Why our screwdriver took 3 YEARS

[AnonymousGuy]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:02 AM, saint_louis_bagels said:

To be fair, this is likely the same demographic of people who buy the latest and greatest graphics card to to run games at ultra detail 4K 144Hz. People want to buy the best thing for no reason.

I'm always latest and greatest and I'm talking a lot of shit about a $70 screwdriver.  For anything I might use a ratchet, I use either my M4 or M12 electric drivers.  For everything internal-PC I'm using these things:

 

 

It sounds from the advertising like LTT is expecting their screwdriver to be mostly used as a heavier bulkier version of these if you're spinning the shaft with your fingers.

 

I dislike bit screwdrivers and electronics because the bit holding section gets in the way a lot of the time with recessed holes or tight clearances.

[Jaballadad]

Phew, there's the video where you finally talked about how much you learned about mold making aaaaand .... it was OK. In fact, pretty decent.

 

It makes sense for your first venture to outsource the whole process to an independent mold maker.

I still remember at my 4th workplace, my 2nd as mold designer, the senior designer told me from his experience even after being a product designer specializing in mold design finished their roughly 3 year training. It usually takes another 2-3 years to single-handedly design molds confidently by themselves. It is not rocket science or design in this case, but it is not either something you just do in between.

 

Although me being from germany working quite some time in the injection mold industry, though mostly in small family businesses and mid-size businesses, only once in a fortune 500, I obviously have no idea who Innovative Tool & Die Inc. is, never heard of them. But from what has been shown in the video they have a perfectly good workshop for the craft (love to see the Roboform 40, many places I have been to and many of my classmates from technican school

use them in their places).

 

The molds themselves from the few glances which were shown and, due to the information that has been given, also look totally fine.

 

Personally, I wish we had been told much more. But I understand the video can not be that much longer. Therefore, I will try to ask here now, though I can not find Tynans or Kyles forum handle it unfortunately.

 

@AlexTheGreatish

 

-Linus mentioned in the video you went with hardened steel. Could you elaborate which one you went with and which hardness in HRC you got inserts, sliders and cores finished? Or did you simply let the mold maker decide on that? Just curious how your or the mold makers' choice compares to the customers demands from automotive I usually deal with.

 

-Did you write a specification list or work out one with IT&D? I have never done any mold under any employer for any customer where we would not have at least a single page with the most basic information like the plastics which should be injected, which injection mold machine is supposed to be equipped with the tool, how many shots/cycles are warranted by us, etc. Usually, nowadays, those lists are morei like small books.

 

-To link to that did you use mold bases from any standard component maker or is the mold a completely unique item? Again, here, usually what I have seen over the last decade, only F-type or K-type bases are used from tiny to slightly above average sized molds. I would say you can get bases until 1196 mm from either Meusburger or Hasco. And that's worldwide. And demanded from any end client worldwide.

 

-I am curious why, at the part where Kyle and Linus are at the injection molding machine, Kyle said the sprue and the cold runner are the smallest possible size you could make them. Would it not have been possible to use a single hot runner nozzle? Sure, this would have at least added 1000 Euros (sorry I do not know the Canadian prices for hot runners) for each mold from any reputable hot runner company.

 

but this measure would almost completely eliminate the sprue and therefore save a couple of grams of your plastic material, which is not insignificant considering you plan to have hundreds or thousands if not millions shots with those molds also accounting for rising prices for plastic resin. Also, a cold sprue is much worse for the thermal mass or the plastic compared to a hot runner. Nowadays, it does not make much sense anymore not to use a hot runner. Only reasons I can think of are the aforementioned space constraints or extreme price constraints, which I would not think of in your case.

 

-Also mentioned by Kyle at the injection machine was that for that particular tool for the handle, the cold runner tunnel gates were not self-cutting, but for another it was. Any reason for that? Any plans to have IT&D make a revision/correction for that tool to change the gates? We usually have to include two "complaint" fixes and one revision or vice versa in our contracts when we offer to make tools for someone. Well again, that's most automotive, so maybe theres no other way for us offering the tools this way.

[tkitch]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:51 PM, papajo said:

yes I am completely sure of it even if the quality is the same the klein one has adjustable and exchangable shafts which is one of the reason I complaint about in my first post in this topic 

Now that there have been independent reviews of the driver, what do you say?  

Since it beat everything but the PB Swiss driver at twice the price?

[papajo]

1 hour ago, tkitch said:

Now that there have been independent reviews of the driver, what do you say?  

Since it beat everything but the PB Swiss driver at twice the price?

I am not so sure how "independent" the review was (I assume you meant the project farm video since they had to accept their participation in there and I/we dont know the process or agreements before accepting to participate) having that said it still did not beat everything but it had the 2nd best average or something like that and the tests were more focused on material quality stuff (like e.g who is going to crank his screw driver until it brakes? ) which I did not doubt nor confirm since I have not held the screw driver in my hands but they were  not about real life usefulness my opinion still stands as it was it is just an other screwdriver like what is already there but it could be more, maybe "ltt screw driver 2.0" is going to address that issue who knows?  

Jeff did a little better job but his review again was more like a "PC review" focusing on specs although he parted (that's why I believe he did a better job) quite a few times mentioning stuff like the thickness of shaft causing problems in PC assembly (which is something about usefulness ) 

personally there is a handyman guy on youtube shorts that trolls on telemerketing or DIY videos who seems to know his stuff and I would like him to comment about it he would point out the real usefulness but on the other hand he is more of a construction/mechanic guy as far as I understand and maybe wouldnt be aware about stuff that is useful in PC/IT work regarding a screwdriver but still it would be an interesting hands on (I am talking about Funk FPV) . 

 

[FazeDrift6990]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:14 PM, AlexTheGreatish said:

We finally finished it, the LTT screwdriver is up for sale: https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver

I want you guys to review quest 2 vs vive focus 3

 

 

 

[Ultraforce]

1 hour ago, papajo said:

I am not so sure how "independent" the review was (I assume you meant the project farm video since they had to accept their participation in there and I/we dont know the process or agreements before accepting to participate) having that said it still did not beat everything but it had the 2nd best average or something like that and the tests were more focused on material quality stuff (like e.g who is going to crank his screw driver until it brakes? ) which I did not doubt nor confirm since I have not held the screw driver in my hands but they were  not about real life usefulness my opinion still stands as it was it is just an other screwdriver like what is already there but it could be more, maybe "ltt screw driver 2.0" is going to address that issue who knows?  

Linus mentioned in the latest life stream in between talking about that he doesn't know if people kill kittens that the participation that he mentioned with Project Farms and Jeff Geerling is that Project Farms was given a URL for the web page to buy it early and both Geerling and Farms got expedited shipping on their order.

[Jaballadad]

Just finished the "The Computer I Would Actually BUY" video/stream and I thought I would post again considering the mold stuff which was mentioned there.

 

@LinusTech

I am very happy to hear you are looking for a tool designer to do the actual mold design process in-house. I can not even think of any

of the customers for any of my employers (the supplier of the suppliers for automotive mostly) who still has in-house mold designers.

That is awesome. For me, it is always a pain to contact our customer, who needs to contact theirs and them, then their end client if I need

to make any changes to the plastic parts. For example, ribs or fins have no demolding angle. This will save your engineers and mold makers so much time and stress.You were also talking a fair bit about the possibility of additional holders for all the bits and the molds for them. The timeframe and cost to have the molds made locally is indeed realistic, compared to what I know about Germany.

 

And here are some reasons for that for those who might not know and are interested:

 

Spoiler

There's simply no way for small to mid-sized moldmakers to make molds any faster. There are just so many steps, tasks and work stages you can outsource locally until you lose the oversight totally. Or in the worst case, parts will not fit properly anymore, even though we are talking about craftsmen who work on highly precise machines to produce these tools which usually have tolerances in the hundreds of millimeters. But mistakes happen between companies, unfortunately. And to correct this, you can only weld or make additional inserts in your inserts. And nobody wants that in this industry. That's why usually most of the tasks to make a mold stay in a single mold shop, except for very specialized tasks like ultra high grade polish or hardening. And since mold makers do not employ hundreds of skilled craftsmen and have their workshops filled with dozens of high-end machines, there's just so many tasks one can do simultaneously.

 

As for the high price, well, the machines the mold maker and the sub industries use cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, all the steel you need is not cheap either (and won't be any time soon, with raised energy prices considering the production and hardening of the steel) the mills, drills, lathe tools and bits fo those are also quite pricy, the graphite or if you would rather use copper for the EDM electrodes is neither cheap (in germany they are both almost equaly priced). The list goes on and on. Sub industries, like standard part makers, hot runner makers, hardening/heat treatment shops and others also want their cut.

 

As for the outsourcing to China, I would probably have agreed with you some years ago. The last employer, who let some workshops in China manufacture certain parts of the molds, also did not trust any Chinese company and always reminded me to remove any engraving in the 3D-files and any information in the files, so the Chinese workshops could not trace back which automotive company was the end client of our molds.From my current employer I know there is a completely different way to work with chinese mold makers. Apparently, for several decades my current boss is in a special partnership with one Chinese mold maker (and for several years with a 2nd one as well). He did this in order to offer the German automotive suppliers cheap discounter molds, mainly for non-visible parts. These molds come with the assurance that they are completely managed here from Germany. We communicate all the specifications and requirements with the mold maker in the far east and make sure everyone is happy. 

 

Ownership is definitely in the hands of the automotive end client. Usually that's not even an issue, as even though it might be cheaper to produce plastic parts in China, most of the time for logistics its easier to have the mold somewhere in Europe or America (most of the time we get the molds delivered to Germany, but recently some have been sent to Romania and also to Mexico). Thats also an added bonus for the end client. Since we can offer the onside service for repair and revisions, long timeouts because of troublesome communication with the Chinese mold maker or long shipping times do not apply. We get the 3D-files and detailed documentation from China after all. Nonetheless you are right about getting early samples and making changes. Those steps take some more time if one is not willing to ship everything by air. But all this might also only be the case for automitve.

 

I still wonder why your local mold makers do not have similar partnerships or agreements with Chinese mold makers like we do. For a fact, I know the German mold maker I work for is not the only one. Maybe one outside of British Columbia but still in Canada can offer you such a deal/service?

 

[papajo]

1 hour ago, Ultraforce said:

with Project Farms and Jeff Geerling is that Project Farms was given a URL for the web page to buy it early and both Geerling and Farms got expedited shipping on their order.

That may be but lets be honest like if anything else came into play other than "I choose especially you to get this early and test it cause I like you" he wouldnt say "yea we gave him some money to talk nicely" or "yea we reviewed the video before it got uploaded and asked for some stuff to be omitted or added to the video" (like I think at the end of it he also for some reason omitted some metrics and said something in the lines of  "by omitting those ltt screw driver comes ahead" )  
Like who would shoot himself on his foot without a reason? lol 

Anyway I am not saying that foul play took place I am just saying that we cant know. 

What I can tell for sure is what I already said that the comparison was more focused on material quality (and on stress testing tolerances at that , at a degree that wouldnt surface in real life application like nobody would put these screw drivers under such forces until they brake in any sort of real life application especially when we talking about computer service /it support) and it wasnt a comparison of which one is actually more useful for IT/PC work stuff and in general. 

Jeff (although I found his comparison lacking too) did a better job at that. 

[Ultraforce]

2 minutes ago, papajo said:

That may be but lets be honest like if anything else came into play other than "I choose especially you to get this early and test it cause I like you" he wouldnt say "yea we gave him some money to talk nicely" or "yea we reviewed the video before it got uploaded and asked some stuff to be omitted or added to the video" (like I think at the end of it he also for some reason ommited some metrics and said something in the lines of  "by omitting those ltt screw driver comes ahead" )  
Like who would shoot himself on his foot without a reason? lol 

Anyway I am not saying that foul play took place I am just saying that we cant know. 

What I can tell for sure is what I already said that the comparison was more focused on material quality (and on stress testing tolerances at that) and it wasnt a comparison of which one is actually more useful for IT/PC work stuff and in general. 

To be fair if you actually believed that there was foul play you could know there's something called lawyers and organizations that focus on truth in advertising. Given that neither made outrageous claims I think it's kind of a bad idea to act as though it's a real possibility. Video game reviewers didn't give Devil's Third a good score even though they got that game for free and most laptop or phone unboxings that are provided by the manufacturer end with a note of might be good for some people but isn't great in use cases the person looking at it cares about. Additionally both Geerling and the Project Farm guy basically ended up recommending other ratcheting screwdrivers. PB Swiss as the ultimate High price product or if you are in Europe it's just better then the LTT screwdriver and less expensive due to shipping from Switzerland and while the LTT is better in some category that for most people the 30$ screwdriver would be better from a spending money perspective.

[papajo]

32 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

To be fair if you actually believed that there was foul play you could know there's something called lawyers and organizations that focus on truth in advertising

What Do I care to put my self in all the ordeel + to have to face legally a guy who has millions to lawyer  up ? Plus the only thing I said is that linus saying something about that in his own stream doesnt serve as proof for anything he obviously wouldnt say publicaly that he reviewed the outcome or scripted or whatsoever IF that was the case, I was simply stating the obvious with my comment on your post where you mentioned that he said something about the review on his livestream. 

[Zberg]

Background:  I do a lot of DIY, have built many things in my house from tables to stuff for the kid, to general carpentry, decks, pergolas etc...And in terms of PC's, I have also built quite a few of them including my main rig which has a custom loop; also a few mini ITX working in super tight quarters, etc...

 

All that said...I have used the same ratcheting screwdriver I got from a local no name hardware store 15 years ago that was 10 dollars.  It works great, has 6 bits in the handle that are double sided (so 12), ratcheting is great, and only complaint is a weak magnet.  But I have used it as my daily driver and main screwdriver forever and its just fantastic.  You really dont need high end when it comes to these things.  The only caveat, is I have a very long standard philips single screwdriver that has a strong magnetic tip for hard to reach stuff (not for PC's specifically, but I did deploy it once in an ITX with an impossibly small corner screw to reach).  

 

So I think a 70 dollar screw driver is likely extreme overkill and unnecessary.  There are just so many good options that are dirt cheap.

 

All that said I am going to upgrade my daily driver to the LTT screwdriver, because I have enjoyed content from this channel for a long time, and am happy to support them...also my wife frequently steals MY screwdriver for little jobs and I have to track it down, so she can inherit that one, and ill upgrade to the LTT.  They have earned a buy from me, IMO

[CommanderAlex]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:46 AM, George McGnarly said:

I have Mahi Mahi.

I love iFixit screwdrivers. I got the Mahi and it feels great ergonomically. I have a Kobalt ratcheting screwdriver and I haven't touched it in years since getting screwdriver/toolkits from iFixit. 

[geerlingguy]

3 hours ago, papajo said:

Anyway I am not saying that foul play took place I am just saying that we cant know. 

Just to put any speculation to bed (well, assuming you trust me (bro, lol)):

1. I contacted LTT a couple months back after the WAN show where Linus said he'd consider sending out drivers for review (this is standard across any industry—tools, PC parts, etc.).
2. They said they would send some out soon after working with Todd to get a few out to Project Farm—they actually delayed a little to fix that production issue, but sent two final production screwdrivers last week.
3. Our deal was that I would pay for them, just like I did at retail for the other screwdrivers in my video (and I have no reason to believe Todd did anything different than the rest of his videos either—he always buys all the tools he tests).

Due to holidays and the timeline, the invoice was sent on Tuesday, and paid within a few minutes (see attachment). To settle any other questions—I was also delivered a white 'Creator Edition' screwdriver plus a blackout model I'm having my Dad test out (he so far is happy with it for his radio work... but it's only been a day, it's certainly nicer than the cheapo ratchet he had in his bag before). And the amount I paid was in CAD and didn't include shipping.

 

So yes, on a technicality additional compensation was offered (free shipping and a creator edition screwdriver set). But no, LTT had zero say in my video—in the concept, in the production, or in the aftermath. After receiving the screwdriver I didn't communicate with LTT in any way until posting my video.

 

And I'm speculating here, but there's a chance Linus himself had never heard of me until he commented on my video... it sounds like between the backpack, the warranty debacle, Whale LAN, and the screwdriver launch, I don't think they'd even have time to orchestrate any kind of conspiratorial review pumping behind the scenes.

 

(Aside: I'm considering doing a follow-up with thoughts after using the LTT screwdriver for a couple months, also incorporating feedback from my Dad, and testing a couple other drivers like the Megapro Automotive and a Wiha/Xaomi since a ton of people thought they should be included in a comparison—honestly I'd never heard of Megapro before this whole thing, it's not a huge tool brand (AFAICT?) in the USA.)

 

One final thought—the reason I meticulously documented my process (and even uploaded the 3D files and chart for the slop tester!) was so you could reproduce all my test results on your own. My subjective opinion is that the LTT driver is good (IMO better than the snap-on for general use), but it is not the best value for most people. For that, I'd go with the Williams. I was most surprised how poorly the Wera performed... I was expecting it to be way better, but I found too many annoyances using it (the ratchet, the top when requiring pressure, the shaft being harder to use one-handed, and the bitholder is convenient but more awkward).

[papajo]

2 hours ago, geerlingguy said:

Just to put any speculation to bed (well, assuming you trust me (bro, lol)):

Lol no m8 the speculation (more like me saying that "we dont know so we should  leave a door open" ) wasnt towards you but towards the project farm review but again as you quoted me in your response I am not saying that foul play took place ) 

In fact (as far as you are concerned) I found your review more “realistic”  e.g

 

5 hours ago, papajo said:

Jeff (although I found his comparison lacking too) did a better job at that. 

in case you may be interested to know as to why I found it lacking it's because you missed the opportunity to actually use them in some PC building IT stuff where it could show the difference between a useful/good screwdriver and a not so useful one but even then you mentioned e.g that the thickness of the shaft is important (lol sorry no pun intended) but you screwing that very easy to screw fan screw did not serve as an amble example in my humble opinion. 

You could e.g try to reach those deep screws from an Noctua NH 15 where it is hard to reach if you dont have the supplied tool 

Or e.g many a time as I mentioned in some GPU installation in combination with certain ATX cases the ATX case doesnt allow for a screw driver to be directly on the screw because the "bezel" (that supports the lid)  gets in the way. 

Some provide holes to get the screw driver through that bezel but thickness can be an issue.

And in general there are many occasions in servicing computers/electronics where a general purpuse screwdriver may not be enough,  this was my initial protest towards the ltt screwdriver (instead of trying to spend so much time and money on making a nice clicky noise innovate in making the screw driver more useful for PC/IT applications and in general e.g LEDs so you can see that deep screw in the shadow of rack or what not etc) 

P.S Since I first saw a video of yours I always wanted to ask you this but figured if I commented on your video you wouldnt notice so I take the opportunity now, your resemblance to an old childhood friend, actually besty, I had is amazing but I lost contact with him since 1st grade (elementary) because I moved to an other country. 

Most likely (as in 99.9%) you are not the same guy but If you happen to have lived in Germany (Nuremberg) at that time then hit me with a PM   

[sub68]

So back in 2020 I bought a ifixit pro tech and it was one of the best things I bought tool wise.

I know I can buy a cheap amazon set.

Why didnt I?

Well because I knew I was going to be in the electronic space for awhile also:

1. I was going to use it alot

2.I have no idea what is going to break and I need to fix.

 

I have used the cheap options its good for average person.

But used daily on high volume I have seen things break.

No I didnt buy it because I see every influncer buy one, I was using ifixit for guides for awhile before buying.

 

All my school districts building technicians have a kit that's like 16+ kits, the computer program had 10-20 pro tech kits.

The mix is old ifixit pro kits and new kits. Why do we use these kits? cause we absolutely go though a absurd number of repairs and daily use/ abuse the kits.

I haven't seen a ifixit driver fail nor there bits.

 

Sure my kit is beat up but its used for alot I have fixed toy's to cameras and lenses.

Reminds me of my camera a tool that get absolutely hammered from doing media work.

 

When a tool pretty much is part of you arm you might want to invest in a good one.

Sure it doesn't have to be the LTT one could be any premium driver, you want the tool be a very trusted tool.

You want a tool that keep your morale up and helps with effecient.

Sure this written from a guy that isn't a enthusiast (staring at optiplex 5050) but from a person that had to go though mountains of laptops for repair.

[papajo]

2 minutes ago, sub68 said:

know I can buy a cheap amazon set.

I am completely satisfied with the ifixit kit I have (cant remember the name and too bored to google it) but my only complaint (not its not the LEDS since they are very thin to fit leds :P) is that the screw driver is too short and that (at least in my kit) there wasnt an extension provided which I found a shame I think I saw a pick where it seems that they  have an extension shaft in it but I always postpone to order a new one   

[sub68]

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

is that the screw driver is too short and that (at least in my kit) there wasnt an extension provided which I found a shame I think I saw a pick where it seems that they  have an extension shaft in it but I always postpone to order a new one 

Can you post a picture of it?

I am guessing its the old versions

Spoiler

I have the newer version and I like the driver.

5 minutes ago, papajo said:

not its not the LEDS since they are very thin to fit leds

I usually have a head lamp or small penlight

[papajo]

5 minutes ago, sub68 said:

Can you post a picture of it?

 

I was bored to do so!  

oh well here you go  



 

The one you got doesnt seem to have an extension shaft either, or does it? 


This one seems to have one and even better (if my assumption is correct and its not something totally different) has one that is flexible (so useful when you try to screw something at an angle because you cant reach the screw otherwise) 


 

[Spotty]

14 minutes ago, papajo said:

in case you may be interested to know as to why I found it lacking it's because you missed the opportunity to actually use them in some PC building IT stuff where it could show the difference between a useful/good screwdriver and a not so useful one but even then you mentioned e.g that the thickness of the shaft is important (lol sorry no pun intended) but you screwing that very easy to screw fan screw did not serve as an amble example in my humble opinion. 

 

18 minutes ago, papajo said:

Or e.g many a time as I mentioned in some GPU installation in combination with certain ATX cases the ATX case doesnt allow for a screw driver to be directly on the screw because the "bezel" (that supports the lid)  gets in the way. 

He did though? He tested the screwdrivers installing a motherboard in to an itx case. He did find that some screwdrivers had issues with the shaft/handle getting in the way. 

There's only so much you can test in a <30min video, so you can't expect him to test every niche use case with every cooler that might be tricky to install or completely build and dismantle a PC a dozen times to test all screwdrivers. What he did test though seems to be representative of what you're asking, and very close to what you're asking for with the "bezel" getting in the way.

[papajo]

8 minutes ago, sub68 said:

I usually have a head lamp or small penlight

yea and I use my phone's flashlight but its not ideal most of the time, other times the thing/installation is like bolted in place and cant move it to have a better angle (e.g my head not casting a shadow)  etc. 

[papajo]

Just now, Spotty said:

He tested the screwdrivers installing a motherboard in to an itx case.

 

23 minutes ago, papajo said:

but you screwing that very easy to screw fan screw did not serve as an amble example in my humble opinion. 

Yea I mentioned that but it was like the most straight forward case in which any screw driver could have worked just the same obviously a screw driver is good at screwing a screw if there are no lighting or clearance issues or weird angles involved but that's not the case usually (at least if you service PCs/electronics and generally do IT/hobby stuff) 

[sub68]

1 minute ago, papajo said:

The one you got doesnt seem to have an extension shaft either, or does it? 

Mine does.

Good part is ifixit kept it to a 4mm standard so finding extentions isnt too hard.

2 minutes ago, papajo said:

This one seems to have one and even better (if my assumption is correct and its not something totally different) has one that is flexible (so useful when you try to screw something at an angle because you cant reach the screw otherwise) 

yes that is my daily kit.

3 minutes ago, papajo said:

I was bored to do so!

feel ya

[geerlingguy]

2 hours ago, Spotty said:

 

He did though? He tested the screwdrivers installing a motherboard in to an itx case. He did find that some screwdrivers had issues with the shaft/handle getting in the way. 

There's only so much you can test in a <30min video, so you can't expect him to test every niche use case with every cooler that might be tricky to install or completely build and dismantle a PC a dozen times to test all screwdrivers. What he did test though seems to be representative of what you're asking, and very close to what you're asking for with the "bezel" getting in the way.

I actually did test most (not all) the drivers with my Noctua UH-12S and found the clearance issues to be very close to the same as those I found with the Doyle (mostly) and to a smaller extent the Stanley. The rest were serviceable.

 

I didn't include it mainly because the shooting schedule didn't allow time for me to pull apart my main workstation so I could stick it on a bench, and I felt like the little ITX case demo'ed the same concept but in a quicker to film way. I will hopefully get to do a complete PC teardown/rebuild with a few of the drivers at least in time for a follow-up.

[papajo]

21 hours ago, geerlingguy said:

I actually did test most (not all) the drivers with my Noctua UH-12S and found the clearance issues to be very close to the same as those I found with the Doyle (mostly) and to a smaller extent the Stanley. The rest were serviceable.

The point of my reference regarding the noctua nh 15 was not about testing a particular brand of fans or fans in general 

It was just a showcase scenario about testing a condition that arises when servicing IT stuff I just happened to know that the nh 15 fan met such a condition and used it as an example just for reference.

You see the 12s is easy to screw even if you had a huge black+decker  you could screw it   



But the nh15 one for example has the screws in between its two bodies of fins 



And you cant screw them in from the sides (especially if its installed already in the case and its a midi or normal ATX) cause the screws are near the center and the (in picture depicted as l2) sideways fin length is an obstacle 

The screw driver (besides thin enough so that you would be able to handle it) needs to be of length l1 (depicted in picture) in order for you to screw it hence the ability to change shafts is something useful (sometimes you need a shorter for example or a flexible one to screw from an angle) 



And there are many such scenarios its not that just this cooler has an issue and everything else in IT is easy to reach and screw without worrying about the space or length or lighting conditions. 

[DethNade]

I order a Screwdriver, Insulated Water Bottle and the Cable Ties 50-pack confirmed on Aug 30. It's now September 15 and I haven't gotten the packaging or hard anything on if its shipped. I even E-mail message ITTstore.com 3 days ago and got no respawned. I saw this thread and thought I would post soothing in here to see what's going on and if everything is, ok?