Apparently Nobody Can Get it Right - AMD RX 7600 Launch is ALSO a FAIL

[WallacEngineering]

So now AMD is making an ass of itself as well just like Nvidia just did, changing the embargo dates last minute and Steve from GN thought it was a sloppy mess but Im surprised he didn't see that actually... That part was a very clever move... They clearly waited specifically hear what Nvidia announced the 4060 non-Ti price as.

 

Also the card only has 8GB of VRAM - from the company that is always generous with VRAM... What the Hell...

 

I mean at least the performance is only supposed to compete with the 4060 Non-Ti do maybe 8GB is okay-ish down at this low performance level...?

 

At least they made the right call last minute to drop the price down to $270. Thats extremely cheap for a modern GPU. So at least we have some sort of affordable option now... Even if its performance actually isn't very good... Barely beats the 6600 by less than 10%... Same as Nvidia Yesterday...

 

What the hell is going on here? Why are next gen GPUs failing so hard at low-mid tier? AMD did so well with the flagship 7900-XTX besting the RTX 4080 for a lower price with the XT becoming decent value after the price dropped below $800. Then we have the amazing technical achievement that is the RTX 4090 and at least the 4080 has 16GB of VRAM which is appropriate.

 

I feel bad for everyone who doesn't want to spend multiple thousands of dollars on a top-tier PC because it looks like you guys are just screwed in general now.

 

Lets hope AMD at LEAST has 12GB in the 7600-XT and then 16GB in the 7700 and up. Like Steve said in his video - just wait for July, let these guys battle it out for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

So now AMD is making an ass of itself as well just like Nvidia just did, changing the embargo dates last minute and Steve from GN thought it was a sloppy mess but Im surprised he didn't see that actually... That part was a very clever move... They clearly waited specifically hear what Nvidia announced the 4060 non-Ti price as.

 

Also the card only has 8GB of VRAM - from the company that is always generous with VRAM... What the Hell...

 

I mean at least the performance is only supposed to compete with the 4060 Non-Ti do maybe 8GB is okay-ish down at this low performance level...?

 

At least they made the right call last minute to drop the price down to $270. Thats extremely cheap for a modern GPU. So at least we have some sort of affordable option now... Even if its performance actually isn't very good... Barely beats the 6600 by less than 10%... Same as Nvidia Yesterday...

 

What the hell is going on here? Why are next gen GPUs failing so hard at low-mid tier? AMD did so well with the flagship 7900-XTX besting the RTX 4080 for a lower price with the XT becoming decent value after the price dropped below $800. Then we have the amazing technical achievement that is the RTX 4090 and at least the 4080 has 16GB of VRAM which is appropriate.

 

I feel bad for everyone who doesn't want to spend multiple thousands of dollars on a top-tier PC because it looks like you guys are just screwed in general now.

 

Lets hope AMD at LEAST has 12GB in the 7600-XT and then 16GB in the 7700 and up. Like Steve said in his video - just wait for July, let these guys battle it out for a while.

 

 

 

 

I really hope the 7800 xt is better. Or even the 7700 xt 

 

Or even the Arc 970

 

or HECK even the 3Dfx VOODOO

[jaslion]

Somehow a gtx 1080ti is still a relevant card

 

This is such a weird gpu cycle where the last generation stuff is just a flat out better buy compared to next gen and it's not even close here.

[SignatureSigner]

5 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Somehow a gtx 1080ti is still a relevant card

 

This is such a weird gpu cycle where the last generation stuff is just a flat out better buy compared to next gen and it's not even close here.

1080ti is a beast

 

[xAcid9]

What really failed about this is RDNA3. 

 

Similar configuration to 6650XT

 

 

Similar raster performance to 6650XT

 

 

Similar RT performance to 6650XT

 

 

Just slightly lower power consumption compare to 6650XT

 

Where is the generational improvement? Only in AV1 encoding support and better overclocking potential? 

 

[WallacEngineering]

28 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Somehow a gtx 1080ti is still a relevant card

 

This is such a weird gpu cycle where the last generation stuff is just a flat out better buy compared to next gen and it's not even close here.

 

Well the good news with the 7600 at least - the ONE thing they got right over Nvidia - is the price and the fact they did NOT shoot themselves in the foot with a narrow BUS that ruins performance at 1440p.

 

So as professor Farnsworth says - "Its Good News Everyone" - you can sort-of play 1440p without performance loss for just $270!

 

... So long as it doesn't use more than 8GB of VRAM... FFS...

[jaslion]

2 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Where is the generational improvement? Only in AV1 encoding support and better overclocking potential? 

I think they are pitching it against the rx6600 but then again normally a new generation means you get AT LEAST the next tier up performance from the card it's replacing from the last generation. Here it just isn't happening at all.

 

Not even 5 years ago we had the usualy next tier up and then some performance gains as per usualy an now we can be lucky to have basically any at all

[WallacEngineering]

4 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

What really failed about this is RDNA3.

 

Well the good news is that comparison isn't actually linear just yet, although it is weird just how close they are - thanks for pointing that out...

 

So for it to be a linear comparison we would have to wait for the XT version of the 7600 and then the 7650-XT version of that.

 

The 50 part will probably be the same as last time - just a higher power target and a bit of built-in OC. But the XT version will certainly add in some more cores (and hopefully some more VRAM)

[jaslion]

Just now, WallacEngineering said:

 

Well the good news with the 7600 at least - the ONE thing they got right over Nvidia - is the price and the fact they did NOT shoot themselves in the foot with a narrow BUS that ruins performance at 1440p.

 

So as professor Farnsworth says - "Its Good News Everyone" - you can sort-of play 1440p without performance loss for just $270!

 

... So long as it doesn't use more than 8GB of VRAM... FFS...

270$ is a lot for the entry mid range card.

 

If we go by raw inflation numbers this should have been a 230$ ish card.

 

Hell this isn't even a correct tier card at all. This is basically what a 7500 should be just like the 4060ti should be a 4050ti.

 

Because it wasn't even 5 years ago when this tier of card was MARKETED for 1440p gaming at good fps. Now these have been reduced to 1080p and they aren't even that good at it either.

[WallacEngineering]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

270$ is a lot for the entry mid range card.

 

If we go by raw inflation numbers this should have been a 230$ ish card.

 

Hell this isn't even a correct tier card at all. This is basically what a 7500 should be just like the 4060ti should be a 4050ti.

 

I guess when you look at it that way it does make a bit more sense.

 

I just thought it was a decent price because the 4060-Ti is a massive $400 and at the very least this gives us a decent affordable card.

 

They should have split the difference and gone with Linus's suggestion of $249.99. would have been the perfect middle ground.

 

Who cares what they advertise it for - we all know better than that.

[WallacEngineering]

I guess the only way you can justify this new card is if you think of it as a modern-day version of the old RX 580.

 

Think about it - remember a couple years ago - just before the scalpers came along - and if you wanted a cheap, entry-level card for like $200 you were told "Grab an RX 580, still a decent card and has 8GB of VRAM"?

 

Im guessing the price will probably fall a bit more to $250 for the 7600 over time, it just makes sense.

 

So there you have it - the 7600 is the new RX 580. A much newer card with hugely more performance and still 8GB of VRAM. Only this time its brand new instead of last-gen for $50 more.

 

I mean does that make sense to anybody else? Makes sense in my head at least. Still doesn't make the card good but at least it makes a tiny bit more sense this way...

 

You know what I mean? Its gonna become THAT card pretty quickly if you ask me.

[Jon-Slow]

I've always said this, AMD are just red NVIDIA. They're happy to sit at the side and eat the crumbs Nvidia leaves behind. You say that the 7900 XTX card beats the 4080, but I see a card with half the feature sets of the 4080 that can only beat it if you turn off 4 years old graphical options that are now implemented in every game and if you don't turn of the RT then the 7900XTX is 2 gen behind. Regardless of how you personally feel about RT, it's in every game now. Yet this card was priced very similar to 4080 and not cheap enough to represent its shortcomings and missing features(ai, ML, productivity,...). People give AMD a pass because of how horrible Nvidia is but AMD are no better, they're just not as good at the game and have never been able to corner the market. Same thing with their CPUs, things were supposed to get cheaper and be more affordable, but now that they make competitive processors they still price them the same or more expensive than Intel.

 

This is why they wait for Nvidia to price their cards so they can hide behind Nvidia while doing the exact same thing. Yeah, good job, they put more Vram in their cards. But then they "sponsor" games and then somehow those games end up having terrible texture streaming and poor optimisations while forcing you to only have FSR as the only image reconstruction option.

[xAcid9]

3 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

So for it to be a linear comparison we would have to wait for the XT version of the 7600 and then the 7650-XT version of that.

Naming doesn't mean much.

 

According to AMD, RDNA3 bring IPC improvement, Gen2 RT engine, Gen2 Infinity Cache

So with the same core, memory subsytem configuration and clock speed, RDNA3 should bring noticeable improvement over RDNA2 at but it definitely doesn't show here with 7600 vs 6650xt. There is no "IPC" increase at all from what I've seen so far, there's no generational improvement except AV1 encoding and higher overclock ceiling.

 

Similar power consumption between both card as well. 

 

2 hours ago, Jon-Slow said:

Regardless of how you personally feel about RT, it's in every game now.

Let me see..

no RT and DLSS in: 
Honkai Rail Star
Starship Trooper Extermination
Age Of Wonder 4

IllWill
Dead Island 2

Miasma Chronicles
Wartales
Ravenswatch 
Barotrauma

Fabledom

Warhammer 40k Boltgun
Dredge

 

No RT in :
Smalland 
Great War Western Front
 

All these are recent games, from 2 months old to a week old. I could name a lot more if you want. 

 

[WallacEngineering]

2 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Naming doesn't mean much.

 

According to AMD, RDNA3 bring IPC improvement, Gen2 RT engine, Gen2 Infinity Cache

So with the same core, memory subsytem configuration and clock speed, RDNA3 should bring noticeable improvement over RDNA2 at but it definitely doesn't show here with 7600 vs 6650xt.

 

True but in one way it has improved - the die is significantly smaller. Thats why some people here call it the 7500 in disguise. If the actual die were the same size as the 6650-XT it would have significantly more shaders and more performance. The 4060-Ti did the same thing yesterday. Its called a 4060-Ti but most people were referring to it as a 4050 because of how tiny the die is and how low the power draw is.

 

So for some reason, both AMD and Nvidia have chosen to shrink dies rather than improve performance significantly. I mean ya smaller dies mean more yields and more profits but its kind of like the "Un-Launched" 4080 12GB - how could AMD and Nvidia even let this happen? Its a PR nightmare already and we literally just got started

[QuantumSingularity]

I think the sudden price drop isn't a reaction to Nvidia, but to Intel. I have a feeling that AMD have inside information of how the things are going at Intel and since it's about time for us to get a new driver and hopefully BIOS updates for the Arc, there is the possibility that the A750 and A770 could receive A MASSIVE performance jump. After all the price is much closer to Arc than it is to the waste of sand 4060. It could also be a last minute decided PR stunt after they saw the terrible reception of the 4060Ti launch, but i think this is far less likely. I really do hope that Intel are on the right path with their GPU. But even if they are still not, wipe your eyes boys - this is how proper competition looks like. It will be Ryzen vs Intel all over again, only this time RDNA3 vs RTX 4000. 

As a matter of fact, seeing how many news about Intel Arc do EVGA have on their site, i think that's what is most likely to have happened - a bunch of EVGA GPUs guys went for a little show'n'tell at INtel.

[WallacEngineering]

2 hours ago, QuantumSingularity said:

I think the sudden price drop isn't a reaction to Nvidia, but to Intel.

 

I mean it could have been, but ARC has been around a while now, its old news.

 

In all likelihood, it was a response to the 4060-Ti, because in the announcement and giving reviewers info for the upcoming release, Nvidia also told reviewers that the 4060 non-Ti will be launching at $300 USD.

 

With AMD being the "value" brand and considering the RTX 4060 Non-Ti will likely beat the 7600 in overall performance, AMD panicked and decided they had to drop the price to compete.

 

Intel is certainly becoming a more interesting proposition though. If only it wasn't their very first gen and had so many issues, Im sure people would be gobbling them up like crazy after seeing these appalling releases from Nvidia and AMD.

[starsmine]

11 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

What really failed about this is RDNA3. 

 

Similar configuration to 6650XT

 

 

Similar raster performance to 6650XT

 

 

Similar RT performance to 6650XT

 

 

Just slightly lower power consumption compare to 6650XT

 

Where is the generational improvement? Only in AV1 encoding support and better overclocking potential? 

 

Im sorry?
130 dollars cheaper (at launch), less watts, still is faster. 

There still is a 7600xt that will come out.

Sure its not the best gen over gen improvement we have ever seen, but I dont think its disapointing.
in 6 months it will be like 250 USD. 

I guess this is the problem with slowly dropping prices as a gen goes on. People expect massive leaps in performance when new-gen cards drop vs the price-dropped cards. If they had just kept the 6650xt at 400 dollars people would be raving about this card. 

its out here beating a 
330 USD card (3060) that no one was actually able to manufacture for 330 USD during its run so you normally found it closer to 400. 


Its not amazing, but its really not bad at all. 

Its just really awkward that a card that launching now is the same performance as the RX 6700, but costs the same. 

[Jon-Slow]

<Removed by staff, reply to a post that has been hidden>

 

Quote

Let me see..

no RT and DLSS in: 
Honkai Rail Star
Starship Trooper Extermination
Age Of Wonder 4

IllWill
Dead Island 2

Miasma Chronicles
Wartales
Ravenswatch 
Barotrauma

Fabledom

Warhammer 40k Boltgun
Dredge

 

No RT in :
Smalland 
Great War Western Front

 

Did you really have to list a google list of indie games, RTS, cell-shaded and Dead Island 2 to make an argument over RT as if you don't know what I'm refering to? Wow Boltgun, and Honkai Rail Star don't have RT and DLSS? Oh wow! Let's all go buy the GTX 750.

Edited May 26, 2023 by leadeater
Reply to problematic post

[xAcid9]

1 hour ago, Jon-Slow said:

Did you really have to list a google list of indie games, RTS, cell-shaded and Dead Island 2 to make an argument over RT as if you don't know what I'm refering to? Wow Boltgun, and Honkai Rail Star don't have RT and DLSS? Oh wow! Let's all go buy the GTX 750.

"Every game"

Lmao. 

 

 

2 hours ago, starsmine said:

Im sorry?
130 dollars cheaper (at launch), less watts, still is faster. 

There still is a 7600xt that will come out.

Sure its not the best gen over gen improvement we have ever seen, but I dont think its disapointing.
in 6 months it will be like 250 USD. 

I guess this is the problem with slowly dropping prices as a gen goes on. People expect massive leaps in performance when new-gen cards drop vs the price-dropped cards. If they had just kept the 6650xt at 400 dollars people would be raving about this card. 

its out here beating a 
330 USD card (3060) that no one was actually able to manufacture for 330 USD during its run so you normally found it closer to 400. 
-snip-

Its not amazing, but its really not bad at all. 

Its just really awkward that a card that launching now is the same performance as the RX 6700, but costs the same. 

I'm not talking about the price, i'm talking about how disappointing RDNA3 is compare to RDNA2, especially for RX 7600. 

 

What happened to RDNA3 2nd gen RT engine?

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Or this

Spoiler

 

or 2nd Gen Infinity Cache which happen to have higher clock rate compare to Gen1 for better performance. 
Yet none of these RDNA3 improvement shown on 7600

 

This card should be the best candidate to show RDNA3 IPC improvement over RDNA2, vs 6650XT

 

• Same core count
• Same rop count
• Same bus width
• Same same vram capacity
• Slightly faster vram bandwidth
• Similar average clock speed when gaming

 

But yet 

• 4% faster compare to 6650XT in rasterization, which is basically same tier of performance.
• 2% faster compare to 6650XT in RT, also same performance.
• 10% less power compare to 6650XT, slight undervolt on 6650XT can get that number too. 

 

I've yet to see anyone testing this on 7600 but the 7900 series have VR performance issue, if it related to RDNA3 architecture then 7600 gonna suffers as well. 

 

The only saving grace imo is the AV1 encoding support, higher clock ceiling and better compute performance because of 2x more SIMD32 per CU which doesn't help gaming performance at all. 

 

 

Btw, 6650XT received price cut with the release of 7600, I can get a brand new 6650XT for $285 while 7600 cost over +$50 here.

[Jon-Slow]

1 hour ago, xAcid9 said:

"Every game"

Lmao. 

oh I'm sorry I didn't say every game excpet your cell shaded anime game, my bad. I guess 3D capabale GPUs are also not important becuase there are lots of 2D games out there so I'll make sure to specify that, and actually let's skip 3D games when benchmarking GPUs. Oh let me also make note of text adventure games. I should have clearly said that text adventure games don't have RT either. Let's see, I have a couple of board games that don't need RT on my shelf, so those too. I hope that's pedantic enough and to your liking.

[WallacEngineering]

4 hours ago, starsmine said:

Im sorry?
130 dollars cheaper (at launch), less watts, still is faster. 

There still is a 7600xt that will come out.

Sure its not the best gen over gen improvement we have ever seen, but I dont think its disapointing.
in 6 months it will be like 250 USD. 

I guess this is the problem with slowly dropping prices as a gen goes on. People expect massive leaps in performance when new-gen cards drop vs the price-dropped cards. If they had just kept the 6650xt at 400 dollars people would be raving about this card. 

its out here beating a 
330 USD card (3060) that no one was actually able to manufacture for 330 USD during its run so you normally found it closer to 400. 


Its not amazing, but its really not bad at all. 

Its just really awkward that a card that launching now is the same performance as the RX 6700, but costs the same. 

 

I will agree that the 7600 failure isn't QUITE the failure that the RTX 4060-Ti is, mainly because of price. However you gotta keep in mind the Non-Ti 4060 is coming and will be $300.

 

Its still a fail. Less than 10% improvement is just unacceptable, everyone looking to upgrade was expecting a decent improvement, maybe not quite as large as the 7900-XTX is over last gen's 6900-XT, but not this tiny, almost un-noticable improvement.

 

MSRPs of RTX 3000 cards were insane because they cane out during a crypto mining boom. Those old prices don't really count anymore. 3090-Ti released at $2000 USD if you recall.

 

But regardless of Nvidia's outrageous pricing, there is also the fact that AMD, who literally talked smack on Nvidia not more than a month ago for not having enough VRAM in their cards, now also only offers 8GB in their own 60-series equivalent. They literally issued official statements about how much better their cards were for having good amounts of VRAM at affordable price points.

 

Maybe in the 7500, sure 8GB might make sense, but this should have been a 12GB card, and then 16GB for the XT. Now Nvidia is going to be the one with the most VRAM on a 60-class card when the 16GB edition 4060-Ti launches in July.

 

Another question I think all of us have right now as well is: Where are the RX 7700 and 7800? What happened to them?

 

Sure, AMDs naming scheme is pretty dumb this time around and we all know that the 7900-XT and XTX are really the 7800-XT and 7900-XT respectively, I think that much is obvious to everyone.

 

However, there should be a non-XT version of the 7800, as well as a 7700. Something is definitely going on with AMDs upper-mid range cards. I wonder what it could be...

 

There is just no way that AMDs final product stack will jump from like a $350 7600-XT straight to an $800 7900-XT, theres just no way they would leave that massive gap, it wouldn't make sny sense at all.

[DeerDK]

3 hours ago, WallacEngineering said:

 

I will agree that the 7600 failure isn't QUITE the failure that the RTX 4060-Ti is, mainly because of price. However you gotta keep in mind the Non-Ti 4060 is coming and will be $300.

 

Its still a fail. Less than 10% improvement is just unacceptable, everyone looking to upgrade was expecting a decent improvement, maybe not quite as large as the 7900-XTX is over last gen's 6900-XT, but not this tiny, almost un-noticable improvement.

 

MSRPs of RTX 3000 cards were insane because they cane out during a crypto mining boom. Those old prices don't really count anymore. 3090-Ti released at $2000 USD if you recall.

 

But regardless of Nvidia's outrageous pricing, there is also the fact that AMD, who literally talked smack on Nvidia not more than a month ago for not having enough VRAM in their cards, now also only offers 8GB in their own 60-series equivalent. They literally issued official statements about how much better their cards were for having good amounts of VRAM at affordable price points.

 

Maybe in the 7500, sure 8GB might make sense, but this should have been a 12GB card, and then 16GB for the XT. Now Nvidia is going to be the one with the most VRAM on a 60-class card when the 16GB edition 4060-Ti launches in July.

 

Another question I think all of us have right now as well is: Where are the RX 7700 and 7800? What happened to them?

 

Sure, AMDs naming scheme is pretty dumb this time around and we all know that the 7900-XT and XTX are really the 7800-XT and 7900-XT respectively, I think that much is obvious to everyone.

 

However, there should be a non-XT version of the 7800, as well as a 7700. Something is definitely going on with AMDs upper-mid range cards. I wonder what it could be...

 

There is just no way that AMDs final product stack will jump from like a $350 7600-XT straight to an $800 7900-XT, theres just no way they would leave that massive gap, it wouldn't make sny sense at all.

When you say less than 10% improvement, are you looking at the 6600 xt or the 6600? Or even the 6650 xt?

IIRC the improvement over the non xt variant is more valid, so the final verdict may have to wait until we know what slots in above it. If we get a 7600xt and 7700 priced a bit above or pressing the 7600 down in price.

The 4060ti got curbstomped for not providing significant consistent improvement over the 3060ti.

[QuantumSingularity]

The guys who really suggest RT performance on a f**king 60 class GPU i just can't take seriously. Even more so when someone with a 60 class says they have "excellent" RT performance with a 3060. I straight up ignore these guys. So please can we stop throwing RT in a tier where pure rasterization at 1080p is a problem on its on? Like it or not, high refresh rate displays are a thing more than RT is a thing. Any normal and sane person would take high refresh rate with high FPS over barely scrapping 60FPS with RT on at 1080p. Even in Cyberpunk, basically the only game that utilizes RT properly and looks really good with it, i turn it off so i can have as high FPS as possible. High FPS and low latency is the key especially for multiplayer games. Doesn't matter what GPU you use, FPS is still the king that dictates the market. RT is AT LEAST 2-3 generation from being somewhat decently adopted. 

 

So after we got that out of the way, who here thinks the AI cores on the RDNA3 GPUs will be all about AMD's version of frame generation. I'm like 99.98% certain of it. The question is if this generational jump will be the one to surpass Nvidia. 

[WallacEngineering]

1 hour ago, QuantumSingularity said:

The guys who really suggest RT performance on a f**king 60 class GPU i just can't take seriously. Even more so when someone with a 60 class says they have "excellent" RT performance with a 3060. I straight up ignore these guys. So please can we stop throwing RT in a tier where pure rasterization at 1080p is a problem on its on? Like it or not, high refresh rate displays are a thing more than RT is a thing. Any normal and sane person would take high refresh rate with high FPS over barely scrapping 60FPS with RT on at 1080p. Even in Cyberpunk, basically the only game that utilizes RT properly and looks really good with it, i turn it off so i can have as high FPS as possible. High FPS and low latency is the key especially for multiplayer games. Doesn't matter what GPU you use, FPS is still the king that dictates the market. RT is AT LEAST 2-3 generation from being somewhat decently adopted. 

 

I agree, 90% of people have probably literally never even turned on RT. And its certainly not relevant in a 60-class card.

 

It honestly makes me wonder why people even bring it up. Its still a tech demo.

 

It is cool tech, but maybe in like 20 years when literally every game uses it as standard and every single card can do it at high fps without question, then I might just turn it on, maybe

[QuantumSingularity]

With the RTX 4000 series launches i noticed that Nvidia basically turned into Apple. It's doesn't matter what crap they put out, it doesn't matter how stupidly overpriced it is, it doesn't matter that there are better options out there - there are always people who are ready to sell their mom to buy "the latest and greatest" and worship the brand. AMD in that aspect became more like Samsung - replicate what Apple does, only innovate a bit more and make it a better value. I really hope Intel will be the Huawei brand that will emerge out of the blue with a product that slaps them both SO HARD, that the US government has to impose a ban to save their glorified iPod.