Linus reviews Surface Laptop Studio despite his investment in Framework

[Joshua5684]

I personally don't mind Linus reviewing competing laptops. I trust him enough to be unbiased, but that's not the point. My trust of him (which shouldn't mean much since I don't know him personally) should not guide morality. He also said he just wouldn't do it. I think this is a violation of his promise, unlike his review of the EVO-17S 30-SERIES, which I agree is a product targeted at a different buyer. I think the Framework Laptop and the Surface Laptop Studio are too similar of products, and they're only going to get more similar as Framework adds more features, like a touch screen.

Again, I don't really mind, but I recognize that someone else might, especially considering the original "should I invest" poll was nearly 50-50. What do you think?

[Arika]

11 minutes ago, Joshua5684 said:

I think this is a violation of his promise,

he didn't actually make a promise though

 

time stamped

 

Quote

"...i'm reluctant to completely butt out...." etc

 

[Chris Pratt]

1 hour ago, Joshua5684 said:

I think the Framework Laptop and the Surface Laptop Studio are too similar of products, and they're only going to get more similar as Framework adds more features, like a touch screen.

You're cracked. The products couldn't be more dissimilar. You need to look no further than the fact that Linus literally ripped the bottom off the Surface Laptop Studio trying to open it. The Surface Laptop Studio is literally designed as a single unit and it is what it is. The Framework is a entirely modular laptop that could be configured any number of ways. That's both its strength and its weakness. While it's near infinitely upgradeable and modifiable, it's not good at any one thing. Even if a touchscreen becomes available, it won't be one that can morph from laptop to easel to tablet, for example.

[Spotty]

My concern is using the Framework laptop in other laptop reviews as a comparison. Is the Framework laptop the closest competitor to the Microsoft Surface Studio laptop and relevant to the review of the Surface Studio laptop or is Linus just trying to feature the Framework laptop in as many videos as possible to promote it? From the review they appear to be quite different devices for different markets at different price points. The Framework laptop isn't even a 2-in-1 laptop and doesn't have a touch screen or stylus. There are other 2-in-1 laptops or laptops in a similar price range that would have been more relevant to compare to the Surface Studio. I don't see any reason why the Framework laptop had to be featured in the review for the Surface Studio laptop at all.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Spotty

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Is the Framework laptop the closest competitor to the Microsoft Surface Studio laptop

I have the same issue with Short circuit using the XPS15 as the audio comparison for everything. If you keep putting everything up against the "best" then it's going to, by default, make everything else sound shit (except for the laptop studio apparently).

 

Since Linus hasn't really done a Laptop review for a while, i don't remember if he ever made comparisons to his xps 13 2-in-1 that he had for the longest time. I get that it's convenient to use what you have close by (like how his laptop is in a lot of streams and when doing networking stuff), but yeah i did quirk an eyebrow when he bought in the framework.

[Roswell]

The inclusion of sneaking in the Framework laptop for comparisons is… comically unethical.

 

I genuinely hope they find themselves facing a lawsuit sooner rather than later so they can cut this shit out.

[Rex Hite]

I think he will recoup the money he sent to Framework from content driven by engagement. Engagement being a euphemism for outrage.

Profit from dividends or share value in Framework may be gravy, if anything.

I think it's great. He's taken a populist tech position, combined it with a  promotable product, flexed his influencer status, and ensured built-in engagement on content distanced from the initial premise. This is some advanced level PR.

[Joshua5684]

13 hours ago, Chris Pratt said:

You're cracked. The products couldn't be more dissimilar. You need to look no further than the fact that Linus literally ripped the bottom off the Surface Laptop Studio trying to open it. The Surface Laptop Studio is literally designed as a single unit and it is what it is. The Framework is a entirely modular laptop that could be configured any number of ways. That's both its strength and its weakness. While it's near infinitely upgradeable and modifiable, it's not good at any one thing. Even if a touchscreen becomes available, it won't be one that can morph from laptop to easel to tablet, for example.

The similarities I'm focusing on is the fact that their both thin and light laptops and their minimalist, silver aesthetics. If you're looking to buy a thin and light laptop, is the Surface Laptop Studio and the Framework not both options, especially since the Framework is much cheaper?

[Lurick]

4 hours ago, Roswell said:

The inclusion of sneaking in the Framework laptop for comparisons is… comically unethical.

 

I genuinely hope they find themselves facing a lawsuit sooner rather than later so they can cut this shit out.

Lol, you seem upset.

 

Seriously, what law did they break by tossing a comparison to the framework laptop AND disclosing the investment in it?

[Roswell]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

Lol, you seem upset.

 

Seriously, what law did they break by tossing a comparison to the framework laptop AND disclosing the investment in it?

They don’t have to break any law or even be dishonest, they just need one manufacturer to get annoyed enough to bring a suit for intentional misrepresentation.

 

Doesn’t even matter if the suit has no real merit, it would be a financial drain on LMG to get it dismissed and I think that’s exactly what needs to happen for them to cut the unethical nonsense.

[Circa_IlI]

22 minutes ago, Joshua5684 said:

The similarities I'm focusing on is the fact that their both thin and light laptops and their minimalist, silver aesthetics. If you're looking to buy a thin and light laptop, is the Surface Laptop Studio and the Framework not both options, especially since the Framework is much cheaper?

The Surface Laptop Studio is pretty far from being a thin and light laptop though. It's a chonky boi. Plus there's the RTX GPU you can get in the Surface, plus the touch screen. They really are two completely different devices.

[Lurick]

30 minutes ago, Roswell said:

They don’t have to break any law or even be dishonest, they just need one manufacturer to get annoyed enough to bring a suit for intentional misrepresentation.

 

Doesn’t even matter if the suit has no real merit, it would be a financial drain on LMG to get it dismissed and I think that’s exactly what needs to happen for them to cut the unethical nonsense.

Unethical in what way, you call it that but I see no evidence of it.

Also frivolous lawsuits are bullshit and to wish that on someone says you have a personal vendetta against them just to see them suffer because of some perceived wrong. Plus, and I'm not 100%, Canada has Anti-SLAAP mechanisms in place to recoup money from parties who bring baseless lawsuits against other parties.

 

Edit:

And I'd like to point out that if LTT were to poorly review a laptop that wasn't justified you do realize they are not even close to the only reviewer on YT right? They would get called out and strung up so fast they'd lose more from viewership in the long term than any bullshit lawsuit.

[Middcore]

What's actually comical is that anyone thinks Framework is a sufficiently serious threat to "normal" laptop manufacturers for there to be any conflict here worth anyone caring about.

[arnavvr]

As the others have said here in this thread, I don't think Linus owning a stake in Framework necessarily means that he is unable to review other laptops, but he does mention Framework far too often in videos that have nothing to do with the product.

 

He has already disclosed that he owns a stake in Framework, he should stop mentioning that from now on.

[Lurick]

Just now, arnavvr said:

As the others have said here in this thread, I don't think Linus owning a stake in Framework necessarily means that he is unable to review other laptops, but he does mention Framework far too often in videos that have nothing to do with the product.

 

He has already disclosed that he owns a stake in Framework, he should stop mentioning that from now on.

I think disclosing it regardless should be done on laptop videos BUT I agree they probably shouldn't compare whatever laptop is being reviewed to framework unless there is a good parallel AND it's done in an unbiased light. IE: Laptop X scores 12345 in Cinebench and Framework Laptop scores 13456 or something of that nature and that's about it.

[tikker]

Was wondering when the first of these threads would start popping up

45 minutes ago, Joshua5684 said:

The similarities I'm focusing on is the fact that their both thin and light laptops and their minimalist, silver aesthetics.

Those aren't really valid comparisons for saying they are "the same" though. Dell's XPS lineup is silver, their Latitude lineup is silver, the macbook has a silver colour, Lenovo offers thin&lights. Basically every laptop is similar nowadays apart from design, because well there are only so many CPUs and GPUs to go around.

48 minutes ago, Joshua5684 said:

If you're looking to buy a thin and light laptop, is the Surface Laptop Studio and the Framework not both options, especially since the Framework is much cheaper?

Naturally they are both options, but so are the dozen other laptops from various manufacturers. That's simply having choice.

 

I didn't hear him mention the Framework explicitely, but I did notice it on the table. Was the upload edited? Anyway, it could have done without the what seems like product placement, but otherwise nothing too bad so far.

[Joshua5684]

10 minutes ago, tikker said:

Dell's XPS lineup is silver, their Latitude lineup is silver, the macbook has a silver colour, Lenovo offers thin&lights. Basically every laptop is similar nowadays apart from design, because well there are only so many CPUs and GPUs to go around.

Right, and most of those would be fair comparisons. Why weren't they made? Why was it only compared to the Framework?

[tikker]

15 minutes ago, Joshua5684 said:

Right, and most of those would be fair comparisons. Why weren't they made? Why was it only compared to the Framework?

They compared sound and CPU performance to the XPS no? Would you mind providing a timestamp where he compares it to Framework? My brain might be spacing out, but I genuinely did not hear him compare it to Framework directly.

 

[Edit] I see it during the webcam section. Yeah, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was because he had the Framework purely because they also still compare it to the XPS. I don't recall if they compared webcam quality to other laptops in older reviews. I can agree it feels unnecessary, but nothing bad or unethical here yet in my opinion.

 

[Lightwreather]

Wait, hold on. The framework was there in a single part of the review- The camera quality section, iirc. So, I don't really see any issue here.

[Skiiwee29]

4 minutes ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

Wait, hold on. The framework was there in a single part of the review- The camera quality section, iirc. So, I don't really see any issue here.

Even so, it is a conflict of interest since he is financially invested and involved in the promotion and sales of Framework Laptops for financial benefit. Framework laptops should never be used as a comparison in any form or fashion in any laptop segment that Linus partakes in to prevent this. Debatable if it should be used period even if he's not involved. 

[InadequateComputerUser]

Fully expect that framework laptops will start to be shoe horned into videos like the LTT Store.

I did notice the laptop inclusion but he appeared unbiased and we saw the comparison, it wasn't good but unexpectedly better than the XPS.

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, InadequateComputerUser said:

Fully expect that framework laptops will start to be shoe horned into videos like the LTT Store.

I have no doubt in my mind that this will happen.

Linus just can't help himself, and then his fans will clap and go "lol so funny how he shills Framework laptops".

 

 

Speaking of Framework, it really bothers me that he pretends like the whole reparability thing is something unique to Framework. HP has been posting documentation and even video instructions on how to repair their computers, as well as where to order spare parts, for many years now and never have gotten as much as a mention.

Here is a 57 minute long video from HP's support on how to replace essentially any part in their HP 840 G7 for example, and they have these videos for a ton of laptops.

 

Or if you prefer it in a written format, you can find it here.

But I guess their parts doesn't have QR codes on them so they aren't as hip and cool.

 

Also, it probably became a lot more important to Linus when he realized he could make a lot of money investing into Framework.

Hell, I still haven't heard him acknowledge or tell his viewers that HP offers these things, even though he knows about it (he quickly skimmed over a super chat that mentioned it, and I am sure others have reached out to him about it). I wonder if Linus doesn't talk about HP's good reparability and detailed instructions because he is invested in their competitor? Since he knows about it and doesn't want to promote HP despite them doing these things for years now, it kind of makes me wonder if he is more interested in making Framework (the company he is invested in) succeed, rather than make the whole reparability movement succeed. 

[Chris Pratt]

6 hours ago, Joshua5684 said:

The similarities I'm focusing on is the fact that their both thin and light laptops and their minimalist, silver aesthetics. If you're looking to buy a thin and light laptop, is the Surface Laptop Studio and the Framework not both options, especially since the Framework is much cheaper?

"Thin and light" is a broad category now. You've got stuff like a Zephyrus 14, potentially rocking a 3080, that's not remotely in the same class, despite also being "thin and light" with "minimalist, silver aesthetics". The Apple M1 is yet another thing entirely, but again falls in your same broad categorization. The devices aren't the same, and they have entirely different target audiences.

[DeScruff]

17 hours ago, Spotty said:

I don't see any reason why the Framework laptop had to be featured in the review for the Surface Studio laptop at all.

Maybe because the laptop is closer to what Linus considers an 'ideal' laptop? or something he daily drives? Kinda like how Alex compares... everything to the Dell XPS in some manner (speakers, keyboard, touchpad exc) even if its not always the same category of computer.

The Surface was compared to a fair number of laptops in relevant areas of the reviews. The XPS 15 Cinebench performance due to the similarity in size and in price. An HP 2 in 1, for being the standard way 2 in 1s are designed. (There were more exotic designs in the past, but I don't think many (if any) with relevance today) The XPS in the speaker test (since the XPS seems to be LMG's 'gold standard' for laptop audio)  The framework came up in the webcam segment probably because the Framework does have a notably good webcamera (as noted in the pre investment review of the Framework Laptop).
I do think In an alternative timeline where Linus didn't invest in Framework, Linus would still have compared the two.

 

What does make the Framework stand out like a sore thumb though is the big emphasis on how you aren't opening this thing without breaking it.

That said... There is precedent for them opening machines with dedicated GPUs... but not surface products (and I can't recall if other surface laptops were locked down like a Macbook like this is.)
The ethics behind it are certainly mushy, so I can see why there can be some misgivings.

Though It could have been a non issue if the thing was easily openable... and Right to Repair is becoming more and more relevant every day, with how now even non-tech outlets are talking about it. (The Daily Show recently had a 10+ minute segment on it)
 

[Gaijin]

21 hours ago, Joshua5684 said:

I personally don't mind Linus reviewing competing laptops. I trust him enough to be unbiased, but that's not the point. My trust of him (which shouldn't mean much since I don't know him personally) should not guide morality. He also said he just wouldn't do it. I think this is a violation of his promise, unlike his review of the EVO-17S 30-SERIES, which I agree is a product targeted at a different buyer. I think the Framework Laptop and the Surface Laptop Studio are too similar of products, and they're only going to get more similar as Framework adds more features, like a touch screen.

Again, I don't really mind, but I recognize that someone else might, especially considering the original "should I invest" poll was nearly 50-50. What do you think?

If he had divulged his new investment but said nothing about it possibly being a conflict of interest you wouldn't have picked up on it at all. This is a non-story. Linus is well trusted in the space for a reason.