Floatplane and Bill C10 (could it be an issue)

[wanderingfool2]

Prefacing this by saying to people don't make this political (hint don't make comparisons between countries, don't mention Canadian politics).  The following is just discussing ramifications of C10, if passed, on Floatplane.

 

My assumption is that @LinusTech , or rather someone at Floatplane has already thought about this, but what will happen to Floatplane if Bill C-10 is passed?

 

From my understanding of bill C-10, it could classify Floatplane as a broadcaster (https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/charter-charte/c10.html)

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The Bill would provide the Commission with new powers to regulate online services, and update the Commission’s regulatory powers as they relate to traditional broadcasters.

This would be a bit worrying, as the CRTC requires Canadian broadcasters to have a certain amount of Canadian produced content.  I don't know the specifics of C-10, but it would be great to hear an opinion on someone who knows better, or works at Floatplane as to whether C-10 might affect future services.

 

From my thought on it, would it start requiring it to have subtitles on everything, reducing the American content (or at least requiring for more Canadian content)...or worst case, I wonder if it could mean a higher rate as they would have to end up paying into the pool of funds that the CRTC collects for creating Canadian content.

 

Anyways, thoughts or incite would be great

[Pitboy64]

I think there could be a benefit for Luke and Linus to bring this up on the WAN Show,
as it is about Canadian based content creation, as well as hosting Canadian and non Canadian creators and content, from the perspective of a Youtube Creator (LTT) and an independent platform in competition with Youtube (Floatplane).  

Questions:
How would Floatplane or LTT have to adjust its output to not fall afoul of this regulation (recognising these two entities may suffer in very different ways)?
For LTT;
- Is having any non-Canadian company advertised in an LTT video, in alignment with 'Canadian Content'? 
- Is interviewing a non Canadian youtuber about tech, a non-Canadian content venture? 
- Is reviewing a non-Canadian product 'Canadian Content'? 
- Is quoting a non-Canadian products non-Canadian $ price ... a no-no?
- Just what is defined as 'Canadian Content' tech product news reporting (TechNews)?
For Floatplane;
- is hosting a non Canadian creator (lets say Bitwit) now pointedly against the regulation or will Luke have to separate the promotion of Canadian vs non-Canadian content creators?
- It 'sounds like' a platform may have to conform to these rules only if they have a $250million per year revenue stream, and obviously Floatplane is not there yet, but if that $ number is true, how does that affect Floatplane on both sides of that $ scale?

If a Canadian content publisher (like LTT on Youtube, or Floatplane itself as a platform for independent content) is not to be included in what they are talking about ie; the potential 'Canadian Content youtube section' on youtubes dashboard (the thrown around idea), that intends to promote Canadian Content ... will the usual algorithm miss these Canadian content producers entirely, like LTT because the video is  reviewing an iphone?

Will Floatplane have to include a 'section' to separately promote Canadian made content?  And what does that content have to look like or include? 

What makes an iphone or intel or even a Canadian product content piece ... Canadian?

 

Theres a lot to this, and it would be interesting to hear Linus and Luke try to help us problem solve some of the hurdles that could be faced from their different perspectives.

**I tried very hard to keep this non political, and are speaking and asking about how any legislation could affect my user experience following both LTT and Floatplane, without branching into the arena of political discourse.  In our little world here, we have two excellent examples with 2 very differing potential effects; a Youtube based content creator and a platform itself, that are symbiotically linked. 
These are just thought experiment questions to consider**

Discuss.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

2 hours ago, Pitboy64 said:

Questions:
How would Floatplane or LTT have to adjust its output to not fall afoul of this regulation (recognising these two entities may suffer in very different ways)?
For LTT;
- Is having any non-Canadian company advertised in an LTT video, in alignment with 'Canadian Content'? 
- Is interviewing a non Canadian youtuber about tech, a non-Canadian content venture? 
- Is reviewing a non-Canadian product 'Canadian Content'? 
- Is quoting a non-Canadian products non-Canadian $ price ... a no-no?
- Just what is defined as 'Canadian Content' tech product news reporting (TechNews)?
For Floatplane;
- is hosting a non Canadian creator (lets say Bitwit) now pointedly against the regulation or will Luke have to separate the promotion of Canadian vs non-Canadian content creators?
- It 'sounds like' a platform may have to conform to these rules only if they have a $250million per year revenue stream, and obviously Floatplane is not there yet, but if that $ number is true, how does that affect Floatplane on both sides of that $ scale?

...Do any of you people even know what 'CanCon' even is?  A television drama, filmed in Canada, but set in the United States or anywhere but Canada, is CanCon.  The Expanse is CanCon.  Mrs. America was CanCon.  The X-Files was CanCon.  Seriously, even anime that was dubbed in Canada, is CanCon.  Yeah guys, the original dub of the Japanese anime Sailor Moon?  That was CanCon.

An entire YouTube channel shot and filmed in Canada, staffed by Canadians, permanent residents, or those working in Canada with sufficient work Visa is, so CanCon you don't have to wonder if there's some scenario where it might not be.

[Heliian]

The bill is aimed at places like Netflix, primevideo and any other streaming service in Canada.  By extension it MIGHT mean that YouTube and float plane would be affected.  

They want to bring streaming in line with all the other mediums regarding cancon.  That's fine, we should have Canadian content in Canada, it encourages development of local talent instead of just getting it somewhere else all the time.  This could be a good thing for Canadian creators. 

No, the government isn't trying to censor your social media, people be trippin over nothing imo. 

[WkdPaul]

* thread cleaned *

 

As stated in the Community Standards, political discussion isn't allowed.

 

Also, If you're curious about 'Canadian Heritage', this isn't the thread as this is about the potential impact of the bill C-10 on Floatplane, so please stay on-topic.

[wanderingfool2]

15 hours ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

...Do any of you people even know what 'CanCon' even is?  A television drama, filmed in Canada, but set in the United States or anywhere but Canada, is CanCon.  The Expanse is CanCon.  Mrs. America was CanCon.  The X-Files was CanCon.  Seriously, even anime that was dubbed in Canada, is CanCon.  Yeah guys, the original dub of the Japanese anime Sailor Moon?  That was CanCon.

An entire YouTube channel shot and filmed in Canada, staffed by Canadians, permanent residents, or those working in Canada with sufficient work Visa is, so CanCon you don't have to wonder if there's some scenario where it might not be.

Yea, in terms of LTT itself I don't think they have as much to worry about.  Their videos are clearly Canadian content.  My thought with LTT videos though is they -might- be required to offer closed caption (CC) on all material [and with accordance with CRTC regulations have a 100% accuracy rate].  I don't know though, it will all depend on how it's eventually written.  I could be wrong on this next point, it could potentially mean CC would have to have a French option as well.

 

My bigger worry would be about whether C-10 would affect Floatplane.  Specifically around the fact that their CanCon might not reach the required percentage, around the fact that they have other American content creators posting to it.  I think the percentage is around 60% CanCon required.

[WillOfTheLand]

Here's a deeper dive into it from a canadian law professor.

 

https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2021/05/not-just-big-techbillc10/

 

Not Just Big Tech: Government Memo Shows Bill C-10 Targets News Sites, Podcast and Workout Apps, Adult Websites, Audiobooks, and Sports Streamers for CRTC Regulation

 

Here's the memo for those who just want to read it.

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/508665790/A-2020-00498-Heritage-c10-Digital-Exclusion

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, WillOfTheLand said:

Here's the memo for those who just want to read it.

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/508665790/A-2020-00498-Heritage-c10-Digital-Exclusion

Thanks for the update.

 

Based on the Michael Geist's article, and reading the Access To Information released memo I am actually concerned about the scope of the bill and how it would affect LTT in general.  Given the list of sites/services that is being targeted, I am going to assume that Floatplane would fall into this fray.

 

That would mean having to register with the CRTC, and potentially paying money towards the Canadian content fund (based on the number of Canadians that are subscribed).  I would really like to hear Linus' thoughts on this; and the effect that it could have on Floatplane/LTT.  Of course LTT itself would also be affected (in that they would still have to register with the CRTC)...and then maybe have to follow some of the CRTC rules.

[WillOfTheLand]

2 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Thanks for the update.

 

Based on the Michael Geist's article, and reading the Access To Information released memo I am actually concerned about the scope of the bill and how it would affect LTT in general.  Given the list of sites/services that is being targeted, I am going to assume that Floatplane would fall into this fray.

 

That would mean having to register with the CRTC, and potentially paying money towards the Canadian content fund (based on the number of Canadians that are subscribed).  I would really like to hear Linus' thoughts on this; and the effect that it could have on Floatplane/LTT.  Of course LTT itself would also be affected (in that they would still have to register with the CRTC)...and then maybe have to follow some of the CRTC rules.

If I manage to catch the wan show live I'll send a superchat asking what their thoughts on it are, it would be a good place to discuss it especially with luke, who's in charge of floatplane, there to air his thoughts to. Problem being there's no consistent time when it goes live and being on the east coast one time they didn't go live till after I was asleep.

 

 

Here's another one from Michael Geist with what was said that the bill would be intended for, so I think you might be onto something about them having to pay in, but it would seem it's not just their floatplane endeavors that would end up costing them. Large channels with lots of views and followers would also get included. 

 

https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2021/05/guilbeaultc10regulationusers/

[WillOfTheLand]

Here's another in depth piece on it from him.

 

https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2021/05/the-bill-c-10-effect-why-canadian-consumers-face-a-future-of-cancon-surcharges-and-blocked-services/

The Bill C-10 Effect: Why Canadian Consumers Face a Future of Cancon Surcharges and Blocked Services

 

 TLDR it doesn't look good

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The higher costs for streaming services that continue to operate in Canada is only part of the story. While companies such as Netflix are likely to stay engaged in the Canadian market, a myriad of smaller streaming services may not. Molotov, Spuul, Kocowa, and Crunchyroll may not be household names, but they are among the hundreds of streaming services that have emerged in recent years to serve a global audience via the Internet. Unless the CRTC provides specific exemptions for these niche services, many are likely to forego the Canadian market entirely, given all the new regulatory costs and the implausibility of meeting Canadian-content requirements.

 

The end result will be less competition in Canada, with multicultural markets especially hard hit by what will amount to a Canadian regulatory firewall. Streaming companies may instead choose to license their content to existing Canadian providers, so as to avoid dealing with the CRTC. The new regulations will be a boon to companies like Bell, whose Crave streaming service already promotes exclusive access to foreign content from services such as HBO and Showtime, which it makes available at a premium to subscribers.

The fallout from Bill C-10 for freedom of expression and the regulation of user generated content has rightly garnered considerable attention given the unprecedented regulatory scope of the bill. From a consumer perspective, the bill will lead to services either passing along hundreds of millions in fees through regulatory surcharges or blocked foreign services that licence their content to domestic Internet streaming services, who will increasingly become indistinguishable from cable television.

 

 

Here's a similar comment from another site on the matter.

 

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Still haven't seen any C10 supporters answer this question, how would this affect streaming platforms that exist purely for non canadian content?

Like Crunchyroll or Funimation, which stream subtitled and dubbed anime movies and TV shows. Stuff that isn't really available to a western audience otherwise. Mostly japanese origin but also some chinese/korean.

In what way could they ever reasonably offer canadian content? Fund some garbage "canadian anime" that 100% of their users will hate on sight? Or pay a unreasonable fine?

No one goes out of their way to sub to Crunchyroll so they can see Canadian shows, that's fucking absurd. Might as well penalize a sushi shop for not serving poutine.