Kosovo bans crypto mining after facing severe energy supply issues

[Roswell]

4 hours ago, EL02 said:

Nano:

1. Instant transactions
2. Feeless
3. Very low power consumption

Some coins really do have value and practical use.

Yeah how about you don't conveniently edit out the second part of the sentence you quoted and read it again.

 

They have no value or practical use without the backing of traditional currency.

[tikker]

18 hours ago, Roswell said:

The fact that crypto is still remotely relevant blows my mind. Fake digital coins that have zero value or practical use without the backing of traditional currency... which it wants to replace (lol).

 

An excellent example of collective stupidity.

Crypto won't replace fiat anytime soon and people shouting that are simply naive imo. I think it will coexist for a while, but I don't see it become the dominant form of electronic payment so far. However, the fact that people still refuse to acknowledge even a little value also "blows my mind". It's obviously tied to our current fiat currencies, because those are the only legal tenders we have. Even from a pure monetary point of view value is literally defined by what people value it at either because it has a use (e.g. metals), an interesting story (antiques or art) or simply is marketed as such (e.g. diamonds). You can disagree with it, but if things are going at some price then it is on average worth that price. It being digital doesn't automatically make it "fake" or "worthless". We don't call a digital art piece a fake painting with zero value either and the internet was called "nothing but another [news] outlet" as well.

 

Now we're all in it for the profits and keeping it as an asset, which besides it's user-unfriendliness, is also a major reason why it cannot replace fiat. I'm not sure if it will stay in its current form, although it seems to be sticking, but I think there is certainly merit to the blockchain technology behind it though. Banks are also investigating ledger/blockchain technology for digitial version of our fiat currencies as well. That doesn't warrant anything will come from it, but does show that the technology behind it isn't disregarded.

 

Not all cryptos even try to be everyday money. From some that I took an interest in: Stellar aims to provide easy trading of an arbitrary currency, VeChain is business oriented and aims to e.g. track good through the supply chain, TheGraph indexes information on various different chains (somtimes called "the Google of blockchains" and others aim to aid cross-chain transfers. All of their respective coins (and even ETH for that matter) are just fuel for that network. It has really become a small ecosystem of its own.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, tikker said:

Crypto won't replace fiat anytime soon and people shouting that are simply naive imo. I think it will coexist for a while, but I don't see it become the dominant form of electronic payment so far. However, the fact that people still refuse to acknowledge even a little value also "blows my mind". It's obviously tied to our current fiat currencies, because those are the only legal tenders we have.

 

Cryptocurrencies in it's current form isn't money. At best they're speculative investment instruments, and at worst they are death traps for those operating mining farms. Look at how many rug-pulls have happened over 2021. This will just keep happening and people won't trust crypto.

 

In fact, I'd say far more damage has been done LAST year to the possibility of any existing crypto currency being adopted. NFT's? Nothing but piracy and money laundering. Bitcoin? Money Laundering. ICO's ? Rugpulls. Exchanges being looted by their owners? Rugpulls. Theft of NFT's and Cryptocoins?

 

All that's been proven is that regulations must exist, and the weak point is where it's transferred between fiat and crypto, which doesn't put crypto in any better position than fiat.

 

Basically, all crypto has enabled are "currently overregulated" industries such as porn, piracy and cannabis to operate unimpeded and all the crypto blockchain shows are crypto transactions. Make enough transactions in large enough amounts, and I'm sure the taxman will want to see it.

 

[tikker]

6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Cryptocurrencies in it's current form isn't money. At best they're speculative investment instruments, and at worst they are death traps for those operating mining farms. Look at how many rug-pulls have happened over 2021. This will just keep happening and people won't trust crypto.

In fact, I'd say far more damage has been done LAST year to the possibility of any existing crypto currency being adopted. NFT's? Nothing but piracy and money laundering. Bitcoin? Money Laundering. ICO's ? Rugpulls. Exchanges being looted by their owners? Rugpulls. Theft of NFT's and Cryptocoins?

They aren't legal tender, but are money otherwise. I agree that currently they are speculative investments, which will make it very hard for things like BTC to become an actual currency. In that regard I refer back to the point that being something you buy your coffee with is not the intention of many cryptos. The rug-pulls are unfortunate and do harm the reputation. They're also unavoidable in emerging markets, especially something foreign and unregulated as cryptos.

 

I also agree that NFTs are, despite their potential usefullnes, way too easily used for scams. To the Bitcoin == money laundering I can only answer art auctions == money laundering. Just because it happens doesn't make it the primary means. Illicit transactions have been a minor fraction of the entirety for years now. The currently estimated illicit activity in 2021 is 0.15% of all transaction volume (0.62% in 202). In comparison 2-5% of global GDP is used for money laundering yearly. Its crime aspect is certainly something to keep a close watch on, but from the information we have the "crypto is only for crime" is mostly a false narrative and for sure partially driven due to it being new.

22 minutes ago, Kisai said:

All that's been proven is that regulations must exist, and the weak point is where it's transferred between fiat and crypto, which doesn't put crypto in any better position than fiat.

 

Basically, all crypto has enabled are "currently overregulated" industries such as porn, piracy and cannabis to operate unimpeded and all the crypto blockchain shows are crypto transactions. Make enough transactions in large enough amounts, and I'm sure the taxman will want to see it.

And I support the regulations. The lack of regulations make it an unstable thing where "rocket goes brrr" can make it jump or fall over night, which makes it unsuitable as a legal tender. If it ever wans or wanted to become a legal tender fiat replacement then it needs to decide it won't be an asset anymore, which I don't see happening. All this freedom, tax evasion and anonimity stuff are just pipe dreams. If people want to play the tax evasion game that's on them, but as you say once you start spending or receiving above your supposed means Uncle Sam would love a clarification where all your comes from at some point. Sooner or later the government will find out you own crypto assets, at which point it would benefit you if you can explain where they came from. All my purchase and mining activity is logged and assets declared for that reason. It's clear where it came from and properly taxed, so I'm good.

[mr moose]

On 1/8/2022 at 2:55 AM, StDragon said:

Once Elon gets production going with the the Gigafactory in Austin, he'll be able to also create battery banks to store energy on the grid. It will be extremely profitable for him as he can charge when the price is low, then dump back on the grid when price raises. For one, it would help with grid instabilities in curbing brownouts. Secondly it would slam down price spikes that people freak-out over when using Griddy Energy as their provider (don't use them, it's stupid, and people lose their ass in just a few events out of the year).

BTW, Texas as a state produces the most energy from wind out of all others in the Union. Over 33 gigawatts of capacity and growing; specifically offshore. We need more wind and Elon's battery banks. Crypto can be kicked to the curb or thrown on the lowest priority as a useful parasitic load for ERCOT to shed; multiple times a day if needed. 

 

Batteries like Elon's will provide localized stability in grids sure, just like they can permit a car to be powered by electricity,  but that's all it will do, there isn't currently enough viable lithium in the world to cover the US car market let alone anything else.   That is probably the chief reason car makers aren't swapping faster to electric vehicles,  no point in investing in a product you likely can't build.

 

 

3 hours ago, tikker said:

Illicit transactions have been a minor fraction of the entirety for years now. The currently estimated illicit activity in 2021 is 0.15% of all transaction volume (0.62% in 202). In comparison 2-5% of global GDP is used for money laundering yearly. Its crime aspect is certainly something to keep a close watch on, but from the information we have the "crypto is only for crime" is mostly a false narrative and for sure partially driven due to it being new.

 

 

I don't know anyone who has said crypto is only for crime (clearly it is not),  but even with the small percentage of it used for crime (that we know of) it certainly has done major damage.  I think the problem is people haven't gotten their heads around the difference between crypto being the root tool used to enable large scale crime and crypto being responsible for it.  I don't think it's fair to say crypto caused an increase in crime, but being able to use it as a ransom tool certainly did.    

 

For me personally, until someone can explain to me an advantage crypto has over conventional currency then I don't see why we should support something that has bought more disadvantage than benefits.

[adarw]

44 minutes ago, mr moose said:

For me personally, until someone can explain to me an advantage crypto has over conventional currency then I don't see why we should support something that has bought more disadvantage than benefits.

banks can just keep making money if they want to, infact thats what they did during covid, free money i guess. crypto doesnt have inflation, doesnt have a single point of failure, where if one thing goes down everything goes down with it,  and its anonymous, why do you want banks to know everything you do? i would rather have it like cash where i can buy anything i want without anything put into my name.

 

Quote

to say "ive got nothing to hide" is as if you dont care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

-snowden

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, adarw said:

anks can just keep making money if they want to, infact thats what they did during covid,

False. Government print money. Central banks (Which are government controlled) decide how much money to inject in to an economy. They inject money in a few ways. 1) They can buy bonds, 2) They lower the interest rates and banks barrow money and then loan that out to every day people like us for a bit higher interest rate, 3) They get the printing press going. 

 

Here in the US they have been doing all 3. Interest rates are the lowest they have been in fucking forever, so much so it's more economical to take out a loan. The US Federal Reserve has been buying lots of bonds, some of them being junk bonds. Those stimulus checks were the government printing money. 

[Kisai]

22 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

False. Government print money. Central banks (Which are government controlled) decide how much money to inject in to an economy. They inject money in a few ways. 1) They can buy bonds, 2) They lower the interest rates and banks barrow money and then loan that out to every day people like us for a bit higher interest rate, 3) They get the printing press going. 

 

Here in the US they have been doing all 3. Interest rates are the lowest they have been in fucking forever, so much so it's more economical to take out a loan. The US Federal Reserve has been buying lots of bonds, some of them being junk bonds. Those stimulus checks were the government printing money. 

That's somewhat incorrect.

 

American banks (and likely foreign banks) "can print money", because they are allowed to lend out money on a multiple of how much money they have as deposits. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/070815/how-must-banks-use-deposit-multiplier-when-calculating-their-reserves.asp

 

That money never exists as physical bills or bullion. It does mean the bank can lend out 5 dollars for every 1 dollar's it has a deposit, and guess what, what enables a bank to loan money at all, is loaning out the money you deposit. That is why the interest on your savings account is 0.1%. There is nothing requiring them to give you any specific amount of interest. Central bank interest rates cover the amount they are permitted to charge borrowers on mortgages. Hell, even putting your money into SPY ETF (1.3%) is likely to earn you more money than a savings account (0.01% to 0.05%). Assuming you aren't day trading it.

 

[Donut417]

12 minutes ago, Kisai said:

is loaning out the money you deposit.

Incorrect. Banks also barrow money from the Federal Reserve, the interest rate the Federal Reserve sets are the rate banks pay, not the rates regular people pay. Banks also are required under LAW to have money with the Federal Reserve by purchasing treasury bonds. 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, adarw said:

banks can just keep making money if they want to, infact thats what they did during covid, free money i guess. crypto doesnt have inflation, doesnt have a single point of failure, where if one thing goes down everything goes down with it,  and its anonymous, why do you want banks to know everything you do? i would rather have it like cash where i can buy anything i want without anything put into my name.

 

-snowden

Crypto is not immune to any of that.   Inflation is caused by changes in an economy not by the currency it uses.  Crypto,  if used as widespread as conventional currency is,  will be subject to all the same pitfalls.     Anonymous does not mean good,   In fact anonymous is the very reason it has caused such an uptick in ransomware.  A thing that costs companies and organizations like public health more money, which they then pass on to us.

 

When it comes to money, I love the idea no one can hide where they get it from or where it goes to.   Imagine if politicians could hide which companies or organizations are funding the laws?  No thanks.

 

 

 

 

[jagdtigger]

9 hours ago, adarw said:

crypto doesnt have inflation

You do know that inflation comes from mainly the desire to get more? Prices go up as ppl want more and more wage for their work, even if the highly impossible thing happens and crypto becomes the legal tender it will suffer the same fate.
(If you want more specifics dig into economics.)