New AMD A620 Motherboards, DO NOT Support CPU's Over 65 Watt TDP or 88W PPT. Non X Only

[Lurking]

59 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

True, but I am not talking about the small minority of people who build DIY.  I am thinking about the much larger more systemically important group who just buy a PC at Best Buy or off Amazon for the lowest price that they can... thinking they can upgrade it to being a beast latter by adding or swapping components.   I think I said that a few times in this thread. 

 

This is not surprising since quite a lot of ordinary users only have a laptop  these days.  Go to a best buy or even Microcenter.  You'll see rows and rows of laptops on display but relatively few desktops.  Here's the thing I like to remember.  The LTT audience is a 0.01% of all people who buy and use computers and we on the forum are at most 10% of that audience (Maybe more post hackening).  

IF boxed processors for building a PC were only something 1% of PC users were interested in then AMD and Intel would not sell them.  There would be no profit in it.  (Remember how AMD initially did not release the Ryzen 7 5700G for DIY?).  This tells me the biggest group of people who go to best buy and grab a newer CPU or some ram are not building whole new desktops they are just upgrading old ones. 

Maybe I'm just old school but the way I first got into building computers in the 90's was by upgrading various parts of my PC.  Upgrading the CPU since that was a BIG part of Intels marketing ... so of course I switched to AMD.  Which at the time just meant swapping the CPU because they used the same exact socket.  Upgrading the ram from 4MB to 8MB, adding a larger IDE HDD.  Things like that.  I saw and heard of quite a few people even high school kids that did that sort of thing. 

I'm strictly talking about desktop PC users. Many prebuilt owners come to this forum asking about CPU upgrade. But the general advice or theme usually is that RAM, SSD, and GPU upgrade is better at removing their specific bottleneck. Once they need a new CPU, it often is better to upgrade the whole PC, or at least the whole platform (RAM/CPU/MB). The CPU often is the best part on a pre-built. There you get exactly what a DIY person would get. A 7800 is the same 7800,  DIY or prebuilt. The PSU, case, MB, RAM, and drive is where prebuilt are really bad.

 

And AM4 really was the only platform where (due to planning or coincidence);it might have been possible and made sense to have 5 year old MB and upgrade to a significantly better CPU. This isn't promised or guaranteed for AM5 and wasn't possible for Intel at all. And for pre-built you likely don't get BIOS updates to support future CPUs anyway.

 

I would say people who upgrade a CPU after 2 years are people who also have more formidable MB. I really don't understand your complaint. Just because A620 exist, that doesn't prevent anyone to buy a B or X board. They just won't be available at $70, but at $130. 

[Uttamattamakin]

4 hours ago, Lurking said:

I'm strictly talking about desktop PC users. Many prebuilt owners come to this forum asking about CPU upgrade. But the general advice or theme usually is that RAM, SSD, and GPU upgrade is better at removing their specific bottleneck. Once they need a new CPU, it often is better to upgrade the whole PC, or at least the whole platform (RAM/CPU/MB). The CPU often is the best part on a pre-built. There you get exactly what a DIY person would get. A 7800 is the same 7800,  DIY or prebuilt. The PSU, case, MB, RAM, and drive is where prebuilt are really bad.

No doubt a CPU upgrade is really better for increasing processing power and multi tasking.  In other words productivity.   It also can mean taking out a motherboard to get a cooler off in a lot of cases.  However, if the computer is your standard prebuilt with a clipped on air cooler slapping a new CPU and beefier cooler in are no more difficult than a GPU.  

 

 

4 hours ago, Lurking said:

 

And AM4 really was the only platform where

 

Not true at all. 

Up until the venerable old Super Socket 7 motherboards, and earlier, Intel and AMD chips were compatible.  Before them, with socket 3  one could start with a 486 SX 25MHz and upgrade to a Pentium Overdrive 75 Mhz or AMD 586 133Mhz  .    (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_3) 

AMD wasn't doing anything new with AM4 they were returning to form with AM4.  It used to be utterly normal to start with a very weak processor, or even a very good processor at the time you bought it, use it for 1-2 years then upgrade. 

What IS different now VS then is the idea that a CPU would be useable at all for 5 years, and be two generations old.  Consider the VAST difference between an Intel 386 (1985) and The first Pentiums  two generations latter (1993).      If this was so great why don't they do it now.  Legalities.  Technologically there is no reason we couldn't have computers that made this possible right now.  It's all a matter of AMD no longer having the license to make CPU's that are that compatible with Intel or Vice Versa. 

 

4 hours ago, Lurking said:

I would say people who upgrade a CPU after 2 years are people who also have more formidable MB. I really don't understand your complaint. Just because A620 exist, that doesn't prevent anyone to buy a B or X board. They just won't be available at $70, but at $130. 

You may not understand my complaint because I am comming at it from a generationally different place.  For I was born into a time when at first when you bought a computer (a TI or Coloeco Adam ... it wasn't compatible with anything.  Even the next computer from the same company could be utterly different.  Then I came of age in the 1990's where EVERYTHING (except Apple) was compatible with everything.  I could build a computer with either a AMD or Intel or Cyrix or other CPU  with the same socket.  Then upgrade to a better CPU a year or two or three latter.  

AMD's ability to do that was like YES finally sanity is returning.  

Many here may have grown used to the idea that a computers core was just never upgraded.   It's just a difference of historical perspective.  It'll be your turn soon.  Give it 10 years and everything even X86 if it survives will be an SOC.  Why buy discrete parts when you have 32 cores of CPU, 128 cores of GPU and 1 TB of ram and 10 TB of SSD on die?   Then some youngin will tell you how silly it is to want to add parts that....gramps.  Lol. 

[mr moose]

21 hours ago, Lurking said:

Most is for the general thread. For you specifically I just addressed you calling it a support issue. Maybe it is semantics. But if the A620 supports what the specs say (only 65W), then it is not a support issue. Support is what it is supposed to be.

 

It would be a support issue if the MB does not support a listed CPU. 

 

I don't know anyone who would ever upgrade a CPU. This is just a rare thing. 99% of people buy a prebuilt PC. And when some software doesn't work after 5 year, they buy a new PC. This isn't good, but is what it is.

 

Unless you are a total gamer or pro always needing the newest, it also isn't worth it to upgrade the CPU alone. I buy a CPU good for some years and typically 2-3 times the cost of the MB. And after say 5 years I just buy a new MB (often new CPU are not supported anyway and there are new other features or standards). Even if I upgraded the old CPU, what would I do with the old CPU? It needs an MB anyway. There is a surplus of old CPUs, and a shortage of old MB. MB just fail more often than CPUs. So I either sell or use the old MB/CPU combo in a secondary system. It is less e-waste to use the old CPU and MB for lower uses than having the old CPU in a drawer. My last system was an i7-7700k on a $100 MB. My current one is a 7900 on a $150 MB. By the time I need a a new CPU, we are on AM6 or AM7 anyway (or Intel gets better). 

 

Maybe if you buy MB that cost as much or more as the CPU, upgrading CPU makes sense. But this isn't what we would expect for A620 buyers.

 

 

 

Having a supported list means that there are products that are not supported. unless your list includes everything you cannot have one without the other. The problem is people think not supporting something is a crime.  In this instance I'll grant its a little bit more complex than what it appears superficially, but still.  I deeply suspect people think it's a crime because trying to think more deeply about why AMD has feature requirements for their chipsets is too much.  I.E  If we ignore the fact that motherboards would become a minefield of hit and miss (the chipset having a feature but the motherboard not having it), AMD do not have to place requirements on motherboards for their chipsets, it could actually be up to the mobo maker to decide how much and what quality VRM they are going to use then price accordingly.  this while move is just to ensure customers know what they are getting (which I'm not completely against).

 

 

[mgrandy]

Yall whining yet these arnt available to buy in uk, been building pc's since god was a boy currently on ddr3 system fx i bought back in 2014 ish. Didnt make sense to upgrade to ddr4 for 20% gains, now ddr5 is here 40% gains so worth the upgrade for me personally. Not all of us can aford to chuck £10000 at a pc every 2 weeks. Ive personally been holding off for cheap boards and only ones i can find are £95 from amazon us. If you upgraded from ddr4 to ddr5 its not worth but for me personally it is. Many old skool gamers are in this boat. 

 

Ddr 1 400mhz +2x

Ddr2 800mhz +2x

Ddr3 1600mhz +1.5x

Ddr4 2400mhz +1.5x

Ddr5 3200mhz 

 

Certainly not my fault tech slowed. My pc has only just started showing signs of age pegging an 8 core fx to 100% in which i now cant find a uk supplier of a620 chipset 2 mths after release.

 

Me personnlly cant justify spending 200-400 gbp on a motherboard. Facts. 100gbp ok yea im half in half out. Like jheeze im not upgrading to ssd for a 5 year lifespan when it was 5 gbp per gig and 5.25 drives so cheap 0.25p per gig. Now thou im seriously concidering it. Im stuggling to work out the gpu situation more than the board situations. Ram on this hasnt changed much since the titan x's. Seems like a legit scam for ray tracing cards.  

 

 

[starsmine]

40 minutes ago, mgrandy said:

Yall whining yet these arnt available to buy in uk, been building pc's since god was a boy currently on ddr3 system fx i bought back in 2014 ish. Didnt make sense to upgrade to ddr4 for 20% gains, now ddr5 is here 40% gains so worth the upgrade for me personally. Not all of us can aford to chuck £10000 at a pc every 2 weeks. Ive personally been holding off for cheap boards and only ones i can find are £95 from amazon us. If you upgraded from ddr4 to ddr5 its not worth but for me personally it is. Many old skool gamers are in this boat. 

 

Ddr 1 400mhz +2x

Ddr2 800mhz +2x

Ddr3 1600mhz +1.5x

Ddr4 2400mhz +1.5x

Ddr5 3200mhz 

 

Certainly not my fault tech slowed. My pc has only just started showing signs of age pegging an 8 core fx to 100% in which i now cant find a uk supplier of a620 chipset 2 mths after release.

 

Me personnlly cant justify spending 200-400 gbp on a motherboard. Facts. 100gbp ok yea im half in half out. Like jheeze im not upgrading to ssd for a 5 year lifespan when it was 5 gbp per gig and 5.25 drives so cheap 0.25p per gig. Now thou im seriously concidering it. Im stuggling to work out the gpu situation more than the board situations. Ram on this hasnt changed much since the titan x's. Seems like a legit scam for ray tracing cards.  

 

 

isnt the slowest ddr5 JEDEC speed 4000MT/s?
Im also confused at all your other numbers used. were they just picked at random?

Like 400MT/s was the fastest DDR JEDEC standard. 
2400MT/s is a middle speed for DDR4 JEDEC. What are your reasonings for picking these speeds?

[porina]

6 hours ago, mgrandy said:

i now cant find a uk supplier of a620 chipset 2 mths after release.

First place I looked have 4 models in stock: https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/motherboards-amd/amd-a620-socket-am5-microatx-motherboards

 

5 hours ago, starsmine said:

isnt the slowest ddr5 JEDEC speed 4000MT/s?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16143/insights-into-ddr5-subtimings-and-latencies

JEDEC might go down to 3200, but Intel launched at 4800 going to 5600 currently, AMD are at 5200.

 

Similarly with DDR4 minimum defined was 1600. Intel first used DDR4 in 2014 with HEDT Haswell-E supporting 2133. Mainstream launched in 2015 also at 2133. AMD didn't enter DDR4 era for another two years after that.

[WolframaticAlpha]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:50 PM, leadeater said:

Sure but that doesn't mean ALL current CPUs aren't supported though...

 

They meant that support doesn't extend to every single CPU. Not that every single CPU is not supported

[leadeater]

43 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

They meant that support doesn't extend to every single CPU. Not that every single CPU is not supported

Haha yea, dunno why that didn't occur to me 

 

Read it too literally lol. Ah well mistakes will always be made at some point.

[dalekphalm]

This is absolutely a nothing sandwich. The amount of consumers who upgrade their CPU is very small even among the DIY space (in my own experience and anecdotal observance, when a DIY wants to upgrade a CPU, they typically do CPU/MB/RAM all at once).

 

Upgrading the CPU in a Prebuilt? Like, yeah... it does happen, but that's so damn incredibly rare that it makes DIY CPU upgrades look common. Like, the guy who goes to Best Buy and buys a prebuilt is so unlikely to upgrade their CPU that this just doesn't matter at all. Aside from that, as mentioned, the CPU is usually the most overspecced part of a Pre-built ("Gaming" PC's with i7's and a GTX 710, for example).

 

If you buy a pre-built, you will almost certainly want to upgrade almost everything else BEFORE considering a CPU upgrade.

[WereCat]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:20 PM, leadeater said:

Sure but that doesn't mean ALL current CPUs aren't supported though...

 

And you can use any anyway, the CPU will boot just fine but be in restricted PPT mode. Also this isn't even something you should do, nor want. Even cheap B series boards in the past have struggled with x900X and x950X so similarly A series isn't creating a new problem. You can cheap out on your board as much as you like but don't assume your top end 16 core CPU isn't being VRM throttled losing tons of performance.

 

You can do what you want sensibly or you can do it the bad way and you'll get the result deserved, not desired 

 

B series exists. B650M starts at $129 (at least on newegg) so I really don't see a problem here. A series boards have never been popular, this isn't creating a new problem.

It's really like people overreacting because a $15 LGA1700 compatible air cooler can't cool a 13900K. I mean, sure, you can use it for that CPU but it's not really designed to cool anything more than i3. You're buying the bottom of the barrel cheapest stuff and if you want something better in future then spend more $. You literally can do the same thing with a motherboard, either you lose a ton of CPU power due to VRM throttling (lifespan of the board goes down quite fast too in that case) or just stick to cheap low-power CPU.

Also I think that most of the issue here is that people think that above 65W CPU will literally not even boot on those boards because "not compatible" which I don't think is a thing.

[Mark Kaine]

i mean don't buy that board if you have a "high end" cpu simply...?

 

 

That said my 60 bucks cheapo msi b350 still supported a 5800x3D just fine , so yeah, pc parts are pretty much overpriced these days, but relatively cheaper options still cant hurt. (and the 7000 series *does* work from the looks of it so its not like u get a brick even if u don't do any research )

[Uttamattamakin]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

i mean don't buy that board if you have a "high end" cpu simply...?

 

 

That said my 60 bucks cheapo msi b350 still supported a 5800x3D just fine , so yeah, pc parts are pretty much overpriced these days, but relatively cheaper options still cant hurt. (and the 7000 series *does* work from the looks of it so its not like u get a brick even if u don't do any research )

Maybe I am out of touch.  

My thoughts on this are of the 12 year old kid who will get the cheapest PC bought for them by their parents.  They'll think they can upgrade their CPU only to found out, heartbreakingly, that a higher end sku will not work. 

I was that kid ... but in the 90's cpu's that were compatible with a given socket often worked in any motherboard with that socket.  Didn't matter who made them.  Once upon a time an AMD CPU or an intel CPU or a Cyrix CPU in the same motherboard at various times was a thing.  

[Forbidden Wafer]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:15 PM, da na said:

Very serious, unfortunately

Oh boy, this reminds me of my Core 2 Duo Intel Mac. Started copying files or downloading something? There goes one CPU. But shouldn't really happen on a modern CPU.

[dalekphalm]

7 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Maybe I am out of touch.  

My thoughts on this are of the 12 year old kid who will get the cheapest PC bought for them by their parents.  They'll think they can upgrade their CPU only to found out, heartbreakingly, that a higher end sku will not work. 

Assuming they're doing their research properly, they'll know which available CPU's will be compatible (and no doubt PCPartPicker could be updated to alert the user).

 

Assuming they don't buy the highest end CPU available for that board right out of the gate, they'll have some kind of upgrade option. This isn't really a concern.

7 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

I was that kid ... but in the 90's cpu's that were compatible with a given socket often worked in any motherboard with that socket.  Didn't matter who made them.  Once upon a time an AMD CPU or an intel CPU or a Cyrix CPU in the same motherboard at various times was a thing.  

So the kid will have less upgrade options - this really isn't the end of the world.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

My thoughts on this are of the 12 year old kid who will get the cheapest PC bought for them by their parents.  They'll think they can upgrade their CPU only to found out, heartbreakingly, that a higher end sku will not work. 

They will work, even a 7950X, it'll just be power performance limited. Not even a maybe but we don't know, these CPUs are on official support lists.

 

https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-a620m-a/helpdesk_qvl_cpu/?model2Name=PRIME-A620M-A