Got my studio headphones, now what?

[PopsicleHustler]

Hi all. Sometime ago I made a post asking about high end open back headphones and dacs/amps for them. I ended up getting Audio Technica R70X and Fiio K5 Pro.

 

I've been playing with them for a couple of days and ......fuck. That sound is mindblowing. Coming from 50 euro Razer Krakens to 500 euro audio setup is a dream in itself, but I didn't expect this improvement. Songs, gaming, movies, everything sounds insane. Now I truly understand the full extend of people hating on "gaming" headsets and their BS features. This is superior in every way possible.

 

ANYWAY enough of me screaming like a little girl.

 

So I have some questions about properly setting everything up.

 

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

 

Is there anything else that I could use to improve audio? Like doldy atmos for windows and its equalizer?

 

Any tips are welcome.

[The Torrent]

EqualizerAPO and check out Oratory1990's Harman Curve profiles on reddit.

[Bitter]

26 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

I ended up getting Audio Technica R70X

Now plug them into your phone and listen to Spotify at the gym!

[DoctorNick]

28 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

 

 

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

 

Bit is resolution. 24 is better than 16. Yes 48khz is enough for most content. Most games, yt, music streaming movies etc is 48khz. You cant really hear a difference if you select 96khz over 48.

[LionSpeck]

28 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

Hi all. Sometime ago I made a post asking about high end open back headphones and dacs/amps for them. I ended up getting Audio Technica R70X and Fiio K5 Pro.

 

I've been playing with them for a couple of days and ......fuck. That sound is mindblowing. Coming from 50 euro Razer Krakens to 500 euro audio setup is a dream in itself, but I didn't expect this improvement. Songs, gaming, movies, everything sounds insane. Now I truly understand the full extend of people hating on "gaming" headsets and their BS features. This is superior in every way possible.

Hey, congrats!
 

28 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use?

You should use 24-bit; although the difference is literally inaudible, even to audiophiles (because only very very few expensive DACs reach more than 16 real bits of resolution in tests [see audiosciencereview]), technically if you have 24-bit files and play them at 16-bit, you're introducing aliasing to the waveform. This can be removed with dithering (players like foobar2000 have these features), but I think it's not worth the hassle.
 

32 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

Yes, in theory not only your headphones are not rated for >24kHz, but also human hearing doesn't go beyond 21kHz; but, if you have files that are saved at 96kHz or 192kHz, when they are forced to be played at 48kHz they get resampled, and resampling (just like before) isn't a perfect algorithm, and will introduce some form of distortion and noise. Again, it's probably not going to be audible or noticeable, but given it's literally a choice-in-the-dropdown away to get rid of, I'd suggest picking the highest sample rate.

[8tg]

32 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

The KHZ measurement isn’t the frequency range, but the samples per second. 
The bit measurement is the amount of information in each sample.

Basically the higher those numbers, the more information is in the audio, the more detailed it is.

 

Set the audio detail to whatever the highest your hardware supports, and then listen to something that takes advantage of that.

For example, 16 bit 44.1khz is the base line for CD quality which is conventionally good, 24 bit 48khz is DVD quality which is much better, but higher resolution flacs can get up to 32 bit 768khz

More conventionally found high resolution audio will be 24 bit 96 or 192khz flacs, make sure your hardware is outputting at a sample rate which can equate to that.

[DamirB]

44 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

Bit is resolution. 24 is better than 16. Yes 48khz is enough for most content. Most games, yt, music streaming movies etc is 48khz. You cant really hear a difference if you select 96khz over 48.

Not that simple, these settings should match the source material.

[DamirB]

1 hour ago, PopsicleHustler said:

Hi all. Sometime ago I made a post asking about high end open back headphones and dacs/amps for them. I ended up getting Audio Technica R70X and Fiio K5 Pro.

 

I've been playing with them for a couple of days and ......fuck. That sound is mindblowing. Coming from 50 euro Razer Krakens to 500 euro audio setup is a dream in itself, but I didn't expect this improvement. Songs, gaming, movies, everything sounds insane. Now I truly understand the full extend of people hating on "gaming" headsets and their BS features. This is superior in every way possible.

 

ANYWAY enough of me screaming like a little girl.

 

So I have some questions about properly setting everything up.

 

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

 

Is there anything else that I could use to improve audio? Like doldy atmos for windows and its equalizer?

 

Any tips are welcome.

Honestly you can play around with EQ but I am not a fan of that, with good stuff the manufacturer knows what they are doing. EQ is to compensate for bad design. What is your source material? Check if you can tell the difference playing HQ stuff. 

 

Other than that, have fun and listen!

[PopsicleHustler]

@DamirB @8tg @LionSpeck @DoctorNick @The Torrent 

 

Thank you all for answers. another thing I forgot to ask - Is it better to max out audio/video/game volume in my PC and use amp for volume control, or turn amp volume knob all the way to 11 and use software for volume control? Or its ok using whichever is more convenient?

[LionSpeck]

12 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

@DamirB @8tg @LionSpeck @DoctorNick @The Torrent 

 

Thank you all for answers. another thing I forgot to ask - Is it better to max out audio/video/game volume in my PC and use amp for volume control, or turn amp volume knob all the way to 11 and use software for volume control? Or its ok using whichever is more convenient?

Short answer: use whatever is more comfortable to you.

Long answer: this is debatable as well. Turning down the volume digitally reduces the total dynamic range of your audio: you only have those 16 / 24 bits; volume at 50% means all your audio data will be scaled (and quantized, with error) in only half of those bits. (This applies to all percentages, obviously.) I'm positive the consensus goes for this being the best option in most cases.
On the other hand, a physical volume control, depending on how the amplifier is designed, could be:

- a potentiometer (variable resistor before amplifying the signal), in which case there could be a slight imbalance between the channels (L / R) and, especially if it's turned way down, it could have a sound to it.

- a direct control to an op-amp or the gain stage of the amp. Depending on the specifics of the amp design, if this is the case, this could be the most technically accurate.

 

From what I see on the audiosciencereview review, your case is the latter, a digital op-amp control.

[DamirB]

28 minutes ago, PopsicleHustler said:

@DamirB @8tg @LionSpeck @DoctorNick @The Torrent 

 

Thank you all for answers. another thing I forgot to ask - Is it better to max out audio/video/game volume in my PC and use amp for volume control, or turn amp volume knob all the way to 11 and use software for volume control? Or its ok using whichever is more convenient?

Best to use amp for volume control, otherwise you're also amplifyin the noise from the DAC in your PC which is more noticable on low volume

[ShearMe]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:29 AM, DamirB said:

with good stuff the manufacturer knows what they are doing. EQ is to compensate for bad design.

That's not a good take... everyone's ears and preferences are different. Any given product has to choose a sound signature to target for their intended use case, but that doesn't mean some tweaks can't be effective at improving the user's experience.

[ShearMe]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:11 AM, PopsicleHustler said:

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

Kinda pointless in the context of audio playback. Useful when mastering files. 

• Bit depth affects SnR. 16-bit already puts the noise floor well below human hearing. You might want higher bit depths during recording to give you more flexibility when mixing/mastering.  https://www.soundguys.com/audio-bit-depth-explained-23706/
• Sample Rate affects the frequency response. Half the sample rate is the maximum frequency you can represent (Nyquist Theorem). Human hearing's maximum is widely considered to be 20kHz, so 44.1kHz sampling is plenty. There are various filters and effects used while mixing/mastering that introduce distortion... for technical reasons higher sample rates are used to put that distortion outside of human hearing. https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-reference/blog/learn/understanding-sample-rate/

You should definitely set your source device to the highest setting it'll run at because it's free to do so. Don't be fooled into paying extra for audio files with a bigger number, however. The final file's bit depth and sample rate do not accurately portray the quality of each recording/track used during mixing. A properly done master will sound great at standard "CD Quality" which is why that standard was created and is still in use.

 

Also be aware that certain services and publishing houses will purposely provide worse sounding files in "CD quality" and better ones in "HiFi" to make consumers think that the numbers are what's important.

[DamirB]

4 hours ago, ShearMe said:

That's not a good take... everyone's ears and preferences are different. Any given product has to choose a sound signature to target for their intended use case, but that doesn't mean some tweaks can't be effective at improving the user's experience.

Often those tweaks are not the biggest improvements, most people I know who start playing around with EQ just end up with a V-shape because it sounds 'insane' which it does and it is fun for a while but people end up forgetting. 

 

EQ should be used to fix an issue and can make stuff really great. Using an EQ for a pair of Klipsh RP-600M is cool and will greatly improve the product. Using it for a KEF LS50 makes no sense at all.

[ShearMe]

1 minute ago, DamirB said:

Often those tweaks are not the biggest improvements, most people I know who start playing around with EQ just end up with a V-shape because it sounds 'insane' which it does and it is fun for a while but people end up forgetting. 

 

EQ should be used to fix an issue and can make stuff really great. Using an EQ for a pair of Klipsh RP-600M is cool and will greatly improve the product. Using it for a KEF LS50 makes no sense at all.

I agree that most people don't know how to use EQ.... I travel nationwide for work and regularly have to reset rental car sound settings. The number of times I've seen every slider maxed is ridiculous. 

 

I'd argue the opposite - NOT using EQ on speakers as expensive as the KEFs makes no sense at all. If you're spending that kind of money, you should be taking measurements and making adjustments for the space they're in. No setup is the same, and room acoustics play a big role in how you perceive any given system.

[DamirB]

1 hour ago, ShearMe said:

I agree that most people don't know how to use EQ.... I travel nationwide for work and regularly have to reset rental car sound settings. The number of times I've seen every slider maxed is ridiculous. 

 

I'd argue the opposite - NOT using EQ on speakers as expensive as the KEFs makes no sense at all. If you're spending that kind of money, you should be taking measurements and making adjustments for the space they're in. No setup is the same, and room acoustics play a big role in how you perceive any given system.

Totally agree with you that it is important how to use EQ before using it, for expensive speakers I'd say that DSP or room correction makes much more sense than EQ right? 

[ShearMe]

3 hours ago, DamirB said:

Totally agree with you that it is important how to use EQ before using it, for expensive speakers I'd say that DSP or room correction makes much more sense than EQ right? 

I'll answer your question with a question: what is the purpose of room correction? What does EQ stand for? 

 

Modern DSPs do have many sophisticated filters and transforms they can apply, but there will always be some EQ at the heart of it. 

[The Torrent]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:37 PM, PopsicleHustler said:

@DamirB @8tg @LionSpeck @DoctorNick @The Torrent 

 

Thank you all for answers. another thing I forgot to ask - Is it better to max out audio/video/game volume in my PC and use amp for volume control, or turn amp volume knob all the way to 11 and use software for volume control? Or its ok using whichever is more convenient?

Your meant to set windows volume on about 98 percent to prevent dac clipping and then just use amp volume.

[GamerDude]

7 hours ago, The Torrent said:

Your meant to set windows volume on about 98 percent to prevent dac clipping and then just use amp volume.

Really? I didn't know that, I'd simply left mine at 95% and use the volume knob on my DAC to control volume, or volume controller on the remote control of my soundbars. Dunno why, but I have an aversion of putting anything at 100%....

[CTR640]

What does dac clipping mean? 

[GoldenSound]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:11 PM, PopsicleHustler said:

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

Select 24 bit 44.1khz

99% of music is 44.1khz and so you'll want it set to that to avoid windows resampling your audio.

[Pickles von Brine]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:11 AM, PopsicleHustler said:

Hi all. Sometime ago I made a post asking about high end open back headphones and dacs/amps for them. I ended up getting Audio Technica R70X and Fiio K5 Pro.

 

I've been playing with them for a couple of days and ......fuck. That sound is mindblowing. Coming from 50 euro Razer Krakens to 500 euro audio setup is a dream in itself, but I didn't expect this improvement. Songs, gaming, movies, everything sounds insane. Now I truly understand the full extend of people hating on "gaming" headsets and their BS features. This is superior in every way possible.

 

ANYWAY enough of me screaming like a little girl.

 

So I have some questions about properly setting everything up.

 

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

 

Is there anything else that I could use to improve audio? Like doldy atmos for windows and its equalizer?

 

Any tips are welcome.

Welcome to the dark side >:D

[LionSpeck]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:41 PM, The Torrent said:

Your meant to set windows volume on about 98 percent to prevent dac clipping and then just use amp volume.

This is false; setting the volume to 98 (or any) % won't avoid clipping, it will only reduce by 2% the resolution of your DAC. That 2% volume reduction (a linear scale, then quantized in digital) happens after your player, therefore if you're clipping, you're clipping before that linear map, scaling that distortion as well. DACs don't clip; their 100% is Windows' 100%.

The only way you can have a "DAC clip" (it doesn't happen in the DAC, but still in Windows), is if you boost your audio somewhere in your digital path, perhaps with EQ or ReplayGain. Again, since Windows' volume will apply afterwards, this will simply scale the clipped audio to 98%, retaining the distortion.

 

On 2/21/2022 at 3:53 AM, CTR640 said:

What does dac clipping mean? 

Clipping is a kind of distortion that happens when your signal hits the limits of amplitude of your carrier:

- in digital, if the value tries to go above 16/24 bits, or below 0; this happens only if there's some audio boosting happening (EQ, ReplayGain or something similar).

- in analog, if the value tries to go above or below the maximum available voltage swing of the audio signal chain. The component that has the lower limit will cause the clipping; generally it's either an OpAmp, or a transistor. This happens if the audio coming from the DAC / preamp overloads the gain stage (very rare) or if you're overloading the power stage by attempting to drive low sensitivity drivers at higher volumes. Typically, high impedance headphones have this kind of issue, as they require high amplitude signals.

Power, in audio devices*, isn't limited by current, but by how much amplitude you can get before too much distortion or clipping.

 

*except when you're dealing with <8Ohms loudspeakers and power amplifiers; some amps (especially tube, OTLs and BJT amps) may not be able to drive lower impedance loudspeakers for current reasons. With headphones there's no such problem.

[geo3]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:11 AM, PopsicleHustler said:

 

In windows audio settings I now have 2 channel 16-bit and 24-bit audio. What is the difference between the two, and which one should I use? Also, I guess there is no point selecting anything over 48Khz? Because headphones are not rated for that.

What you should do is play it the in the exact same format as the source file, otherwise you are resampling. Some player programs have a thing called "Exclusive mode" which will do this automatically. (Amazon music has it but it doesn't actually work).  If you are playing from a compressed source then it really doesn't matter. 

[CTR640]

16 hours ago, LionSpeck said:

This is false; setting the volume to 98 (or any) % won't avoid clipping, it will only reduce by 2% the resolution of your DAC. That 2% volume reduction (a linear scale, then quantized in digital) happens after your player, therefore if you're clipping, you're clipping before that linear map, scaling that distortion as well. DACs don't clip; their 100% is Windows' 100%.

The only way you can have a "DAC clip" (it doesn't happen in the DAC, but still in Windows), is if you boost your audio somewhere in your digital path, perhaps with EQ or ReplayGain. Again, since Windows' volume will apply afterwards, this will simply scale the clipped audio to 98%, retaining the distortion.

 

Clipping is a kind of distortion that happens when your signal hits the limits of amplitude of your carrier:

- in digital, if the value tries to go above 16/24 bits, or below 0; this happens only if there's some audio boosting happening (EQ, ReplayGain or something similar).

- in analog, if the value tries to go above or below the maximum available voltage swing of the audio signal chain. The component that has the lower limit will cause the clipping; generally it's either an OpAmp, or a transistor. This happens if the audio coming from the DAC / preamp overloads the gain stage (very rare) or if you're overloading the power stage by attempting to drive low sensitivity drivers at higher volumes. Typically, high impedance headphones have this kind of issue, as they require high amplitude signals.

Power, in audio devices*, isn't limited by current, but by how much amplitude you can get before too much distortion or clipping.

 

*except when you're dealing with <8Ohms loudspeakers and power amplifiers; some amps (especially the tube, OTLs and BJT amps) may not be able to drive lower impedance loudspeakers for current reasons. With there's no such problem.

Yeah, I was wondering because I've set the Windows volume at 100 and only use the volume knob of my dac/amp since slightly more than 2 years. My only 2 high-impedance headphones are the DT880 600ohm and Amiron Home 250ohm. Both are without a problem.