This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

[finest feck fips]

1 minute ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

hold judgement? i'd forgive my grandma who knows nothing about computers for making that mistake, but Linus? it's not like GitHub is Linux only, i refuse to believe that he's never downloaded software from there before. 

He probably pulled things down exclusively from release pages, never trying to get some specific file from inside the repo, or pulling down a copy of the whole repo (either by cloning it or grabbing a tarball)

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, Linux-Is-Best said:

The advantage of SUSE Linux is they're the 3rd oldest continued distribution (behind only Slackware and Debian). They were the 1st commercial distribution (over a decade before Red Hat). Even today, they still offer a paid distro, SUSE Enterprise Linux.  They have been around for 30 years, and their development is solid. OpenSUSE is their upstream for their Enterprise builds.

 

how is that an advantage lol, it's old so you should use it? 

 

i'd argue manjaro is better. it has the AUR, which Suse does not have, on top of that it also has steam pre-installed and all iso's have the nvidia drivers too. 

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, finest feck fips said:

He probably pulled things down exclusively from release pages, never trying to get some specific file from inside the repo, or pulling down a copy of the whole repo (either by cloning it or grabbing a tarball)

even if that's true he should know how github works. not to mention he also MUST know what that right click feature does in every web browser... 

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, CCWong said:

Ain't nobody got time to figure out why Heroes of the Storm is running at 12 FPS on Pop OS and 90 FPS on Windows. 

sorry to be a bit of a bitch about this but did you wait for a bit? DXVK, which si what Linux uses to run Windows software needs to build a cache first of the shaders, which takes 5 to 10 minutes. during that time the game plays like shit, after it's done though everything should be good. this is also mentioned on the lutris page for the game:

[Ultraforce]

Just now, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

even if that's true he should know how github works. not to mention he also MUST know what that right click feature does in every web browser... 

I will say even though the readme I'd say is decent for most users but not necessarily good for someone with 0 familiarity with Linux I don't know why he didn't do what I did before understanding how to git clone which was just copy and paste. I don't know if he finds copying code intimidating but especially since he didn't know what .sh was and relied on this stackoverflow to find out. I would think just copying and putting it in whatever text editor or LibreOfice Writer that comes with manjaro makes sense to do.

 

 

 

[finest feck fips]

1 minute ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

he also MUST know what that right click feature does in every web browser... 

Linus probably has, but in theory, someone in the world has never opened a specific file on GitHub's web interface. They might think that the link would be directly to the raw file, and not to a page displaying its contents.

I'm very sympathetic to the issues Luke has faced Like that weird OBS quirk where he never found a cause, but restarting OBS fixed it... I hate that kind of bug. And he'd likely have to dig really deep (for a newbie) into Linux audio subsystems in order to figure out what the hell was going on there.

But I lose all interest in addressing UX warts when the instruction required reaches the level of teaching people how to correctly click around on a fucking website. You gotta be blood related to me and over 60 years old before I start feeling bad for you about something like that.

I pray that there's some corporate entity in the world interested in shepherding such phenomenally helpless users as cannot browse GitHub through using Linux. But it could not be me, not for $300,000/yr lmao

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, Ultraforce said:

I will say even though the readme

ON THAT PAGE: 

 

RELEASES SECTION WITH A .ZIP LINK

[Guest Linux-Is-Best]

10 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

how is that an advantage lol, it's old so you should use it? 

 

i'd argue manjaro is better. it has the AUR, which Suse does not have, on top of that it also has steam pre-installed and all iso's have the nvidia drivers too. 

 

^ I go into some basic details in the other thread on why both Linux Mint and Manjaro are poor choices. Mostly their lack of stability and, in previous years, security concerns too.

 

If you want to try Arch Linux with Windows users in mind, along with a friendly community backing it and full use of AUR, I would suggest Endeavour OS ( https://endeavouros.com ).

 

Yes, SUSE's development has been ongoing for decades (30 years). They're invested, and like any business, they are in the business to make money. That means they have a good incentive to develop and mature their distribution thoroughly. There is something to be said about a development not running exclusively using volunteer work.

[finest feck fips]

2 minutes ago, Ultraforce said:

I don't know why he didn't do what I did before understanding how to git clone which was just copy and paste.

 

they added the copy/paste-able instructions after the LTT video went up, lol

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, finest feck fips said:

Linus probably has, but in theory, someone in the world has never opened a specific file on GitHub's web interface. They might think that the link would be directly to the raw file, and not to a page displaying its contents.

 

on that page, a releases ection with a .zip link.

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, Linux-Is-Best said:

why both Linux Mint and Manjaro are poor choices. Mostly their lack of stability and, in previous years, security concerns too.

i've yet to see any evicende from manjaro haters. i've ran it for years and it's always been fine, even the unstable branch. 

[finest feck fips]

2 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

Spoiler

 

on that page, a releases ection with a .zip link.

> First release
> yesterday

looks like that release was part of their Linus-proofing effort lol

[Ashleyyyy]

2 minutes ago, finest feck fips said:

> First release
> yesterday

looks like that release was part of their Linus-proofing effort lol

missed that, it's almost midnight where i live gimme a break lol

[Ultraforce]

2 minutes ago, finest feck fips said:

 

they added the copy/paste-able instructions after the LTT video went up, lol

No, I mean that what I was used to doing with github was click on instal.sh and just hold the mouse over the stuff starting at 1 and going until the end of the file and then press control c. Or if most of it stayed the same for one java project just copying the stuff that changed and pasting it on my own version of it since it wasn't synced to git at all. It's a terrible way of doing it but it's simple.

[finest feck fips]

1 minute ago, CCWong said:

You know, making something Linus-proof is probably a decent reliability metric to adopt.

if you have a $50mil budget

[Kilrah]

26 minutes ago, finest feck fips said:

GitHub is not a Dropbox clone. Linus had no reason to expect it to behave like one

Remeber the whole point of the series is to experiment it as if being in the shoes of a non-tech user. No standard user going to github for the first time has a reason to expect it not to behave like dropbox. 

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

Remeber the whole point of the series is to experiment it as if being in the shoes of a non-tech user. No standard user going to github for the first time has a reason to expect it not to behave like dropbox. 

a standard user has no idea what linux is. that's what i don't understand about the series. if you want to try linux, which has a reputation for being a power-user OS, you either are already a power user and want to find out if it suits your needs better, or you want to learn more about how computers work, which linux is great for. no person who only uses their computer for steam and youtube will ever try it. 

 

like, i have some friends who are using linux because of me, i pushed them to it because windows was causing them issues, the difference is they have me, someone with a decade of linux experience, one phone call away at all times if something goes wrong. that's why i pushed them to it and they are all very happy with it. 

[finest feck fips]

1 minute ago, Ultraforce said:

It's a terrible way of doing it but it's simple.

if the file has a weird encoding or it's a binary file, that may not work or could corrupt the file. What you wanna go for is the Raw button on that file's little preview page on GitHub. If you right-click that and save it, you'll get the plain file. If you just click on it, your browser will open the raw file and you can save it with ctrl+s or command+s or whatever

For some file types (like some binary files), GitHub won't display that ‘raw’ button, but you can still get it that way if you manually enter the correct raw.githubusercontent.com url

 

but yeah sometimes you don't wanna download the whole repo

you can also use fresh to grab individual files out of repos in a concise way, if you want.

[finest feck fips]

21 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Remeber the whole point of the series is to experiment it as if being in the shoes of a non-tech user. No standard user going to github for the first time has a reason to expect it not to behave like dropbox. 

There's a ton of software that's only or mainly released on GitHub, and it's a way more reputable place to download software than any of the zillions of generic software download sites that people use to get freeware on Windows. How many Windows users who are considering switching to Linux are there, really, who have never, ever visited GitHub?

[Guest Linux-Is-Best]

5 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Remeber the whole point of the series is to experiment it as if being in the shoes of a non-tech user. No standard user going to github for the first time has a reason to expect it not to behave like dropbox. 

Really? That's the excuse we're going with?  lol 

 

Most non-tech users know how to download from a site. Github is no exception. Before I was a tech user, when I was still a so-called non-tech user, I knew how to download from the likes of Github. It's not hard. Noob window users (I mean someone new to using their 1st computer) love smashing green buttons. It's why Github picked the color. It's a no-brainer... And let's not forget Linus has a video of himself using Github.

 

If the point you're trying to make was this was all an act, it's bad acting. I do believe we're being trolled.

[gudvinr]

45 minutes ago, CCWong said:

Edit: Not that he should be ashamed or anything, he is just ignorant of how that functionality works in browsers, which is obv ok because we're all ignorant of tons and tons of tech shit.

Not "in browser" but on github specifically. There are sites that allow you to download files when you use "save link as". It's not entirely unreasonable thing to do. Especially when file saved as "install.sh".

It was weird, yes. But if you never had to get individual files from github you go there, you see file list and unless you click on that link you'll never know that this link leads to webpage that make this file look fancy. There's no download button near file. No indication that it leads to other webpage.

[gudvinr]

3 hours ago, BaidDSB said:

Maybe it just shows open source is not the way to go. unless people are paid, they wont be arsed to develop things and you can only go so far with volunteer nerds.

FOSS != "volunteer nerds". And being open source doesn't mean that you can't get paid for making stuff.

That's some wild misconception about open source software.

 

People who work on Linux kernel/drivers are employees of companies who make hardware.

GNOME/KDE devs are paid from corresponding foundations.

RedHat pays many developers to work on things like MESA (graphic stack on Linux), PipeWire/PulseAudio (audio stack on Linux) systemd, libinput and other stuff that all Linux distros rely on.

Valve started to hire and pay developers and companies to develop stuff that they need to get Steam and games running on Linux.

Wine mostly developed by CodeWeavers who also pays its developers.

Blender is open source. It is funded by big companies and doing great. Krita also makes money from sales and donations. Same with Godot.

 

I specifically chose things related to desktop. In server space work on basically everything that you touch was paid by some company.

 

So you're just wrong here in your base assumption. People are getting paid for open source products.

Maybe there's not enough cash flowing. That might be true.

[finest feck fips]

10 minutes ago, gudvinr said:

Especially when file saved as "install.sh".

This is perhaps another instance of Windows users being surprised to learn that nobody except their OS takes file extensions seriously. Browsers and web servers certainly don't; the URL to those pages is determined by the filename, extension and all. When the browser offers to save the file as `install.sh`, it's offering you the file with the same name that it found on it.

That would be legit surprising to most Windows users who haven't browsed sites which do that and noticed it, of course

[Guest Linux-Is-Best]

@finest feck fips You bring up a good point, and I'd like to expand that most of the non-tech users don't even know you can right-click to save a download. That is honestly true, and most of us here would find that hard to imagine. But Windows users go for simplicity, and usually, that means clicking like crazy using their left mouse button.

[finest feck fips]

2 minutes ago, gudvinr said:

KDE devs are paid from corresponding foundations.

most KDE devs are not getting paid to work on KDE

probably because

 

3 minutes ago, gudvinr said:

Maybe there's not enough cash flowing.

 

There's a huge difference between some non-profit foundation being able to fund a little internship here and there and having even one developer paid to work on a project full time

But Linus' bad experience with that GoXLR tool, for example, has pretty much nothing to do with lack of funding for the guy who made it. GoXLR doesn't support Linux, and doesn't persist configuration in the device! That's a hardware support issue, not a UI issue