I've never seen ANYTHING like this before...

[xnamkcor]

12 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

The systems, societies, we build have to run in the machine code of our stone age brain.  A brain for which anyone different was at least suspect.   Let's just say the guy who created Temple OS was running the C++ of American culture on his own buggy compiler and his faulty biological CPU also known as his brain.

You see. The macaroni represents the suffering of horses. And the cheese represents the fallacy of land ownership. And that's why Mac&Cheese the the best literal example of farming(but only in America for some reason).

[caincha]

And I thought MorphOS was hard to use 

 

BTW: you should own your baldness Anthony lol

[Emily Young]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:03 AM, Uttamattamakin said:

Clearly LTT are not endorsing his opinions.  As interesting technology they covered it well.  However, if they had noted that as the creator of it lost his filter his prejudiced beliefs came out.   That might have been nice.  As a Black American that would've made me and those like me watch more.

 

 Avoiding mention of racism is not done for the benefit of the group oppressed, but for the comfort of the group that, at least in the past, did the oppressing.   In other words, had the addressed it far too many people in the audience would've stopped watching. 

To be clear, highlighting this exact point is why I chose his rant calling people N-words when describing his "controversial" language. I didn't want to explicitly say "yeah the guy was a big racist" because I don't know that he was before his descent into the depths of schizophrenia, and I wanted to move past talking about him and his failings (as I felt Down the Rabbit Hole did a far better job of that than we could) and on to talking about the operating system and his rationale behind it.

 

It may have been too subtle? If you need to hear a condemnation, then absolutely: The views he held on race, and the language he used (quite freely) are absolutely repugnant. I believe Linus' views on race are by now well-documented, and for the record, there is little I have less patience for than displays of racism. AFAIK everybody's internal monologue is a bit racist, but for me it's realizing it and what you do with it that counts. Acknowledging a bias is the first step towards fixing it.

[xnamkcor]

1 hour ago, GabenJr said:

To be clear, highlighting this exact point is why I chose his rant calling people N-words when describing his "controversial" language. I didn't want to explicitly say "yeah the guy was a big racist" because I don't know that he was before his descent into the depths of schizophrenia, and I wanted to move past talking about him and his failings (as I felt Down the Rabbit Hole did a far better job of that than we could) and on to talking about the operating system and his rationale behind it.

 

It may have been too subtle? If you need to hear a condemnation, then absolutely: The views he held on race, and the language he used (quite freely) are absolutely repugnant. I believe Linus' views on race are by now well-documented, and for the record, there is little I have less patience for than displays of racism. AFAIK everybody's internal monologue is a bit racist, but for me it's realizing it and what you do with it that counts. Acknowledging a bias is the first step towards fixing it.

If a person suffers from mental illness and expresses certain opinions, is that person actually that sort of person? Are they completely detached from those opinions because it is an illness? Are those opinions their "real opinions" and the "illness" just makes them forget not to say them out loud for the sake of other people? Do we leave them alone and pity them? Do we take it as an opportunity to attack or denounce them?

[Uttamattamakin]

3 hours ago, GabenJr said:

To be clear, highlighting this exact point is why I chose his rant calling people N-words when describing his "controversial" language. I didn't want to explicitly say "yeah the guy was a big racist" because I don't know that he was before his descent into the depths of schizophrenia, and I wanted to move past talking about him and his failings (as I felt Down the Rabbit Hole did a far better job of that than we could) and on to talking about the operating system and his rationale behind it.

 

It may have been too subtle? If you need to hear a condemnation, then absolutely: The views he held on race, and the language he used (quite freely) are absolutely repugnant. I believe Linus' views on race are by now well-documented, and for the record, there is little I have less patience for than displays of racism. 

Yes overt condemnations of overt racism are needed.     Current events have made it clear "colorblindness" is not enough to counter hundreds of years of anti-blackness.  

 

3 hours ago, GabenJr said:

AFAIK everybody's internal monologue is a bit racist, but for me it's realizing it and what you do with it that counts. Acknowledging a bias is the first step towards fixing it.

Racism is and always was truly a systematic (legal / de jure) and systemic (defacto by culture and convention) situation.  It was designed to justify the dehumanization of one group which varied from place to place and time to time (in the Americas it meant African Americans, American Indians, and Jewish people.)  In our continent religion was subordinated to that.   

 

In that sense he wasn't a racist because racism isn't an individual thing.  At the same time we can be certain.. unless the man was a saint who transcended hundreds of years of cultural programming ... he had racially biased beliefs which in his mind dovetailed with his religious beliefs which informed how he constructed the OS. 

 

As a technology story you did quite well.  For an organization of LTT's nature one could not ask for more.
 

Instead of "yeah the guy was a big racist"

Something like "This guy posted racist rants which he used his belief system to justify.*  The same beliefs that motivated him to write the OS."

 

*Which is a sort of diplomatic way of just saying the person who posted N word filled rants was racist.  Frankly why be afraid of offending people who believe what he did?  Screw em!  LOL.   
 

1 hour ago, xnamkcor said:

If a person suffers from mental illness and expresses certain opinions, is that person actually that sort of person? Are they completely detached from those opinions because it is an illness? Are those opinions their "real opinions" and the "illness" just makes them forget not to say them out loud for the sake of other people? Do we leave them alone and pity them? Do we take it as an opportunity to attack or denounce them?

A mental illness can't create in a person that which is not in there somewhere.  A whole belief system based on the idea that their race was chosen by God is a complicated thing to randomly come up with.    It would be like someone going crazy... and waking up knowing Quantum Field Theory and General Relativity or something.  

 

Just to make it clear using the Nword wasn't just something he used online he used it as if it was just what Black people are called WARNING IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE DON'T GO THERE> . 

Just to lighten things up.  This is not an easy thing LTT took on with this video.  Kinda like writing a funny song about Werhner Von Braun's history.  Yeah he made breakthroughs in rocketry, founded NASA....but did his work as a member of the SS. 

 

  Don't worry you guys did ok.  Not everyone can take this on like in the above. 

[xnamkcor]

As much as I love attacking deceased mentally challenged people, I'm gonna have to sit this one out.

[TheGambia]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:03 AM, Uttamattamakin said:

The particular wording of the King James translation, along with a focus on the new testament, woven DEEP into that OS, was used to justify slavery.  https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Slavery/

The OS itself had nothing to do with justifying slavery. You could certainly cherry-pick such examples if you look "DEEP into that OS", based on bible verses about slavery. What you fail to understand is that the King James translation is not solely about slavery, and that this has nothing to do with the creator of the operating system making absurd statements. If you looked at what Terry Davis actually said, he was hurling the word "nigger" at pretty much everything, without any meaning to his statements.

On 7/18/2020 at 1:03 AM, Uttamattamakin said:

Then there is the history of the guy who created it.  Part of conservative, Baptist/ born again beliefs is that Black people are inherently inferior. (https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/White-Too-Long/Robert-P-Jones/9781982122867)  As that book details.

Clearly LTT are not endorsing his opinions.  As interesting technology they covered it well.  However, if they had noted that as the creator of it lost his filter his prejudiced beliefs came out.   That might have been nice.  As a Black American that would've made me and those like me watch more.

Also saying that "black people are inferior" is a conservative belief seems very convenient to do argumentatively when that is simply not the case. Terry Davis was too focused on his operating system and live streaming to 4chan to care about politics. This also seems to be the main premise of the video; his technology not his beliefs. I honestly don't see what is wrong with a tech channel only talking about the guy's operating system. They already acknowledged that he had "mental difficulties" and that his speech was incongruous.

On 7/18/2020 at 1:03 AM, Uttamattamakin said:

 Avoiding mention of racism is not done for the benefit of the group oppressed, but for the comfort of the group that, at least in the past, did the oppressing.   In other words, had the addressed it far too many people in the audience would've stopped watching.

The claim that every white person has had ancestors involved with "oppression" is also inherently false, and you can't use that as a justification for why LTT decided to keep this out of the video. LTT doesn't belong to a sort of white conspiracy theory group or whatever you're thinking of. The lack of a mention of such had nothing to do with "comfort of the evil oppressors", but rather had to do with the fact that Davis' background was already covered in-depth by other videos. This one's purpose was just to take a look at his operating system. You're right that people would stop watching, but unfortunately for the wrong reasons.

[Uttamattamakin]

2 hours ago, TheGambia said:

The OS itself had nothing to do with justifying slavery. You could certainly cherry-pick such examples if you look "DEEP into that OS", based on bible verses about slavery.

I am not going to argue the historical fact that "old time American Protestant" belifes were coopted to justify Black slavery.  The creator of Temple OS embraced such belifes, and held, and demonstrated them.  He was as anti Black as the supposedly Crazy Rudolph Hess was an anti semite.  

Iinstead here is a reading list. 

 

https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BXDSQ2H/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/30/896712611/american-christianity-must-reckon-with-legacy-of-white-supremacy-author-says

 

 

Privilege is the ability to say "lets put aside an existential threat to this group I am not a part of and just look at the software".  Privilege is being able to reasonably think it is unreasonable when those people won't simply be silent.  Privilege is not the idea that being a White person means you have money, or get free Parking or something... it is simply that for some people this is a small thing.  

Temple OS is interesting software.  But the fact it has so much Bible built into it means it takes on to itself the same baggage as the bible.  

As a fun mental exercise... could someone write up an .... "Das Kapital" OS or "Quran OS"  or "Name of certain German Leaders book here " OS?  "Mao's Little red book OS"..

Just think of it that way.  

[tornadoman6253]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:29 PM, xnamkcor said:

If a person suffers from mental illness and expresses certain opinions, is that person actually that sort of person? Are they completely detached from those opinions because it is an illness? Are those opinions their "real opinions" and the "illness" just makes them forget not to say them out loud for the sake of other people? Do we leave them alone and pity them? Do we take it as an opportunity to attack or denounce them?

This is a very complicated issue. In the end, racism is beliving a certain race is inferiour. The fact of the matter is that in a natural state, a colored individual is just as capable as a white person. When I say natural state I simply mean without any systems in place that could oppress either person. What makes racism evil is that their is no reasonable logic that you can use to justify a stance of a race being inferior, therefore, that assumption must come from somewere else. Wether it be a relgious individuals interpretation of their scripture, or narcissism. Now when we bring in severe mental illness, it changes a bit. In Terry's case, schizophrenia. Schizophrenia often causes people to see and feel outrageous things with no basis in reality; but this isnt neccesarly their fault. Often times people that suffer from schizophrenia belive that a certain group is out to get them.(For example, Terry was CONVINCED the CIA was making constant efforts to kill or torment him.) Its possible the same thing could have happend with people of color to him. This would be absolutely ridiculous for any person to come up with through rational thought. That's what makes racism evil, people of color or NOT inferior. Beliving they are, and contributing to oppressing them are evil and deplorable acts. That being said, through no fault of his own, Terry's brain was wired differently than most peoples. This made Terry capable of some amazing things(such as building an OS from the ground up) but it also caused his brain to have a false interpretation of reality, or in some cases compelty make up it's own reality. Just like white privilege is being able to say that people of colors outcries at our systems are ridiculous because society works for you; Saying that Terry should be able to see that his beliefs are compelty incorrect comes from a place of privlege. That privilege being that most of us have a somewhat clear grip on reality, and dont have our brain compelty fabricating experiences that contribute to our understanding of somone or something different than ourselves. 

 

The slurs Terry used, and the hate towards others should be denounced, but we also need to acknowledge that this dosent represent Terry at his core. And we definitly need to acknowledge the achievements of Terry's life. 

 

Just as an oppressed person pushing through all the systemic oppression holding them back, and making huge achievements is something to be praised; So should Terry pushing through the oppression of his own brain, and managing to accomplish such a feat be.

[mightysashiman]

Guys, have anyone managed to install TempleOS in Parallels Desktop ? If so, what settings should be used to set up the VM ?