correct before they start shooting. This becomes even more critical with a lot of fresh blood on the team, where their enthusiasm might cloud their research process. Making mistakes is human and understandable, but during the shoot, greater diligence is needed.

 

To the team, I encourage you to not beat yourselves up over what's happened, but to use it as an opportunity for growth. Use it to recognize that what's done is done.

 

To Big Linus and the management, this is a chance to realign with what you've strived to bring us all these years. You are more than capable of stepping back and reigning in your ego to get the ship back on course. I'm confident that everyone knows you can do it. Sometimes, a metaphorical slap across the face is what's needed to revive the main character!

[filpo]

3 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

I have no dog in this race but it sure is fun to watch the trolls from GN try and justify there non-sense 

That's the problem with two sides, they both have different takes. No point in discussing if no one is going to accept the other's points. And if both sides keep imploring their take it'll just cause chaos

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

A 3090Ti is suddenly an outdated pile of crap? Well thats news to me.

It was a hotheaded gpu yes but it's still pretty good. It trails behind the 4080 which I think is pretty good for it

[Dillykins]

Long time viewer / subscriber (was around during the NCIX days). LTT have become a victim of their own success. They have grown significantly with labs etc and to sustain this growth, it feels they need to churn out half baked videos to keep the lights on. Over the last 6 months I've regularly noticed how many amendments are made to vids in post and felt very validated when GamersNexus called it out. It feels really sloppy and makes me question what can be trusted.

 

In regards to Linus's response in this thread saying it should have been sorted out behind closed doors; that everything should have been clarified before posting the video: no way. They have no obligation to treat LTT like a small independent channel when you have outgrown the 'indie persona' shoes significantly a long time ago. LTT are now one of the big guys with demonstrated biased reviews towards specific partners. You can't flip this around, pointing at GamersNexus and saying that it was a dick move. The dick move was not listening to your staff and putting a value on quantity over quality. History won't remember how many dollars were in your bank account.

 

Your team are begging you to slow things down, to return integrity, but evidence shows that their requests have been ignored.

These guys are the pulse of your organisation dude and you need to listen to them. You will lose great people if you don't.

 

I listen to the WAN show while gaming however I don't think I want to anymore. When stuff like this comes up, there's always an excuse with a light sprinkling of accountability on top as to appear humble. This is a situation where GamersNexus called you out, they are right, they have so many receipts that you should just feel embarrassed and be committed to change. Yes, it's tough that your job is to make sure there's enough money to pay everyone and remain profitable. While it might sustain viewership now, a time will come when people get tired of videos with 20 amendments and uninformed info. This time for me, is now.

 

Slightly unrelated, but a while ago on Twitter that LTT posted a full-on advertisement for some random product. I commented that it was disappointing to see the LTT Twitter being used for advertisements and that I follow you guys to hear tech news and video releases. The response from the LTT account was something like 'u mad bro'. Super unprofessional for some feedback that was genuine. I only really used Twitter to follow your feed and ended up deleting my Twitter account a couple of days later. I mention this as there appears to be a high-pressure / throughput echo chamber where LTT can do no wrong. This is very evident in responses to criticism in the past, sometimes you can see Luke physically wince with some of Linus' perspectives on criticism.

 

As a consumer of your product, it's really sad to see the gradual pivot from quality to a focus on profit. I'm pretty sure early 2000's Eminem looking Linus only wanted a job where he could play with the cool, new gadgets and he could tell everyone how awesome they are. Now it's all about 30 videos per week, appeasing the youtube algorithm in pursuit of views. If you go back to your roots, the views will come organically.

Bummer dude. Cya.

[bandainamcofan]

Just now, trustmebro16 said:

billet has a multi thousand upvoted reddit front page post giving them more virtue signalled exposure and support than the original video ever would. They are doing fine. Had the LTT video been done properly, they mightve sold a few $800 niche waterblocks to some whales. Now they have brand awareness, good will and product sales of their cheaper product lines + compensation from LMG financially covering them for more than just the waterblock loss

meanwhile you guys are acting like 1 UNINTENTIONAL blunder from Lmg in 10 years is unforgivable.

what else do you want from LMG lol? bankrupt themselves so your bloodlust is happy?

That they're probably going to benefit from this in the long run does not mitigate the fact serious mistakes were made. I've already said if LMG is making it right, so be it, but the handling of the review is indefensible on any level. If it wasn't going to be done right, it shouldn't have been done.

[kreative]

Just now, Legitsu said:

I understand the issues 

BUT like most of the people that have joined the board in the last 8 hours I simply don't care:

I have no dog in this race but it sure is fun to watch the trolls from GN try and justify there non-sense 

/S 

I have joined this board 4 years ago and mainly watching HU and LTT for over the last 5 years. You are just salty because people call you out for your ignorant behavior, when the criticism LMG is getting is very valid

1 minute ago, RazielKanos said:

That might be possible, I can't conform that - I was just trying to draw a picture to explain Linus statement from the WAN Show. I am on neighter side of this story. Both fucked up, I'm just sad about the fanboyism on both sides currently...

How is it fanboyism when linus refuses to test the product on the card it was designed for, but triples down that his test findings were correct? He absolutely deserves to be called out for it.

[JoshuaScholar]

Slowing down is what LMG's employees were quoted as wanting.

There's literally a quote by one saying that he can't be proud of any of his work!

[trustmebro16]

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

A 3090Ti is suddenly an outdated pile of crap? Well thats news to me.

That still doesn't explain or excuse why LTT put a 3090Ti block on a 4090, if they didn't have a 3090Ti in their inventory then they should've gotten one.

And I still haven't see anyone come up with a good defense for why Linus accepted the review for the Billet block, knowing the price of it yet still complaining it was too expensive then doing a massive f#$% you to the start up company by using it on the wrong GPU, then not returning the block when they were asked to.

cause you guys assume LMG is being run by 1 man making all the communications, admin and decisions by himself

you are assuming Linus replied to the emails himself
purposely decided to not perform the tests correctly

purposely ensure the wrong gpu was used

purposely decide to ruin a company

 

no other scenario or person was involved or was a possible cause

when in fact there is a chain of people performing actions and as he acknowledged himself, there are improvements they will be making to improve the process so these blunders dont happen again

youve come up with a fictional scenario in your mind that fits the narrative that he "knowingly" did this and that and assumed thats the only possible reasoning

whilst his actions are inexcusable enough, lets not make up stuff to be outraged about to pile on

[Elinzar]

1 minute ago, RazielKanos said:

Any "proof" of a killed company, or are we just Tom Crusing possible future situations, a la Minority Report? Also, they (MLG) are paying for their ( BL ) losses, why don't you add THAT to your arguments as well? Would muddy your argument, I guess...

a company that small (2 guys afaik) that is basically stalled with nothing in the pipeline is basically dead in the water
yes the cheque might help them recover but their name wont after what they done to the review until now that someone else had to report on this

but yeah you are right we dont really have any real data on how they are doing, we can only infere on the little we know externaly from what GN, LTT and Billet Labs have said

[Jignesh Chauhan]

I am watching LTT video since a long time. My interest in Tech started watching LTT videos. A lot of channels in tech which I follow were recommended by YT because I was watching LTT videos. 

That said what GN done today may be a reaction to the comments made by LTT staff. No hiding the fact that there is a lot of truth in GN's video. 

LTT has a very tight upload schedule. 

As a result there are mistakes are made, correcting mistakes take time. 

LTT has always taken the quick option to pin a comment or *text in the edit, LTT do not reshoots the segment most of the time. The tight upload schedule does not permit that. 

Quantity over quality, this is the main issue. 

LTT needs to think which direction they want to go. Yes LTT videos are entertaining, if the goal of the organization is accurate info then quality need to be important. 

Time an again LTT has said that it is not worth the time of it's employees to retest or redo a video portion. 

Example every employee is is expected to maintain time sheets to keep track of productivity. 

All this boiles down to quantity over quality and there is a bit of trust issues if employees are doing their job or not.  

In my personal opinion time sheets are very old school way to tracking work. 

 

I hope LTT learns from this. 

[Jimmmmypop]

I will just say I have been a long time fan of this channel and a OG member on floatplane.  I love the videos  because they are a lot of fun.  That said I would and have never made a buying decision based off a LTT video.  1st because you should never use one source and 2nd because of how many mistakes I have seen in the past.  
 

I’m fine with that for this channel because like I said I have fun watching the content here.  My one word of caution would just be if you really want to make labs something consumers trust quality of testing needs to be paramount.  Building a reputation of trust is hard and having a video testing a water block on the wrong card is going to have the opposite effect.  For labs to work accuracy has to be most important for anything reviewed even if the product is “stupidly overpriced.”

Like I said though I like the videos and will continue watching and don’t really fault the tests not being accurate cause I never expected them to be from this channel.  So thanks for the laughs you and your team provide me on a daily basis.

[RichardBirch]

4 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

it sure is fun to watch the trolls

Quote

like seriously billet can stop exisitng now please 

Do you not realise what you are doing? You are the troll. I'm not going to bother with further replies to you as I'm just stoking the fire but I strongly suggest that you try to gain some introspection.

[Legitsu]

2 minutes ago, Elinzar said:

a company that small (2 guys afaik) that is basically stalled with nothing in the pipeline is basically dead in the water
yes the cheque might help them recover but their name wont after what they done to the review until now that someone else had to report on this

but yeah you are right we dont really have any real data on how they are doing, we can only infere on the little we know externaly from what GN, LTT and Billet Labs have said

they where going noware anyway the only reason they exist at all is because LMG did the inital review 

no such thing as bad press and all that 

 

[trustmebro16]

1 minute ago, Elinzar said:

a company that small (2 guys afaik) that is basically stalled with nothing in the pipeline is basically dead in the water
yes the cheque might help them recover but their name wont after what they done to the review until now that someone else had to report on this

but yeah you are right we dont really have any real data on how they are doing, we can only infere on the little we know externaly from what GN, LTT and Billet Labs have said

yeah theyre SOOO dead in the water 

[Elinzar]

6 minutes ago, trustmebro16 said:

billet has a multi thousand upvoted reddit front page post giving them more virtue signalled exposure and support than the original video ever would. They are doing fine. Had the LTT video been done properly, they mightve sold a few $800 niche waterblocks to some whales. Now they have brand awareness, good will and product sales of their cheaper product lines + compensation from LMG financially covering them for more than just the waterblock loss

meanwhile you guys are acting like 1 UNINTENTIONAL blunder from Lmg in 10 years is unforgivable.

what else do you want from LMG lol? bankrupt themselves so your bloodlust is happy?

they had before GN publication? im not really aware of this one

[RazielKanos]

1 minute ago, kreative said:

I have joined this board 4 years ago and mainly watching HU and LTT for over the last 5 years. You are just salty because people call you out for your ignorant behavior, when the criticism LMG is getting is very valid

How is it fanboyism when linus refuses to test the product on the card it was designed for, but triples down that his test findings were correct? He absolutely deserves to be called out for it.

but you are not the only person posting in this topic. Maybe you haven't noticed all the rage baiting, rude behavior, trolling and throwing fals accusations by account that all have been created within the lat 8 hours.

You have LMG Fanboys that claim their God can't be wrong and you havbe GN Fanboys that claim the God can't be wrong.

Both is silly - just my 2 cents