Does Linus have any Certifications like CCNA, A+ etc

[LAwLz]

59 minutes ago, cmndr said:

Not worth the effort of memorizing things.

Not sure about the other exams you are talking about, but for certs like CCNA it is not about memorizing things.

I feel like that's another thing that people who don't have certs assume. Certs, at least the ones I got, are not like high school tests. They aren't "which year did this person die" and then expect you to just pick the right date. They are more along the lines of "this is the configuration of these two switches, why will it not work?" and you have to analyze the output. Or "if you want to configure multiarea OSPF, which steps do you need to take and which one of these are valid configurations?".

 

CCNA and other exams like it are not about memorizing things. If you understand the things CCNA covers, then you don't need to study for it. It's not a history test in high school.

 

Saying that you don't feel like taking the CCNA because you don't "feel like memorizing things" is like saying "I don't feel like taking a drivers license test because I don't feel like memorizing which pedal is the break and which one is the gas, or what the red sign that says STOP means, but I totally know it, trust me.".

 

 

I am not saying you, cmndr, don't know these things, but my interpretation of your comment and the comments by other people in this thread (and other threads similar to it) is that you don't really know what is on the exam, and as a result you can't possibly evaluate your own knowledge on the subject. People are terrible at evaluating how much they themselves know.

I feel like a lot of people who are against certificates are people who have never set their foot inside a certification center and are just making assumptions about it in order to feel better about themselves. Again, I am not saying that you are one of those people, but some of the comments you have made are similar to comments made by those kinds of people.

[cmndr]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

Not sure about the other exams you are talking about, but for certs like CCNA it is not about memorizing things.

A decent chunk of it is practical and having practical experience makes it easier to wade through the exams.

With that said, the fastest way to passing a cert is to get a test bank and to just cram through a mass of questions. Sure, you'll find patterns over time and even develop SOME understanding from the process, but the knowledge gain would be superficial to some degree. You can conceivably cram and have most things only superficially known while still passing many exams (CPA, CFA, etc.). At that level of understanding, you'll forget much of it within a matter of months if you don't review it. Heck I need to review concepts from undergrad for a series of interviews I'm doing in a week or two (4-5 hours of being grilled in a row).



With that said, I might have been tainted by the practice A+ test I took. They asked what the PHY rate for PCIe x1 1.0 was which seems pretty pointless to me. The only way I'd be able to recall what it was would be by working backwards from the fact that a 10Gbe card on PCIe 3.0 won't run at full speed (it's 8Gbps or so PHY and a bit less goodput)

[LAwLz]

2 minutes ago, cmndr said:

A decent chunk of it is practical and having practical experience makes it easier to wade through the exams.

I mean... No shit?

Not sure how the driver license tests are where you live but in Sweden we have a theoretical (multiple choice answer) part of the test as well as an instructor lead practical part of the test and you need to pass both. Having a lot of driving experience is going to help you pass that exam too. Just like having hands-on experience and having configured the things covered by the CCNA will obviously help you pass the CCNA exam.

 

If you have configured some OSPF network a couple of times then you will have an easier time understanding and passing both the practical as well as the theoretical part of the exam.

What you're saying is essentially "experience makes the exam easier" which is kind of obvious and exactly what you want from a certificate.

 

 

5 minutes ago, cmndr said:

With that said, the fastest way to passing a cert is to get a test bank and to just cram through a mass of questions.

In order words, the fastest way to pass a cert is to cheat. Again, I can't comment on certificate exams I haven't taken, but the ones I have all forbid "test banks".

Doing test banks is cheating.

 

 

7 minutes ago, cmndr said:

With that said, I might have been tainted by the practice A+ test I took. They asked what the PHY rate for PCIe x1 1.0 was which seems pretty pointless to me. The only way I'd be able to recall what it was would be by working backwards from the fact that a 10Gbe card on PCIe 3.0 won't run at full speed (it's 8Gbps or so PHY and a bit less goodput)

I haven't taken any the A+ or other CompTIA exams so I don't know for sure, but my impression is that A+ and a lot of the other CompTIA certs are actually kind of shit. I am not surprised to hear that they have questions like "what is the PHY rate of PCIe x1 1.0". 

 

If CompTIA is a high school diploma, CCNA is a university degree.

 

I think that analogy is pretty good because in high school our "IT class" was based on CompTIA A+ material, and at my university the first networking class was based on CCNA.

[Gamer Schnitzel]

Linus is a generic loser with no certifications and the reason why he knows so much about computers is because every job he ever had involved computers including his current one where he spends all day researching computer topics. He also does not "know" those things, he researches them. He also hires real nerds like Anthony who can tell him more about those things. Everything you hear Linus say in videos was written by someone else and he just reads it.

 

I think you have a very distorted view on who Linus actually really is. Linus is a celebrity and every single thing that you think you know about Linus is because he wants you to know. He could be a vile husband and beat his kids on a daily basis and you will never know because he does not want it to be part of his public persona. All public personalities work like this. There are even channels on YouTube by guys who act like they know everything about working out but later it turns out they're actually clueless and they have been nothing more than representing a company all that time and just said whatever they were told.

Stop looking at people on the internet that you see in videos, they are not real. Linus tries to portray himself as a "funny computer youtube geek". It's nothing more than his persona. Focus on your own goals in life instead.

[Needfuldoer]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I feel like a lot of people who are against certificates are people who have never set their foot inside a certification center and are just making assumptions about it in order to feel better about themselves.

The folks going "I have certifications so therefore I am a genius, you pleb " aren't exactly winning them over...

 

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

In order words, the fastest way to pass a cert is to cheat. Again, I can't comment on certificate exams I haven't taken, but the ones I have all forbid "test banks".

Doing test banks is cheating.

And the ones who do use test banks to brute-force their way to a certification only reassure the anti-cert crowd that they're right. (They tend to fall into the above category... My classes back in the day had a few MBA-types like this who were only in it so they could get IT management jobs. I'm sure they're raking it in by being the clipboard guy I posted earlier, much to the derision of their underlings who actually do the work.)

 

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What you're saying is essentially "experience makes the exam easier" which is kind of obvious and exactly what you want from a certificate.

This is exactly why a certification should mean "I know my shit and here's a piece of paper to prove it", not just existing to be wielded as a talisman of "this piece of paper says I know what I'm doing" false clout. Unfortunately, the latter is too easy to pull off.

 

Practical experience without certification means you have to be taken at your word. You can know what you're doing without a certificate.

 

Certification without practical experience is "book smart, street stupid". A certificate doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing.

[porina]

22 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I haven't taken any the A+ or other CompTIA exams so I don't know for sure, but my impression is that A+ and a lot of the other CompTIA certs are actually kind of shit. I am not surprised to hear that they have questions like "what is the PHY rate of PCIe x1 1.0". 

 

If CompTIA is a high school diploma, CCNA is a university degree.

 

I think that analogy is pretty good because in high school our "IT class" was based on CompTIA A+ material, and at my university the first networking class was based on CCNA.

I think the above is reasonable. As background: I have held CompTIA N+ in the past (let it expire) and have taken a course on CCNA but never took the exam. Both were paid for by previous employer.

 

N+ was part new to me. I had picked up a lot of stuff in my time tinkering with PCs, but I didn't know a lot of the networking specifics. The course I went on was a few days intensive. Some stuff I did before, like OSI layers. Some stuff was new, like subnetting. On the final day I went into the exam. One "memorisation" part was it asked what colours go where to make a crossover cable. Unless you do that every day, IRL you'd easily look it up if needed. No need to memorise it. Most other questions were more scenario based so I think was a better test of applying what you know. However the course didn't prepare me for much of that, and I mainly got through on experience. Of the group I went in with apparently I scored highest at around 90%.

 

Others in that group were also doing A+ at the same time. I had a peek at their course materials. I feel that I probably could have passed it without preparation since you pick up most of that stuff just from tinkering with PCs for years. Work was not paying for that, and I didn't feel it worth paying myself.

 

CCNA was another level. Some bits overlapped with N+ but it went much deeper. The course was a 1 week intensive, and I feel like it could have used much more time. To those saying it is Cisco centric, that kinda misses the point. Perhaps 90% of it is general or standards based, so easily transferrable to other vendors if you learn the generic name. There is an element which revolves around Cisco kit, and that's where I was lacking. I knew I'd have no chance to pass the exam without a lot more work on my part, so never took it.

 

At that employer, part of the company focused on network connected products. It was an expectation that everyone there working in a technical capacity would get CCNA. Not that you needed it before you get the job (it might help) but they would pay for you to go through the process. I didn't work in that part of the company, but the part I was in was looking at something similar, since part of our role then also involved network connected products.

[Rex Hite]

There's a condition called "credentialism" where inflated notions of formal education is used to control participation and hinder mobility. The qualifying process narrows and becomes ever more incestuous as the educated become the educators and so the qualified become the qualifiers. A type of certification inbreeding can take over the process.

A credential becomes a paper 'currency' whose value is determined by fiat rather than knowledge or ability.

A hundred years ago the fields of engineering and medicine badly needed credentialed gate-keeping. But like mission creep, there's also credential creep.

[Windows7ge]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but the way I interpret it was essentially "don't study for the CCNA, it won't be relevant if you don't use Cisco equipment" which can't be further from the truth. 90% of the CCNA is extremely relevant regardless of which vendor you use, which was my entire point.

 

 

I don't think you understand the point of certificates are, and you are mixing "getting cert" and "studying for certs" into one thing when they are completely different.

 

 

If you want to learn the basics of networking, you study for the CCNA. It doesn't have to cost a cent, because there are fantastic resources freely available online. So don't say "don't study for the CCNA because it costs money", it doesn't. You can self-study for the CCNA and you don't even have to take the certification test if you don't want to. My point is that you talk about how studying for the CCNA costs money and is full of proprietary stuff, when neither one of those things are true.

Studying for the CCNA can be free, and it certainly does not cover a bunch of proprietary stuff. Even the stuff it covers that is proprietary is still extremely relevant for other vendors. As I mentioned earlier, things like HSRP (which is proprietary) is so similar to VRRP (open standard) that if you know one of them then you understand the other too.

 

As for taking certificates, I feel like a lot of people in this thread don't understand their purpose and therefore just makes a bunch of incorrect assumptions.

Certificates validates your knowledge. Having or not having a certificate does not magically grant you a certain level of knowledge, but you can be sure that someone who has a certificate at least has a certain degree of it. The people advocating for self study instead of getting certificates are basically saying "why does a teacher need to do and correct tests? Why not just let the students estimate which grade they should get themselves?".

 

People constantly overestimate their own knowledge and understanding of things, and they don't know what is important to know. Asking someone who is self-taught to evaluate their own knowledge is like asking a kid in 9th grade to give himself his own grades. He will most likely give himself a way higher grade than he deserves. There is a chance that he actually deserves the grade he assign himself, but without a third party validating it we don't know if he does. The most likely scenario is not that he correctly assign himself the correct grade. The most likely scenario is that he overestimates his own knowledge and gives himself too high of a grade.

 

 

Also, certificates are not useless. I am honestly amazed that some people in this thread who claim to be consultants says certificates are useless. They are most certainly not, especially not for consultants. Not only are certificates from for example Cisco a requirement to meet certain partnership statuses, which directly correlates to things like what rebates you can get, but they are also a big part of what determines the price you can charge for your time.

 

Right now, I got 5 Cisco certificates and a couple of certs from other vendors like Palo Alto. Every time I got a cert, it was brought up while negotiating a higher salary. The certs I got were also used when negotiating the pricing for my time with my clients.

 

 

The amount of misinformation about certs, what they are and why they are important is astonishing. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp if people would just look at them objectively and not with jealousy. The people who go "hurr durr I got experience so your cert doesn't matter" are most likely the same ones who did poorly in school and blamed it on the teacher/tests rather than take one second to reflect on their themselves. Then when they got older they get stuck with some job and then get even more recentment when they see some bright new employee get promoted or a higher salary even though they have fewer years of experience.

Similar to politics this is a topic where we could go back and forth arguing all day long but by the end of it we're just going to walk away angry and nothing productive will come of it. So I'm really not interested.

 

Not to mention you've officially derailed from OPs original question which doesn't help anyone.

[whispous]

29 minutes ago, Rex Hite said:

There's a condition called "credentialism" where inflated notions of formal education is used to control participation and hinder mobility. The qualifying process narrows and becomes ever more incestuous as the educated become the educators and so the qualified become the qualifiers. A type of certification inbreeding can take over the process.

A credential becomes a paper 'currency' whose value is determined by fiat rather than knowledge or ability.

A hundred years ago the fields of engineering and medicine badly needed credentialed gate-keeping. But like mission creep, there's also credential creep.

Have met plenty of upper level IT people who clearly have never done a day's support in their life making decisions that technicians and users will hate. It's endemic. I call them "professional managers" and I have no respect for them.

 

You can always tell them apart from managers who DO know what reality is, who do have experience - they guide organisations to deliver good service.

[LAwLz]

40 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Similar to politics this is a topic where we could go back and forth arguing all day long but by the end of it we're just going to walk away angry and nothing productive will come of it. So I'm really not interested.

Or we could try and have a reasonable debate? If I misunderstood your points then feel free to explain them more thoroughly to me. I believe that I have been pretty fair in my replies to you so far. You said some things, I replied by posting things like the different chapters in the CCNA study guide that disproves what I believe to be your argument. If I misinterpreted your argument and you explain why then I am willing to reconsider my previous posts.

I feel like cmndr and I reached some level of agreement in this thread for example. Not sure if he agrees but I feel like we did. I'd like to do the same with you.

 

So far it seems like you are more interested in personally attacking me though than engaging in a conversation.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Not to mention you've officially derailed from OPs original question which doesn't help anyone.

*I* derailed the thread? I was replying to you. If anyone is guilty of derailing the thread it's you, not me.

It was you and Lurick that said certificates "doesn't mean shit". So don't go around and blaming me for "derailing a thread" when you were the one who did it and I am only replying to your posts.

 

If you didn't want the thread "derailed" then maybe you shouldn't have posted about how the CCNA is "practically useless if you enter a company to find they only use Dell or Netgear hardware". Not only is that statement utterly false, it was a comment you made before before I even mentioned the word "certificate" or "CCNA" in this thread.

[Lurick]

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

*I* derailed the thread? I was replying to you. If anyone is guilty of derailing the thread it's you, not me.

It was you and Lurick that said certificates "doesn't mean shit". So don't go around and blaming me for "derailing a thread" when you were the one who did it and I am only replying to your posts.

 

If you didn't want the thread "derailed" then maybe you shouldn't have posted about how the CCNA is "practically useless if you enter a company to find they only use Dell or Netgear hardware". Not only is that statement utterly false, it was a comment you made before before I even mentioned the word "certificate" or "CCNA" in this thread.

I should clarify my statement I guess? Certs do not mean jack in the context of certs alone nor do they mean you can put that knowledge to good use just because you passed the test(S). Combined with experience and practical application they can mean something for sure (and in a lot of cases help you bubble up to the top which I did mention) but by themselves they don't mean anything to me. I've turned down people who have their CCIE alone with ZERO practical experience because they couldn't speak to anything outside of what they studied and couldn't apply that to anything else. When I ask you about segmentation you better be able to talk to it more than just define it. I've also turned down other cert holders because they, on a VIDEO interview, tried to google questions we asked them. That of course doesn't invalidate certs or the people who hold them by any means but it does mean you need to be careful in how you approach those who have them on their resume and cannot treat them alone as the end all be all which is what I took the OP to believe them to be.

[Windows7ge]

44 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

So far it seems like you are more interested in personally attacking me though than engaging in a conversation.

...so you instigated me...and made childish comments throughout this "friendly debate" you say you want to have to see if we can find some common ground. Your words have maintained a tone that tell me you're agitated...and now you're pulling the victim card...

 

...This is why my very first reply to you stated I didn't want to start anything with you. I'm aware of your tendencies on the forum and would prefer to exit the conversion. I'm just bad at ignoring people who reply to me.

 

That's not to say I ignore all debates/confrontation. Lurick and I got into it at least once on an unrelated matter but we were able to resolve it. I just don't believe I can do the same with you on this topic. As I said before, certs are like the politics version of IT and I'm not interested in dying on a hill over it. Everyone can have their own opinion. Let's leave it at that.

[Pickles von Brine]

1 hour ago, Lurick said:

I should clarify my statement I guess? Certs do not mean jack in the context of certs alone nor do they mean you can put that knowledge to good use just because you passed the test(S). Combined with experience and practical application they can mean something for sure (and in a lot of cases help you bubble up to the top which I did mention) but by themselves they don't mean anything to me. I've turned down people who have their CCIE alone with ZERO practical experience because they couldn't speak to anything outside of what they studied and couldn't apply that to anything else. When I ask you about segmentation you better be able to talk to it more than just define it. I've also turned down other cert holders because they, on a VIDEO interview, tried to google questions we asked them. That of course doesn't invalidate certs or the people who hold them by any means but it does mean you need to be careful in how you approach those who have them on their resume and cannot treat them alone as the end all be all which is what I took the OP to believe them to be.

Agreed and very valid point. 

[tkitch]

16 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Walk into any Canada Computers and this will be proven to be a meaningless statement lol... Esp higher up you go in the chain.

Trust me NCIX, at least in Ontario was no better, they are sales driven not knowledge... I wouldn't trust a single thing younger Linus working at NCIX would have said unless I researched it myself before asking and double checking with them before purchase. Tho that is still good practice today, so you don't get screwed by corporate greed and sales numbers...

 

I was in the local CC not to long ago where they were hawking about a 2060 (not super I think) trying to push a sale with a 6600XT right next to it...

Linus wasn't a floor saleman, he actually worked on tech at NCIX.  So, yeah, it was actually relevant info for him there. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Lurick said:

I should clarify my statement I guess? Certs do not mean jack in the context of certs alone nor do they mean you can put that knowledge to good use just because you passed the test(S). Combined with experience and practical application they can mean something for sure (and in a lot of cases help you bubble up to the top which I did mention) but by themselves they don't mean anything to me. I've turned down people who have their CCIE alone with ZERO practical experience because they couldn't speak to anything outside of what they studied and couldn't apply that to anything else. When I ask you about segmentation you better be able to talk to it more than just define it. I've also turned down other cert holders because they, on a VIDEO interview, tried to google questions we asked them. That of course doesn't invalidate certs or the people who hold them by any means but it does mean you need to be careful in how you approach those who have them on their resume and cannot treat them alone as the end all be all which is what I took the OP to believe them to be.

That seems like a far more nuanced and appropriate take.

 

Not sure if you have read my other posts in this thread but it would be interesting to get your opinion on those posts as well.

 

The TL;DR is this:

1) The things covered by CCNA are applicable basically regardless of which vendor you work with, and that it is nonsense to say that the CCNA is useless if you end up working for someone with Dell switches. For a fairly up to date list of what the CCNA covers, refer to my post on page 1. 

2) That self taught people who do not have any validation are likely to overestimate their own knowledge. Especially if they have never been tested, for example claim to know everything the CCNA covers, but have never attempted to pass the exam.

3) That certs are very important because they can result in higher salaries and more job opportunities.

4) That the study material for CCNA is a great foundation for learning networking. Even if you aren't interesting in getting certified, doing a free CCNA course online is a great guide for learning.

5) That most exams I have taken, such as those from Cisco, are not about memorizing specific numbers, but rather actually show you have a deep understanding of the subject, with practical labs, troubleshooting examples and so on.

 

Those are the things I have said in this thread, in varying degrees of abrasive ways.

[Lurick]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That seems like a far more nuanced and appropriate take.

 

Not sure if you have read my other posts in this thread but it would be interesting to get your opinion on those posts as well.

 

The TL;DR is this:

1) The things covered by CCNA are applicable basically regardless of which vendor you work with, and that it is nonsense to say that the CCNA is useless if you end up working for someone with Dell switches. For a fairly up to date list of what the CCNA covers, refer to my post on page 1. 

2) That self taught people who do not have any validation are likely to overestimate their own knowledge. Especially if they have never been tested, for example claim to know everything the CCNA covers, but have never attempted to pass the exam.

3) That certs are very important because they can result in higher salaries and more job opportunities.

4) That the study material for CCNA is a great foundation for learning networking. Even if you aren't interesting in getting certified, doing a free CCNA course online is a great guide for learning.

5) That most exams I have taken, such as those from Cisco, are not about memorizing specific numbers, but rather actually show you have a deep understanding of the subject, with practical labs, troubleshooting examples and so on.

 

Those are the things I have said in this thread, in varying degrees of abrasive ways.

1) CCNA used to be pretty generic but I know for a time it started to focus more on Cisco tech than anything. I haven't actually looked at the latest exam which is a single test that covers all technologies (Wireless, R&S, Data Center, etc) under the one umbrella so I can't say for sure anymore how vendor specific it might be or not be anymore.

2) I would tend to agree, if you've not at least tried then you are definitely going to overestimate yourself probably to a more detrimental level

3) Depends but in a lot of situations it varies too much for me to say specifically. What I've seen is that it can help lead to those things though for sure, especially if your employer asks you to get them for more pay.

4) See point 1, it now applies to a broad range of tech which can be good and bad to avoid being too specific.

5) The labs were good, the big issue (and true with any cert that's popular) is cheaters which makes it so hard to keep things generic too since you have to constantly reword the same questions or switch things up much more. Doing that can help cut down on cheaters since they can't see things word for word and will likely be more thrown off compared to someone who actually knows their stuff though.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, tkitch said:

Linus wasn't a floor saleman, he actually worked on tech at NCIX.  So, yeah, it was actually relevant info for him there. 

Working on the tech doesn't make you a knowledgeable person about it lol... So yeah not very relevant...

Here I'll prove it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151130212029/http://www.linusmediagroup.com/history/

Quote

Starting out as a hardware enthusiast and working part time at NCIX, Linus rose through the ranks to become a full time sales representative, high end systems designer, product manager, to category manager.

enthusiast can mean many things, but it doesn't make you knowledgably or accurate. Being an enthusiast could be what I do which is build my own computers helping others with various issues etc, but never dab into the technical aspects of said products, therefore knowledge can be very limited.

 

Sales Rep aka numbers mater more than knowledge, like I said being knowledgeable doesn't make the company money, selling the most profitable items within the persons budget does. All a sales rep needs to know is this in a tech store: AMD socket for AMD processors same for Intel, RAM version for the board in question, and CD/HDD connection types (at that time IDE was slowly dying but still a thing). You know, the information on the box, quick google search etc. Simple things, minimal knowledge required.

 

High end systems designer, aka PC builder, aka someone who can screw screws insert things into sockets, design and maximize the profits within the clients budgets while making everything work and the company mad money. This only needs basic knowledge of computer building and know how to read the QVL, you know something that common home PC builders do, but on a daily bases. You don't need to know much more than a home builder who has built at least 1 computer to do this job.

 

Product/Category Manager, oh boy these are fun ones... You don't need to know jack shit for these jobs, you just need to know how to do your job, experience in the industry is a huge advantage however, but knowledge can be basic... You need to know what products sell, what don't and what are needed to be kept in stock regardless of sales numbers (like thermal paste). You don't need to understand the tech side of things you don't need to know anything specific outside of what a sales rep does (beneficial, but really not needed) about said products (as in you don't want to stock Intel chips and AMD boards only), your main goal here is to make the company money by maximizing shelf space with the most profitable products that have a high (or as high as possible) turnaround time. Don't know what a turnaround time is? It's the timeframe of how long it takes to cycle said products stock so something that sells once a month has a low turnaround and you may not want to stock much of it if at all (special orders exist as warehouse space is cheaper than the storefronts), whereas something that sells daily has a high turnaround, you want most of your store with a proper mixture of both that brings in the most amount of money with minimal waste. Simply put you need to know what your market will buy and stock that at prices that will sell and make the company money, someone with 0 tech knowledge can do these jobs.

 

Simply put working at a computer parts store doesn't make you knowledgeable regardless of time and position there, it just makes you a good business person if you have high sales numbers and go up the ranks like Linus did. Did he learn a thing or 2 from working there about computers? Sure most likely, but not the amount that people keep claiming, he likely learned far more about how to not run a business by working for NCIX (esp his last year or 2) than learning about computers and the tech inside them. If he learned way more than what is logical it was via self improvement and not on the job, but once again that then has nothing to do with where one works but everything to do with how one spends their time off from work. Linus during his downtime at NCIX was likely doing other things more than looking at spec sheets about Intel's latest greatest architecture, like oh idk pushing products up front on the shelves to make them look full, restocking etc. You know the basics of working at any B&M storefront... The company doesn't care about spec sheets, they care about sales and what the store looks like and likely expect you do other things instead.

 

Also FYI Linus was a floor sales man, he didn't just jump into some of the highest positions within the company by Thanos snapping his fingers as a College dropout  Maybe read up on your history before making bold claims, also even at those positions you are still a sales person esp if staffing is short that day, my local CC I see the supervisor all the time on the floor helping customers, regardless of position you are still a sales person in those stores, unless you sit your ass in a office all day and never leave.

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

...so you instigated me...and made childish comments throughout this "friendly debate" you say you want to have to see if we can find some common ground. Your words have maintained a tone that tell me you're agitated...and now you're pulling the victim card...

I instigated you?

You said some things that were wrong, I said they were wrong and posted evidence that they were wrong, and you replied that you don't like me as a person so you won't respond. Do you not see how there is a difference? I attacked the content of your post and you attacked me as a response.

 

 

6 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

I'm just bad at ignoring people who reply to me.

Same.

See? We can find some common ground.

 

 

6 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

As I said before, certs are like the politics version of IT and I'm not interested in dying on a hill over it.

That I agree with too.

People seem to have extremely strong opinions regarding them and get very emotional when the subject gets brought up.

I just don't get why you would make a bunch of assumptions regarding what is on the test without taking it. Why do you dislike certs so much?

 

I have already said my opinion on the matter, such as them leading to higher salaries, better job opportunities, covering really good and useful subjects (in the case of CCNA), and them being validation that you know these things (unlike self taught people who have no validation that they know the things they claim to know).

That I don't think self taught people are capable of judging their own skill levels but even if you do want to be self taught, the CCNA course material is still excellent and you can find a ton of free resources for it.

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

The folks going "I have certifications so therefore I am a genius, you pleb " aren't exactly winning them over...

If that's the vibe I am giving off then that was not my intention. Maybe I am completely off base, but is it possible that you might be projecting a bit?

All I have said is that certs are important and a lot of people have the wrong idea of what certs like CCNA are. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

And the ones who do use test banks to brute-force their way to a certification only reassure the anti-cert crowd that they're right. (They tend to fall into the above category... My classes back in the day had a few MBA-types like this who were only in it so they could get IT management jobs. I'm sure they're raking it in by being the clipboard guy I posted earlier, much to the derision of their underlings who actually do the work.)

But that's like saying "years of experience doesn't matter because sometimes people lie on their resume, so we should all just ignore years of experience as an indication of skill".

There will always be people who try and cheat, but we should assume that people are somewhat honest. You can't go around with prejudice against people with certificates because some of them might have cheated to get them.

Imagine if I started saying everyone with 5 years of work experience was a liar and didn't know how to do their jobs. It would be ridiculous, right? Same with assuming people with certs cheated to get them.

 

 

9 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

Practical experience without certification means you have to be taken at your word. You can know what you're doing without a certificate.

 

Certification without practical experience is "book smart, street stupid". A certificate doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing.

I am not following your logic here.

Who said anything about certified people not having any practical experience? Why do you assume certified people are "street stupid" but automatically assume someone without a cert is "street smart"?

[Needfuldoer]

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If that's the vibe I am giving off then that was not my intention. Maybe I am completely off base, but is it possible that you might be projecting a bit?

All I have said is that certs are important and a lot of people have the wrong idea of what certs like CCNA are. 

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to single you out at all. That was just a flippant, facetious take on the general "I know better than you because I have certifications" attitude I've seen time and again.

 

Kind of the equal-but-opposite of this:

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The people who go "hurr durr I got experience so your cert doesn't matter" are most likely the same ones who did poorly in school and blamed it on the teacher/tests rather than take one second to reflect on their themselves. Then when they got older they get stuck with some job and then get even more recentment when they see some bright new employee get promoted or a higher salary even though they have fewer years of experience.

 

 

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I am not following your logic here.

Who said anything about certified people not having any practical experience? Why do you assume certified people are "street stupid" but automatically assume someone without a cert is "street smart"?

I'm saying certifications and experience have a symbiotic relationship, both have more power with the other to back them up. You can have all the experience in the world, but without certification it's harder to prove it. Likewise, you're not going to learn everything there is to know just from reading books.

[Windows7ge]

33 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

People seem to have extremely strong opinions regarding them and get very emotional when the subject gets brought up.

I just don't get why you would make a bunch of assumptions regarding what is on the test without taking it. Why do you dislike certs so much?

Alright, alright. I'll at least explain myself here. Fair warning I am bad at using words to convey my thoughts and opinions. The way I talk periodically gives people the wrong idea.

 

This goes way back to 2013 & 2014. I was attending BOCES for entry level computer repair (can't remember CISCO's acronym for it) and CCENT. Both of which came with free CompTIA A+ exams at the end so you could be "dual certified" (what my teacher called it anyways). I took both. What I didn't like about them was both favored memorization questions about the course material and contained very few or any troubleshooting scenarios.

 

If I had to give an analogy, what good is memorizing all the words in a dictionary if it doesn't show you know how to apply them? How does that benefit anybody? How does that show you know what you're doing?. 

 

This is where certifications get political...can they be your gateway to landing a job and finding higher wages? Yes.

Are they the be all and end all that determine weather someone is qualified for a job? No. You shouldn't have to rely on a piece of paper to state that you know what you're doing. What's unfortunate is that's how a majority of the tech industry operates. No piece of paper? Not even worth setting up an interview. Not worth taking the time to talk and get to know your skills or active projects. Application strait in the shredder.

 

You mentioned that people who self-teach and don't hold certificates frequently over-estimate their actual level of understanding of a given topic. Let me be the 1% who doesn't currently hold a certificate yet CONSTANTLY undermines my own intelligence. It doesn't matter how much I learn I always get reminded of how little I really know. This makes me want to understand more and explore further but this just becomes and endless cycle of learning, being reminded I don't know everything, learning, being reminded I don't know everything, learning, etc, etc...It's actually kind of a problem I have and gives me anxiety...makes me feel worthless.

 

My beliefs about certifications are pretty in line with everyone else's I've read here. Certs & actual hands on experience support one another. With both you can achieve greatness. With only one or the other you're at a disadvantage. And this is where I was going when I said certs can be worthless.

[Needfuldoer]

1 hour ago, Windows7ge said:

You mentioned that people who self-teach and don't hold certificates frequently over-estimate their actual level of understanding of a given topic. Let me be the 1% who doesn't currently hold a certificate yet CONSTANTLY undermines my own intelligence. It doesn't matter how much I learn I always get reminded of how little I really know. This makes me want to understand more and explore further but this just becomes and endless cycle of learning, being reminded I don't know everything, learning, being reminded I don't know everything, learning, etc, etc...It's actually kind of a problem I have and gives me anxiety...makes me feel worthless.

Same. The most important thing is to not be satisfied with summitting Mt. Stupid.

[LogicalDrm]

19 hours ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

Linus is a generic loser

When you start with statement like this, it kinda drops credibility from rest of your opinion. Or do you call "generic losers" everyone you don't like, regardless of whether they have had some success in life or not? No, he doesn't have college or university degree of education. No, he doesn't have black on white of what he knows about the main content in his shows. Yet people like the content he makes, so clearly, "generic" and "loser". Just like the guy who spends all their money to booze at your local market.

 

As to point. I'm fairly certain Linus has done some studying after dropping out of college. But that was for entry-level business practices. Which might have been mandatory in order to own/operate business in their region. So basics, like bookkeeping, taxes, permits and likes. Before he hired Nick L. who has actual degree on marketing/business.

[COAGULOPATH]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:51 AM, Lurick said:

PLUS the fact that videos are not just off the cuff in most situations, they are scripted and researched in advance.

...This thread could have ended there. LTT is a show. It has writers.  

 

 

https://linusmediagroup.com/our-team

 

Linus has a ton of knowledge, but he's been messing with tech since high school. I'm sure he'd admit that his knowledge is a mile wide and an inch deep. Whenever he delves into something "specialist", it's with someone like Brian the Electrician or Anthony helping him.

[Egg-Roll]

3 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

Which might have been mandatory in order to own/operate business in their region. So basics, like bookkeeping, taxes, permits and likes.

Nope, maybe tax laws but that's why you hire an accountant every year and toss them your disaster of bills and invoices  I guess Linus got yelled at one too many times and decided to hire one on full time (likely cheaper too). So yea, a college drop out is fine to run a business, so is a high school dropout, no requirement necessary outside of money, said venture being successful? Not mandatory either.

 

Yvonne did the bookkeeping initially and how Sarah got her job if I remember correctly. For permits typically contractors can get those for you outside of the initial building permits (building uses are typically zoning bylaws and a nightmare to deal with, easier to look elsewhere, house ran businesses are typically fine with no rezoning requirements, to a point), but building permits are fairly simple here so long they are not structural in design.