Hardware Unboxed Goes on Twitter Rant in Response to LTT Labs Potshots

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Which was never meant to become a public comment... And if they hadn't responded like this, odds are almost no one would have noticed.

What's not public about a public tour? Tours that all sorts of smaller YouTubers have been putting videos out about, including recordings of what the tour guides said? 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

10 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

What's not public about a public tour? Tours that all sorts of smaller YouTubers have been putting videos out about, including recordings of what the tour guides said? 

Never had to give guided tours when your company organizes some event? Loads of people walk around with their phone out recording everything, I must have given tens of hours of tours over the last decade, never saw a video of it pop up on YouTube. So no, if I were him I wouldn't expect it to show up on YouTube unless if someone explicitly asks me for permission to do so.

[IkeaGnome]

6 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

Never had to give guided tours when your company organizes some event? Loads of people walk around with their phone out recording everything, I must have given tens of hours of tours over the last decade, never saw a video of it pop up on YouTube.

We've had it happen. FB and Ista too.

6 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

So no, if I were him I wouldn't expect it to show up on YouTube unless if someone explicitly asks me for permission to do so.

So wait. Unless you had someone sign a NDA you'd expect people to not post that on YouTube? Where they've invited as many big names as they could to LTX? Where being able to put "LTX" in the title is instantly a big bump in views for a smaller channel? 

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

What's not public about a public tour? Tours that all sorts of smaller YouTubers have been putting videos out about, including recordings of what the tour guides said? 

There is a difference with intended audience though, what and how you would say something changes between X group of people versus presentation in front of group versus video for huge group of people to see.

 

Anyone at LTT should expect anything dealing with public people to be filmed or what is said to be spread widely but that doesn't mean everyone there is actually used to that concept and is actively keeping that mindful.

 

What was said would definitely have been different had they been put in front of a camera and told it would be view by the masses, the core differentiator trying to be expressed would still have been said but much differently. May or may not have changed the outcome but either way it is fair to say a tour group isn't really the same thing as intending and knowing every person on earth could or will know what is being said and shown. A lesson one person just learnt about working for a large YouTube company, everyone will know everything eventually.

[Skipple]

57 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

What's not public about a public tour? Tours that all sorts of smaller YouTubers have been putting videos out about, including recordings of what the tour guides said? 

Do you not see the difference in: 

1. A public, scripted, edited video or statement
2. A public response on twitter
3. An off-hand comment on private tour, that so happened to be record

[IkeaGnome]

9 minutes ago, Skipple said:

Do you not see the difference in: 

1. A public, scripted, edited video or statement
2. A public response on twitter
3. An off-hand comment on private tour, that so happened to be record

No. "Let me say something in front of these cameras and assume it'll never make it anywhere."

[Skipple]

5 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

"Let me say something in front of these cameras and assume it'll never make it anywhere."

Right, but how one interprets and reacts to a statement can (and should) be different. There is a distinct difference between a written, thought-out, and refined statement given to a wide audience and something that is said off the cuff to a small group of people that just so happened to be recorded. .

[LAwLz]

On 8/9/2023 at 5:57 PM, leadeater said:

"I don't watch Gamers Nexus videos so I don't know any potential conflict of interest"

"I don't watch LTT videos" *but I'll happily run my mouth and shoot from the hip with little to no information*

 

Seems like a fair assessment of the situation?

Different situations.

 

I do not watch Gamers Nexus and I am not aware of any potential conflicts of interest.

I do not watch LTT in general but in this particular instance, I did and found a conflict of interest.

 

Why are you pretending like I didn't watch this video when I was posting quotes from it? I clearly watched it, and that's why I was made aware of the conflict of interest. You are focusing on the wrong thing in the sentence. The focus shouldn't be whether or not I watch their channels. The focus should be on whether or not I am aware of conflicts of interest, since that is the part that I have an issue with.

 

 

On 8/9/2023 at 5:57 PM, leadeater said:

Gamers Nexus literally consulted with Corsair and JonnyGuru which included testing equipment and testing methodology as well as posting videos about it but this is not a problem however it is when LTT does it?

Stop pretending (strawmanning) that I am fine with what Gamers Nexus did but not OK with what LTT did. I never said I was fine with that. What I said was that I don't know what situation they are in because I haven't watched their videos.

I have however watched LTT's videos about this so I am commenting on that. The fact of the matter is that Seasonic specced their testing equipment and they also had Seasonic sponsor the video about the test equipment. How people can't see this as a potential conflict of interest is beyond me. I am starting to think that maybe people just don't want to see it for what it is. I mean, even the comments made by Linus indicates to me like he thought it was strange as well to have Seasonic as a sponsor for that video, because it ism just like having Intel sponsor a video about their CPU testing that will be done on AMD CPUs would be weird as well. And by weird and strange I mean red flags.

 

 

On 8/9/2023 at 5:57 PM, leadeater said:

Both did and are taking advice from industry brands that are going to be tested and reviewed, only 1 has a conflict of interest? 

I never said only one had a conflict of interest. Stop strawmanning.

Almost your entire post is just "what about Gamers Nexus" when I have made it very clear that I have not seen anything about Gamers Nexus' PSU testing and therefore isn't commenting on that. I am not here to talk about Gamers Nexus. I am here to talk about LTT, the thing this thread is about.

Me saying "I don't know anything about Gamers Nexus's PSU testing" does not mean I give them a free pass if they have a conflict of interest. But unlike Gamers Nexus, I have actually seen videos with LTT's PSU testing, and I commented on the red flags I saw with them. Mainly that it is specced by a PSU manufacturer, which also sponsored them, and Linus tried to brush that off as a good thing when I think it is a very bad thing.

 

Keep sponsors away from review-related things where the sponsor's competitors will be tested.

Don't let Intel sponsor a video about testing equipment (and how they specced it) that will be used to test AMD products.

Don't let Seasonic sponsor a video about testing equipment (and how they specced it) that will be used to test let's say CWT.

I don't think that is such an absurd request to make. 

 

 

On 8/9/2023 at 5:57 PM, leadeater said:

We might finally start getting more data driven reviews of power supply testing with more detailed aspects and you want to actively discredit it before even seeing it. Sure LTT has lots of problems with data presentation and catching data errors/outliers but that doesn't mean that the actual work going on in the background is utterly flawed. Most of the common errors that make it through to videos isn't errors in data either it's errors in graphs and script and B roll etc, all very important things to the video and information trying to be presented but it doesn't undermine the actual data that was gathered during the testing. Personally I think a lot of the problems come from too many cooks in the kitchen, too many people involved with each video and not good enough oversight of the whole process from a single person intimate with every phase who is more likely to actually catch basic errors than someone with basically no involvement with the majority of the video subject and testing. This is supposed to be the "writer" but I'm personally not sure of the exact involvement all the way through.

I agree, or well, I think I agree. I don't really want to say for sure that most of the common errors in videos aren't errors with the data because I don't have enough insight into their current videos to comment on that, but it's probably true.

A lot of the errors I see get brought up on this site can probably be attributed to "too many cooks" though. 

 

< removed, derail >

Edited August 21, 2023 by LogicalDrm

[divito]

Hardware Unboxed's response lines up with a general out-of-touch nature I've gotten from many tech channels these days; pretty disappointed with Hardware Unboxed and will probably avoid from now on.

 

On 8/6/2023 at 9:43 AM, LAwLz said:

Back when I watched them, they constantly did just that.

Like in this video, which is like 90% incorrect information and shows a complete lack of understanding of the fundamentals.

 Living in the past and being ignorant to current events is folly, on top of coming off as a delusional "back in my day" perpetrator.

It'd be like a former teacher you had consistently chiming in on threads: "well I don't know what they've been up to recently because I haven't checked or paid attention, but back when I knew them, they made x, y, z mistake, so that sums up things on my end. Classic Lawlz" Or one of your parents highlighting a childhood mistake or bed wetting or something and that being their main contribution to your character. 

The past shapes us, but it doesn't necessarily define us. As with most things in life, people change, they grow, they evolve. Watching an LTT video from 10 years ago, to 5 years ago, to the present shows exactly that just like a host of other channels.

[AlwaysFSX]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Parasocial relationships.

People feel like they are friends with LTT and as a result, feel like anyone saying anything bad about them is like an attack on their friend. Of course you will defend your friend if you perceive them as being attacked.

There's been a huge uptick in this over the years I've noticed. Anyone and everyone should be able to be constructively criticized, including LMG, but damn if people don't fight tooth and nail over the most irrational things.

[Lomac]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:14 AM, LAwLz said:

All I know is that the testing equipment they will use to test power supplies was "specced by Seasonic" (their words, not mine), and the video where they show off their equipment has a "sponsored by Seasonic" banner in it.

Even if it turns out that their testing is good, doing those things is bad optics and potentially a conflict of interest.

 

Again, I would be very suspicious of an AMD review where Intel was the one paying for the video to be made, and Intel decided which software to use during the tests. I would have much preferred if they had gotten impartial sponsors and help.

I just wanted to say something about this comment.

 

I review cars as a side gig for a fairly large publication.  We're usually sponsored by one manufacturer or another, we're often flown to fancy places around the world to then be wined and dined before being handed the keys to a fancy new car that hasn't been released to the public and told to go race them for a few laps around a famous track, given long term loaners, etc., etc.  At the end of the day, our reviews are completely unbiased and aren't affected by whatever goodwill those manufacturers are showing to us.  Doesn't matter if Lamborghini flies us out to Italy, feeds us wine and pasta, throws us the keys to a new car and opens up Autodromo di Modena for us to track on, because they're still getting an honest review of how good (or bad) the vehicle is regardless of anything else. 

 

I haven't seen anything from LMG to indicate that it would be anything different.