Does Linus have any Certifications like CCNA, A+ etc

[Needfuldoer]

46 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

house ran businesses are typically fine with no rezoning requirements, to a point

Isn't that why they had to move out of the Langley house?

[LAwLz]

14 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

This goes way back to 2013 & 2014. I was attending BOCES for entry level computer repair (can't remember CISCO's acronym for it) and CCENT. Both of which came with free CompTIA A+ exams at the end so you could be "dual certified" (what my teacher called it anyways). I took both. What I didn't like about them was both favored memorization questions about the course material and contained very few or any troubleshooting scenarios.

But those are not CCNA. I am not sure what certs or courses you took but it seems like this entire conversation has been founded on a misunderstanding.

I think your poor experience with whatever class you took has coloured your impression of certification and exams in a negative way, and a way that it not an accurate representation of what I would consider more "prestigious" certificates. 

 

I just googled some CCNA questions and found a good example. This is the type of question that comes up on the CCNA exam:

Spoiler

 

This question is not about memorizing something like which order the coloured cables on an RJ45 cable should be terminated. In order to answer this question, and other CCNA questions, you have to understand how spanning-tree operates and which affects configuration changes has on the switch. This is the type of question that appears on CCNA questions. It's not a memorization game (unless you cheat by looking up potential questions and answers).

 

Here is another example:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

Are they the be all and end all that determine weather someone is qualified for a job? No. You shouldn't have to rely on a piece of paper to state that you know what you're doing.

I don't think anyone is arguing that they are the be all and end all.

The argument is that a certificate is better than no certificate, because someone who has a certificate has been verified by a standardized third party source, while with someone who doesn't have a cert you have less to go on.

 

You have to think about it from the POV of an employer or customer. Having a certificate is like having a degree from a university. Does having a degree mean that you are more knowledgably than someone without a degree? No, but the one with the degree has proof that they have passed tests that check their knowledge. The one without a degree is far more of a gamble if they know or don't know as much as the one with a degree.

When applying for a job, or arguing for a higher salary, you have to make a case for yourself why you are worthy of it. A certificate (or degree) is a third party vouching for you. It's very easy to say "I deserve the job because I know I can do it well, because I say so". It's a lot harder to have a certificate from a third party that says "they deserve the job because we have verified that they know how to do it well".

And of course, there are people who cheat, not just in cert exams but in schools in general, or people who lie on their resume. But that is certainly not exclusive to people with certificates.

 

We all rely on a piece of paper that states we know what we are capable of doing. This is not exclusive to certificates. Your resume where it says "10 years of experience" is one of the pillars that determines how much salary you deserve at a job. That is also a piece of paper, just like a certificate from for example Cisco is one of the things that determines someone's salary. 

 

15 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

No piece of paper? Not even worth setting up an interview. Not worth taking the time to talk and get to know your skills or active projects. Application strait in the shredder.

I feel like this is a very emotional topic for you and you are taking it out on me.

The fact of the matter is that applying for a job is a competition. You have to prove that you are better than everyone else that is applying. I get the impression that you are mad for "losing" the game of recruitment and as a result you recent those that have more evidence of their qualifications than you. Maybe I am wrong, but comments like these indicates that to me.

By the way, I got my job as a networking consultant before I had any certificates. I did however have a university degree. If someone who had a university degree and certificates had applied then chances are the position would have gone to them instead.

Recruiters want to hire the person with the most qualifications. That's how meritocracy works. I mean, if you are not satisfied with this system what do you purpose? A lottery where anyone can get any job based on luck?

 

 

15 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

You mentioned that people who self-teach and don't hold certificates frequently over-estimate their actual level of understanding of a given topic. Let me be the 1% who doesn't currently hold a certificate yet CONSTANTLY undermines my own intelligence. It doesn't matter how much I learn I always get reminded of how little I really know.

That's good, because that's how it should be. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. 

The issue is that VERY few people think that way, and it is impossible for a third party (like a recruiter) to accurately know and gauge which people actually have the necessary skills and knowledge for a job. That's why the recruitment process is built upon showing merits, of which a certificate is one type.

 

 

15 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

My beliefs about certifications are pretty in line with everyone else's I've read here. Certs & actual hands on experience support one another. With both you can achieve greatness. With only one or the other you're at a disadvantage. And this is where I was going when I said certs can be worthless.

But if they support one another then why do you single out certs and say they can be worthless (not to mention you said CCNA would be worthless if you didn't work with Cisco stuff, which is, again, completely false)? If certs and hands on experience support one another, would you say "experience is worthless if you don't have a cert"? Because that's basically what you did regarding certs.

I agree with you that certificates are not the be all and end all. As I said earlier, a university degree is also good, or years of experience. The more merits you got the better, and certificates are one type of merit. That's why I don't get why some people single out certificates as the greater evil that needs to be shit talked to no end. The same people would never single out "years of experience" and say the same things about that, even though they are both very relevant and valid forms of merits.

 

Also, most people will not be able to pass the certification tests I would consider to be "proper certs" without hands on experience. Not only do practical experience tremendously help prepare for the exams, a lot of them literally includes a practical portion in order to pass. CCIE for example includes an 5 hour long, instructor lead practical examination where a real life person will judge your configurations you are doing right in front of them. 

 

I would be very surprised if there is even a single person who has passed it without hands on experience.

[Egg-Roll]

11 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

Isn't that why they had to move out of the Langley house?

Possibly, there's 3 possibilities for the move. First is personal choice to go next level, other is with all the people he had no choice (living and working makes a house crowded with one/two people but with 4+ it's almost impossible, last videos there it was very crowded looking), the final option is their neighbours complained it was a cul-de-sac after all and with enough cars it becomes an issue. People usually move to cul-de-sacs for the false sense of safety (statically kids were more likely to get hurt or killed there by cars, at least in the USA) so when they see several cars show up for work they may panic and complain...

[Windows7ge]

11 hours ago, LAwLz said:

But those are not CCNA. I am not sure what certs or courses you took but it seems like this entire conversation has been founded on a misunderstanding.

I think your poor experience with whatever class you took has coloured your impression of certification and exams in a negative way, and a way that it not an accurate representation of what I would consider more "prestigious" certificates. 

 

I just googled some CCNA questions and found a good example. This is the type of question that comes up on the CCNA exam:

  Hide contents

 

This question is not about memorizing something like which order the coloured cables on an RJ45 cable should be terminated. In order to answer this question, and other CCNA questions, you have to understand how spanning-tree operates and which affects configuration changes has on the switch. This is the type of question that appears on CCNA questions. It's not a memorization game (unless you cheat by looking up potential questions and answers).

 

Here is another example:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that they are the be all and end all.

The argument is that a certificate is better than no certificate, because someone who has a certificate has been verified by a standardized third party source, while with someone who doesn't have a cert you have less to go on.

 

You have to think about it from the POV of an employer or customer. Having a certificate is like having a degree from a university. Does having a degree mean that you are more knowledgably than someone without a degree? No, but the one with the degree has proof that they have passed tests that check their knowledge. The one without a degree is far more of a gamble if they know or don't know as much as the one with a degree.

When applying for a job, or arguing for a higher salary, you have to make a case for yourself why you are worthy of it. A certificate (or degree) is a third party vouching for you. It's very easy to say "I deserve the job because I know I can do it well, because I say so". It's a lot harder to have a certificate from a third party that says "they deserve the job because we have verified that they know how to do it well".

And of course, there are people who cheat, not just in cert exams but in schools in general, or people who lie on their resume. But that is certainly not exclusive to people with certificates.

 

We all rely on a piece of paper that states we know what we are capable of doing. This is not exclusive to certificates. Your resume where it says "10 years of experience" is one of the pillars that determines how much salary you deserve at a job. That is also a piece of paper, just like a certificate from for example Cisco is one of the things that determines someone's salary. 

 

I feel like this is a very emotional topic for you and you are taking it out on me.

The fact of the matter is that applying for a job is a competition. You have to prove that you are better than everyone else that is applying. I get the impression that you are mad for "losing" the game of recruitment and as a result you recent those that have more evidence of their qualifications than you. Maybe I am wrong, but comments like these indicates that to me.

By the way, I got my job as a networking consultant before I had any certificates. I did however have a university degree. If someone who had a university degree and certificates had applied then chances are the position would have gone to them instead.

Recruiters want to hire the person with the most qualifications. That's how meritocracy works. I mean, if you are not satisfied with this system what do you purpose? A lottery where anyone can get any job based on luck?

 

 

That's good, because that's how it should be. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. 

The issue is that VERY few people think that way, and it is impossible for a third party (like a recruiter) to accurately know and gauge which people actually have the necessary skills and knowledge for a job. That's why the recruitment process is built upon showing merits, of which a certificate is one type.

 

 

But if they support one another then why do you single out certs and say they can be worthless (not to mention you said CCNA would be worthless if you didn't work with Cisco stuff, which is, again, completely false)? If certs and hands on experience support one another, would you say "experience is worthless if you don't have a cert"? Because that's basically what you did regarding certs.

I agree with you that certificates are not the be all and end all. As I said earlier, a university degree is also good, or years of experience. The more merits you got the better, and certificates are one type of merit. That's why I don't get why some people single out certificates as the greater evil that needs to be shit talked to no end. The same people would never single out "years of experience" and say the same things about that, even though they are both very relevant and valid forms of merits.

 

Also, most people will not be able to pass the certification tests I would consider to be "proper certs" without hands on experience. Not only do practical experience tremendously help prepare for the exams, a lot of them literally includes a practical portion in order to pass. CCIE for example includes an 5 hour long, instructor lead practical examination where a real life person will judge your configurations you are doing right in front of them. 

 

I would be very surprised if there is even a single person who has passed it without hands on experience.

Well...that was a lot to read. I'm thinking at least a little bit of an understanding has been established?

 

Addressing the still consistent question you are asking. I'm now confused...as I understand it CompTIA A+ is a 3rd party to CISCO yes? They have testing and certifications for CCENT, CCNA, I can't remember the order from here but I think there's CCIE CCNP, and Architect at the top...I believe.

 

Based on your question is there a cert for CCNA directly from CISCO? I think that's where the current misunderstanding lies. I'm only talking about CompTIA certifications. Took the one for CCENT. CCNA is next on the ladder. Chose not to take the CompTIA for that. If there's a direct CCNA cert the college never told us about it.

 

Let's see, two other questions...

 

Why I said certs can be worthless if it's not for the relevant hardware associated with it?...really don't have an answer for you. Best I can give is as I said before I'm not great at conveying my thoughts and opinions into words. I see value in learning one system especially if it shares similarities with others. I really can't give you a better explanation. I'm weird...

 

And your consensus on my opinion of experience be useless if you don't have a cert is actually pretty accurate. This goes back to employers wanting applicants with face value evidence of what they know. You can write years of experience or skills on a resume but it's an uphill battle if you don't have a relevant certification.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

Addressing the still consistent question you are asking. I'm now confused...as I understand it CompTIA A+ is a 3rd party to CISCO yes? They have testing and certifications for CCENT, CCNA, I can't remember the order from here but I think there's CCIE CCNP, and Architect at the top...I believe.

 

Based on your question is there a cert for CCNA directly from CISCO? I think that's where the current misunderstanding lies. I'm only talking about CompTIA certifications. Took the one for CCENT. CCNA is next on the ladder. Chose not to take the CompTIA for that. If there's a direct CCNA cert the college never told us about it.

Yes, I think there is some misunderstanding here.

CCNA is a certificate. It's called CCNA. It's a certificate from the company Cisco.

A+ is another certificate. It's called A+, or sometimes CompTIA A+. It's a certificate from the company CompTIA.

 

There is no "CompTIA A+ for CCNA" certificate or course.

 

 

 

When I took my Cisco certificates, I went to what's called a test center. Cisco, and many other such as CompTIA, uses a company called Pearson VUE to handle their certifications, so the test center has to be authorized by Pearson VUE to handle certification. There are a lot of Pearson VUE test centers in the world, and they offer certification tests for a lot of companies. I took both my Palo Alto and Cisco certificates at the same test center even though they are two different networking vendors, because they both use Pearson VUE.

 

A lot of these third party test centers also offer courses to prepare for the tests. When I took my CCNA for example, I first attended a 5 day course to prepare for it in the "training section" of the test center. Then when that course was done, I went to the "test section" of the test center and took my exam there. The instructors for these courses are often independent consultants but sometimes they are employees at for example Cisco, or CompTIA, or wherever.

 

What I think happened is that you went to a third party Pearson VUE test center (or a school) and took a course that was designed to prepare you to take the CompTIA A+ certificate, but with some extra focus on networking to prepare for CCENT as well. That's not an official course from either Cisco or CompTIA, but it might be something your test center did themselves.

 

That's probably why your teacher talked about "dual certified". You took a custom course that came with two free certification vouches. One for CompTIA A+ and one for the CCENT exam (probably exam 100-101).

 

 

Edit:

I also remember you mentioning "passing the course" earlier. I would like to add that passing a course is not the same as getting certified.

The author of this study from 2014 interviewed a Cisco Curriculum coordinator at a university, which said the approximate pass rate for students attempting the CCNA was under 5%.

Quote

At East Carolina University, our ICT curriculum requires an attempt at the CCNA certification prior to exiting the class, accounting for 26 percent of the overall 105 responses. From a brief interview of the Cisco Curriculum coordinator in our department, the approximate pass rate for students in the ICTN 2158 Computer Network Technology class attempting the CCNA certification exam for the first time was under 5 percent.

 

In other words, less than 5% of university students were able to pass the CCNA exam on the first try, and that's for students that are studying networking at university.

Passing a class is a much lower bar than getting certified, and that's why certificates hold so much value in the industry.

[Windows7ge]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Yes, I think there is some misunderstanding here.

CCNA is a certificate. It's called CCNA. It's a certificate from the company Cisco.

A+ is another certificate. It's called A+, or sometimes CompTIA A+. It's a certificate from the company CompTIA.

 

There is no "CompTIA A+ for CCNA" certificate or course.

 

 

 

When I took my Cisco certificates, I went to what's called a test center. Cisco, and many other such as CompTIA, uses a company called Pearson VUE to handle their certifications, so the test center has to be authorized by Pearson VUE to handle certification. There are a lot of Pearson VUE test centers in the world, and they offer certification tests for a lot of companies. I took both my Palo Alto and Cisco certificates at the same test center even though they are two different networking vendors, because they both use Pearson VUE.

 

A lot of these third party test centers also offer courses to prepare for the tests. When I took my CCNA for example, I first attended a 5 day course to prepare for it in the "training section" of the test center. Then when that course was done, I went to the "test section" of the test center and took my exam there. The instructors for these courses are often independent consultants but sometimes they are employees at for example Cisco, or CompTIA, or wherever.

 

What I think happened is that you went to a third party Pearson VUE test center (or a school) and took a course that was designed to prepare you to take the CompTIA A+ certificate, but with some extra focus on networking to prepare for CCENT as well. That's not an official course from either Cisco or CompTIA, but it might be something your test center did themselves.

 

That's probably why your teacher talked about "dual certified". You took a custom course that came with two free certification vouches. One for CompTIA A+ and one for the CCENT exam (probably exam 100-101).

 

 

Edit:

I also remember you mentioning "passing the course" earlier. I would like to add that passing a course is not the same as getting certified.

The author of this study from 2014 interviewed a Cisco Curriculum coordinator at a university, which said the approximate pass rate for students attempting the CCNA was under 5%.

 

In other words, less than 5% of university students were able to pass the CCNA exam on the first try, and that's for students that are studying networking at university.

Passing a class is a much lower bar than getting certified, and that's why certificates hold so much value in the industry.

Yep. So that was a chunk of the confusion. BOCES used a CCENT curriculum. There was no CCENT certification test. Only CompTIA was offered.

 

College used a CCNA curriculum. There was no CCNA certification mentioned. They only spoke about CompTIA certification for CCNA.

 

You mention Person VUE. I remember that name but I can't recall how it pertained to my classes. We used their website either for unit tests or...I really can't remember. This was a fair number of years ago...

 

So you took direct CISCO Certification tests. My gripe is with how CompTIA either setup or delivered their certification tests for the CISCO curriculums.

[LAwLz]

21 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Yep. So that was a chunk of the confusion. BOCES used a CCENT curriculum. There was no CCENT certification test. Only CompTIA was offered.

 

College used a CCNA curriculum. There was no CCNA certification mentioned. They only spoke about CompTIA certification for CCNA.

 

You mention Person VUE. I remember that name but I can't recall how it pertained to my classes. We used their website either for unit tests or...I really can't remember. This was a fair number of years ago...

 

So you took direct CISCO Certification tests. My gripe is with how CompTIA either setup or delivered their certification tests for the CISCO curriculums.

That would explain our differing opinions, if your experience was with the CompTIA.

I can't really comment on CompTIA certificates since I don't have any myself, but I have heard mixed things about them. My experience are mostly with Cisco certificates such as CCNA, and the things you described were just completely different from what I experienced, hence why i replied. Turns out we were talking about two different things and we both might be right, just not about the same thing.

 

Glad we could come to a somewhat mutual understanding in the end. I hope I wasn't too mean in my replies.

[Windows7ge]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That would explain our differing opinions, if your experience was with the CompTIA.

I can't really comment on CompTIA certificates since I don't have any myself, but I have heard mixed things about them. My experience are mostly with Cisco certificates such as CCNA, and the things you described were just completely different from what I experienced, hence why i replied. Turns out we were talking about two different things and we both might be right, just not about the same thing.

 

Glad we could come to a somewhat mutual understanding in the end. I hope I wasn't too mean in my replies.

I liked the CISCO classes/curriculum. I might take a couple more in fact. Not a big fan of Packet Tracer though. It's just not for me as a learning tool so I'm tempted to just strait up buy a few 1941's & 2960's off eBay since that's what the classes had us using for the VERY few/limited hands-on labs. I guess it's just not economic for them to do more hands on learning which is what I need unfortunately. Faking it with software breaks the immersion and doesn't help me nearly as much.

 

 

If you're fresh out of high school and have no practical hand on experience I'm OK with saying go CompTIA if your school is paying for it. That will help land you a starter job. If you're already 5, 7, 10 years into your career I don't recommend CompTIA. But you're already aware of my bias so take the opinion with a grain of salt. I've also heard mixed opinions on CompTIA where some employers don't even acknowledge them as being worth anything. Better going for the actual CCENT or CCNA certs.

 

And of the 6 years I've been on the forum I've had conversations go further south faster and with uglier endings. If I had criticism though I'd say avoid phrases like these in the future:

Quote

This is total and utter rubbish.

 

hurr durr I got experience so your cert doesn't matter

These really made you come off as an arrogant jerk who just happens to know what they're talking about. Immediately why I wanted to exit the conversation cause I didn't want to put up with it.

 

By all means if I say something stupid correct me. It makes me learn fast but your choice of words near the beginning really didn't make me want to acknowledge anything you had to say.

[Needfuldoer]

43 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I can't really comment on CompTIA certificates since I don't have any myself, but I have heard mixed things about them.

I took the "old" A+, back around 2006. It was a written test with textbook and practical questions, starting to get dated but still covered relevant fundamentals. (It asked about resolving IRQ conflicts in non-PnP systems and what different ISDN channels were for, but also had topics that still haven't changed time division multiplexing and subnetting.)

 

I just pulled up a batch of Core 220-1001 and 220-1002 sample questions, and the vast majority are just end-user support smartphone basics. A couple ask you which command line tool to run if you can ping a server across the Internet but not access it by hostname.

 

9 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Not a big fan of Packet Tracer though.

GNS3 is free, you just have to feed it some firmware images to run.

 

Agreed that there's something cathartic about getting real devices talking to each other, though. I've got an old 2821 and a 2621 I've been meaning to do more with.

[Windows7ge]

13 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

GNS3 is free, you just have to feed it some firmware images to run.

 

Agreed that there's something cathartic about getting real devices talking to each other, though. I've got an old 2821 and a 2621 I've been meaning to do more with.

For me the thing is I'm a hands-on learner which seems to unfortunately be either a minority group of people or schools seem to orient their curriculum mostly around whatever's more economic for their establishment (ie. very little hands-on).

 

Traditional class-room environment learning isn't for me. I really need to be able to touch something to gain an understanding of it. I mean speaking of hostnames I plan on setting up a local DNS server soon using UNIX. Should be a fun adventure. Never done that before. 

[leadeater]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:19 PM, cmndr said:

With that said, I might have been tainted by the practice A+ test I took.

I see there are lots of comments about A+ from many people, just chosen yours at this point but anyway there is something quite important. A+ as a certification and the test itself is extremely basic and a lot of it is just recalling facts/information along with very obvious logical problem solving. As a certification it's very low end, to the point that many have the opinion it's useless even to the point of not even getting a foot in the door anymore. I'm one of those, maybe not fully to the extent of not getting a foot in the door, but as a person who did A+ way back in 2005 I will attested it has been less useful than toilet paper to me and my situation. However I did it in high school and as a school subject and course it was fantastic, so there is a right time and place to learn it/do it in my view.

 

Comparing A+ to CCNA is like comparing making toast to making a Soufflé.

 

Now I'm really not trying to disparage anyone wanting to or currently studying to pass A+, everyone has to start somewhere, just understand how lowly regarded A+ actually is. Don't stop at A+ it's not enough to really get noticed.

[trag1c]

16 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

For me the thing is I'm a hands-on learner which seems to unfortunately be either a minority group of people or schools seem to orient their curriculum mostly around whatever's more economic for their establishment (ie. very little hands-on).

 

Traditional class-room environment learning isn't for me. I really need to be able to touch something to gain an understanding of it. I mean speaking of hostnames I plan on setting up a local DNS server soon using UNIX. Should be a fun adventure. Never done that before. 

The uni program I am in currently offers a lot of hands on. Two of the earlier course are heavily based on CompTIA A+ for hardware and CCNA for a networking course (you dont get the certs though). They both involved hands on with equipment which was cool for the networking course but the A+ is basically useless if you've ever built a computer before and have ever done any diagnostics of any kind.

 

Networking was a lot of playing around with Cisco routers and Switches among other things as well as a bunch of simulation software like packet tracer. (There was another more advanced one that I can't recall the name of right now)

[cmndr]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I see there are lots of comments about A+ from many people, just chosen yours at this point but anyway there is something quite important. A+ as a certification and the test itself is extremely basic and a lot of it is just recalling facts/information along with very obvious logical problem solving. As a certification it's very low end, to the point that many have the opinion it's useless even to the point of not even getting a foot in the door anymore. I'm one of those, maybe not fully to the extend of not getting a foot in the door, but as a person who did A+ way back in 2005 I will attested it has been less useful than toilet paper to me and my situation. However I did it in high school and as a school subject and course it was fantastic, so there is a right time and place to learn it/do it in my view.

 

Comparing A+ to CCNA is like comparing making toast to making a Soufflé.

 

Now I'm really not trying to disparage anyone wanting to or currently studying to pass A+, everyone has to start somewhere, just understand how lowly regarded A+ actually is. Don't stop at A+ it's not enough to really get noticed.

For what it's worth, I'm well aware that the A+ won't do much for my resume. It's also very possible that I conflated Network+ videos from Professor Messer.

I also view most "careerism" stuff in terms of resume impact. I already have "better things" on my resume than entry level certs and I'm taking off things like "was involved in $500M project" and "SVP designated me lead of department-level initiative" that a 22 year old careerist would SALIVATE for on their resume.

The only way I would personally bother with the A+ would be if I hit my retirement goal and want to do entry level tech support for fun for like... 15 hours a week just to pass time.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, cmndr said:

For what it's worth, I'm well aware that the A+ won't do much for my resume.

Basically everyone in and already working in IT knows this, it's the ones wanting to enter that aren't really sure how useful it actually is. Sadly to be considered actually good and competent in a roll like desktop support actually has an extremely broad level of knowledge required and at more than basic levels of understanding. A lot more than many realize or give credit for. I would however say a large proportion of people in a such a roll do not measure up to that standard, which isn't a problem unless they are not improving with experience.

 

I try to not let it bother me but when I have to deal with such a person in that roll that frankly is not competent is frustrating. It's really hard not to just do their job for them to get whatever it is you are working on that requires them done. Arghhh.

 

I enjoy teaching people new things and making them more effective at their job but when you encounter someone with the absorption ability of a brick then yea.... much pain for me lol

[cmndr]

26 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Basically everyone in and already working in IT knows this, it's the ones wanting to enter that aren't really sure how useful it actually is.

Getting experience is "fun"

I'm at the conclusion that pretty much every teenager needs to be doing volunteer work for free for at least 20ish hours just so they have resume filler they can work off of... which then allows access to better experiences and then... there's a snowball effect.

Volunteer work can be open source work, being a mod on a tech support forum, helping at a church or hospital or non-profit, etc.
After that the next step can be something like Geek Squad or Apple "genius" (or at least a retail job dealing with electronics).
Then something like campus IT... then some internship... then a better internship... or an "it residency program"

For what it's worth one of the interns I managed was a Google IT resident. It's not a bad gig, it's something like $80,000 a year and it gets Google on your resume.

 

On 2/22/2022 at 5:14 AM, LAwLz said:

I would be very surprised if there is even a single person who has passed it without hands on experience.

You'd be surprised at what people can accomplish with a bit of practice and grinding.

I passed a Google coding interview in a language (SQL) I'd never used in any significant way. My friend who referred me ALSO did. It was basically just knock out a bunch of leetcode practice.

[Needfuldoer]

1 hour ago, cmndr said:

Getting experience is "fun"

Indeed it is.

 

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, cmndr said:

You'd be surprised at what people can accomplish with a bit of practice and grinding.

I passed a Google coding interview in a language (SQL) I'd never used in any significant way. My friend who referred me ALSO did. It was basically just knock out a bunch of leetcode practice.

Again, you are comparing apples and oranges.

A coding interview for some internship is not the same as the certificate exams I was talking about.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

A+ as a certification and the test itself is extremely basic and a lot of it is just recalling facts/information along with very obvious logical problem solving. As a certification it's very low end, to the point that many have the opinion it's useless even to the point of not even getting a foot in the door anymore.

That's what I wanted to say but since I was already accused of being a certificate snob I felt like me saying it would just turn people even more against me.

Not all certificates are the same, just like not all forms of education are the same.

Having good grades in high school is not the same as having a university degree, and an associate degree from a university is not as prestigious as having a PhD.

Likewise, a "low tier" certificate like A+ is not as valuable as having let's say a CCNA. You can't judge "certificates" as a single thing, which is a mistake I feel like a lot of people in this thread have done.

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

A coding interview for some internship is not the same as the certificate exams I was talking about.

Full time experienced hire role paying over $200,000 USD.

[Windows7ge]

5 hours ago, trag1c said:

The uni program I am in currently offers a lot of hands on. Two of the earlier course are heavily based on CompTIA A+ for hardware and CCNA for a networking course (you dont get the certs though). They both involved hands on with equipment which was cool for the networking course but the A+ is basically useless if you've ever built a computer before and have ever done any diagnostics of any kind.

 

Networking was a lot of playing around with Cisco routers and Switches among other things as well as a bunch of simulation software like packet tracer. (There was another more advanced one that I can't recall the name of right now)

Then I guess it's just the fact I attend a very low budget state funded college. Can't afford 20~25K a year but I can afford some eBay 2nd hand switches & routers.

[Windows7ge]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

I enjoy teaching people new things and making them more effective at their job but when you encounter someone with the absorption ability of a brick then yea.... much pain for me lol

So basically every time I've poked you with a question when something I did wasn't working.

 

[trag1c]

8 hours ago, Windows7ge said:

Then I guess it's just the fact I attend a very low budget state funded college. Can't afford 20~25K a year but I can afford some eBay 2nd hand switches & routers.

Lol. Luckily for me since it's Canada, it's a publicly funded University so it's subsidized education costs. I'm paying 4k a semester with a total of 3 semesters in the year, one of which is supposed to be a semester break. So it's only 8000 $ CAD for the year. It's a 2 year diploma so probably by the time everything is said and done it will be $20k.

[12345678]

eh certifications are usually used to constrain the market, unless you do really need them, I would not support them

 

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, cmndr said:

Full time experienced hire role paying over $200,000 USD.

Yeah, sure. 

Even if that's true it's still an apples to oranges comparison. 

[cmndr]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Yeah, sure. 

Even if that's true it's still an apples to oranges comparison. 

I kind of view certs in the same way that I view degrees. Like... work experience helps (made grad school easier for me).

But a reasonably bright person can power through them.

Same story with the CPA, CFA, etc.
 

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, cmndr said:

I kind of view certs in the same way that I view degrees. Like... work experience helps (made grad school easier for me).

But a reasonably bright person can power through them.

Same story with the CPA, CFA, etc.

That might be true for lower tier certificates like A+, but I assure you that it is not true for the higher tier ones like CCIE. It's not something you can "power through".

Again, not all certificates are the same.