Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ayysub]

20 minutes ago, Legitsu said:

That people can't understand the sheer arrogance of what Steve and gamer Nexus are doing, it boggles the mind let me phrase it to you this way. The arrogance of assuming that you are the sole person on the entire internet, responsible for holding others accountable for things you think they did wrong while simultaneously benefiting from posting those things

 

 

That's not a conflict of interest? where Steve's journalistic principles I don't see them he can demonetize the video all he wants. He's still going to profit from a massive bump and subscriber and comment and views which is going to affect his channel ranking which is going to affect his bottom line. So don't hand us any crap about demonetizing the video and how it's for the greater good ad nauseam

what an immature response. this is like saying, "mind your own business". 

[MotherboardsInThePark]

5 minutes ago, Touch My Hamm said:

The amount of people creating accounts or burner accounts to not folly their mains to say "here is my opinion" to then add nothing of value is crazy. I stick by what I said before. People on both sides appear to be misinterpreting what is meant by each others wording and meanings.

I made this account because I was too lazy to recover my 2013 main account's password since I haven't used it in 3 years. It honestly doesn't matter how new people are or if they're part of the forum community or not. LMG and Lienuts are in the wrong.

[kw10001]

6 minutes ago, TylerD321 said:

I heard it was deez

Deez who?

[filpo]

5 hours ago, filpo said:

And now we got the duo's take on it 

 

Also anyone else realise the traffic that just caught up?

 

3 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Ah yea. Someone did pointed it out to me after.
I tried to search for the link of the video I posted and found none so I thought no one posted it yet.

Turns out the version I found is the cutted 12min version instead of the full 1hr+ podcast.

(Hence why searching for the YT link found none)

Anyway, thanks for calling it out.

Lol it was actually me that posted the HUB full podcast. Us adolescents always want the praise 

[dynastes]

10 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

I would argue that Linus is absolutely telling the truth. Linus said they reached out to pay back for the prototype, which is true! He just conveniently left out the part where he didn't do that until after everyone got upset.

Which, of course, does not constitute lying in any form, does it?  I' assume that you're not serious, because that would be ridiculous.

 

  

1 minute ago, ayysub said:

what an immature response. this is like saying, "mind your own business". 

I find it impressive how @Legitsu keeps fanboying over Linus even after the second GN video. It almost resembles the dentheads in the DSP vortex - not everyone will get that reference, but those who will, shall certainly know what I mean.

[m9x3mos]

1 minute ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

That is just nonsense. They were much more reliable before when they had a 20-30 people team; there is no reason they cannot do it again even without an expensive lab. All they need to do is to give more time to the team to do their job properly.

I think this a key thing they need to do. Just give their staff enough to do the work correctly.
I did have to laugh during a WAN show they were talking about outsourcing accuracy checks on their video to the community as like a "bug bounty" kind of thing.

They just have too much to do and not allowing themselves the time and QA to do it correctly.

This needs to change if they want to be taken seriously with Labs.

Maybe they should colab with Steve on how to do it correctly and take points from his testing methodology and not YOLOing it like Linus has done in the past.

They have some great stuff like Mark bench that they are doing but without proper controls, it is meaningless.

[IrishDiem]

11 minutes ago, Ironman420 said:

It is a long post,

Yes it was but I read it and I agree with pretty much all of it. Tech Jesus turning into Tech Judas grossly undermines the point he was trying to make. 

[Agall]

11 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

This doesn't seem like its done as a business decision at all, Linus has been getting away with stupid crap for a while now, like the backpack warranty incident, he tried to gaslight his audience then, and now he's doing it again by not accepting any blame or publicly apologizing to Billet, or at the least taking down the water block video. LMG needs to focus on video quality and fix the errors before rushing to put up videos, if Linus wants his company to be taken seriously then he needs to take the data in the content seriously.

 

GN says himself in the first video about this, there aren't any friends to be made by being objective other companies, and the risk is upsetting other companies close to LMG and causing them to not want to work with GN. There isn't anything to win and Steve clearly pissed off a lot of fanboys, those fans that might have bought GN merch might not now and defend LMG instead.

Then IMO LTT needs to slow down on videos if they can't handle a restructuring while making daily content, I'm sure they can do it as they still have merch sales and other tech channels.

 

Slowing down = less profits, or potentially going negative. Plenty of the community has been unaware of the QA issues in LTT videos since I imagine a substantial major of the 10M subscribers that LTT has aren't seasoned and experienced hardware enthusiasts/professionals, or have the attention to detail or even care when relaxing and enjoying a Youtube video.

 

Now the problem they're going to run into is GN's video. That's going to force their hand to do things they've been obviously avoiding for a while. Designing effective formal QA processes is NOT easy and takes a lot of time to get right. There's not only time but complacency issues that arise when doing so, since attention to detail and compliance are very hard things, if not possible sometimes, to teach employees.

 

Ideally QA processes are designed and implemented BEFORE there's an incident. In this case, a bunch have just been thrown at LTT/LMG because of GN. I'm not saying GN did anything wrong, clearly LTT/LMG are in the wrong, and GN is just pointing it out.

[Reclus]

3 minutes ago, Touch My Hamm said:

The amount of people creating accounts or burner accounts to not folly their mains to say "here is my opinion" to then add nothing of value is crazy. I stick by what I said before. People on both sides appear to be misinterpreting what is meant by each others wording and meanings.

Talk about nothing to add to the topic... 

[litchis_argyle]

As casual fan of LTT watching from his NCIX days this is an eye opening. I didn’t really watch his videos to get detail tech reviews but gave him the Benefit of the doubt that his information was valid now I can’t really take any of his videos seriously due to the amount of mistakes in his videos. This highlights either incompetence, laziness or staff that are overworked.

I normally watch/read multiple tech reviews on products before making a purchase now Linus will be off that list.

Had his initial response to this was one of acceptance and contrition then I would be happy to give the organisation as second chance but is doubling down holds us all in contempt.

 

[DaveRaz]

1 minute ago, kw10001 said:

Deez who?

Deez Nuts

[harls]

1 minute ago, VisibleXela said:

There are multiple people in this thread saying things like "maybe they agreed beforehand." I didn't take it that way either, but apparently it's a common interpretation. Makes me wonder if it was phrased ambiguously for a reason.

Linus never set a timeline saying when it was agreed to or even if LMG and Billet agreed or just LMG agreed they would need to pay.  

[Reavantos]

nevermind, i can only take so many random threats in a day.
good day everyone!

 

[Legitsu]

19 minutes ago, LinusTechLies said:

I don't think you understand what opinion means here. Me calling you a poopy head is a opinion. What Steve presented was cold hard facts backed up with actually evidence. Thats not a opinion.

Nonsense scraping your competitors content for things that you can edit and cherry pick to make your point is an opinion and bad journalistic form

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SomeSin said:

Why should he reach out for a comment? Steve is doing what reporter should do - he reports on the issue, that's what it looks like. Not the "bothsideism" when NASA expert should be joined by flat-earth believer for "balanced" approach.

Because that is what reporters do. He done it for all his other exposé's what's different about this one?

[kw10001]

Just now, DaveRaz said:

Deez Nuts

 My work here is done

 

[YoungBlade]

2 minutes ago, kw10001 said:

Deez who?

Dietz, the hurricane lantern company, clearly.

 

[InvaderMig]

7 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

Unless I missed something, Linus said nothing that wasn't the truth, he just left out the parts where it makes him look bad.

https://old.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/

 

That is the statement from the company.  LTT did not contact them for reimbursement until after GN put out the video.  Linus made it seem that if GN would have reach out they would have known that they were in the process of resolving it, which is a lie according to the company.  The company was ghosted by linus as far as a response to reimbursement until after GNs vid.  Which makes linus full of shit.

[SetOutMode]

I feel like a little kid who’s parents are about to get divorced and can’t understand why mommy and daddy are fighting.

 

Steve absolutely should have reached out privately. However, that doesn’t change the fact that many of his points about the data are all valid.

 

Many of the points falls back to the pace of the upload cadence… everyone in both sides knows that the cadence should slow down… but it can’t slow down because that cadence is needed to keep the lights on… so then the other option is more people to support the upload cadence, which requires more money and thus more videos… it seems like kind of a spiral. Hopefully the new CEO can find some harmony between quantity and quality. 

 

I was all on board for TMB. A warranty is only as good as the company that stands behind them, just because the fine print doesn’t spell out everything exactly doesn’t mean it isn’t any good… just like having the warranty spelled out doesn’t mean that a company will honor it. 
 

I think Linus and Steve just need to sit down and have a beer and hash this shit all out away from the cameras. 

[Vilacom]

Don't know why I'm typing this cause it'll just get lost in the hundred responses that will go up as soon as its posted but just wanted my thoughts out so here we go.

Is this a bad look for LTT, yes, is this also disingenuous for GN, 100%.

"We demonetized this video"  like demonetizing a video that as of right now has in excess of 10x the number of views as the vast majority of the other videos on his channel and more than 5x the views of their big AMD tour/documentary has anything to do with how much they benefit from it.  Sure they lose some youtube income but have massive gains from the sheer amount of attention the video gets, not to mention doing almost the entire presentation surrounded by the merch he sells.  To be clear, go ahead and make money off of it, you're going to dramatically benefit from something like this no matter what, but retending that demonetizing the video makes this somehow no benefit to him would have immediately made me skeptical of his messaging and presentation if that already wasn't how I was feeling because this is a person doing a "review"(really a takedown video but w/e) of their direct competitor in the space.  No it doesn't matter how chummy they've been in the past, if Steve has done excellent reporting work on things like artesian builds or newegg(a company that was literally stealing from large numbers of customers that Steven then gave his platform to for the opportunity explain things, something elected not to do in this piece) This is him attacking a direct competitor, so I will treat it with the exact same skepticism as I would treat Intel releasing a 45 minute video talking about how AMD or Apple is using deceptive marketing when it comes to their new products.  Spending nearly what, 20 minutes pointing out every error they could find in every video?  Jesus really?  Come's across as super petty since again, you're attacking your direct competitor.    

He should have reached out for comment, is he obligated to?  Nope sure isn't, and could it give LTT time to respond or do something that makes the video less valid?  Maybe, but what is his goal, is the goal for things to get better in the space or is his goal to get publicity for a hit piece on a large competitor?  Isn't his stated goal to make the video become invalid?  Giving the person you are reporting on the chance to add input is what makes people actually take you seriously, and its what could have made this Billet situation actually more clear and not the shitshow its become.  Why would it have hurt the video to include statements from both Billet and LTT over the situation, could it have done anything other than help Billet?  What's the downside?  What's the goal of the video?

The billet thing is an issue with regards to the prototype being auctioned specifically.  It's hard to believe LTT was acting with actual malice but still very unacceptable that so many balls could be dropped that an item that the company was asked to be returned made its way to an auction table.  That aside, this idea that they should have redone the testing and made sure that all the results were perfect misses the entire point of the conclusion.  The conclusion was $800 water blocks are not worth it no matter what.  Ek blocks are considered overpriced at $400, you can get alphacool which seem to be considered top of the line for $200, and lets not forget that basically all watercooling is just not worth the cost if you at all care about cost to performance so redoing tests on a product that the only reason you should ever consider is if money is absolutely no factor in your purchasing decision and you just want a massive piece of copper to look cool in your PC.  It's like a Rolex or an Hermes handbag, there is no world where those purchases ever make sense financially, the only reason to spend the money is so you can feel good about spending the money for whatever reason.  Reviewing or even testing an $800 water block is always going end on "Don't buy an $800 water block for any reason unless you already have literally the best computer money can buy and you think it would look cooler with an all copper water block".  Copper isn't magical, Billet has not found some new way to manipulate the laws of thermodynamics, every major manufacturer of watercooling parts knows about copper's thermal properties and still doesn't use it like this.  It's not a serious product and pretending that would change in some massive way because the performance might have been better on a different graphics card is just crazy, go buy a high quality air cooler and then buy a steamdeck with the $720 you just saved, you'll be much better off.

Finally, did he honestly complain about youtube comments being shitty?  Has he never read his own comments section?  Or literally any comments section anywhere ever in the history of the internet existing and before then the opinion/editorial section of any newspaper?  Oh my god, its hard to cut through bad data as a reviewer?  How awful! That's an entirely new issue that only exists because LTT made mistakes in videos!  GN is the only ones that have to deal with bad faith viewers making crappy comments on videos!  Like it takes about 5 second looking in the comments of that video complaining about shitty communities to find GN faithful making all kinds of bad faith arguments and bad takes about LTT. 

So to sum up, does LTT have issues with accuracy, yes, though in general I'd say it has not dramatically effected their conclusions in any situation I've looked at.  Like yeah, that 4090 graph was incorrect, but would have correcting it made a significant difference in what the conclusion about the 4090's value?  Not really.  Is the Billet issue bad, yes and they need to correct it, but as above, it doesn't change the fact that any company banking on an $800 waterblock as their primary product wont be a company for very long, and if his goal was to actually get a really accurate picture of what's going on between the companies with the situation then reaching out for comment from both places and putting those responses in the video would have been a better use of time than spending so much listing data errors that probably didn't dramatically change anyone's experience with a product.  But ultimately pretending this video isnt a massive windfall for them and whining about people in the community just is a huge hit to any other message he's trying to push.  LTT will hopefully improve with regards to errors and data, and I hope there is an actual resolution between them and Billet, but GN really showed some bad colors in this as well.   Here's an idea, everyone listen to Linus and dont ever only watch one review of a product before making a purchasing decision.  There we go, problem solved.   

 

[dcpdev]

The irony of Linus crying about Steve not reaching out first, while delivering proof why it is not always journalistic best practice to reach out before a release. Quickly shooting that mail before responding, just so you can give another spin to it... That's just disgusting and underhanded.

 

Unless it turns out Steve and billet just made up a huge conspiracy together, I'm done being gaslit... 

[Calzz]

2 minutes ago, ImWilly said:

I have watched LTT over a decade ago, back when I started college

 

It's quite sad for LTT response after Gamers Nexus pointing out the flaw / small misstep that his team has accumulated all these years and instead of apologize, he defend his teams and himself. Especially the water block for 3090 that they janky test on 4090, then claim it got lost and not return to the startup company that develop it, then auction it, which is frankly disgusting (pardon my French). 

His teams do talk about the extremely fast pace and not enough time to have a retrospective over interview a year ago, and it seems it finally caught up to them

 

And I have purchased some of their merch, for the first time this year as show of support (both before and during lime day), I can only hope they can learn from this mistake and be better 

It is really sad and I started watching them in college as well.

 

I think that the video with the block wasnt made in bad faith about it and that it very possibly could of been a miscommunication and they auctioned it which should of never happened but honestly could of been a mistake. Whats the biggest problem to me about it is the responses after the fact both to the company itself and more so to the public about the company.

I think that clearly that fast pace has been shown now doesnt work and isnt ok and they need to address that and fix it going foward and that outcome will be the make or break moment for a lot of fans.

[Radium_Angel]

15 minutes ago, Nachmanowicz said:

We're all on LTT forum here, I suppose we're all fans here

I am on the forum to help folks with IT issues. I do not watch LTT videos (for reasons that have nothing to do with accuracy or lack thereof) and I am not a fan of them, or their video style. Just throwing that out there that we can be on the forum and not be fans (same holds true for me on the GN network/videos)

[ScoggsUK]

20 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

How, on god's green flat earth, is factually reporting on something that actually factually happened (and LMG has neglected to dispute and, if anything, has confirmed that the story is true) not "reporting on fact?"

It's conjecture, it's GN's opinion of what has happened and has gotten only one side of the story at that point. It appears that it was sold auction, but do GN and Billet know at that point the video is released that it's been sold, no they don't. The only two parties that know are the purchaser and seller. Its incorrect to call it fact. 

[Cosmic Emotion]

8 minutes ago, Ironman420 said:

 “You chose the way of the hero. And they found you amusing for a while, the people of this city. But the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, and die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will hate you.” 

 

Noone questions the things Linus has done over the years but, you have to admit, this is a VERY bitter situation. I understand that Linus is going through a rough time right now and that's for the best. If Spiderman was a thief and a liar, (and unfortunately this is exactly what has happened here whether by accident or intentionally) ,you have to admit, the line wouldn't hold any water. I put the nouns in bold italics so everyone realizes how serious this is. You might not understand it, but you are directly affected by this.

 

Please, people, if YOU don't hold Linus accountable he's heading for a very bad future and noone here wants that.