"Warning Cringe Alert" Recovering Data from used Ebay Drives - Assh*le move ?

[Haraikomono]

Hi,

we recently made a little experiment at our admin circle, where we started testdisk on a used hardware that came with

and old laptop from ebay.

 

And as you may have thought, we managed to recover all the data on the drives.

Now to my question:

Does attempting to recover data from used drives, make you an ass ? Or is it the risk, the seller is willing to go when selling the drive too.

 

[kelvinhall05]

5 minutes ago, Haraikomono said:

Does attempting to recover data from used drives, make you an ass ?

Yes. You shouldn't even need to ask this lmao.

[Haraikomono]

Just now, kelvinhall05 said:

Yes. You shouldn't even need to ask this lmao.

But if you willingly sell your harddrive with personal Data on it on a second hand plattform, wouldnt you at least worry about the risk, and maybe remove the hdd/ssd ?

[minibois]

It's probably one of those things that is morally questionable and because morals are subjective, something some people will find appalling and others will say "well that's what can happen" (and of course a lot of people with an opinion inbetween).

 

A lot of people online probably don't know their data can be recovered, even after a simple format of Windows. A lot of people probably think "Well who cares about my  data?", etc.

Then there will be situations where a tech will take a laptop from a customer in for repair, decides they'd rather sell a new laptop, rather than fix this one. What do they do with the old laptop? Sell it online, but maybe they didn't take their diligence in probably formatting the drive in the system. So you can't always say "well it's the sellers fault for selling a drive with their data on it!"

 

As for my opinion, I'd be against doing that.

If someone for example asked me "hey I bought this laptop second hand, can you try to get the data off it for me?", I'd tell them no.

 

As for legally, I think this is pretty gray area, but it'd probably depend on the way the item is sold. I can imagine if the drive is formatted and you still manage to get the data off of it, some judge may rule that as hacking, but don't quote me on that, just guessing

[kelvinhall05]

Just now, Haraikomono said:

But if you willingly sell your harddrive with personal Data on it on a second hand plattform, wouldnt you at least worry about the risk, and maybe remove the hdd/ssd ?

You're going out of your way to recover files that were almost certainly deleted the best way the seller knew how. That is such a dick move and quite frankly I can't believe you'd think otherwise.

[Haraikomono]

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

It's probably one of those things that is morally questionable and because morals are subjective, something some people will find appalling and others will say "well that's what can happen" (and of course a lot of people with an opinion inbetween).

 

A lot of people online probably don't know their data can be recovered, even after a simple format of Windows. A lot of people probably think "Well who cares about my  data?", etc.

Then there will be situations where a tech will take a laptop from a customer in for repair, decides they'd rather sell a new laptop, rather than fix this one. What do they do with the old laptop? Sell it online, but maybe they didn't take their diligence in probably formatting the drive in the system. So you can't always say "well it's the sellers fault for selling a drive with their data on it!"

 

As for my opinion, I'd be against doing that.

If someone for example asked me "hey I bought this laptop second hand, can you try to get the data off it for me?", I'd tell them no.

 

As for legally, I think this is pretty gray area, but it'd probably depend on the way the item is sold. I can imagine if the drive is formatted and you still manage to get the data off of it, some judge may rule that as hacking, but don't quote me on that, just guessing

 

Just now, kelvinhall05 said:

You're going out of your way to recover files that were almost certainly deleted the best way the seller knew how. That is such a dick move and quite frankly I can't believe you'd think otherwise.

Definetly on the side of you when it comes to it being a douche move, but in reality I cant help but be baffled at the faces of my relatives when I tell them: "hey, the laptop you just sold on ebay, did you remove the harddrive ?", and if they say no, and I explain to them what can happen, I get to be an asshole for not telling them beforehand I know its none of my buisness to tell people what to do with their stuff, but it just seems a lot of people really dont care about that

[GDRRiley]

you were an a$$. dont recover data on a drive that isn't yours

[Haraikomono]

38 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

you were an a$$. dont recover data on a drive that isn't yours

Isn't the drive my property once I purchase it ? So, the content is also my property, or not ?

[kelvinhall05]

9 minutes ago, Haraikomono said:

Isn't the drive my property once I purchase it ? So, the content is also my property, or not ?

I can't believe you're still trying to justify this. Disgusting.

[GDRRiley]

12 minutes ago, Haraikomono said:

Isn't the drive my property once I purchase it ? So, the content is also my property, or not ?

you own the drive sure but not the data on it

if there was illegal stuff are you going to claim you own the data? I'd assume not so don't claim it no matter what

[Haraikomono]

13 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

you own the drive sure but not the data on it

I really wonder what the actual legal status of the files are in a case like this.

I mean sure, there hasnt been an agreement between the previous owner and the buyer about the ownership of files residing in the medium,

but there is a agreement about the medium in form of a sale, if the owner has not correctly deleted the files on the drive, shouldnt the person be responsible about negligence in handling with their own data?

 

If I sell a purse online, and it turns out that the buyer found some cash inside of the purse. Who legally owns that cash then ?

[Haraikomono]

16 minutes ago, kelvinhall05 said:

I can't believe you're still trying to justify this. Disgusting.

Im not justifying it in any way, its just a thought experiment. Trying to find out, who is in the wrong here.

[Calidus]

Some people don't even format, I've got a laptop in the past that had windows with their user account which didn't have a password. Thankfully they didn't leave any photos and it just had what seemed to be a bunch of school work. I obviously didn't keep anything, just formatted the drive, but their seems to be people who don't take it seriously or simply don't care.

[BondiBlue]

IMO yes, it does make you an ass. Lots of people don't know how to properly format their computers, so they try their best but might not always do it right. I work with used hardware for a living, and I've dealt with this a lot. If you get a device that was wiped in any way (whether truly secure or not) and you try to recover data then you're rightfully an ass. Don't waste your time doing that. Plus, most of the things people leave on computers are pretty boring. 

[Haraikomono]

After a week now, we managed to recover data from all 20 Hard drives, mostly private data but also Buisness Data.

That shows, formatting alone wont be enough to erase your past you need to shred it multiple times or destroy the drive

[BondiBlue]

2 hours ago, Haraikomono said:

After a week now, we managed to recover data from all 20 Hard drives, mostly private data but also Buisness Data.

That shows, formatting alone wont be enough to erase your past you need to shred it multiple times or destroy the drive

You really went through all that? Yeah, that confirms my first comment. 

[GDRRiley]

3 hours ago, Haraikomono said:

After a week now, we managed to recover data from all 20 Hard drives, mostly private data but also Buisness Data.

That shows, formatting alone wont be enough to erase your past you need to shred it multiple times or destroy the drive

or you use a real wiping program. like kill disk or DBAN

[whispous]

Regardless of the fact that it is possible to have recovered this data, I hope you understand that by doing so you may have comitted a criminal act depending on your local laws.

[Haraikomono]

11 minutes ago, whispous said:

Regardless of the fact that it is possible to have recovered this data, I hope you understand that by doing so you may have comitted a criminal act depending on your local laws.

the act itself to recover the files isnt a big deal, its what you do do with them afterwards that can be a criminal act.

 

we deleted the files after each hdd, so our purpose was to make a point that people might be a little to ignorant when it comes to the security of their private files

[AMD A10-9600P]

6 hours ago, Haraikomono said:

After a week now, we managed to recover data from all 20 Hard drives, mostly private data but also Buisness Data.

That shows, formatting alone wont be enough to erase your past you need to shred it multiple times or destroy the drive

You really are an ass man. People in the thread told you that it's morally questionable at best, and illegal at the worst, yet you still went on to harvest other peoples personal data from 20 fricking drives? 20 drives will cover a hell of a lot of people and their data.

 

That's not right. How do you not see the issue with this??

 

Regardless of whether you delete the files or not when you are done, you still have had access to a bunch of files that you were never supposed to. "I mean, yeah I did open the purse and have a look around, but it's okay because I threw everything inside away when I was done!", that doesn't sound right does it.

 

If you sold someone an old drive, after thinking you'd wiped it, just for them to go and recover all your data, you'd feel violated. It's not just about making a point as well, you don't know what is stored on those drives. They could be from hospitals, police departments, government departments, wherever, with private spending and personal data. This could constitute a criminal act at it's worst, depending on how in depth and private the data you recovered was. At the very best, what you did is probably in a grey area of the law, but still a major violation of the former owners privacy.

 

You didn't need to make a point that people can be "ignorant" when selling old drives. We know that not everyone has the expertise to completely erase a drive that they are selling, this is well known within the tech community and has been for years and years and years. What I find ignorant is that you started a thread to ask about the moral issues with this, yet still went on and did it after being told all the reasons not to! By knowing how to do this, you should have had an obligation to simply just delete the files and move on, yet you tried to recover files from all 20 drives!

[Fatih19]

If I were to commit something that is morally questionable and can be seen as illegal, I certainly wouldn't tell it on a public forum. I would just said 'ok' once several people told me it's morally questionable, memory-hole this thread, and still do the thing if for some whatever twisted reason I still wanted to do it. 

[Haraikomono]

1 hour ago, AMD A10-9600P said:

They could be from hospitals, police departments, government departments, wherever, with private spending and personal data. This could constitute a criminal act at it's worst, depending on how in depth and private the data you recovered was. At the very best, what you did is probably in a grey area of the law, but still a major violation of the former owners privacy.

that proves my point.

there have been several studies in this regard, trying to find out if secure erasure is being applied at companies or individuals, these go back a decade now.

but even in 2021 to think that people still wonder how other entities got hold of their data is a area, that is still inexcusable.

its just plain dumb

[AMD A10-9600P]

25 minutes ago, Haraikomono said:

that proves my point.

there have been several studies in this regard, trying to find out if secure erasure is being applied at companies or individuals, these go back a decade now.

but even in 2021 to think that people still wonder how other entities got hold of their data is a area, that is still inexcusable.

its just plain dumb

Did you listen to what you typed before you posted it?? You're proving everyone else's points whenever you reply and making your own "arguments" weaker and weaker.

 

You do not work at these companies. You are not these individuals. That was not your data. It is not your business. You were in the wrong by recovering it, regardless of whether it was just to prove a point or not. We already know that not everyone can securely erase a drive, and if you know that, why didn't you just do them a favour and erase the drives and then move on with your life, instead of recovering personal and business files that were not yours. Again, it could be a criminal act (depending on where you live), and it is very morally wrong. Those files are the business of the former owner of the drive and not yours, it's really not that hard to understand.

 

You know what else is "inexcusable" and "plain dumb"? Recovering the files of strangers from 20 old drives without any consent whatsoever and continually trying to justify it. People like you are the reason that others get hold of these files; you specifically bought the drives in order to get a hold of them! I'd love to know what kind of safety measures you put in place so that your little game didn't inadvertently leak any sensitive information. You know what types of files are stored on those drives, so you must have gone looking through and opening them, giving you information that you never had the right to have, snooping in on strangers lives. If I was selling one of those drives, I would feel extremely violated to have found that the buyer went to extreme lengths to recover my personal data (like bank statements, expense reports, family photos, work documents, all those normal files that people keep on their computers); I'd probably file a very angry complaint with your company, or even go to the local police.

 

I just cannot fathom why you keep coming back to try and justify this, you're just incriminating yourself over and over.

[Haraikomono]

17 minutes ago, AMD A10-9600P said:

Did you listen to what you typed before you posted it?? You're proving everyone else's points whenever you reply and making your own "arguments" weaker and weaker.

 

You do not work at these companies. You are not these individuals. That was not your data. It is not your business. You were in the wrong by recovering it, regardless of whether it was just to prove a point or not. We already know that not everyone can securely erase a drive, and if you know that, why didn't you just do them a favour and erase the drives and then move on with your life, instead of recovering personal and business files that were not yours. Again, it could be a criminal act (depending on where you live), and it is very morally wrong. Those files are the business of the former owner of the drive and not yours, it's really not that hard to understand.

 

You know what else is "inexcusable" and "plain dumb"? Recovering the files of strangers from 20 old drives without any consent whatsoever and continually trying to justify it. People like you are the reason that others get hold of these files; you specifically bought the drives in order to get a hold of them! I'd love to know what kind of safety measures you put in place so that your little game didn't inadvertently leak any sensitive information. You know what types of files are stored on those drives, so you must have gone looking through and opening them, giving you information that you never had the right to have, snooping in on strangers lives. If I was selling one of those drives, I would feel extremely violated to have found that the buyer went to extreme lengths to recover my personal data (like bank statements, expense reports, family photos, work documents, all those normal files that people keep on their computers); I'd probably file a very angry complaint with your company, or even go to the local police.

 

I just cannot fathom why you keep coming back to try and justify this, you're just incriminating yourself over and over.

you are viewing this too much from a subjective standpoint, try to be more reasonable.

 

but I guess I could say that I got enough views of people to get a small picture on why people decide to sell their drives.

 

for future topics, please look at the whole picture, instead of letting personal feelings take over.

 

thank you

[AMD A10-9600P]

3 minutes ago, Haraikomono said:

you are viewing this too much from a subjective standpoint, try to be more reasonable.

 

but I guess I could say that I got enough views of people to get a small picture on why people decide to sell their drives.

 

for future topics, please look at the whole picture, instead of letting personal feelings take over.

 

thank you

Dude haha you asked for people's opinions on whether it was an asshole move, so expect to hear back other people's opinions and feelings! I'm just giving my opinion, and by the looks of it, everyone else in the thread (except you) shares my opinion. I left my reply until later so that I could see the entire story develop, and I have absolutely zero respect for what you have done, so I am sharing my view. My standpoint is a very reasonable one anyway; if I sold a drive I would be extremely angry and would feel hugely violated if somebody harvested my old data off of it, even if I had thought I'd properly wiped it. I would not want a stranger to have gained access to my bank statements, personal photos, work documents, expenses, addresses, phone numbers, emails, account logins, and so on and so on. The reality is, not everyone in this world is a tech guru, so it shouldn't be a surprise that these drives haven't been properly wiped, but because you have the knowhow to wipe them, you should have done the honourable thing and wiped them without snooping through the files. Again, they're not your files, it's very simple. Not yours, don't look.

 

I'm going to leave it at this, because your inconsistent story and nonsensical replies aren't worth my time. This is very, very simple; you were in the wrong for recovering personal and business data with no consent. Find a different way to prove your point, other than violating people's privacy. You potentially broke the law, and you went against the moral compasses of everyone else who replied, so that should be a pretty clear sign that what you have done is wrong.