Don't Buy Everything I Recommend...

[Plouffe]

Should you spend your hard-earned money on an HD display from 2003? CRT had some interesting final days that not a lot of people experienced or even remember and we're going to find out what your retro games look best on.

 

 

[Vezuwey]

Hell nah, CRT gone, now this is just for fun. As video shown, OLED is better, for me, at least.

[Needfuldoer]

The Facebook group CRT Collective is going to have a field day with this video...

 

 

[jones177]

I had one of those big Sony TVs. 

It was 195lbs and came with its own stand.

At the time I bought it there no 1080i content and It was long gone before I played any game at 1080.

 

It was replaces by a 55" Sony LCD projection TV that was a disaster for gaming. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

I knew someone who had a 32" cheapo SD CRT, it pulled 1KW from the wall - good in the winter but a nightmare in the summer.

 

That alone makes it impractical given my 55" LG C1 peaks around 200W in comparison and still warms the room up.

 

I pretty much agree with Linus in the video, if pixel art remains crisp then it looks better on OLED (played a few Amiga games on my C1 thanks to the MiSTer Multisystem), but if it gets poorly scaled then CRT looks better.  But regardless, I don't have the spare nor care enough to get a CRT.

 

I actually used to play the Dreamcast and Xbox on a CRT monitor back in the day, they look terrible on modern displays.

[SolarNova]

2 hours ago, Plouffe said:

Should you spend your hard-earned money on an HD display from 2003? CRT had some interesting final days that not a lot of people experienced or even remember and we're going to find out what your retro games look best on.

 

 

"LCD sucks , it was an inferior technology from the get go"

 

That statement isnt said enough in the main stream.

 

I'm around the same age as LInus and i can CLEARLY remember the transition from CRT to LCD, and I can say without a doubt, early LCDs were trash .. i mean REALLY trash. Its taken 15-20 years for 'some' of them to get good enough to be considered a alternative if they were released back when CRTs were still king.

It wasn't until OLED that we can now say ok, OLED is ,for modern content, better.

 

But still,,,,really cant stress enough how trash LCD was and in many ways still is vs CRT.

One can only imagine the state CRT could be in today if the tech had been developed further over that time period, even just the miniaturization of components that has happened in the last 15-20 years would take some of the size and weight away and efficiency would have been improved. The depth could have also potentially have been improved similarly to how projectors were over the years.

 

There phrase "they dont make them like they used to" can be used in a lot of areas of our lives ...alas with CRTs ..its "they dont make them ...period" ..and thats a damn shame.

[Roswell]

Still baffles me how much misinformation gets into your average LTT video...

 

Did Linus seriously sit there with a straight face and say CRTs have "great contrast ratios" and that the black pixels "don't emit light"?!

 

CRT contrast ratios are abysmal, always have been. Like... 200-300:1 levels of bad. Black pixels also emit ALL KINDS OF LIGHT. Nothing is black on a CRT, it's shades of gray because of all of the illumination being diffused around/in front of said pixels. 

[bluesummer]

Still like CRTs just a little more than LCD, only problem is I can't find a good one that fits all my needs that doesn't require me to sell my soul to the CRT god. 

[Naveronasis]

Hello! I see my post made it in from like 3 years ago! Thanks guys. I have learned a lot about tubes since then and have over 70 of them now! I was actually watching the video on my first oled monitor! (A tiny 15.6" Portable 4k Oled) and was considering if I should keep it or send it back because I still like my CRT as much if not more! XD What a small world.

PS: That old post has a few errors and whatnot in it because I was still new to the technical CRT Details at the time but I am glad to see it had an impact

[Naveronasis]

5 minutes ago, Naveronasis said:

Hello! I see my post made it in from like 3 years ago! Thanks guys. I have learned a lot about tubes since then and have over 70 of them now! I was actually watching the video on my first oled monitor! (A tiny 15.6" Portable 4k Oled) and was considering if I should keep it or send it back because I still like my CRT as much if not more! XD What a small world.

PS: That old post has a few errors and whatnot in it because I was still new to the technical CRT Details at the time but I am glad to see it had an impact

Here is a recent comparison shot I took of my 15.6" Oled and Samsung 1100DF CRT.

 

[Hopper909]

well there goes any chance of me affording one, ive actually been chasing and trying to save up for one for a few years now. that and a crt monitor for my sleeper build.

[OU812]

*guards big CRT I saved from the dumpster at work*

[Luscious]

I was done with CRT decades ago. But what's really startling is how a tech focused channel forgets to mention the number one problem with using a CRT as a gaming display - BURN IN. I hate to ask the question but is Linus really that stupid because the young and ignorant excuse just doesn't fly anymore. You've got a team of 30+ people there - do your homework!!!

 

Even before the Amiga days, when gaming on an Atari 2600 there were plenty of examples of TV's getting burned in from static images. Heck, walk into any airport or government office at the time that used a small TV for check in counters and you would see where the screen got damaged from showing the same pixels continuously. CRT's are great for showing moving images, essentially what they were designed for in the first place, not so much static ones.

 

Then there's the issue of servicing and maintenance. The electron gun that fires the pixels has a VERY finite life. When that goes out your CRT is dead. I had this happen to my Amiga monitor but was fortunate to have a TV repair shop replace the worn out part. How long that replacement lasts for is just about as good a guess as how long that same TV shop remains in business  The dangerous part here is that all those CRT's for sale today at their grossly inflated prices are more than likely old/used stock with their guns at or near 90% of their life expectancy - dropping cash on one of these only for it to fail very soon after is no different than setting your wallet on fire.

 

I know more creative ways to spend big  so if you have too much of it feel free to send it my way 

 

You also know CRT's are big and heavy, some so huge they require their own stand/legs/cabinet. No way would I be placing one on my current desk, and certainly not when a pair of stacked 38 inch 3840x1600 curved panels gives me the ergonomics and work area to multitask like a boss on one screen while gaming on the second. Likewise you can forget me picking OLED when in fact IPS is the far superior technology for a PC monitor today. OLED's very much like CRT's are great for showing moving images, but suck for PC use and even smartphone use if you're showing the same static image or pixels continuously. I am stuck with the burn in on my Samsung Galaxy OLED smartphone after that less than spectacular experience.

 

Last but not least, CRT's are power hogs, can get incredibly hot, are are limited on just how big their screen size can go. That can be a problem when the room you're in is already toasty or the UPS/circuit you're on cannot handle the load. It's also impossible to go multi monitor because their bezels are over an inch thick. Even as a single TV in a living room, a modern 55 inch or larger IPS will be lighter, take up less space, run cooler and use less electricity than any CRT ever could. As an added bonus IPS still delivers on deep blacks so colors stay vivid.

[Guest]

The saddest part about this video for me is that we owned that sony crt forever and it worked perfectly, but when we went to dispose of it, or move it, it fell and got completely destroyed.... super front heavy.

[Naveronasis]

4 hours ago, Luscious said:

I was done with CRT decades ago. But what's really startling is how a tech focused channel forgets to mention the number one problem with using a CRT as a gaming display - BURN IN. I hate to ask the question but is Linus really that stupid because the young and ignorant excuse just doesn't fly anymore. You've got a team of 30+ people there - do your homework!!!

 

Even before the Amiga days, when gaming on an Atari 2600 there were plenty of examples of TV's getting burned in from static images. Heck, walk into any airport or government office at the time that used a small TV for check in counters and you would see where the screen got damaged from showing the same pixels continuously. CRT's are great for showing moving images, essentially what they were designed for in the first place, not so much static ones.

 

Then there's the issue of servicing and maintenance. The electron gun that fires the pixels has a VERY finite life. When that goes out your CRT is dead. I had this happen to my Amiga monitor but was fortunate to have a TV repair shop replace the worn out part. How long that replacement lasts for is just about as good a guess as how long that same TV shop remains in business  The dangerous part here is that all those CRT's for sale today at their grossly inflated prices are more than likely old/used stock with their guns at or near 90% of their life expectancy - dropping cash on one of these only for it to fail very soon after is no different than setting your wallet on fire.

 

I know more creative ways to spend big  so if you have too much of it feel free to send it my way 

 

You also know CRT's are big and heavy, some so huge they require their own stand/legs/cabinet. No way would I be placing one on my current desk, and certainly not when a pair of stacked 38 inch 3840x1600 curved panels gives me the ergonomics and work area to multitask like a boss on one screen while gaming on the second. Likewise you can forget me picking OLED when in fact IPS is the far superior technology for a PC monitor today. OLED's very much like CRT's are great for showing moving images, but suck for PC use and even smartphone use if you're showing the same static image or pixels continuously. I am stuck with the burn in on my Samsung Galaxy OLED smartphone after that less than spectacular experience.

 

Last but not least, CRT's are power hogs, can get incredibly hot, are are limited on just how big their screen size can go. That can be a problem when the room you're in is already toasty or the UPS/circuit you're on cannot handle the load. It's also impossible to go multi monitor because their bezels are over an inch thick. Even as a single TV in a living room, a modern 55 inch or larger IPS will be lighter, take up less space, run cooler and use less electricity than any CRT ever could. As an added bonus IPS still delivers on deep blacks so colors stay vivid.

You are blatantly wrong about burn in on CRT. The reason you would see CRT's get burn in at government buildings and arcades and terminals is because they were left on static images for 10k hours+++. Ordinary CRT use did NOT cause measurable burn in. Projectors were more prone to burn in but even most second hand projectors don't show signs of over-use in this way.

As a teen I bought my first TV, a curved Philips CRT with component input. I used it for thousands of hours playing Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube and PS3, then as a back up TV for over a decade without it showing any signs of burn in. I have used hundreds of tubes, collect, and repair them. Burn in is exceptionally rare.

Now as for service and maintenance. There is some validity to this claim. They are never perfect, and always suffer some drift in the geometric performance. These adjustments are annoying, but typically can be compensated for through service menus in 90's and 2000's sets but yeah, okay this is much more likely to be a problem.

Electron Gun life is typically 30k-70k hours for half brightness at a minimum and over 100-150k hours before the tube is so dim you need to adjust G2 or Rejuve, or Replace the tube. IF you are buying a tube to use as a gaming only, or retro only, display then you can go decades without hitting this mark.

The consumer TV tubes shown in this video are still often found for free. Only the PC monitor Linus bought is expensive because it is exceptionally rare and considered "best of". Yes, a rare tube will cost but any Toshiba AF, JVC D-Series, or JVC I-Art, Many Sony WEGA, and Samsung Dynaflat, or late RCA TruFlat can be had for free on a daily basis if you are up for no more than an hour long drive each way in any part of the US and most of Canada.

To the final points, yes they are heavy, yes they are size limited (up to 40" only) and yes they use more power than an OLED or LED, but LESS power than a Plasma.

[Gaires]

I used to work in a small recycling center and noticed this Sony Trinitron amongst the electronic trash, took it inside to test if it works and it did so I took it home with me.

I just use it for my retro consoles and for that it has been fine for many years now.

[Luscious]

1 hour ago, Naveronasis said:

You are blatantly wrong about burn in on CRT. The reason you would see CRT's get burn in at government buildings and arcades and terminals is because they were left on static images for 10k hours+++. Ordinary CRT use did NOT cause measurable burn in. Projectors were more prone to burn in but even most second hand projectors don't show signs of over-use in this way.

As a teen I bought my first TV, a curved Philips CRT with component input. I used it for thousands of hours playing Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube and PS3, then as a back up TV for over a decade without it showing any signs of burn in. I have used hundreds of tubes, collect, and repair them. Burn in is exceptionally rare.

Now as for service and maintenance. There is some validity to this claim. They are never perfect, and always suffer some drift in the geometric performance. These adjustments are annoying, but typically can be compensated for through service menus in 90's and 2000's sets but yeah, okay this is much more likely to be a problem.

Electron Gun life is typically 30k-70k hours for half brightness at a minimum and over 100-150k hours before the tube is so dim you need to adjust G2 or Rejuve, or Replace the tube. IF you are buying a tube to use as a gaming only, or retro only, display then you can go decades without hitting this mark.

The consumer TV tubes shown in this video are still often found for free. Only the PC monitor Linus bought is expensive because it is exceptionally rare and considered "best of". Yes, a rare tube will cost but any Toshiba AF, JVC D-Series, or JVC I-Art, Many Sony WEGA, and Samsung Dynaflat, or late RCA TruFlat can be had for free on a daily basis if you are up for no more than an hour long drive each way in any part of the US and most of Canada.

To the final points, yes they are heavy, yes they are size limited (up to 40" only) and yes they use more power than an OLED or LED, but LESS power than a Plasma.

I totally forgot about plasma. You are right, those were incredibly power hungry but you paid for it with some amazing image quality and colors. I'd hate to be the owner of one today though.

 

I want to disagree when it comes to the lifetime argument. Obviously the factory where they come from and quality plays a huge role. I've seen CRT TV's go well beyond 10 years easy (Grundig, Philips, NEC) with light to moderate use. Yet my old monitor was dead well before that despite taking the best care of it. Even my current IPS flat panel LG 34UM95 has required servicing once already in 5 years - a panel that's put under very heavy use. I am hoping I can get at least another 3 years out of it before I need to buy a new one.

[TeeJayPT]

One thing that is not ever discussed with crts is TV content.

They all speak about nostalgia from playing games we grew up with, but tv series were also very important back then, and also can be very nostalgic.

 

I have my Plex on my crt tv and it looks great when watching old series. Rewatching sci fi series from the 90/00 on modern tvs looks really bad. 
 

We could also discuss that all these family videos shot in camcorders look way better on the old crt than when blown up on the 4K panel.

 

plouffe that could be another video…

shoot and edit a video on old tech.

Have two teams doing the same ltt video, on old tech and other new one.

review the plus and minus of each tech.

check how they stand agains each other when watched in old vs new screen  

[Error 52]

CRTs are kinda cool but I think a lot of the discourse surrounding them drives me up the wall. It's true that games were designed with them in mind (obviously) but people love to take it to wild extremes and act like every single pixel placed in a game was perfectly designed and calibrated for CRTs.

 

Consoles had a billion different ways to output video and CRTs could look wildly different, and that's not even getting into shit like NTSC Vs. PAL. This image for example I saw being used for years and it always bugged me. Like, Nintendo probably made Zelda II on ludicrously expensive, high-end reference level hardware. It almost certainly did not look like the one on the right.

 

[Ashleyyyy]

I felt inspired to dig out some of my retro toys  

 

 

from left to right: 

OG Xbox Crystal Limited Edition

random CRT display I've had for years

and then all the way right my old 1998 iMac G3 running Pajama Sam

 

 

 

also can I just bring back some people's childhood? 
FLASHING IMAGES WARNING

Spoiler

 

[Ubersonic]

On 7/30/2022 at 8:27 PM, SolarNova said:

But still,,,,really cant stress enough how trash LCD was and in many ways still is vs CRT.

The problem is that LCD TVs were never really designed/introduced as a replacement for CRTs, they were designed/introduced specifically so that when CRT TV production was banned the people who couldn't afford a plasma TV could still buy a TV, that was essentially it.  Manufacturers have essentially spent 20+ years polishing a budget turd and to make matters worse the energy regs that banned CRT were extended almost a decade ago to also ban plasma TVs, leaving LCD the only option and forcing people to now pay silly amounts for a TV that doesn't look like trash.

[Guest]

On 7/31/2022 at 12:35 PM, Caroline said:

I'll title this one: millenials realise CRTs are better than mainstream LCD/LED displays after 22 years

 

Still using a tube monitor for this very reason, every new monitor I've seen in my country looks plain awful compared to my screen... black? what is black?

I have an HP ips display and it gets pretty black.
For some reason NVidia cards can't display black like my AMD chip does though which is weird.

... and onto the LTT video suggestions thread again hahaha

On 7/31/2022 at 12:35 PM, Caroline said:

best I can do is dark gray, every other colour is either too bright or too opaque, most LCDs top at a 1366x768 resolution and LEDs at 1080p, and prices aren't "budget friendly" at all, in fact they're insanely overpriced considering their low quality. Yes I'm sure a $700 4K OLED is far better than a CRT at this point but that's something I could never buy where I live, because it doesn't exists.

 

[AllTracTurbo]

On 7/30/2022 at 2:44 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

I knew someone who had a 32" cheapo SD CRT, it pulled 1KW from the wall - good in the winter but a nightmare in the summer.

1000 watts for a 32" CRT? I just looked up a bunch of manuals for different 32" CRT TVs and they were all rated around 120-150 watts.

[Alex Atkin UK]

8 hours ago, AllTracTurbo said:

1000 watts for a 32" CRT? I just looked up a bunch of manuals for different 32" CRT TVs and they were all rated around 120-150 watts.

I'm talking about cheap brands long before manufacturers even HAD websites, so their manuals probably never even got put online.  You must be looking at high-end brands or very late models, which weren't remotely affordable to most people and largely not sold in the UK.  In the UK, CRTs never even went HD (at least none I saw), we had already started moving to LCD.

 

Also bear in mind, this was the rating on the back of the TV so probably only its maximum surge current, I had no means to test its real-world usage at the time.

 

I'm not finding information on Google about any of cheapo brands that existed back then.

 

Given the above, I used to play Dreamcast then Xbox on a 19" CRT monitor, as it was the only thing affordable in HD at the time (and I got it from a computer recycler).

[papajo]

This video just showcases the negative sideeffects of the internet and how few people take advantage of them and pray upon others. 

I mean OC, customizing or using older tech that is in someways better or equal than the new tech  before everybody and her grandmah had a high bandwidth internet connection and social media accounts  was just a way to cut a shortcut in case you were money poor but had the experience/information to bypass that. 


So the quote unquote cool guys were the guys being capable to do that and that was the purpose of it (replace money with knowledge/experience to hack your way into a similar and sometimes slightly better experience) 


Now cause of mass media marketing in socials and forums and everybody having access to them etc people use this as snakeoil to sell overpriced stuff to kiddies and gullibles etc.


The whole point for modding my CPU and OCing was to to save the $300 gap of the higher sku but still having more or less the same performance

The whole point of me using a good CRT for playing my older games was to save up money because at the time equally cheap TFT/LCDs were crap and the only way to play my games and having them look nice in one of those was if I was to spend TONS of money for high end monitors. 



Now what is done is that you pay top dollar to have the factory (or the garage seller in case of the crts) do that hack for you which defeats totally the purpose,

There is NO real balls to the wall reason for playing with a CRT if its gonna cost as much as an top dollar 70+ inch OLED few pixels here and there etc a real man dont gives a sh1t its marketing fudge! 

There is no reason to OC anymore because A) all the SKUs come practically factory OCed anyway so there is very small if not close to 0 headroom for you B) in order to have that small headroom available you have to spend top dollar on the vrm the powersupply and the cooling solution 

"before" one was saving money but had same performance as the top models by buying a cheaper sku and mod/OC it

"Now" one  spends 3 times the money for acquiring the "bare model" in order to OC it and have like 1to 10% better performance compare to the "bare model" and still not being as good as the "bare model" sku sold at a higher price unless he gives up twice that money in cooling etc ... 


All this stuff literally got to the point of how to milk as much money as possible by promising an idiot he can be as cool as the cool nerds of the old. 



And that is just one negative aspect of the internet sometimes having all the people interconnected to each other is a bad thing. (This and the decadence of the film industry and the gaming industry)