Anime Club - Heaven Society

[Charger]

So I'm reading a post about "how CNC machines have reached the point where they are cheap enough to buy, rather than build, for personal hobbying" (paraphrased)

In the comments, people calling $2,000 inexpensive.

... I look at these machines and they are $1,000+. I feel I am looking at this the wrong way, but I don't think that's inexpensive? I know they are comparing it to how much these machines would cost in the past (much more than $1,000), but ... I don't know.

For a hobbyist, I think $1,000+ is still way to expensive for anyone to reasonably bother with. I'm just looking at these machines and going "how has this not been made and sold for less than $500 at this point?" The markup must be significant.

I get it. It's a piece of metal & other parts that was complicated to make, that has to work with a computer very precisely. Something that of course would cost a notable amount of money.

But still. Usually, the way it works is the field advances at the highest level. Then there's a chain reaction as every level below that gets cheaper because it's easier to make and mass produce. I just don't really get how the simplest and smallest CNC machines haven't hit the "affordable to buy and possibly break in a year and not feel too bad about it" level of affordable.

Idk. I'm probably thinking of it the wrong way. But that way would be in terms of hobbyist people who'd like to try it and "it be ok" that they don't like it as a hobby and the machine is a paper weight within a year. People like me. Basically.

when a drill cost $100 do you really expect a cnc machine to cost $500? Between my dad, brother and myself we probably have $7,000-10,000 in tools I don't view $1,000 to be to extreme for hobby use.

[Vitalius]

when a drill cost $100 do you really expect a cnc machine to cost $500? Between my dad, brother and myself we probably have $7,000-10,000 in tools I don't view $1,000 to be to extreme for hobby use.

Yes. Yes I do. 

That's very cool. But $1,000 is entry level (from what I'm seeing). Tier 1 most-basic-of-CNCs level. I don't understand that. It's essentially just a drill that moves with some fancy software. I'd understand bits costing a bit (ha, mah puns). That's usually where they get you and they need to be of high quality to last at all (I imagine). 

shrugs I guess I'm not about understanding this hobby and why it costs so much (relative to other hobbies that can be as complicated to make happen or are similar).

 

Maybe I haven't used tools enough to appreciate the difference between a CNC machine and a drill. I just expect that as time goes on, the entry level for a specialized tool to get cheaper. And I guess $1,000 is a lot for most people as an entry to a hobby like this that I feel is too high for how long it's been around.

[Charger]

Yes. Yes I do. 

That's very cool. But $1,000 is entry level (from what I'm seeing). Tier 1 most-basic-of-CNCs level. I don't understand that. It's essentially just a drill that moves with some fancy software. I'd understand bits costing a bit (ha, mah puns). That's usually where they get you and they need to be of high quality to last at all (I imagine). 

shrugs I guess I'm not about understanding this hobby and why it costs so much (relative to other hobbies that can be as complicated to make happen or are similar).

 

Maybe I haven't used tools enough to appreciate the difference between a CNC machine and a drill. I just expect that as time goes on, the entry level for a specialized tool to get cheaper. And I guess $1,000 is a lot for most people as an entry to a hobby like this that I feel is too high for how long it's been around.

lets put it this way the software my brother has bought for the cnc machine we are making so far has cost $337, the steppers and controllers was $100, then probably about $200-400 in other parts he bought, then a $2000 plasma cutter, A $100 router I just bought for it. So we are probably getting close to $3000 for our little cnc setup overall

[Vitalius]

lets put it this way the software my brother has bought for the cnc machine we are making so far has cost $337, the steppers and controllers was $100, then probably about $200-400 in other parts he bought, then a $2000 plasma cutter, A $100 router I just bought for it. So we are probably getting close to $3000 for our little cnc setup overall

Ok, so cool.  So to be clear, I'm explicitly talking about a CNC mill. No lathe. No router. 

This thing: 

What are steppers? The things that move the drill around, but what is it, specifically? A motor with a chain on it? Hydraulics? What?

>plasma cutter

That's cool and all, but I'm just looking for a drill that moves on it's own according to pre-written instructions. Just so you see where I'm coming from on this,

A handheld drill is:

• a DC electric motor
• a plastic or metal casing
• a battery
• a bit
• something to hold the bit (part of casing I'd say)

It's $100-$200 for an ok-good one (I believe).

 

A tier 1 starter CNC is (correct me if I miss something or am wrong):

• a drill with a motor to run it (probably AC since plugged in and stationary), probably with a microprocessor built in to take instructions on when to be on and at what speed
• something to move said drill up and down/side to side, so say two motors until I understand what a stepper is, again microprocessors or something to take instructions
• the metal base
• specialized software

I don't see what in that causes an increase of $800-$900. I'd expect cost to manufacture to be like, what, $250-$300? 100% markup to $500-$600 for an ok one. 

Can't say motors are expensive (otherwise drills would be). Can't say microprocessors are expensive (look at raspberry pi's, i mean really). The base can be CNC'd with a nicer CNC machine and put together by hand, I'd imagine. That leaves the software. Where is the free software for this stuff? imeanreally

I'm probably going too far with this. I guess I just wish I could say I can afford it and buy one and use it. shrugs

[-CLASSIFIED-]

Metrosexual rating is off the chart.

there is no chart left , it burned down from the flaming .... Ok jk I won't go there this year , maybe next year ;p

[Charger]

Ok, so cool. So to be clear, I'm explicitly talking about a CNC mill. No lathe. No router.

This thing:

What are steppers? The things that move the drill around, but what is it, specifically? A motor with a chain on it? Hydraulics? What?

>plasma cutter

That's cool and all, but I'm just looking for a drill that moves on it's own according to pre-written instructions. Just so you see where I'm coming from on this,

A handheld drill is:

• a DC electric motor
• a plastic or metal casing
• a battery
• a bit
• something to hold the bit (part of casing I'd say)

It's $100-$200 for an ok-good one (I believe).

A tier 1 starter CNC is (correct me if I miss something or am wrong):

• a drill with a motor to run it (probably AC since plugged in and stationary), probably with a microprocessor built in to take instructions on when to be on and at what speed
• something to move said drill up and down/side to side, so say two motors until I understand what a stepper is, again microprocessors or something to take instructions
• the metal base
• specialized software

I don't see what in that causes an increase of $800-$900. I'd expect cost to manufacture to be like, what, $250-$300? 100% markup to $500-$600 for an ok one.

Can't say motors are expensive (otherwise drills would be). Can't say microprocessors are expensive (look at raspberry pi's, i mean really). The base can be CNC'd with a nicer CNC machine and put together by hand, I'd imagine. That leaves the software. Where is the free software for this stuff? imeanreally

I'm probably going too far with this. I guess I just wish I could say I can afford it and buy one and use it. shrugscheap can be done but almost useless in result. Get drill out for your mind. Really it's far more like a router similar price but designed for side load. Steppers are motors that can be acuratly controlled. You can make a controller out of an arduino relatively cheap. You need a dcent rail system to make a relatively smooth running system. You will need to make custom parts to put things together. I have made a cnc laser thing out of DVD burners and like $40 for arduino stuff before.

[Jacona]

Nu-Jazz is my new favorite thing. 

 

[Vitalius]

cheap can be done but almost useless in result. Get drill out for your mind. Really it's far more like a router similar price but designed for side load. Steppers are motors that can be acuratly controlled. You can make a controller out of an arduino relatively cheap. You need a dcent rail system to make a relatively smooth running system. You will need to make custom parts to put things together. I have made a cnc laser thing out of DVD burners and like $40 for arduino stuff before.

Cool. It's hard to not compare when they are made of the same things and are obviously related in clear ways. 

So steppers are motors with microprocessors, cool. 

Well there you go. That's what was confusing me. How the article said, at this point, it's worth it to buy instead of make. I disagree until they become a reasonable price for what they are. 

Do you have a guide? I bet the forums would love a guide. .... _{plz write a guide}

This is a cool looking device...

What would you use that for Charger? Burning stuff into, say, acrylic or metal (thus the "engraver" part)? Or actually going so far as to cut them?

 

@Jacona

Thank you. This is nice. I enjoy this music. Have a like.

[Charger]

Cool. It's hard to not compare when they are made of the same things and are obviously related in clear ways. 

So steppers are motors with microprocessors, cool. 

Well there you go. That's what was confusing me. How the article said, at this point, it's worth it to buy instead of make. I disagree until they become a reasonable price for what they are. 

Do you have a guide? I bet the forums would love a guide. .... _{plz write a guide}

no guide at the moment but just an fyi that mill you pictured is a little sherline and you can get it with its cnc kit for $2525.00 and it is only slightly better then useless in my book lol

[Vitalius]

no guide at the moment but just an fyi that mill you pictured is a little sherline and you can get it with its cnc kit for $2525.00 and it is only slightly better then useless in my book lol

I know. I got it directly from their website, where the price is $930 (includes software and machine). 30lbs+ means lots o' shipping costs and tax. I don't see how you'd make it go up by 2.5 times tho.

 

What is a CNC kit? The bits, and such? I mean what would come with a "kit"?

 

You call it useless because...?

 

And that's what I mean. That's tier 1. Why... why does it cost $930 when it's effectively useless then?

 

Relevant video of USB CNC engraver thingie:

Dat animu in his folder tho. Cool thing imo. Not sure if worth tho.

[Charger]

I know. I got it directly from their website, where the price is like $950 (includes software and machine). 30lbs+ means lots o' shipping costs and tax. I don't see how you'd make it go up by 2.5 times tho.

 

What is a CNC kit? The bits, and such? I mean what would come with a "kit"?

 

You call it useless because...?

its even smaller then I though then. the picture is just a mill with out any of the cnc stuff on it is why I said with the cnc kit. As for why it is useless is because it is. It can basically cut nothing and what it can but takes far longer then it really should.

I have owned 2 vertical mills. The first one was larger that and still almost useless the second even larger and still not that good realistically but far better then what I had. I also have 2 lathes

my little laser toy

my current mill

my smaller lathe

[Vitalius]

its even smaller then I though then. the picture is just a mill with out any of the cnc stuff on it is why I said with the cnc kit. As for why it is useless is because it is. It can basically cut nothing and what it can but takes far longer then it really should.

I have owned 2 vertical mills. The first one was larger that and still almost useless the second even larger and still not that good realistically but far better then what I had. I also have 2 lathes

 

-snip de cool pics-

>far longer than it really should

Not a big deal in terms of "hobby" stuff imo.

>not able to cut a lot

That's a bigger issue I think.

And that's, I guess, again, my point. For something that's going to sit on my desk and be used only from time to time and can basically do very little even in the field it's supposed to be used for, $1,000 is way too much. 

$600 for that thing, and $1,000 for a "useful" version of the same size? Then I'd kinda be like "Well, ok, that's more reasonable." But naw. I'm not buying a CNC then. I'll just make my own slowly over time if I ever care to bother with it.

Edit: When I say "useful", I mean one that cuts more stuff and does it faster, potentially. /edit

Cool things. How long did it take you to make that laser thing?

[Jacona]

Wanted to get my FAFSA done right after midnight.

Servers are taking a shit, welp tomorrow is still plenty early. 

[Vitalius]

@Charger

... buy or naw:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-Mini-CNC-3020-Router-Engraver-500W-CNC3020-Drilling-Milling-Machine-110V-/151658676794

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Mini-CNC-Router-Drilling-Milling-Engraving-Machine-20X15cm-110V-220V-/300914984320

I'm just curious. I'm not buying either way, but if I had the disposable income, would you recommend going for it? Considering I have no interest in new, or building my own in a reasonable time frame (say, within a year).

If not, why?

>just trying to learn

 

and when I say useless I mean it basically cant do shit lol. If you are looking for a slightly better starting point I would suggest a sieg x2 mill which is what I started on.

 

As for the laser thing probably a few hours but far more time fucking with software to get it to work. I did it for a school project.

This one?

Ok, see, that's a lot more reasonable for what it is.

I may be misunderstanding. ... That's an automated CNC mill, afaict.

[Charger]

Edit: When I say "useful", I mean one that cuts more stuff and does it faster, potentially. /edit

Cool things. How long did it take you to make that laser thing?

and when I say useless I mean it basically cant do shit lol. If you are looking for a slightly better starting point I would suggest a sieg x2 mill which is what I started on.

As for the laser thing probably a few hours but far more time fucking with software to get it to work. I did it for a school project.

[Tr3vor]

So I'm reading a post about "how CNC machines have reached the point where they are cheap enough to buy, rather than build, for personal hobbying" (paraphrased)

 

In the comments, people calling $2,000 inexpensive.

... I look at these machines and they are $1,000+. I feel I am looking at this the wrong way, but I don't think that's inexpensive? I know they are comparing it to how much these machines would cost in the past (much more than $1,000), but ... I don't know. 

For a hobbyist, I think $1,000+ is still way to expensive for anyone to reasonably bother with. I'm just looking at these machines and going "how has this not been made and sold for less than $500 at this point, even at 'ok' quality levels?" The markup must be significant. 

I get it. It's a piece of metal & other parts that was complicated to make, that has to work with a computer very precisely. Something that of course would cost a notable amount of money. 

But still. Usually, the way it works is the field advances at the highest level. Then there's a chain reaction as every level below that gets cheaper because it's easier to make and mass produce. I just don't really get how the simplest and smallest CNC machines haven't hit the "affordable to buy and possibly break in a year and not feel too bad about it" level of affordable. 

Idk. I'm probably thinking of it the wrong way. But that way would be in terms of hobbyist people who'd like to try it and "it be ok" that they don't like it as a hobby and the machine is a paper weight within a year. People like me. Basically.

 

Edit:

I guess when I look at a machine like this, I can't help but wonder what the people in the article are on about. I feel like this could totally be made for less than $1,000 in a reasonable amount of time (in terms of $$$/hour of work).

 

If I could get a good Haas CNC mill for $2000, I would think about it.

 

 

 

I would be silly and make myself a waterblock for an old computer or something.

[Charger]

@Charger

... buy or naw:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-Mini-CNC-3020-Router-Engraver-500W-CNC3020-Drilling-Milling-Machine-110V-/151658676794

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-Mini-CNC-Router-Drilling-Milling-Engraving-Machine-20X15cm-110V-220V-/300914984320

I'm just curious. I'm not buying either way, but if I had the disposable income, would you recommend going for it? Considering I have no interest in new, or building my own in a reasonable time frame (say, within a year).

If not, why?

>just trying to learn

This one?

not sure about those in particular but some of those type of cnc routers are not that bad. I would get something like that before a 3d printer.

@Vitalius

As for the mill yes. I bought one used for $400 my little brother sold it when I was out of town for $250 so you can aparently buy them really cheap off my dumb ass brother lol

[Tr3vor]

Lol, for shits and giggles I looked up a haas mill that's similar to the ones I used in school. $50,000

 

The CNC mills that I'm thinking of that can plow a face mill through an inch deep of material at fucking light speed

 

 

HAHAHAHA wtf

[-CLASSIFIED-]

OMG GUYSSSSSSS

 

ITS ALIVE AGAIN AFTER BEING ON FIRE 

usied to never show up , ive worked magic on it :3

[Vitalius]

OMG GUYSSSSSSS

 

ITS ALIVE AGAIN AFTER BEING ON FIRE

communication ports are resilient /kek

no but really, test it in a game.

[Charger]

Lol, for shits and giggles I looked up a haas mill that's similar to the ones I used in school. $50,000

The CNC mills that I'm thinking of that can plow a face mill through an inch deep of material at fucking light speed

HAHAHAHA wtf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2MaBBKdU80

and the manual mill I own has a max spindle rpm of 1000 has no recorded record of being made and was made probably in the 1940s

[-CLASSIFIED-]

communication ports are resilient /kek

no but really, test it in a game.

IT FUCKING WORKS HOOORAYYYYYY 

 

 

this is now my folding card 

 

yep it works 

[Vitalius]

and the manual mill I own has a max spindle rpm of 1000 has no recorded record of being made and was made probably in the 1940s

but is it a good one tho?

 

yep it works

I would keep an eye on it for an hour or so. Just in case it lights on fire again. Ya never know.

#2016; Texas is officially an Open Carry state (regarding guns).

[Fred Castellum]

Dam I'm hearing explosions everywhere because of New Year celebrations...

 

Happy New Year guys! But seriously I can't sleep like this.

 

Well guys im of to work until after new years -.-" so I'll go ahead a say happy new years to all and i hope my senpai's will take care of me next year lol 

 

Also If @MyInnerFred and the rest of you guys dont mind i'd like to finally join the anime club since its gonna be a new year and all.

Anyway piece out until i get off work later on. May sneak on around 12 at work lol

I'll add you to the roster first thing tomorrow.

[Vitalius]

I'll add you to the roster first thing tomorrow.

it's official bb

I'm considering buying silly-but-useful thangs.

Le Plumb Bob

 

Used to find vertical (i.e. equivalent of a horizontal level, but for vertical). Useful for transferring lines from ceiling to floor or vice versa.