Upgrading my sound setup

[nukem]

Hey guys, my Logitech X640's have done me well for about 8 years but now i have a bit of money i would like to get something newer and better.

 

Im not an Audiophile in the slightest, but i think i would rather a nice clean 2.0 setup rather than surround sound so ive been looking at the Audioengine A5+ bookshelf style speakers, my friend has the 2+ models and they sound quite good but i like the listen to my music quite loud and also would be using them to watch movies on so i thought the 5+'s look like a good choice.

 

Are there any other 2.0 systems in that price range that are worth looking at? (400-500AUD)

 

also im not sure if it is worth buying a DAC to connect the speakers to my PC such as the D1 or Filo E17.

 

Suggestions welcome!

 

also keep in mind i live in Australia so they have to be able to be purchased here or shipped for a non ridiculous price!

[Lauen]

Hey guys, my Logitech X640's have done me well for about 8 years but now i have a bit of money i would like to get something newer and better.

 

Im not an Audiophile in the slightest, but i think i would rather a nice clean 2.0 setup rather than surround sound so ive been looking at the Audioengine A5+ bookshelf style speakers, my friend has the 2+ models and they sound quite good but i like the listen to my music quite loud and also would be using them to watch movies on so i thought the 5+'s look like a good choice.

 

Are there any other 2.0 systems in that price range that are worth looking at? (400-500AUD)

 

also im not sure if it is worth buying a DAC to connect the speakers to my PC such as the D1 or Filo E17.

 

Suggestions welcome!

 

also keep in mind i live in Australia so they have to be able to be purchased here or shipped for a non ridiculous price!

only thing I can tell you right now is that most speakers (those that aren't shit, that is) sound very alike, as far as I know. and also, you won't need a DAC for them, they're not detailed enough to benefit from it.

 

Personally, I'd go for some used bookshelf speakers and a separate amp, because then you can upgrade one of them later on. I'm not up to date on speakers though, but a Lepai amp is nice, like this. http://www.amazon.com/LP-2020A-Lepai-Tripath-Class-T-Amplifier/dp/B0049P6OTI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393187491&sr=8-2&keywords=lepai+amp

[MuffinTopMike]

Audio Engine A5+ are fantastic speakers and they are really well made as well. For DAC you should definitely get an Audio Engine D1, I have one and it is amazing and its not that expensive either.

[EmoRarity]

only thing I can tell you right now is that most speakers (those that aren't shit, that is) sound very alike, as far as I know. and also, you won't need a DAC for them, they're not detailed enough to benefit from it.

 

Personally, I'd go for some used bookshelf speakers and a separate amp, because then you can upgrade one of them later on. I'm not up to date on speakers though, but a Lepai amp is nice, like this. http://www.amazon.com/LP-2020A-Lepai-Tripath-Class-T-Amplifier/dp/B0049P6OTI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393187491&sr=8-2&keywords=lepai+amp

He was looking at the A5+'s which are pretty solid for the price. 

Swan also makes great speakers. 

 

Audio Engine A5+ are fantastic speakers and they are really well made as well. For DAC you should definitely get an Audio Engine D1, I have one and it is amazing and its not that expensive either.

You really don't need a dac or amp for a pair of speakers, as they have their own amp, and dacs don't effect quality. 

[Aelrikom]

I have the A5+s and I love them.  I did find them lacking a bit on the low range so I picked up the S8 sub later and they were perfect together.  I doubt you need a DAC for them but I ran them through my STX.

[MuffinTopMike]

 

 

You really don't need a dac or amp for a pair of speakers, as they have their own amp, and dacs don't effect quality. 

He doesn't need an amp but no point getting $300-400 speakers and then not buying a DAC. When I got my D1 I immediately noticed a huge difference in sound quality, when you are buying speakers that expensive you can't just use the on-board audio because that's just creating a bottleneck. 

[ShearMe]

He doesn't need an amp but no point getting $300-400 speakers and then not buying a DAC. When I got my D1 I immediately noticed a huge difference in sound quality, when you are buying speakers that expensive you can't just use the on-board audio because that's just creating a bottleneck. 

 

Uh, no, bottlenecks don't happen in audio. 

 

There may be audible benefits from some dedicated DACs over some onboard, but it's not universally true that a dedicated DAC will improve audio quality.

[nukem]

ok thanks for the info, i might just get the speakers first and see how they sound before thinking about a dac.

[MuffinTopMike]

Uh, no, bottlenecks don't happen in audio. 

 

There may be audible benefits from some dedicated DACs over some onboard, but it's not universally true that a dedicated DAC will improve audio quality.

Well a DAC will completely change the sound signature and will unleash a much more finely tuned sound. Bottleneck is the wrong word but the Audio Engine D1 and  the Audio Engine A5+ were pretty much designed to work together. 

[EmoRarity]

Well a DAC will completely change the sound signature and will unleash a much more finely tuned sound. Bottleneck is the wrong word but the Audio Engine D1 and  the Audio Engine A5+ were pretty much designed to work together. 

No...no it won't, thats not what dacs do.

[EmoRarity]

ok thanks for the info, i might just get the speakers first and see how they sound before thinking about a dac.

You really won't need a dac unless you computer is pre 2005. 

[Sors]

Well a DAC will completely change the sound signature and will unleash a much more finely tuned sound.

 

Seriously, who told you that ?

[ShearMe]

Seriously, who told you that ?

 

Probably Head-Fi

 

Bottleneck is the wrong word but the Audio Engine D1 and  the Audio Engine A5+ were pretty much designed to work together. 

 

A DAC designed to output analog signals, and a powered monitor designed to make audible noise from said signals? How innovative.

 

 

Dedicated DACs have instances where they are necessary, but it's silly to proclaim them as the best thing since sliced bread. I'm glad you're happy with your D1. Enjoy it. Just don't fool yourself into thinking it's some huge improvement over most of the recent onboard solutions.

[MuffinTopMike]

@Sors @EmoRarity @ShearMe

 

Sorry if you are not understanding me but you are kinda misinterpreting my posts. A DAC will better reproduce audio then on-board but it won't technically improve the sound quality. If you actually want to change audio quality then you get music with higher bit rates, but if you want to more accurately reproduce the sound then you use a DAC like I do. 

[EmoRarity]

@Sors @EmoRarity @ShearMe

 

Sorry if you are not understanding me but you are kinda misinterpreting my posts. A DAC will better reproduce audio then on-board but it won't technically improve the sound quality. If you actually want to change audio quality then you get music with higher bit rates, but if you want to more accurately reproduce the sound then you use a DAC like I do. 

You aren't listening to our posts, a dac, while necessary, DOES NOT CHANGE QUALITY OR PERFORMANCE.

Music is hardly ever originally encoded in anything above 48/16, and most every dac can decode up to 92/24 anyway, so both of those claims are irrelevant. Bitrates above 320 are not measurably better, and technically 320 isn't better then 256.

[Sors]

@Sors @EmoRarity @ShearMe

 

Sorry if you are not understanding me but you are kinda misinterpreting my posts. A DAC will better reproduce audio then on-board but it won't technically improve the sound quality. If you actually want to change audio quality then you get music with higher bit rates, but if you want to more accurately reproduce the sound then you use a DAC like I do. 

 

As far as your ears could differentiate, your DAC and the DAC integrated in the sound solution of most modern motherboards produce exactly the same sound.

 

You may hear a difference because of the AMP that you are using after the DAC. But the DAC signal itself, is pretty much the same in both.

[creatip123]

As far as your ears could differentiate, your DAC and the DAC integrated in the sound solution of most modern motherboards produce exactly the same sound.

 

You may hear a difference because of the AMP that you are using after the DAC. But the DAC signal itself, is pretty much the same in both.

 

Sorry if this is out of topic, but after reading this thread (and other threads), I have the assumption that:

 

- Sound card is better if going for gaming and/or watching movies, where multi-channels output is essential (for positional or surround), taking advantage of the sound chip to process multi-channels

- External DAC is better if going for stereo sound quality like listening musics (or maybe playing games in stereo). Unless after processed by the external DAC, the output is then processed again by a separate surround DSP with multi-channels output, that is

 

Is that the case?

[ShearMe]

 

Sorry if you are not understanding me but you are kinda misinterpreting my posts. A DAC will better reproduce audio then on-board but it won't technically improve the sound quality. 

 

 

Aint misinterpreting anything - how well a DAC reproduces audio is THE determining factor of sound quality. 

 

 

Sorry if this is out of topic, but after reading this thread (and other threads), I have the assumption that:

 

- Sound card is better if going for gaming and/or watching movies, where multi-channels output is essential (for positional or surround), taking advantage of the sound chip to process multi-channels

- External DAC is better if going for stereo sound quality like listening musics (or maybe playing games in stereo). Unless after processed by the external DAC, the output is then processed again by a separate surround DSP with multi-channels output, that is

 

Is that the case?

 

Not exactly.

- Soundcards aren't any better at multi-channel audio than onboard. Most soundcards nowadays have a unique virtual surround sound effect, but that's NOT created on any special hardware located on the soundcard. Whether any particular person enjoys a certain virtual surround effect more than another, or more than the "default" headphone setting in a game is a matter of preference, so you can't just throw a blanket statement over the topic.

- Better than what? A DAC is a DAC is a DAC. The only differences are how high their sampling rate goes, their bit depth, and the number of channels they can decode simultaneously. Like Mr. Rarity said, however, there's little point to chips with specs above 48 kHz / 16 bits.

 

You're correct in that stereo is better for music, because most music isn't mixed in surround sound anyways. There's certain technologies that'll break up a stereo music signal quite nicely for surround sound, but those are only implemented on AVRs mostly.

[MuffinTopMike]

As far as your ears could differentiate, your DAC and the DAC integrated in the sound solution of most modern motherboards produce exactly the same sound.

 

You may hear a difference because of the AMP that you are using after the DAC. But the DAC signal itself, is pretty much the same in both.

Well what your saying is that an external USB DAC like the Audio Engine D1 is exactly the same as the DAC on your motherboard. The DAC chip on the motherboard is no where near as high quality as the one used in external or audiophile grade DAC's.

 

 

 

 

 

Aint misinterpreting anything - how well a DAC reproduces audio is THE determining factor of sound quality. 

 

Well we are going around in circles here because this is how this whole debate started Rarity said that DACs don't effect sound quality as they do not technically improve the quality of the source audio, whereas you are saying that audio reproduction is the determining factor in sound quality.

[ShearMe]

 

Well what your saying is that an external USB DAC like the Audio Engine D1 is exactly the same as the DAC on your motherboard. The DAC chip on the motherboard is no where near as high quality as the one used in external or audiophile grade DAC's.

 

Well we are going around in circles here because this is how this whole debate started Rarity said that DACs don't effect sound quality as they do not technically improve the quality of the source audio, whereas you are saying that audio reproduction is the determining factor in sound quality.

 

Mr. Rarity are saying the same thing - a cheap DAC chip reproduces just as good as an expensive DAC chip. I'd like to see you prove otherwise, because we've seen enough numbers to determine there's next to no audible difference.

[MuffinTopMike]

Mr. Rarity are saying the same thing - a cheap DAC chip reproduces just as good as an expensive DAC chip. 

 

 

I'd like to see you prove that, because we've seen the opposite proven.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion but from what I have heard personally and what I have heard from many other respectable Youtubers and many of my friends who are audio engineers is that there is a notable difference in sound. I'm not sure if you have ever used a DAC and if you have did you not hear a difference at all?

[ShearMe]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion but from what I have heard personally and what I have heard from many other respectable Youtubers and many of my friends who are audio engineers is that there is a notable difference in sound. I'm not sure if you have ever used a DAC and if you have did you not hear a difference at all?

 

I have owned a Little Dot DAC_1 which output to a Little Dot MK IV SE Tube Amp. I purchased the amp first, using it with my onboard audio (Maximus V Gene) for a few months. The only difference was the breaking of a ground loop between the PC and amp when optical was used on the DAC.

 

You should read this: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

[creatip123]

 

 

 

 

Aint misinterpreting anything - how well a DAC reproduces audio is THE determining factor of sound quality. 

 

 

 

Not exactly.

- Soundcards aren't any better at multi-channel audio than onboard. Most soundcards nowadays have a unique virtual surround sound effect, but that's NOT created on any special hardware located on the soundcard. Whether any particular person enjoys a certain virtual surround effect more than another, or more than the "default" headphone setting in a game is a matter of preference, so you can't just throw a blanket statement over the topic.

- Better than what? A DAC is a DAC is a DAC. The only differences are how high their sampling rate goes, their bit depth, and the number of channels they can decode simultaneously. Like Mr. Rarity said, however, there's little point to chips with specs above 48 kHz / 16 bits.

 

You're correct in that stereo is better for music, because most music isn't mixed in surround sound anyways. There's certain technologies that'll break up a stereo music signal quite nicely for surround sound, but those are only implemented on AVRs mostly.

 

 

When I said 'soundcards', onboard audio is included I mean. Perhaps my term was mixed up though. Maybe it should have been 'internal DAC'

 

About the external DAC, I was referring to mayflower's youtube video, where he said that soundcards (and maybe onboard audios?) will pick up electrical interference to some extent from the PC's inside, so it's better to extract the raw audio data and process the DAC externally, providing much cleaner analog audio signals.

 

But I understand, it's actually a case of 'what works best for me', no absolute 'do and don't'

[ShearMe]

But I understand, it's actually a case of 'what works best for me', no absolute 'do and don't'

 

Woah, someone gets it! 

[EmoRarity]

Mr. Rarity are saying the same thing - a cheap DAC chip reproduces just as good as an expensive DAC chip. I'd like to see you prove otherwise, because we've seen enough numbers to determine there's next to no audible difference.

What are I doing now?