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I want to love Apple, but they’re making it hard

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Time to see if its truly real.. HEYY 15 MINUTES AGO

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I have never, and will never buy an Apple product, and i always, ALWAYS, advise work colleagues, friends, and family to avoid them.

This is yet another example of why.

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I just made an account to post this because I felt like Linus failed to do enough due diligence to research this topic properly.

 

He was right to acknowledge that these aren't SSDs, but are raw storage modules with the controller embedded in the SoC. But Apple Silicon Macs don't work like x86 PCs, storage included. It's not an apples to apples comparison, so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

 

But don't take it from me. Read this thread from Hector Martin, one of the Asahi Linux developers that brought Linux to M1 Macs. I certainly think he knows much more about this topic than Linus...

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4 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

I have never, and will never by an Apple product, and i always, ALWAYS, advise work colleagues, friends, and family to avoid them.

This is yet another example of why.

If you haven't tried one, how can you know if it is so awful? Do your family members ever upgrade their storage or RAM (not excusing Apple's behaviour, but they do have a point in that regard)? The MacBook air M1 is actually a good deal, especially for normal users. For $1000 you won't find the same feature set. Since most users don't need a ton of power, and only care about how the screen looks, how the device feels, and how easy it is to use, it offers a great deal. Sure a $1000 gaming laptop will beat the thing (in GPU performance), but if you don't game, you don't need that much chonk.

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Just wondering. Would your perception of Apple change if they made it possible to upgrade the flash module, albeit with some specific instructions? How specific could we go without being unreasonable. Just saying, borrowing Louis's take, depending upon this maybe Apple's architecture design choices could be excused.

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1 minute ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

If you haven't tried one, how can you know if it is so awful? Do your family members ever upgrade their storage or RAM (not excusing Apple's behaviour, but they do have a point in that regard)? The MacBook air M1 is actually a good deal, especially for normal users. For $1000 you won't find the same feature set. Since most users don't need a ton of power, and only care about how the screen looks, how the device feels, and how easy it is to use, it offers a great deal. Sure a $1000 gaming laptop will beat the thing (in GPU performance), but if you don't game, you don't need that much chonk.

The M1 MBA is dope af. I have a gaming PC, high refresh monitor and the M1 MBA is by far the better computer for usability.

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Just now, Just that Mario said:

The M1 MBA is dope af. I have a gaming PC, high refresh monitor and the M1 MBA is by far the better computer for usability.

Yeah, I don't get why gamurr boiis think that everyone wants an 8 inch thick laptop with 2 hours of battery life at most. I have 20+ hours of battery life on average, I actually forget to charge the thing because of how long it lasts me lol.

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3 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

Yeah, I don't get why gamurr boiis think that everyone wants an 8 inch thick laptop with 2 hours of battery life at most. I have 20+ hours of battery life on average, I actually forget to charge the thing because of how long it lasts me lol.

I have a quality windows laptop that I can game on and when not plugged in gets me a good 8+ hours of battery life so who the fuck said all gamer laptops get 2 hours of battery life and who said everyone gives a crap about running their battery for days on end?

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6 minutes ago, EtHIChiL said:

I just made an account to post this because I felt like Linus failed to do enough due diligence to research this topic properly.

 

He was right to acknowledge that these aren't SSDs, but are raw storage modules with the controller embedded in the SoC. But Apple Silicon Macs don't work like x86 PCs, storage included. It's not an apples to apples comparison, so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

 

But don't take it from me. Read this thread from Hector Martin, one of the Asahi Linux developers that brought Linux to M1 Macs. I certainly think he knows much more about this topic than Linus...

Good information and reading comments I won't even bother watching the video. Perhaps some day when I have absolutely nothing else to do. Sadly LTT has been pumping videos out, but they all feel rushed and have lots of misinformation or missed points in them.

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2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

I have a quality windows laptop that I can game on and when not plugged in gets me a good 8+ hours of battery life so who the fuck said all gamer laptops get 2 hours of battery life and who said everyone gives a crap about running their battery for days on end?

I also said it was 8 inches thick. Ever heard of exaggeration? 

ex·ag·ger·a·tion

/iɡˌzajəˈrāSH(ə)n/

noun

a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is.

"it would be an exaggeration to say I had morning sickness, but I did feel queasy"

 

Plus when comparing 8 hours to 20, it still isn't much of a competition. 

 

Plus, how much did you spend on your quality gaming laptop? Does it have the QoL features that a MacBook Air does?

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Just now, DANK_AS_gay said:

I also said it was 8 inches thick. Ever heard of exaggeration? 

ex·ag·ger·a·tion

/iɡˌzajəˈrāSH(ə)n/

noun

a statement that represents something as better or worse than it really is.

"it would be an exaggeration to say I had morning sickness, but I did feel queasy"

 

Plus when comparing 8 hours to 20, it still isn't much of a competition. 

Oh no, I can't go fourty five years without plugging in, whatever will i do?!?! Oh I know, use a wall socket and plug it in now and again!!!

Of course I know what exaggeration is you dolt, seriously how about stop sucking for any side and use what you enjoy and fits your needs but don't act like your opinion, use case, and choices are the best because the fit your needs and you can't see past the balls to the needs of others.

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5 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

I agree. Do you think someone will be able to make 3rd party SSD upgrades that are also only flash modules essentially?

I don't see any reason why not, but obviously it all depends on exactly how and why the Mac Studios decide they don't like the configuration of storage modules plugged in to them.

 

If you read enough of Hector Martin's info there's evidence there that Apple source their NAND flash packages from multiple suppliers, so is it a case of the controller rejects a config with two modules with mismatched packages? Who knows. That might be it, that might not be it. But there's no way of determining that from the blinking orange light and nor have Apple documented it.

 

Either way though, I doubt we'll see third party options coming along without Apple's involvement or at least consent.

 

edit: fixed typo where I said "with" instead of "without"

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3 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Of course I know what exaggeration is you dolt,

then why 

 

9 minutes ago, Lurick said:

I have a quality windows laptop that I can game on and when not plugged in gets me a good 8+ hours of battery life so who the fuck said all gamer laptops get 2 hours of battery life and who said everyone gives a crap about running their battery for days on end?

 

9 minutes ago, Lurick said:

I have a quality windows laptop that I can game on and when not plugged in gets me a good 8+ hours of battery life so who the fuck said all gamer laptops get 2 hours of battery life and who said everyone gives a crap about running their battery for days on end?

Not what you showed literally minutes ago. Tell me, what else was I supposed interpret this as? You took my exaggeration literally. 

5 minutes ago, Lurick said:

how about stop sucking for any side and use what you enjoy and fits your needs but don't act like your opinion, use case, and choices are the best because the fit your needs and you can't see past the balls to the needs of others.

 

10 minutes ago, Lurick said:

who said everyone gives a crap about running their battery for days on end?

Feeling hypocritical today?

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8 minutes ago, EtHIChiL said:

But Apple Silicon Macs don't work like x86 PCs, storage included. It's not an apples to apples comparison, so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

What does the ISA of the CPU have to do with this?

 

Second since they are just flash modules, having to reprogram the controller in the SOC is reasonable. However it unreasonable that you cannot populate the unused flash module slot or install larger modules. We know Apple can do it because they sell them. So why can't I do it.

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29 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

I have never, and will never by an Apple product, and i always, ALWAYS, advise work colleagues, friends, and family to avoid them.

This is yet another example of why.

Personally, I’ve had good experiences with my apple phone and watch though part of it is there are great apps that I know aren’t on android like overcast and also my previous experience with android was so horrendous I’ve not tried it again in the last 8 years.

20 minutes ago, EtHIChiL said:

I just made an account to post this because I felt like Linus failed to do enough due diligence to research this topic properly.

 

He was right to acknowledge that these aren't SSDs, but are raw storage modules with the controller embedded in the SoC. But Apple Silicon Macs don't work like x86 PCs, storage included. It's not an apples to apples comparison, so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

 

But don't take it from me. Read this thread from Hector Martin, one of the Asahi Linux developers that brought Linux to M1 Macs. I certainly think he knows much more about this topic than Linus...

This is one of those topics I would have loved to see touched on as it feels like something often kind of overlooked to some extent in LTT videos with ISA/computer architecture and related subject matter not being a topic of focus most of the time.

 

I do wonder if part of it is not really having writers in that field of expertise as in techlinked the host and Riley didn’t seem to know about Xilinx

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21 minutes ago, EtHIChiL said:

so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

The ISA has literally nothing to do with anything here. I have 2 NAS devices in my home, both of which are using ARM SoCs (A Zyxel and a Synology), and by their nature I can obviously plug in pretty much any drives I want.

 

The on-package SSD controller is the special sauce here, so yes that's why you can't buy any old SSD and just plug it in - but does that mean you shouldn't be able to? No. There's literally no good reason for Apple to not make upgrade kits available. Nobody in their right minds will buy as much storage now as they're ever going to need.

 

In reality, with so many TB4 ports and how quick storage can perform over that, upgradeability isn't impractical/impossible, but should I have a Mac Studio (I don't need one) and my storage requirements grew, given the option to upgrade the internal storage or bolt on storage via TB4, I'd go for upgrading the internal storage every time.

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Apple does what they want with items such as the Studio and Mac Pro, the amount of customers that buy these products is not great enough to cause any serious backlash. So apple knows the people buying the Studio will cave to Tim Cook's ridiculous ways, since it really is a product like no other.

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47 minutes ago, EtHIChiL said:

I just made an account to post this because I felt like Linus failed to do enough due diligence to research this topic properly.

 

He was right to acknowledge that these aren't SSDs, but are raw storage modules with the controller embedded in the SoC. But Apple Silicon Macs don't work like x86 PCs, storage included. It's not an apples to apples comparison, so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

 

But don't take it from me. Read this thread from Hector Martin, one of the Asahi Linux developers that brought Linux to M1 Macs. I certainly think he knows much more about this topic than Linus...

This post was one of the main things that we wanted to cover in the video.  How it is not a normal SSD that you can expect to do normal SSD things.  That said, we showed that different flash modules can be swapped in and it works fine and there is no reason this computer shouldn't be able to accept more flash modules aside from a firmware lock.  I don't expect the process to be as simple as upgrading a normal SSD, but it is clear the only reason Apple locks upgrading is because they can.

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59 minutes ago, EtHIChiL said:

I just made an account to post this because I felt like Linus failed to do enough due diligence to research this topic properly.

 

He was right to acknowledge that these aren't SSDs, but are raw storage modules with the controller embedded in the SoC. But Apple Silicon Macs don't work like x86 PCs, storage included. It's not an apples to apples comparison, so you can't bring over x86 logic to ARM and expect it to work. 

 

But don't take it from me. Read this thread from Hector Martin, one of the Asahi Linux developers that brought Linux to M1 Macs. I certainly think he knows much more about this topic than Linus...

You didn't actually try and make an argument here - you just said "it works different". Unless your argument is that ARM doesn't allow for different size storage mediums which is absurd.

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56 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

Yeah, I don't get why gamurr boiis think that everyone wants an 8 inch thick laptop with 2 hours of battery life at most. I have 20+ hours of battery life on average, I actually forget to charge the thing because of how long it lasts me lol.

The world isn't split up into Macs and gaming laptops.

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Luis Rossman made a video on this topic too, basically acknowledging what was previously written that it's not your typical SSD with controller.

TL;DR: He's not mad at apple for this - at least not yet.

 

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1 hour ago, Paul Thexton said:

Meanwhile in the real world different people have different requirements from computing devices and not everybody needs (or even wants) a Windows PC.  Are Microsoft still putting adverts in the start menu? That started happening just before I stopped needing to use it, and I don't miss them.

 

As for the video itself, I don't really think Linus's frustration is unwarranted here. If Apple made the storage configuration modular to simplify their own SKUs, fine, but there's no good reason not to expand upon that and make upgrade kits available (either directly or through approved third parties such as OWC) to users who've found that their storage requirements have grown over time.

 

To not do that in the current climate of right to repair getting significant political traction is frankly tone deaf.

Shouldn't you be foaming at the mouth like everyone else? Such a nuanced take from an Apple user is impossible!

 

 

😉

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3 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Shouldn't you be foaming at the mouth like everyone else? Such a nuanced take from an Apple user is impossible!

 

 

😉

Oddly enough that post just vanished. Not sure what I did to upset the moderator. Oh well. 

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