Your unpopular (non-political, non-offensive) opinions!

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Heh. Drove on my second roundabout last week.  Screwed it up bad.  Roundabouts are actually quite old, but they didn’t and still don’t exist in most of the US.  There are more lately though.  They’re generally done as an alternative to stop signed intersections.  They are faster but can be very confusing to the uninitiated. 

To get to my sisters house one of the routes takes you thru 3 and the roads are kinda major ones in the area. She actually got into a accident in one because some dumb fuck couldnt handle going thru it properly. They work in Europe, not the US. I see more and more of them. Im convinced people around these parts are too ignorant and dont know how to read. Because honestly the regulatory signage is pretty fucking clear. But people cant read speed limit signs, stop signs and hell some dont even know they need stop at a red light. 

[Quackers101]

10 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

To get to my sisters house one of the routes takes you thru 3 and the roads are kinda major ones in the area. She actually got into a accident in one because some dumb fuck couldnt handle going thru it properly. They work in Europe, not the US. I see more and more of them. Im convinced people around these parts are too ignorant and dont know how to read. Because honestly the regulatory signage is pretty fucking clear. But people cant read speed limit signs, stop signs and hell some dont even know they need stop at a red light. 

they dont always work in the EU either. Which is a negative thing about them. That you do have to make some rules around the roundabouts to make it safe.

As sometimes it can be too quick between highspeed sections to slow speed roundabouts. Then you need the line of sight to work, if not you don't see cars in your blind zones. Then there is on and off part, to multi lane roundabouts. I hate multi lane roundabouts, sometimes it works very well. but other times it's taking away all the advantages of a roundabout and you have to cross a lot of lanes, if going from the inside ring in a roundabout when going out of the roundabout. Sometimes in high enough speed where collision risk increases a lot.

 

then you have the stupid thing to add even more to the whole situation, like complex roundabouts + many pedestrian crosswalks in both entry and exit path.

so not just a lot of lane shifting in a small time, but then also putting walking people at risk in a high demand situation. of course one could drive slower, but again that breaks the flow and at times could cause more annoyed people/collisions to happen.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Quackers101

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

To get to my sisters house one of the routes takes you thru 3 and the roads are kinda major ones in the area. She actually got into a accident in one because some dumb fuck couldnt handle going thru it properly. They work in Europe, not the US. I see more and more of them. Im convinced people around these parts are too ignorant and dont know how to read. Because honestly the regulatory signage is pretty fucking clear. But people cant read speed limit signs, stop signs and hell some dont even know they need stop at a red light. 

That dumb fuck wasn’t me, I swear.  When I screwed it up I was the only one there.  Except for my terrified passenger of course.  I don’t know if he will drive with me anymore.

 

also, wrong continent, but still..

[IPD]

I mean, to be fair, this IS the US of A.  We have people that won't even pull into the intersection in the turn lane on a green light--even if there's no oncoming traffic.  We have people who will pull into the intersection even though the flow of traffic clearly indicates they won't be able to clear the intersection before the light turns red.

 

I blame driver's ed.  It's not a roundabout issue.  It's not a traffic signal issue.  It's that we have morons driving legally.  Stupid should hurt.  Stupid should be expensive.

[SansVarnic]

Roundabouts, though an interesting idea are a massive waste of space, take up twice the land of a normal intersection. I understand the purpose behind roundabouts but they do not improve traffic flow from a normal intersection by much, hardly measurable especially anything over a double lane roundabout. Diamond intersections, however, do have a measurable improvement.

 Roundabouts are an extremely poor solution to any traffic flow issue.

[Bitter]

Just now, SansVarnic said:

Roundabouts, though an interesting idea are a massive waste of space, take up twice the land of a normal intersection. I understand the purpose behind roundabouts but they do not improve traffic flow from a normal intersection by much, hardly measurable especially anything over a double lane roundabout. Diamond intersections, however, do have a measurable improvement.

 Roundabouts are an extremely poor solution to any traffic flow issue.

I thought there's less accidents?

[SansVarnic]

5 minutes ago, Bitter said:

I thought there's less accidents?

I am told so, but not by much, but neither I do not see the gains in the cost of using them. Regardless of the use of either, the issue is not the improvement of traffic flow or accidents it how we train drivers to use either intersection. If used correctly or the drives correctly accident in either case would be almost negligible.  

The intersection style isn't necessarily better in reduction of accidents in the design but in the training of the driver.

[Bombastinator]

49 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I am told so, but not by much, but neither I do not see the gains in the cost of using them. Regardless of the use of either, the issue is not the improvement of traffic flow or accidents it how we train drivers to use either intersection. If used correctly or the drives correctly accident in either case would be almost negligible.  

The intersection style isn't necessarily better in reduction of accidents in the design but in the training of the driver.

I’ve seen gains over stop signs.  They really are a lot faster, which means more throughput.  Remember cost isn’t just building the thing.  You’ve got to buy the area to build the thing too.  It’s a lot less area than a diamond interchange.  And it may already be bought with a stop sign intersection. So sometimes a lot cheaper.  Safety wise though I’m really unshure. Those things scare the hell out of me.  I so do not want to see them at every residential intersection where there is a 4way stop sign.  Maybe a third of them I could handle.  The really high traffic ones where there’s always a line of cars in both directions.  They’d also probably be better than lights on freeways a lot of the time, but not all of the time, it depends on how high traffic the cross street is.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I am told so, but not by much, but neither I do not see the gains in the cost of using them. Regardless of the use of either, the issue is not the improvement of traffic flow or accidents it how we train drivers to use either intersection. If used correctly or the drives correctly accident in either case would be almost negligible.  

The intersection style isn't necessarily better in reduction of accidents in the design but in the training of the driver.

I see gains.  They’re clearly a bunch faster than 4-way stops and they’re a lot physically smaller than diamond interchanges.  So small they could actually replace some 4-way stops without having to buy land.  I think they sort of sit between controlled intersections (lights) and diamond interchanges in some cases.  In some situations there may be a land ownership issue that prevents a diamond interchange from being put in even if it’s needed.  They do scare the hell out of me though.  I don’t like em.

[IPD]

The benefit of roundabouts is that you don't need any computer programming.  That's the KISS principle hard at work.  Rather than having to figure out the time for green in each direction, the time between green to red as the light changes, how long to allow the turn lanes to turn, how the timings should change over the course of the day, etc.....

 

Instead, you get a simple, passive measure that automatically regulates the flow of traffic without additional input (beyond, you know, teaching drivers how not to be fucking idiots).  Again, if you've ever waited at a stop-light more than 1 cycle to pass through the intersection, or sat at an empty intersection while the light was red--you have experience some of the reasons why roundabouts are better.

 

p.s.

And I don't buy the "more space" argument.  The USA has the most massive wastes of space you can imagine.  The #1 crop grown in the USA is lawn/turf grass.  In Europe they use the circles (larger ones) for public works, sculptures, shrubs, etc.  And some of the smaller ones are barely more than rumble-bumps in a conventional sized intersection--meaning that you're giving up 0 space anyways.

 

Additionally, if traffic is separated into residential streets and commercial roads--you don't end up with congestion or flow problems.  The USA's Stroads (combining the two into something with the worst characteristics of both), and then slapping a roundabout on top of it, will naturally create minimal benefit, because the pathways themselves are inherently flawed.

 

Diamond interchanges are a good solution for interstate highways and larger commercial roads.  Residential streets will always function best with roundabouts; both because the flow is slower and lesser--and because you don't want or need stoplights  (or fucking diamond interchanges) in residential neighborhoods.

[Bombastinator]

46 minutes ago, IPD said:

The benefit of roundabouts is that you don't need any computer programming.  That's the KISS principle hard at work.  Rather than having to figure out the time for green in each direction, the time between green to red as the light changes, how long to allow the turn lanes to turn, how the timings should change over the course of the day, etc.....

 

Instead, you get a simple, passive measure that automatically regulates the flow of traffic without additional input (beyond, you know, teaching drivers how not to be fucking idiots).  Again, if you've ever waited at a stop-light more than 1 cycle to pass through the intersection, or sat at an empty intersection while the light was red--you have experience some of the reasons why roundabouts are better.

 

p.s.

And I don't buy the "more space" argument.  The USA has the most massive wastes of space you can imagine.  The #1 crop grown in the USA is lawn/turf grass.  In Europe they use the circles (larger ones) for public works, sculptures, shrubs, etc.  And some of the smaller ones are barely more than rumble-bumps in a conventional sized intersection--meaning that you're giving up 0 space anyways.

 

Additionally, if traffic is separated into residential streets and commercial roads--you don't end up with congestion or flow problems.  The USA's Stroads (combining the two into something with the worst characteristics of both), and then slapping a roundabout on top of it, will naturally create minimal benefit, because the pathways themselves are inherently flawed.

 

Diamond interchanges are a good solution for interstate highways and larger commercial roads.  Residential streets will always function best with roundabouts; both because the flow is slower and lesser--and because you don't want or need stoplights  (or fucking diamond interchanges) in residential neighborhoods.

I represent that remark.

[Bitter]

9 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

I am told so, but not by much, but neither I do not see the gains in the cost of using them. Regardless of the use of either, the issue is not the improvement of traffic flow or accidents it how we train drivers to use either intersection. If used correctly or the drives correctly accident in either case would be almost negligible.  

The intersection style isn't necessarily better in reduction of accidents in the design but in the training of the driver.

https://www.iihs.org/topics/roundabouts

My town replaced a staggered double 3 way stop with angled entry with a 4 way circle and it's so so much better. It takes up the same amount of space but walking and driving through is much safer because each entry yeilds where as the old double intersection had a very confusing set of opposing yeild and stop signs. Only downside I've seen is that trucks which are banned from the town roads sometimes go through but I guess better through than before they'd just get stuck or drive over people's lawns to get around. 

25792 S Egyptian Trail https://maps.app.goo.gl/JNqHKZtjtETASJ7G6

Satellite view still shows construction, but you can kind of make out how the old double 3 way thing was laid out. Street view shows what we have now. It's definitely an improvement and didn't require the realignment of an entire street to do it which was a huge reason it was chosen over a 4 way. 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

The benefit of roundabouts is that you don't need any computer programming.  That's the KISS principle hard at work.  Rather than having to figure out the time for green in each direction, the time between green to red as the light changes, how long to allow the turn lanes to turn, how the timings should change over the course of the day, etc.....

 

Instead, you get a simple, passive measure that automatically regulates the flow of traffic without additional input (beyond, you know, teaching drivers how not to be fucking idiots).  Again, if you've ever waited at a stop-light more than 1 cycle to pass through the intersection, or sat at an empty intersection while the light was red--you have experience some of the reasons why roundabouts are better.

 

p.s.

And I don't buy the "more space" argument.  The USA has the most massive wastes of space you can imagine.  The #1 crop grown in the USA is lawn/turf grass.  In Europe they use the circles (larger ones) for public works, sculptures, shrubs, etc.  And some of the smaller ones are barely more than rumble-bumps in a conventional sized intersection--meaning that you're giving up 0 space anyways.

 

Additionally, if traffic is separated into residential streets and commercial roads--you don't end up with congestion or flow problems.  The USA's Stroads (combining the two into something with the worst characteristics of both), and then slapping a roundabout on top of it, will naturally create minimal benefit, because the pathways themselves are inherently flawed.

 

Diamond interchanges are a good solution for interstate highways and larger commercial roads.  Residential streets will always function best with roundabouts; both because the flow is slower and lesser--and because you don't want or need stoplights  (or fucking diamond interchanges) in residential neighborhoods.

Electricity for lights isn’t that big a deal anymore.  LEDs use a lot less power and solar panels have gotten better.  You could power a light set no problem without connection to a grid. So while it may have been their big advantage I’m not sure it still is.  I consider their advantage speed and throughput vs 4-way stops and footprint.

[Bombastinator]

Ugh.  Double post sort of it seems.  I swear the first one wasn’t visible when I made the second and I thought it had been lost due to my error.

[Quackers101]

always been a bit annoyed with paint, or rather how paint and coating is so mixed up or not explained fully.

So one paint might be with a coating, one is just coating and one is just paint. Some having more steps and layers than others.

then also depending on the material and what you use on it. Then you also need to know which paint is any good, a bit like trying to find the "perfect" monitor.

 

paint/coating and rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-7EO3odMg

Edited October 4, 2022 by Quackers101

[IPD]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Electricity for lights isn’t that big a deal anymore.  LEDs use a lot less power and solar panels have gotten better.  You could power a light set no problem without connection to a grid. So while it may have been their big advantage I’m not sure it still is.  I consider their advantage speed and throughput vs 4-way stops and footprint.

Agreed.  Not an electrical consumption problem.  It's a problem of keeping the flow of traffic optimized under all circumstances at all times of day/night. 

[Quackers101]

not sure if its worth it, but why don't common download pages give any info about the content you download? And how we have gone away from that.

1. the size of file

2. second download

3. download history/library

4. age/dato for the download file?? AAAAaaaaaa

[IPD]

15 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

not sure if its worth it, but why don't common download pages give any info about the content you download? And how we have gone away from that.

1. the size of file

2. second download

3. download history/library

4. age/dato for the download file?? AAAAaaaaaa

I use VideoDownloadHelper plug-in.

[Bitter]

1 hour ago, IPD said:

Agreed.  Not an electrical consumption problem.  It's a problem of keeping the flow of traffic optimized under all circumstances at all times of day/night. 

I think circles win there too since it's a constant feed of traffic more than a 4 way stop or lighted intersection. Also coming to a complete stop and starting again wastes more energy than slowing and resuming speed. 

[Bombastinator]

26 minutes ago, Bitter said:

I think circles win there too since it's a constant feed of traffic more than a 4 way stop or lighted intersection. Also coming to a complete stop and starting again wastes more energy than slowing and resuming speed. 

This imho is their primary advantage over controlled intersections. There is a cost in hecticness of course.  I would also say that they need to be lit really well at night.  The one I screwed up I didn’t even know was there till I hit the curb on the center berm.  Thing had one lone street lamp that didn’t even light the berm let alone the road.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Bitter]

41 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

This imho is their primary advantage over controlled intersections. There is a cost in hecticness of course.  I would also say that they need to be lit really well at night.  The one I screwed up I didn’t even know was there till I hit the curb on the center berm.  Thing had one lone street lamp that didn’t even light the berm let alone the road.

You drive without headlights?

[Bombastinator]

16 minutes ago, Bitter said:

You drive without headlights?

No.  It was dark though and the headlights aren’t amazing.  My point is that mere headlights aren’t enough I suspect.

[IPD]

Well not only should roads be illuminated at night, we need to switch over to 6000k LED bulbs ASAP.  Cooler temp bulbs (as opposed to the 1700k or so of LPS) actually help with alertness and keeping drivers from falling asleep.  Granted, this isn't a sure-fire solution (why would it be)?  But it will cut down on the issue some.  And it provides better overall visibility of details at night--improving driver's reaction ability.

[Bitter]

54 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

No.  It was dark though and the headlights aren’t amazing.  My point is that mere headlights aren’t enough I suspect.

You need to slow down if you can't see ahead far enough at night to avoid things in time. Look at some time distance figures and reaction time statistics and determine what speed you should be driving.

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, Bitter said:

You drive without headlights?

some headlights suck, and also since you turn, it can be pitch black on the sides.

Another issue too, side mirrors and how some modern cars have useless mirrors to a point where it becomes dangerous to drive.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Quackers101