With M1X Macs now mere weeks away, Intel’s cringey PR is at it again

[saltycaramel]

And since it can’t escape the comparison with the current top offering from Apple in a 16” mobile workstation (Radeon Pro 5600M with 8GB HBM2) that it’s supposed to supersede, it will probably need to utterly destroy that, to look good. That’s a good indication that it will.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, Spindel said:

MS Teams and OneDrive

Among all the SW devs, MS still didn't manage to release AS native versions of those? If true that's an utterly stupid salty move by them.

[Spindel]

54 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Among all the SW devs, MS still didn't manage to release AS native versions of those? If true that's an utterly stupid salty move by them.

It's true. 

 

But in MS defense, thanks to apples superb Rosetta 2, they actually run equally bad on the M1 as they did on Intel Macs. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

Among all the SW devs, MS still didn't manage to release AS native versions of those? If true that's an utterly stupid salty move by them.

Teams is a garbage application and the OneDrive dev team have for years done everything possible to not support Mac OS. For YEARS the only way to use OneDrive was through the web browser, now there is an application but it only syncs your document folder and nothing else and it's non configurable.

 

OneDrive is not a replacement for Dropbox or Google Drive on Mac OS, you only use it because you have to because that's what the business uses so you get railroaded in to using the worst possible option.

[saltycaramel]

M1X development unit spotted

 

[RejZoR]

On 10/5/2021 at 5:37 PM, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Intels afraid because the macs are good.

Like really good.

And 10% of poeple who had macs with intel are people who apple is trying to get to upgrade to apple silicon.

 

The thing is, when Macs were powered by Intel, no one really put that to the forefront. It was just a Mac and it did the job done. Now everyone is talking Apple silicone titties this and silicone tiddies that... I mean silicon...

[Spindel]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Teams is a garbage application and the OneDrive dev team have for years done everything possible to not support Mac OS. For YEARS the only way to use OneDrive was through the web browser, now there is an application but it only syncs your document folder and nothing else and it's non configurable.

 

OneDrive is not a replacement for Dropbox or Google Drive on Mac OS, you only use it because you have to because that's what the business uses so you get railroaded in to using the worst possible option.

Actually I have been able to sync share point directories with onedrive on macos and other directories outside my documents folder.

 

While I say the above is possible, OneDrive is OneDrive and has crapped out on me multiple times. So I found the most rock solid way to have other directories to sync in a ”reliable” (using this term very loosley here) way is to just create a link to them in my own documents folder.

 

But the thing with OneDrive is that I find it equally bad on windows. The biggest difference is that on my windows machine (laptop) onedrive throws the cpu temp upward 90 degrees when syncing while on my M1 mac it only goes to 35 degrees.

[Bombastinator]

10 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

 

The GPU in the M1X will come in 2 varieties

- twice as big as the GPU in the M1

- four times as big as the GPU in the M1

 

Plus it’ll have better cooling being on more Premium/Pro machines.

 

Plus if it’s based on the A15 design, it should also carry some nice “IPC” (let’s borrow this expression from the CPU world) upgrades over the A14-based M1 design.

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16983/the-apple-a15-soc-performance-review-faster-more-efficient/3

 

So all things considered the top M1X GPU could very well be more than 4x faster than the M1 GPU.

 

As a side note, even the latest xbox and ps5 use a SoC/APU approach.

Well yes and no.  There are multiple chips on the console boards, though the gpu is soldered to the motherboard. The m1 had memory the cpu, and the gpu on one chip.  Similar functionally though perhaps.  I am possibly in the market for the 4x version, though I suppose a 2x might be enough.  I’m looking for performance equivelant to a 6700xt desktop when running x86 stuff.  I’ll take more if I can afford it, but that seems to be my minimum. I don’t know what 2x or 4x compares to as far as discrete GPUs goes.  Probably need to wait for reviews.  They may also be too expensive for me.  This has been the situation for many years now with apple for me.  The systems powerful enough to be useful to me.  Hopes dashed again and again.  They were wildly expensive when they existed (they didn’t always) to the point that they were unbuyable.  My last Mac was a 17” MacBook Pro (seems like it’s sandybridge), which didn’t really cut it at the time either, but I needed a laptop. Before that I subsisted with an ieee netbook with hackintosh (those things hackentoshed great) It will certainly pound all over the AMD and Intel IGPs but ATX allows for discrete cards whereas the m1X is less likely to.  Especially with IGPs that big

Edited October 7, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

9 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Among all the SW devs, MS still didn't manage to release AS native versions of those? If true that's an utterly stupid salty move by them.

They may not need to be native if they can run the x86 version.  Of course they may not.  One more “we shall see” with these things.

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Well yes and no.  There are multiple chips on the console boards, though the gpu is soldered to the motherboard.

We’ve been thru this 1 year ago already

 

 

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Spindel said:

Actually I have been able to sync share point directories with onedrive on macos and other directories outside my documents folder.

 

While I say the above is possible, OneDrive is OneDrive and has crapped out on me multiple times. So I found the most rock solid way to have other directories to sync in a ”reliable” (using this term very loosley here) way is to just create a link to them in my own documents folder.

 

But the thing with OneDrive is that I find it equally bad on windows. The biggest difference is that on my windows machine (laptop) onedrive throws the cpu temp upward 90 degrees when syncing while on my M1 mac it only goes to 35 degrees.

Teams and SharePoint syncing are actually a different thing to OneDrive, OneDrive is actually just a SharePoint Document Library under the hood btw but these two things aren't actually related.

 

OneDrive itself has it's own separate and stupid limitations, also I forget that OneDrive for Business is also a different thing from OneDrive and the tighter restrictions/lack of capability is with OneDrive for Business. Not only is your sync options worse you are limited to 15GB instead of 250GB files with regular OneDrive.

 

"OneDrive" is not One Drive lol.

 

As you say you can work around some of the limitations but why? Unless you have to use OneDrive just pick one of the less worse options, there are many.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

We’ve been thru this 1 year ago already

 

 

Could well be.  Chances are your memory is better than mine.   Just for repetition, what do you feel I am screwing up?

[Bombastinator]

55 minutes ago, Johners said:

Looking forward to seeing what rumours for this year's MacBook models end up being true or not. Even if half of them end up being correct, the MBP with M1X (or M2 if they call it that) will be a great upgrade over the already incredible launch model, especially when you factor in the price. The M1 models tempted me but I've waited for the software to mature, which it has, and now I'm waiting for newer hardware. I do hope the Pro models don't have the touch bar though.

 

Expected Intel to be upset about it though. Apple were a safe customer for them with a certain level of hardware they'd always ship no matter how bad the Intel chips actually were. Too bad Intel have lost that money and also getting pummelled by AMD in the x86 Windows market as well... even if I'd like to see NVIDIA ARM SoCs be the M1 of the Windows ecosystem.

Price is a thing I least trust with rumors. The price is what my account says after I’ve finished buying it or the reason I didn’t perhaps.For me apple has to meet a minimum performance level (which they don’t always do) and then be at least reasonably close in price to performance. (They haven’t done both at the same time in a really long time) if they can do that, I’ll buy one.  If they can’t I won’t.  They can do it with phones.  I own one of them.  My last apple full on “computer” (even though I’ve owned apple computers with vastly less computing power than my phone) that I bought was. 17” MacBook Pro.  2011.  Kind of a while. And I didn’t even buy that because I thought it was strong enough.  I bought it because I needed specifically a laptop at the time.  My last desktop from apple was an 840av.  That was very much a while.  Still hoping though.  There have been so many “we CAN do it we just won’t” situations.

[Video Beagle]

12 hours ago, RejZoR said:

The thing is, when Macs were powered by Intel, no one really put that to the forefront. It was just a Mac and it did the job done.

There were one or two "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" ads about just that. But that focused more on Mac vs Windows, and it wasn't worth Microsoft's time to take marketing shots at Apple, especially as the MSoft Mac Business Unit was one of the most inventive software development groups at the time (and MSoft would often use them as a test bed for new ideas they'd later bring to Windows software)

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Could well be.  Chances are your memory is better than mine.   Just for repetition, what do you feel I am screwing up?

There isn't a separate GPU, the consoles have a single SoC that contains the CPU cores and CPU cores within one single die and package. There are other chips/IC but they aren't GPU.

[Bombastinator]

7 hours ago, Johners said:

The core console SoC is a high-end, custom AMD APU with 16GB GDDR6 memory around it. It's your desktop APU on speed if you think about it. The additional chips are your WiFi card, Ethernet NIC, audio processing unit (for spatial audio stuff), SSD decompression unit (or the fully custom SSD controller on PS5).

I thought the Gpu was separate and bigger than the cpu, even though they aren’t far apart on the board.  My understanding was they couldn’t fit jaguar2 on the same die as the gpu. There was just too much gpu.  Fits with what we’re seeing of current AMD apus. The ones that are newer than vega don’t have a lot of power to em compared to what the consoles pack, and they’re older designs.  If AMD could fit a desktop level GPU on the same die as a CPU and have been able to for a long time, why aren’t they?  The new consoles have more-or-less desktop 5700 levels of power.  If AMD could do Intel Xe that hard you’d think they would.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Bombastinator

[Spindel]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

Teams and SharePoint syncing are actually a different thing to OneDrive, OneDrive is actually just a SharePoint Document Library under the hood btw but these two things aren't actually related.

 

OneDrive itself has it's own separate and stupid limitations, also I forget that OneDrive for Business is also a different thing from OneDrive and the tighter restrictions/lack of capability is with OneDrive for Business. Not only is your sync options worse you are limited to 15GB instead of 250GB files with regular OneDrive.

 

"OneDrive" is not One Drive lol.

 

As you say you can work around some of the limitations but why? Unless you have to use OneDrive just pick one of the less worse options, there are many.

I have to use onedrive for work  

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Spindel said:

I have to use onedrive for work  

I'm sorry, me too 

[Laborant]

 

On 10/6/2021 at 11:20 AM, Dracarris said:

That indeed is a huge problem and the reason why I have to daily use Win10, macOS, Ubuntu and CentOS. Altium and CAD are a notoriously Windows-locked field but at least for Vivado there is widespread Linux support (well that is common for chip-design EDA tools) but still no Mac version.

 

 

On 10/7/2021 at 6:25 AM, Bombastinator said:

I thought I heard somewhere that a Linux was being done for apple silicon stuff but that it wasn’t out yet.  I don’t know if that would help you or not.  Might be a dual boot would be needed. IRRC It was at one time possible to do dual boots with something called multibeast which was not an apple designed app. Doesn’t mean building such a thing is still possible though.  That might be part of the hold up.  I don’t know much about it. 

Yes, at least Vivado (and Quartus as well) has good Linux support - but that's strictly on x86. To my knowledge, there is (outside of the inofficial Windows 10 ARM VM) no possibility to run non-Mac x86-Software on an M1 Mac.

While you can run a Linux VM on an Apple Silicon Mac, it won't run x86 code - that's a non-issue for open-source software, but for Vivado and Quartus, you can only download a precompiled x86 binary. As Quartus is owned by Intel (formerly Altera) and Vivado is soon to be owned by AMD (still Xilinx) I highly doubt that these companies will offer an ARM version anytime soon.

[saltycaramel]

13 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Could well be.  Chances are your memory is better than mine.   Just for repetition, what do you feel I am screwing up?

Just what @Johners said immediately after.

CPU+GPU are on the same die on latest gen consoles.

There are other chips for other purposes (networking, etc.), just like on a M1 Mac motherboard.

But the GPU is an “integrated”, in PC parlance.

Just like on M1 Macs (so far…I suspect they’ll need to come up with discrete GPUs once they get to the point of creating a successor to the Intel MacPro).

 

Here’s an xbox series X die shot

 

 

[Dracarris]

Just now I wanted to check again on the pricing of the MBA. When I clicked on "Buy", Apple showed me this:

 

 

Apple, what are you hiding there?

Edit: This shows up for trying to buy every product on their page and not only on the US version. Huh?

[Laborant]

2 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Apple, what are you hiding there?

Apple Watch 7 preorder-window is opening in about an hour. That's why the store is offline.

[Dracarris]

Just now, Laborant said:

Apple Watch 7 preorder-window is opening in about an hour. That's why the store is offline.

Yeah just found it as well. Is that a regular thing, are they closing down the complete store for all other products every time?

[saltycaramel]

4 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Yeah just found it as well. Is that a regular thing, are they closing down the complete store for all other products every time?

Every time for big launches. 

[saltycaramel]

7 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

If AMD could fit a desktop level GPU on the same die as a CPU and have been able to for a long time, why aren’t they?  The new consoles have more-or-less desktop 5700 levels of power.  If AMD could do Intel Xe that hard you’d think they would.

 

 

Many things “could” be done but don’t make sense from a financial standpoint, from a manufacturing standpoint, from a software standpoint (on consoles, games will be tailored to that specific integrated GPU for years), etc.

 

CPUs/APUs/SoCs need to make sense based on their purpose and the returns on the investment. 

 

There’s only one chip maker (that I know of) with zero OEM customers: Apple. Their CPUs are designed only for their own usage. They don’t need to make financial sense strictly, it’s enough that the final product as a whole makes sense. Kinda like game consoles.