Due to TSMC it looks like Nvidia messed up big time, expect delays on the 860,860ti,870,880 and titan brown

[The_Strict_Nein]

Buy a used 7950 on eBay or refurb/ open box. Or just keep the still very competent 560Ti until these companies release something worth buying. This blaming TSMC thing I suspect is only partly true, if Nv/AMD really wanted to, they'd find a way to move forward. What really is at play here is that retailers and warehouses are filled to the brim with 7xx series cards that aren't bought because it's not worth buying when your granny's GTX 470 can still play literally everything in the world - and AMD has just overproduced tons of cards to meet the demand left behind after the mining craze; but now every miner is selling their R9s used.

 

Don't play into their hands. If you have to buy, buy second hand.

 

Unlike Intel who actually have control of their fabs and can put the resources into overcoming fabrication problems, nVidia/AMD are at the mercy of TSMC. They can do literally nothing without pumping billions into building their own fabs

[geogga]

I loled at the people saying wait for maxwell and actually did

...that was me...

bought a 780, changed my mind to 660ti, happily waited until this...

*cries forever*

[That Norwegian Guy]

They would "find a way"? How exactly? By magic? If it's a yield issue then no one else is going to to any better, TSMC is THE largest chip fab in the world. If it's some other issue related to heat, performance, or general reliability then they can't just snap their fingers and make things happen.

 

The story they're going to stick with is not necessarily the story that is true.

 

"Yield issues". So vague, yet so force majeure sounding. Realize that these companies operate on contracts a long long time in advance. And there is a cost involved, and many potential clients (for TSMC) - then you see the veritable mountain of unsold current generation cards both manufacturers are sitting on. Nvidia because of their arrogant pricing, AMD because of the mining fad. Not to mention the lacklustre performance they are projected to have in some very looming game titles. Even a balls-overclocked 780Ti will feel like a 560Ti in The Witcher 2 for Star Citizen or The Witcher 3.

 

They are going to want to buy out their contractual obligation to sell their old cards. Yet, they can't tell you that. Do you have any idea the kind of shitstorm that would ensue if they went "OK guys, we haven't sold out our old cards, so we're going to not produce our next ones yet."

 

So, while I have no proof of this, having worked at a related-technology fab I would not be surprised one bit if they simply let the next client slip past them in the queue to sell more of their very-soon-obsolete units.

[D3MON]

I remember reading something like this on the forum..
[bitcoin mining raises prices]
"gamers, welcome to the green team"

so allow me...
[nvidia releases mining drivers and maxwell is a dud]
"EVERYONE, welcome to the mean team"

[Kyl3]

I loled at the people saying wait for maxwell and actually did

I'm still waiting, my 560ti will live to fight another year!

[Derangel]

The story they're going to stick with is not necessarily the story that is true.

 

"Yield issues". So vague, yet so force majeure sounding. Realize that these companies operate on contracts a long long time in advance. And there is a cost involved, and many potential clients (for TSMC) - then you see the veritable mountain of unsold current generation cards both manufacturers are sitting on. Nvidia because of their arrogant pricing, AMD because of the mining fad. Not to mention the lacklustre performance they are projected to have in some very looming game titles. Even a balls-overclocked 780Ti will feel like a 560Ti in The Witcher 2 for Star Citizen or The Witcher 3.

 

They are going to want to buy out their contractual obligation to sell their old cards. Yet, they can't tell you that. Do you have any idea the kind of shitstorm that would ensue if they went "OK guys, we haven't sold out our old cards, so we're going to not produce our next ones yet."

 

So, while I have no proof of this, having worked at a related-technology fab I would not be surprised one bit if they simply let the next client slip past them in the queue to sell more of their very-soon-obsolete units.

 

You are ignoring one big thing though: For the last two or three die shrinks TSMC has had issues. The problems TSMC was having with 28nm were so bad that people were convinced that AMD was going to use Global Foundries for their GPUs. What you suggest is possible, but it's as likely as TSMC running into yet another issue on a die shrink. As semiconductors get smaller everything gets exponentially more complex.

[Eroda]

This is the biggest problem for AMD CPUs. Even if they improve their architecture hugely they are handicapped by the process node. Trying to match Intel performance while remaining on an older process node is always going to result in huge, power hungry parts.

 

AMD doesnt use TSMC for their CPU's they use Global Foundries which are still on target for 20nm Q4 this year and have made a deal with samsung for 14nm FinFET

[AHaskin14]

Sometimes I dont get it. If Nvidia had released these along with the 8XXm's then people would go around saying "no nvidia nobody wants to buy your stuff every year" and now when it takes too long to get something perhaps better theyre mad too.

[Jamdude]

This is good news. I'd love to go back and find each post where people were saying there's no point buying a high end GPU at the start of this year because Nvidia had their 20nm cards coming soon and laugh.

[Gammawolf]

looks like amd will become the  best now

[Scionyde]

This is good news. I'd love to go back and find each post where people were saying there's no point buying a high end GPU at the start of this year because Nvidia had their 20nm cards coming soon and laugh.

 

I wasn't one of those people, but considering how the last two generations had the higher end cards coming out in the first half of the year, it wasn't such a terrible idea to suggest waiting a few months for the new generation/price drop on the old generation, IMO

[ACatWithThumbs]

looks like amd will become the  best now

This also counts for AMD...

I just don't believe it.

Their is no evidence that would back this up.

20nm is already in production for months!

They even have 20nm listed on their homepage as finished developed process next to 40nm/28nm.

And this would also have a huge effect on other companies and the stock market.

 

[carolkarine]

Called it. All of you people were saying 20nm Maxwell in the summer. I said that was a load of horseshit, and it was.

[Rageodontist]

Fuck............................................ enough said.

[gunsman]

TSMC has taken their time to get 20nm out the door, they are lucky they have little competition with GF who is still producing at 32nm. Should've been obvious, qualcomm's 810/808 with 20nm won't be out to for a while either

[GoodBytes]

The article is wrong.

 

The process has to be done ~2 years before the final result of the design cycle (called the tape-out process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out). Meaning the 20nm process has been already worked on, and Nvidia knows if it will work or not. the time period could be reduced if you throw a lot of money at it... but usually 2 years. ~3 years if its very problematic, and the manufacture (TSMC in this case), is having a hard time.

 

So either:

 -> The article is talking about another Nvidia chip later in time (ie: Volta)

 -> or, Maxwell was always 28nm all a long, and it was the RUMORS to be 20nm process, was wrong all along (this would explain why the 750Ti is 28nm)

[matin94]

nuuueeeee

[matin94]

The article is wrong.

 

The process has to be done ~2 years before the final result of the design cycle (called the tape-out process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out). Meaning the 20nm process has been already worked on, and Nvidia knows if it will work or not. the time period could be reduced if you throw a lot of money at it... but usually 2 years. ~3 years if its very problematic, and the manufacture (TSMC in this case), is having a hard time.

 

So either:

 -> The article is talking about another Nvidia chip later in time (ie: Volta)

 -> or, Maxwell was always 28nm all a long, and it was the RUMORS to be 20nm process, was wrong all along (this would explain why the 750Ti is 28nm)

make a new thread on this please. i want to discuss it, not many people will see this on the 5th page

[brownninja97]

The article is wrong.

 

The process has to be done ~2 years before the final result of the design cycle (called the tape-out process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape-out). Meaning the 20nm process has been already worked on, and Nvidia knows if it will work or not. the time period could be reduced if you throw a lot of money at it... but usually 2 years. ~3 years if its very problematic, and the manufacture (TSMC in this case), is having a hard time.

 

So either:

 -> The article is talking about another Nvidia chip later in time (ie: Volta)

 -> or, Maxwell was always 28nm all a long, and it was the RUMORS to be 20nm process, was wrong all along (this would explain why the 750Ti is 28nm)

thats interesting, i wander if this period has been greatly reduced to something as low as one year due to how fast nvidia is updating these days.

[ericlee30]

Awe crap Maxwell is when i was finally going to switch out my tri- HD7950's

[Heisenbleurgh]

Patience is a virtue guys

[The_Strict_Nein]

thats interesting, i wander if this period has been greatly reduced to something as low as one year due to how fast nvidia is updating these days.

 

Intel probably already have rudimentary models of Cannonlake working at the moment. The period takes a long time, but every one works ahead of the curve anyway

[flibberdipper]

Darn. I just hope the price of the 750 and 750Ti come down when they introduce the new cards.

[GoodBytes]

So, this is the source of the article:

http://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dcenter.org%2Fnews%2Fnvidias-maxwell-chips-gm204-gm206-legen-tape-out-fuer-die-28nm-fertigung-hin&edit-text=

 

So, all it is, is a site (3D center) basis it's "facts" on the news, from some users comment on their forum, which is HIS or HER ANALYSIS of the situation.

WOW. What a load of B.S

[digitalnav]

Did you not read? It said TSMC made a mistake.