why do you pirate games?

[Arokan]

I used to pirate a lot of games when I were a student and couldn't effort them.
Now, I still do it occasionally, for retro-games and actually just demos...
To any single gamer, most games are shit, but which are to whom differs.
I'd say piracy would drop to some degree if games came with demos again.
I'm saying again because I remember having demo-cds in some Computer-Magazines.

 

So there's Baldur's Gate 3 on Steam now... 60 bucks, standard price for an average title. But it's still under development having only released part 1 and is full of bugs yet. 60 bucks for that now feels unjustified, but I bet it will justify itself later.
However, I could pirate a version of the current game now and make up my mind whether it'll be worth it.
I struggle with impatience, but I am going to wait rather than demo-ing it now, because I want the full experience in one piece, but that isn't the case for all titles.

I don't think there's anything wrong with students or really poor people doing it, I guess for the rest, just bring demos back.

[evilcloud]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, AlienALX said:

 

It's taking something you haven't paid for. You can dress it up however you like. It's up to people how they want to look at it. I really don't care if people do it, that's on them.

 

Look, I don't like the games industry either. Or the music industry really. They're both greedy bastards. However, I've just spent 30 years thinking about it and at the end of they day if you take something you didn't pay for then unless it was free you stole it.

sorry, but technically you are still wrong.  If you take something you didn't pay for, yes that's stealing, theft as defined by law.  However this is taking a *copy* and in the law there is a marked difference.  Doesn't really matter what you think, the law begs to differ.  Hence it's copyright infringement.  

 

Like I say, I'm not saying it's right in any way, but the law is pretty defined on this and doesn't really care what you think, or me for that matter.

 

The law is pretty much defined on technicalities so if people want to have a discussion about it, let's at least make sure we aren't flinging around made up facts, or changing what we think the law is to suit our point of view.

[grayperview]

I don't pirate games these days, I don't have any moral objection to people doing it, I just like having my games updated hassle free.

 

 I do have a price limit of £25 for what I am willing to pay for a game though, which ain't really a problem as my backlog of games that I own is about 800 games long, So I hardly ever buy a game on release day.

[AlienALX]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:20 AM, evilcloud said:

sorry, but technically you are still wrong.  If you take something you didn't pay for, yes that's stealing, theft as defined by law.  However this is taking a *copy* and in the law there is a marked difference.  Doesn't really matter what you think, the law begs to differ.  Hence it's copyright infringement.  

 

Like I say, I'm not saying it's right in any way, but the law is pretty defined on this and doesn't really care what you think, or me for that matter.

 

The law is pretty much defined on technicalities so if people want to have a discussion about it, let's at least make sure we aren't flinging around made up facts, or changing what we think the law is to suit our point of view.

 

So in your view it's still wrong but that's OK.

 

I have given you very sound reasons. BTW? going back to "I want to try it before I buy it to see how it runs" - that one doesn't wash either. You are probably trying a game that has since received updates and etc.

 

I have no issue with people doing whatever they please. However, what I do take issue with is excuse makers. IE, "I'm really not doing anything wrong". You are. If you admit it? fair enough. I just have a big issue with people trying to dance around it to condone what they are doing. You should all have been taught right from wrong. So you know it's wrong. How you dress that up though? is on you.

 

I had this same argument the other day about something different. A woman took some photos in the late 70s for a sport. She had them made into posters (she was the sister of the professional rider). People asked her for the photos, she refused claiming they belonged to her which they in fact did. People got ratty, took the photos and reproduced the poster claiming "It's only a photo, any one could have taken it". But again, we all know that's bullshit too, because most places will not allow you to just download a photo now (you would have to screen grab it) and that is because someone does indeed own it. IE, whoever shot it.

 

All it turns out to be is people dancing around the facts. IE, a game coder "only types on a keyboard therefore I don't think his product is worth as much as a physical thing I can buy" and so on. Same goes for music and all over digital content. It's still someone's work and it still belongs to someone. Unless it is a freeware product etc? you have no right to take it without paying for it, no matter how shit it might be.

 

This debate goes in other directions too. Most notably the recent thing where G2A were allowing people to sell cheap stolen keys. Which the game creators then had to refund people for. Meaning that they ended up making a statement to say "That you may as well just steal our games because it hurts us less".

 

If you want any evidence of what happens when you just take a product? look at how Nintendo deal with it. You give me one instance where someone was hosting ROMs or etc and managed to excuse their way out of it. You won't find one. Any one who took them on lost.

[tikker]

On 9/16/2021 at 8:20 AM, evilcloud said:

sorry, but technically you are still wrong.  If you take something you didn't pay for, yes that's stealing, theft as defined by law.  However this is taking a *copy* and in the law there is a marked difference.  Doesn't really matter what you think, the law begs to differ.  Hence it's copyright infringement.  

Technically speaking you are obtaining a copy. Also techincally speaking you are downloading illegally distributed material, which makes your act the illegal attainment of copyrighted material. It's a bit like saying stealing money from a bank is just you withdrawing the money you have there on your savings account. EU law indeed allows for a private-use copy. The European Court of Justice has however ruled that copies from illegal sources are not covered by this law, and thus prohibited. This was ruled in this court case, explained a bit more here (in context of further ramifactions in Dutch law):

Quote

the Court holds that national legislation which makes no distinction between private copies made from lawful sources and those made from counterfeited or pirated sources cannot be tolerated.

The law book doesn't explicitely in verbatim say it's illegal to my knowledge, but combined with other directives EU court has ruled no, piracy is not an allowed form of making a private copy

 

1 hour ago, AlienALX said:

I have given you very sound reasons. BTW? going back to "I want to try it before I buy it to see how it runs" - that one doesn't wash either. You are probably trying a game that has since received updates and etc.

Good point actually. I completely forgot about the annoyance with cracks, being stuck with a certain older version and all that crap.

1 hour ago, AlienALX said:

I have no issue with people doing whatever they please. However, what I do take issue with is excuse makers. IE, "I'm really not doing anything wrong". You are. If you admit it? fair enough. I just have a big issue with people trying to dance around it to condone what they are doing. You should all have been taught right from wrong. So you know it's wrong. How you dress that up though? is on you

1 hour ago, AlienALX said:

If you want any evidence of what happens when you just take a product? look at how Nintendo deal with it. You give me one instance where someone was hosting ROMs or etc and managed to excuse their way out of it. You won't find one. Any one who took them on lost.

It's kind of interesting how normal piracy is for the pre-streaming generation. It's still a crime, but it has been so ingrained that it's normal Nintendo is one of the few really cracking down hard on it (a little overzealous in tangential aspects), but despite the flack they get for it that is technically how it should all work.

 

@Dragonwinged probably too late for the poll, but another interesting option would have been repacks. Disk space isn't the biggest issue nowadays anymore, but games can still be ridiculously large and compressible.

[AlienALX]

At the beginning no one understood. When I was downloading old music I hadn't heard in 20 years from Napster because it was never even available digitally (12" white label records that never became albums) I had no idea it was theft. Two years passed (or so) before Napster were hauled into court. And found guilty, and bought out by a company who tried to turn it into a legit way to sell music.

 

Now? quite often I still have that "excuse". IE, the music I am looking for is so obscure that the only way to obtain it is by stealing it. I know what I am doing. Sadly the part of me that desperately wants to hear that music again usually wins against my conscience.

 

I also used to use that same argument when playing games I had not paid for. "It's probably broken" etc. And, I had good reason to feel that way. I had bought many "bummy" games in the past, and on software? there was no refund. Once you had opened that game? even if it were completely broken and not even playable? you were screwed. And this was wrong. Really, really wrong. If you bought a bike and the first time you rode it it snapped in two you would rightfully return it. I suppose many people will want actual examples of this before the digital age? the game I refer to was Pit Fighter on the SNES. It was fine on the Megadrive, but on the SNES it was a totally broken mess. It was impossible to attack any one, it would usually just pause and you would be dead. £55 I paid for that. Could not get a refund, and as soon as people found out how terrible that port was? it was worthless, too.

 

The law used to be absolutely loaded in favour of developers. They bent the rules for nearly three decades on this. Then finally it all got hauled into court and Gabe and co had to start giving people back their money. So, whilst people who took the software used their reasons the devs also used their reasons too. Two wrongs etc.

 

Now though? software has been basically changed to the same as any other purchase. As such if a product stinks? then you have a right to a refund. Which? negates needing demos (and yeah, I used to like those but I think devs soon realised if they made a shitty product there was no hiding it) and so on. Now? even if the game is fine but you just don't want it you can get a refund. You can't use the same arguments you used before. I can't either. If I bought Pit Fighter today? haha it would go back taped to a brick.

 

The world has changed a lot. I was raised never to be stupid and hand over money before I got my goods. Now? hahaha people do it all the time. Stumping up cash for things that they may not even get. It's *crazy*. Pre orders too. WTF even is that? LOL. "Oh I will just pre order this having absolutely no idea if I will get it, let alone if it will be any good".

 

Lesson learned there too. Yeah, I was one of those dumb mofos who handed over something like $30 to EB for the Duke Nukem Forever balls of steel in like, what? 2002? I never got it and I never got my money back either. So that's taught me never to pre order anything. I didn't pre order Cyberpunk either and look at that shit show. Hiding the console performance, only showing PC footage etc etc. All of the reasons why you should stop handing un-trustable people your money before they have goods.

[Robioto]

I don't pirate any new games and have not for many years (15-20) as I can afford them, I couldn't when I was a student.

 

Now, I only download old hard to get games for emulation, but probably 80% of those games are ones I already own on their respective consoles, but playing them modded or upscaled on PC is far more appealing than playing the originals.