Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[RichardBirch]

14 minutes ago, joeygreco1985 said:

 

I will say that I figured that was standard Youtube creator practice since I see other YouTube channels doing the asterisk thing a lot too (Cathode Ray Dude as an example off the top of my head). But the difference with LMG is they have the resources to go back and fix the errors relatively quick, and they should be doing it. 

 

Currently they don't have the resources - a number of staff members have gone on record saying that they do not have enough time to get videos right. That isn't good enough.

 

LMG are influencers for current products. The can cause (or deny) hundreds of thousands or potentially millions of dollars in sales based on their content. This is why they do what they do, and why they are as big as they are; it's why they need to have accurate unbiased information. This in turn feeds back to the issues of being dismissive of a product without testing it properly, using incorrect test results, or not taking the time to correct factually incorrect content. Any one of these can have a marked impact on the sales of a product.

 

Regarding CRD, they're not trying to sell you a 5x CD changer from 1994 ^{(even if you do end up looking on eBay for one because why not...)}

[RevengeofProfKatz]

41 minutes ago, japers said:

Its a well-established, fundamental pillar of journalism to reach out to a party you're making accusations of or to an offending party when covering a news story. Even the most local of local newspaper journalists do this. Let alone an outlet with a following with size of GN. GN made a choice to do this. Theyre not in the clear here either.

 

No, its not. It is not legally, or morally, or otherwise required for a journalist to contact someone they are doing a story on of this type, when the evidence has clearly been laid out there across multiple LTT videos etc, and is considered public knowledge. This GN story was not some opinionated hit piece full of libel accusations (in other words, not a Linus unboxing or review video or some clown in a LTT lab making disparaging remarks against HU on video for public consumption).
 

And this sword cuts both ways. The courtesy Linus, and you evidently, expected from GN, is the very same one he/LTT does not expend towards the very upstart companies he tends to damage in product coverage, when he does his "product libel" coverage, constantly disparaging products.

Per the IPSO (independent press standards organization):
 

Quote

It could be quite surprising to open a newspaper and see that an article has been written about you – but depending on the nature of the story, a newspaper may be entitled to publish without contacting you beforehand.
 

This is because the Editors’ Code of Practice, the set of rules which IPSO enforces, does not state that journalists must contact every individual or company before publication of every story.
 

If the article is reporting on factual information that is already in the public domain, such as a recent court case or comments made publicly on social media, not contacting someone before the article is published is highly unlikely to be a breach of our rules.

You will also find this very same guideline is applied in the RCFP etc.

 

 

42 minutes ago, japers said:

Him drawing the distinction is very clear to any rational-thinking adult that its about making it clear it wasn't sold for the benefit of LMG's bottom line, and was instead auctioned for charity. Theres a very very clear ethical canyon between the two and thats whats being highlighted here. Its important that people don't think they sold it and pocketed the cash. Its also important that people don't jump to the sheer volume of conclusions that have been jumped to regarding this entire situation.

Assholes, career criminals, corrupt politicians, and companies often caught practicing questionable ethics etc, do things for charity all the time, to make it look like they are doing great things. Its great for PR. At the end of the day, something that should not have been sold by Linus/LTT, was, intentional or not (and I find it very hard to believe it was not at this point). Either way, LTT/Linus did not actually do their best to get it back and make good on it. They know who the buyer was. They did not do their best to get the item back, since it was an illegal sale.

[Reclus]

1 minute ago, RockerBug17 said:

This entire thread is full of mind readers. Mind readers that want blood, for some reason. LMG wronged Billet. They made good on that mistake to Billet's satisfaction. What more could LMG do?

Think before they speak? Don't deflect to people pointing out the obvious? Address the issue in accordance to what they were preaching and for a long time practicing? Use the criticism as a topic of conversation  on WAN and spring multiple videos on how they are improving and fixing the mistake? Like they have been some time ago? Don't ever say "trust me bro", or "we threw money at it and I don't care?" Don't hold every other company (Anker) to a standard they are not holding themselves to? Don't double down on an extremely unprofessional review? Don't be arrogant when talking about other people's product when your  own conduct really leaves a lot to desire? Don't respond only in your own corner of the internet filled with people that are absolute fanboys? Especially since all you mistakes have been very public and the consequences of those mistakes where very public for people not under your employment?

Or maybe the very basic: Be the LTT everyone watched and enjoyed. Not the one where the bottom line and the push forward is the only goal. 

Steve was right. This community has turned into an absolute echo chamber where people are blindly defending grievous behaviours. The amount of people that have created their accounts here just to remind LTT that it is risking alienating the very core that has seen this company rise from it's NCIX days should be a clear enough warning sign. So far it just looks terrible.

[doncerdo]

17 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

Linus, 

 

Just subbed to post on this. 

 

The problem is you and let me explain:

 

1. Your narcism, ego and self-righteousness are killing the brand you have worked your ass off to create and maintain. 

 

2. You are alienating everyone from your wife, to Luke, to all those who work at LMG, to your community, by always having the last word and standing your ground. 

 

3. You've become so out of touch with reality that you are building people and companies to tear them down. 

 

Killing of you brand's capital is bad business. Being tone deaf is bad business. Not listening to those who wish you to make things better is bad for business. 

 

If you were burning yourself down alone, fine. But your actions affect the livelihoods of 100+ souls and their families within LMG. Your reckless behavior is damaging the livelihood of people outside your company that also have families. But in your self-contained narcissistic bubble, you only think about how it affects you. In any other company, you would have been fired by now. 

 

Me, me me. That's your problem. One that in years past, coaching would be the recommendation. Today, you really need an intervention and professional help. You are way beyond repair. Ethics, moral compass and being truthful are out the window because you are so self-contained in your bubble of righteousness that no one, again, not even your wife or Luke can knock you out of it. They maneuver their way around your illness. 

 

100+ forum pages, downvotes on YT and trolling on a new scale on X shows the scale of the issue. Don't solve your personal issues "for the community" at large, do it for your employees and their families. Self destruct by yourself, don't drag people who love the work they do to your chasm. 

 

GN held an attempt of an intervention, you, as an addict of your narcism reject it and try to justify yourself. No different than any other person with an addiction. Hope you get the help you need. Others literally depend on you not being ill. 

 

tl;dr: you are addicted to your narcissistic ways, with that, you are destroying the very thing that pays LMG's bills: trust. By not caring to recognize your mistakes just to prove you are right, you are endangering the livelihoods of 100s of families. You are an addict and need help. 

[RockerBug17]

12 minutes ago, kdawgmaster said:

You say this entire thread is full of mind readers and go on to say that Billet is satisfied with the outcome. The more likely scenario is that they excepted the likely outcome and would still prefer that they had their prototype.

True. However, that does not mean they are dissatisfied with whatever LMG offered them. The fact that they came to terms means Billet is satisfied. And if they aren't, then that's on them.

[Schmuckford]

I feel like most people are missing the point of this video completely and are focusing on one side of the extreme or the other; either saying LTT did nothing wrong and everyone makes mistakes and GN is only doing this to hurt a competitor, or that LTT is horrible and actively willing to destroy a small company for profit with no remorse. I don't believe either of these things, though I am more on the GN side as his main points were included but seemingly glossed over by the community at large.

 

The issues with the benchmark/review mistakes isn't necessarily that they happened in the first place. As Linus said, this is a new process for them that they are getting down and they will inevitably make mistakes. Where this goes from making an honest mistake to being unethical is in how these mistakes are being handled. LMG seems dead set on having a video a day regardless, which doesn't leave room for removing a video that is found to contain major errors. Simply putting an asterisk or a pinned comment is not nearly enough in the examples in the GN video. These videos should have been removed and re-uploaded with correct information, both in the graphs and the recorded dialogue. If you are worried about spreading misinformation, giving consumers the wrong idea or guidance, and accurately recording the performance of a product, then that choice should have been obvious. The fact that Linus has responded the way he has, in that he would rather save on labor costs and refuse to allow the time to make meaningful corrections to found mistakes in the video itself before the initial upload shows to me and I assume many others where Linus's priorities lie, in that getting a video out the door in whatever shape is more important than representing things accurately and clearly. That, is my main concern as it is, in my opinion, not the right attitude when entering a space reliant on accurate data and testing.

 

I don't believe that LTT purposely sold the prototype with full acknowledgement that they had been requested to return it. I truly believe it was a miscommunication and was an accident. I also believe Linus truly had the consumer's best interest in mind with his initial reasoning in that, in that state at that price, nobody should buy it. I would tend to agree with that sentiment. With that said, that does not lower the level of how unacceptable this whole situation was, from the initial testing on incompatible hardware to the selling of the prototype. The company has grown to a size that makes this miscommunication way too easy to have happen, and makes it harder to pin point a single point of correction that would make it never happen again.

 

Here is where my conjecture comes in; LMG has been trying to keep up with it's self-imposed video schedule and been on a hiring spree to maintain it. I believe this is the wrong approach and we are currently seeing the ramifications for it. LTT has over 100 employees, who all have bills, families, things that LTT is now responsible for providing for with their career. That weight is a lot to bear for any business owner/leader. I imagine that's why spending the extra ~$500 in labor cost to re-test that prototype was as easy a decision as it was for Linus to make. But Linus has put himself in this position and in my opinion exasperated the issues with all of the additional hiring. From previous WAN shows describing how Linus had to teach new camera operators how to successfully shoot shots, I can only imagine how much additional training is needed for every new hire in every department they are hired for. Throwing additional manpower at a deadline is never going to work unless they are properly trained, whether that's direct proper training or what appears to be happening now in they are training by fire by having to learn by making mistakes. I believe that instead of hiring writers, camera operators, and endless number of other rolls, they could have hired fewer people and allowed themselves to slow down production and make sure things are right before the initial upload instead of forcing a video out every day regardless of the quality or ramifications. All this additional hiring, to me as an outside viewer, has both decreased the quality and increased the number of issues/mistakes/corrections needing to be made. And as I said before, mistakes are fine if they are properly addressed. But LMG does not appear to be interested in properly addressing mistakes.

 

To end my rambling, I'll just say this. I'm thankful for Steve's video for pointing out what I've felt for well over a year now. It's come to the point where any interesting LTT video I watch will inevitably come with levels of disappointment. The first level is the transition of what the thumbnail and title imply vs the actual concept for the video. The second level is when they either don't have what they need or miss important information or steps needed to accomplish the concept of the video. The third level is the half-baked solution that is typically involved just to get the video to some sort of conclusion point in the time they allotted themselves to do it. This is the pattern I've noticed and it's been extremely tiring and frustrating to see more and more over time. This Friday's WAN show might be the last LTT content I consume going forward, which will be met with frustration as Linus said he won't be directly addressing any of this there.

[RockerBug17]

13 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

No, this isn't all speculation and mind reading.

Some people are doing that.

 

But other people are discussing the public facts of the situation.  And seeking clarification for things.

This is a company, not a family. They tell us what they want and nothing more. They've made a statement. The fact that some aren't happy with it is their individual problem.

[Lupul]

Reaction is once again a missed opportunity to do the right thing.

 

Maybe it was not a good time, maybe other things happen that could ask for priority in your life. That's fine, take your time and say something when you've had the time to look into it and formulate a proper reply. 

 

If it happens a lot that people tell you you're wrong, looking into it might be a better strategy than saying you already said something about how you're right... 

 

Mistakes happen, nobody is expecting anything incredible. A sincere apology would be good, acknowledging the massive mistake in selling somebody's prototype would be better and then moving on to improving things would be best.

 

 

[FadedSpark]

14 minutes ago, kdawgmaster said:

Employers in Canada cant ban the disclosure of ones own income. i can talk to whom ever i want, withint or out of the company and say how much i get paid.

In BC, they can fire you for it however. It's not a protected action.

 

The fact that it's in the handbook is questionable.

[__Dreamer__]

Daaamn i had no idea was this bad

[E-Waster]

4 minutes ago, doncerdo said:

Linus, 

 

Just subbed to post on this. 

 

The problem is you and let me explain:

 

1. Your narcism, ego and self-righteousness are killing the brand you have worked your ass off to create and maintain. 

 

2. You are alienating everyone from your wife, to Luke, to all those who work at LMG, to your community, by always having the last word and standing your ground. 

 

3. You've become so out of touch with reality that you are building people and companies to tear them down. 

 

Killing of you brand's capital is bad business. Being tone deaf is bad business. Not listening to those who wish you to make things better is bad for business. 

 

If you were burning yourself down alone, fine. But your actions affect the livelihoods of 100+ souls and their families within LMG. Your reckless behavior is damaging the livelihood of people outside your company that also have families. But in your self-contained narcissistic bubble, you only think about how it affects you. In any other company, you would have been fired by now. 

 

Me, me me. That's your problem. One that in years past, coaching would be the recommendation. Today, you really need an intervention and professional help. You are way beyond repair. Ethics, moral compass and being truthful are out the window because you are so self-contained in your bubble of righteousness that no one, again, not even your wife or Luke can knock you out of it. They maneuver their way around your illness. 

 

100+ forum pages, downvotes on YT and trolling on a new scale on X shows the scale of the issue. Don't solve your personal issues "for the community" at large, do it for your employees and their families. Self destruct by yourself, don't drag people who love the work they do to your chasm. 

 

GN held an attempt of an intervention, you, as an addict of your narcism reject it and try to justify yourself. No different than any other person with an addiction. Hope you get the help you need. Others literally depend on you not being ill. 

 

tl;dr: you are addicted to your narcissistic ways, with that, you are destroying the very thing that pays LMG's bills: trust. By not caring to recognize your mistakes just to prove you are right, you are endangering the livelihoods of 100s of families. You are an addict and need help. 

This.

[RevengeofProfKatz]

1 hour ago, ToboRobot said:

If you statement is "literally a fundamental pillar" of a profession, surely you can provide a link that reinforces your opinion.

 

That is all it was, his opinion. The IPSO and RCFP do not require journalist to reach out to the subjects of a story when all the evidence provided in the story is factual and accessible public knowledge, which in this case, is, given it is spread out across multiple LTT videos. When journalist do reach out in a situation like this, it is done as a courtesy only. The exact same courtesy that Linus/LTT do not expend towards others they damage.

[dismuter]

17 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

I subscribed to the forums just to be able to reply to that.

 

I don't think that that was the response that the community expected. Steve has carefully prepared and built a very strong narrative that is damning for LTT/LMG. Do you realize how shocking the Billet Labs part is?

 

If you want to quash this, you basically have 2 options: either strongly debunk his claims (you'd better not miss then), or acknowledge them, swallow your pride, and unequivocally apologize to Billet Labs and the community.

I don't think that there's a nuanced in-between where you stand on your shaky ground and come out ahead.

 

I would suggest consulting your team (and not some yes-men), because that's a tricky communication issue that shouldn't be solved without brainstorming it.

 

Many people don't read the forums, but will have watched Steve's video. You'll have to address it on your channel somehow.

[Tams]

I'd care a lot more if it weren't Gamers Nexus pointing it out.

 

I have an almost impulsive reaction to disregard anything Steve has to say.

[dynastes]

45 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

Not the GN video.
He is referring to a video released by LTT shortly after GN video:

21k likes & 22k dislikes right now.

Review bombing, but on YT.

Isn't viewership not also quite bad on this one? About 500K in this time frame ... I am not tracking these things too closely, but it kind of feels like it. If this will not force a response, I don't know what will.

[kdawgmaster]

1 minute ago, FadedSpark said:

In BC, they can fire you for it however. It's not a protected action.

that would be termination without cause and you would be able to get your severance. Doesnt mean they can out right ban you from saying it.

[coopa]

10 minutes ago, King Podge said:

Because context and right of reply is a very basic fundamental tenant of journalism. Otherwise it’s an opinion piece, not journalism. 

 

i don’t make the rules, i just comment on 2000 page forum threads about them. 

Whether somebody considers YouTube personalities to be journalists (LMG clearly considers their content "entertainment" thus hey some technical inaccuracies don't matter), the right of reply is generally something that journalists do in order to maximize fairness. It hasn't been a legal requirement to give someone a right of reply in the United States since the Fairness Doctrine was eliminated in 1987.

Secondly, not offering the right of reply could make someone consider it a "hit piece". This particularly applies if a publication (print, audio, or video) was grossly misleading, or left out facts to paint a picture.

If Linus' reply was substantive and meaningfully countered what Steve said, or directly and irrefutably countered any of what Steve said, then the lack of right of reply would be a valid point. Instead, Linus posted a milquetoast corporate speak reply that was clearly not based on watching the video. Honestly, if LTT had been given a right of reply, I believe that it would have made the video even more damaging, because Linus is clearly not receptive to improving on the feedback given - instead dismissing it.

 

Lastly, while one might say that best journalistic practices would include right of reply, not giving it does not automatically turn a piece of media from journalism to an opinion piece. Steve commented on the issues with direct citation (clips of videos, actual spec sheets vs specs shown in LTT videos) of the issues at hand. That isn't an opinion. 

[nyanbinary]

19 minutes ago, nyanbinary said:

Remember when Linus banned the talking of wages between employees and had anti-union sentiment?  Biggest red flag from Linus by far. Unions should be a right. An employer should encourage a union because it'll lead to a less toxic and stressful workplace and theoretically make both parties somewhat happy by the compromises they reach.

 

Found where Linus said he would feel "personally offended" if LMG unionized. Treating like a Union is a insult to Linus himself is a bit of egotistical thing to say to be honest. It's not about you, it's about having a good working environment and exercise worker rights.

 

[coonwhiz]

1 minute ago, Tams said:

I'd care a lot more if it weren't Gamers Nexus pointing it out.

 

I have an almost impulsive reaction to disregard anything Steve has to say.

Do you want to elaborate? Steve generally brings receipts, like when he's called out MSI, NewEgg, NZXT and now LTT...

[bramturismo]

5 minutes ago, RockerBug17 said:

True. However, that does not mean they are dissatisfied with whatever LMG offered them. The fact that they came to terms means Billet is satisfied. And if they aren't, then that's on them.

I still think satisfied is an incorrect word for coming to terms.

 

Left with no other option would be better suited. What actions could Billit Labs possibly take against LMG in which they would feel satisfied? Being a start-up, they are pretty much with their backs against the wall.

[RockerBug17]

19 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Doesn't matter if he "pointed out flaws", it doesn't change the fact that having a boss who owns a company will affect impartiality when reviewing similar products; whether greatly or not...and it's not up to LTT to magically decide that the viewers should or shouldn't know for a video that there is that relationship.

 

Would not have changed the video.  Even per Linus' statement here, he focused on the word "sale" instead of "auction"...which has nothing to do with the argument it's just a deflection (and an auction is still a sale).  The money still hasn't been paid to Billet, Linus still trashed Billet in a way that GN found wrong (and as per peoples replies here Linus' rebuttal doesn't seem to change many peoples opinions), and auctioning something off that you already slagged when you don't have permission; the shear amount of utter incompetence that that requires or the level of "miscommunication" that has to happen is to a level that what LMG says about anything should never be trusted then.

 

LMG and only LMG themselves are to blame for this situation.  The views expressed by GN are views that many have expressed here, even in the interview video it's still a view expressed by the employees (in the sense of accuracy).  Linus doesn't get to go on his high horse talking as if GN should have afforded him a phone call to set the record straight; he literally had called Steve out on the Aug 4 WAN show for his lack of "journalistic integrity".  You don't get to insult someone very publicly and expect them to reach out to you for comments; especially when there is a documented trend of people trying to correct the issue and Linus essentially doing "we'll try better" and then effectively doing nothing.

 

It's an utter lack of integrity by Linus to act as thought he Billet is something that only happened once in 10 years, every mistake could be classified as being unique then.  The whole thing is Linus has been making very public statements that are contrary to what evidence is saying; and then calling out GN on the WAN show was likely the final straw where GN couldn't just sit idly by; the whole notion that Linus thinks being friends with someone means they should be given special treatment when it comes to being reported on is a farse (because that is effectively what Linus said in the WAN show, it doesn't matter if he didn't intend it that way it was a public statement).

 

Integrity you say? The person with integrity would have been the bigger man and done what was right no matter the consequence.

 

I'll leave you to decide who lacks integrity. 

[King Podge]

2 minutes ago, coopa said:

Whether somebody considers YouTube personalities to be journalists (LMG clearly considers their content "entertainment" thus hey some technical inaccuracies don't matter), the right of reply is generally something that journalists do in order to maximize fairness. It hasn't been a legal requirement to give someone a right of reply in the United States since the Fairness Doctrine was eliminated in 1987.

Secondly, not offering the right of reply could make someone consider it a "hit piece". This particularly applies if a publication (print, audio, or video) was grossly misleading, or left out facts to paint a picture.

If Linus' reply was substantive and meaningfully countered what Steve said, or directly and irrefutably countered any of what Steve said, then the lack of right of reply would be a valid point. Instead, Linus posted a milquetoast corporate speak reply that was clearly not based on watching the video. Honestly, if LTT had been given a right of reply, I believe that it would have made the video even more damaging, because Linus is clearly not receptive to improving on the feedback given - instead dismissing it.

 

Lastly, while one might say that best journalistic practices would include right of reply, not giving it does not automatically turn a piece of media from journalism to an opinion piece. Steve commented on the issues with direct citation (clips of videos, actual spec sheets vs specs shown in LTT videos) of the issues at hand. That isn't an opinion. 

Except it does and without right of reply the points you made are moot. 

[GoldenSound]

This is a situation with a lot of issues at play, and a heavy mix of major/minor issues, ones with clear causes and others that are likely one-off problems and maybe don't need to be as big of a problem as they are, but for me, the biggest issue has been the response to the concern of accurate testing. 

Saying that spending $500 of time to retest a product because it wouldn't change the conclusion is simply not ok. It just isn't. You either test something properly or don't publish the testing at all. You are not hobbyists, you are a professional media organization who has a duty to fairly assess a manufacturers products and to provide fair and accurate information to viewers.

To be clear, I actually AGREE that the conclusion about value almost certainly wouldn't have changed, but that's besides the point. LMG is a big company, and viewers rely on LMG to provide accurate information. If you do not do that, it brings into question ALL the information you provide. And if it happens consistently, the problem is exacerbated. Even more so if you then say you don't think that's a problem!

I myself produce reviews of audio products which consist of both subjective evaluation AND extensive objective testing, and there have been times where I've been testing stuff and then realized that I'd made a mistake, something was configured wrong, or there was some other issue and it can be REALLY frustrating to spend an entire day or longer testing something only to realize you made an error and need to redo that work.

It doesn't matter if I don't think the conclusion would change, if my mission is to provide accurate and useful data, that's what I'm going to do. If I make a mistake in testing, that sucks, but its my mistake and isn't fair on the viewers or manufacturer if I just publish it KNOWING there is a problem. 

Even if you feel strongly enough that the faulty data doesn't matter, in that situation you just make a video on that basis. Explaining your view with no data and explaining that no data-driven results could change your opinion is MUCH better than providing bad/incorrect data.

It's one thing to catch a mistake after a video goes out, but a video should never ever be published if you KNOW that there is a mistake in the information/data being provided.

Media outlets and reviewers rely on trust. That is built up over time, but can be lost quickly.

If you make a mistake, that's fine, it happens, just fix it.

If you consistently make errors, you will lose trust.

If you then say that you don't think those errors are worthy of your time to fix, you will lose trust 10 times faster because whether you intended it to or not, a significant portion of your audience will read that as "I don't care".

If your current workflow does not allow you to catch and correct mistakes, your workflow has a problem and you need to fix it, it's as simple as that.

[kiska3]

16 minutes ago, Poinkachu said:

Here comes the response from HUB I guess ?.

 

edit reason : Better grammar, maybe ? XD

 

15 minutes ago, joaopt said:

 

this is going to be good

Since it probably got buried in the thread here is the podcast of that:

 

[Tams]

1 minute ago, coonwhiz said:

Do you want to elaborate? Steve generally brings receipts, like when he's called out MSI, NewEgg, NZXT and now LTT...

I find his delivery to be incredibly condescending, self-congratulatory, smug, and most of all dry.

 

I also don't care to watch 45 minutes of that attitude.

 

Now, you may say that that's ad hominem, and it is.  But how a message is delivered does matter, and Steve is one person I have no care to listen to because of that.