Does RTX worth make it getting a 2070S or Should I get a 5700XT?

[Viddiecent]

So as the title above i'm torn between the 5700 XT and the 2070 Super,

Regardless i'm planning on water cooling as my PC is setup for it and why not right?

 

Currently running a GTX 970.

 

My question is the RTX experience and the Nvidia Features on the 2070s worth choosing over the 5700 XT?

I'm From NZ so the Price difference is a little more exaggerated considering the cheapest 5700 XT is MSI's Reference designed at $749

and the Cheapest 2070S is the Asus 2070S super Evo at $979 which is pretty hard to swallow considering the most expensive 5700XT is the

ASUS ROG Strix Radeon RX 5700 XT OC at $949

 

Anyway its mostly for gaming at 1080p for now with the prospect of upgrading to a 1440p Ultrawide in the future and also media consumption also "probably" 4K on my TV.

 

Lemme know what you think

 

Cheers,

[Taf the Ghost]

Gen 1 RTX has a few games where it works, but it's a basically a tech demo. Both AMD's upcoming RT implementation and Nvidia's 2nd Gen should be significantly faster. Mostly because Gen 1 RTX actually internally bottlenecks itself, which is the reason for the poor performance even when nothing is being raytraced.

 

Weirdly, DLSS probably is more useful long term with the 2070S, since developers have been bringing over reconstruction techniques and able to work those within the framework. Ray Tracing tech will matter a lot more in about 3 years, at which point we should be 2 more GPU generations from where we are now.

 

The 2070S is a little faster than the 5700 XT, but it's also more expensive. Might want to think if there's any other creature features between the two that you might want, to decide between them.

[Viddiecent]

5 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Gen 1 RTX has a few games where it works, but it's a basically a tech demo. Both AMD's upcoming RT implementation and Nvidia's 2nd Gen should be significantly faster. Mostly because Gen 1 RTX actually internally bottlenecks itself, which is the reason for the poor performance even when nothing is being raytraced.

 

Weirdly, DLSS probably is more useful long term with the 2070S, since developers have been bringing over reconstruction techniques and able to work those within the framework. Ray Tracing tech will matter a lot more in about 3 years, at which point we should be 2 more GPU generations from where we are now.

 

The 2070S is a little faster than the 5700 XT, but it's also more expensive. Might want to think if there's any other creature features between the two that you might want, to decide between them.

Thanks for the Reply  

Yeah I did wonder that. yeah as much as hair works looks great in Witcher and rtx and DLSS sounds great. probably gonna go with AMD on this one then, $250nzd is a bit steep.

 

Thanks for that  

 

 

[PriitM]

Gen 1 in any tech is usually like the first pancake: looks horrible but still edible. Any subsequent releases will have better looks, performance etc. 

 

Why people are buying RTX is in the secret hopes that the somewhat useless RT cores could be switch to generic compute unit roles, thus boosting performance without much penalty. 
AMD has two strong points: 7nm and Infinity Fabric. And price, but seeing how Nvidia dropped 2060 prices in the wake of 5500XT, not a big sellingpoint imho. 

Heres hopes that "Big Navi" RDNA2 and RTX3000 series will be the refined performers of their respective fields. Q3-4 of 2020 will show, I hope (so I can upgrade my R9 390X)

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Viddiecent said:

Thanks for the Reply  

Yeah I did wonder that. yeah as much as hair works looks great in Witcher and rtx and DLSS sounds great. probably gonna go with AMD on this one then, $250nzd is a bit steep.

 

Thanks for that  

 

 

Just make sure you have a fresh install of Windows 10. There's some weird issues with older win10 installs and installing a 5700 series card. (It's probably PCIe drivers, as no one can seem to recreate the downclocking issue in isolation.)

[Viddiecent]

6 hours ago, PriitM said:

Gen 1 in any tech is usually like the first pancake: looks horrible but still edible. Any subsequent releases will have better looks, performance etc. 

 

Why people are buying RTX is in the secret hopes that the somewhat useless RT cores could be switch to generic compute unit roles, thus boosting performance without much penalty. 
AMD has two strong points: 7nm and Infinity Fabric. And price, but seeing how Nvidia dropped 2060 prices in the wake of 5500XT, not a big sellingpoint imho. 

Heres hopes that "Big Navi" RDNA2 and RTX3000 series will be the refined performers of their respective fields. Q3-4 of 2020 will show, I hope (so I can upgrade my R9 390X)

Lets hope so AMD being competitive on 2 fronts is an exciting prospect! It'll be nice to see some quality come from Nvidia and Intel

 

6 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Just make sure you have a fresh install of Windows 10. There's some weird issues with older win10 installs and installing a 5700 series card. (It's probably PCIe drivers, as no one can seem to recreate the downclocking issue in isolation.)

Thanks for the Advice, man I love this forum

[SteveGrabowski0]

Ouch those prices look horrible, especially with some rumors of new Nvidia gpus in June. I'm tempted to buy a 2070S too to replace my 970 (RIP), but even at US prices ($500 for 2070S here) I'm probably not going to do it when 3070 might be a lot better for $500 in four and a half months. If I had a working 970 it would be a no-brainer to wait. Too bad Cyberpunk got delayed too, might have been worthwhile to see if there was anything interesting done with RT in it.

[Midnitewolf]

Overall I would say no.  From what I have seen the performance hit is so drastic that even a 2080 ti can struggle to hit 60 fps at 1080p if you max it out.  The reason to buy the 2070 Super is because Nvidia has better drivers and compatibility though you have to pay $100 extra for that.  Myself, I think I would go for the 5700XT just because you can't beat its price vs performance right now.

[SteveGrabowski0]

32 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

Overall I would say no.  From what I have seen the performance hit is so drastic that even a 2080 ti can struggle to hit 60 fps at 1080p if you max it out.  The reason to buy the 2070 Super is because Nvidia has better drivers and compatibility though you have to pay $100 extra for that.  Myself, I think I would go for the 5700XT just because you can't beat its price vs performance right now.

I was blown away seeing Control needs something like 720p DLSS to 1080p to get above 60 fps in Control on RX high with a 2070 Super in the benchmark Gamegpu.ru did. Though the 2060 Super managed to just squeak by too above 60 fps at those settings in their benchmark.

 

 

God look at it without the DLSS

 

[Gohardgrandpa]

Good lord that’s horrible without dlss. I’ll wait til ray tracing has been out a few gens and hopefully we get decent price/performance from nvidia or I’ll be sticking with this rx5700 for a while which I’m ok with 

[Taf the Ghost]

6 hours ago, Viddiecent said:

Lets hope so AMD being competitive on 2 fronts is an exciting prospect! It'll be nice to see some quality come from Nvidia and Intel

 

Thanks for the Advice, man I love this forum

The current bugaboo in the AMD camp is the 5700 downclocking issue, which really seems more like people aren't willing to RMA bad cards. Navi cards seem like the point of failure is the power delivery system, so we get diatribes about drivers when it's really "you got the 2% chance for a bad card, so RMA it; if the next one doesn't work, it's your system".

 

So, that's why I noted the fresh install bit. Also, Navi is the first PCIe 4.0 generation cards and there's always been problems with new PCIe generations. The forward compatible nature of PCIe is great in theory but practice has always been bad.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

I was blown away seeing Control needs something like 720p DLSS to 1080p to get above 60 fps in Control on RX high with a 2070 Super in the benchmark Gamegpu.ru did. Though the 2060 Super managed to just squeak by too above 60 fps at those settings in their benchmark.

 

 

 

God look at it without the DLSS

 

 

Control's DLSS system, which isn't actually "DLSS" but a really advanced reconstruction technique, makes the really awesome visuals work. But it took a while to get there. Control is the standout DXR game right now, but it's all going to look really different here very soon.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Gohardgrandpa said:

Good lord that’s horrible without dlss. I’ll wait til ray tracing has been out a few gens and hopefully we get decent price/performance from nvidia or I’ll be sticking with this rx5700 for a while which I’m ok with 

For the next few years, Raytracing will be simply an extra lighting engine. It's once the products are fully shifted to tech with baseline RT ability we'll start to see the real power of the technology. This is because the Textures & Models will be designed differently, both to take advantage of the new techniques and to streamline the process. Base-line designed RT models should actually be a lot faster to produce because you need to do so much less texture work. Though it's probably about 4 years before we really start to see the "Next Gen" look on games.

[Viddiecent]

12 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Ouch those prices look horrible, especially with some rumors of new Nvidia gpus in June. I'm tempted to buy a 2070S too to replace my 970 (RIP), but even at US prices ($500 for 2070S here) I'm probably not going to do it when 3070 might be a lot better for $500 in four and a half months. If I had a working 970 it would be a no-brainer to wait. Too bad Cyberpunk got delayed too, might have been worthwhile to see if there was anything interesting done with RT in it.

Yeah well when you live on one of the most remote area's in the world there's bound to be some setbacks. it's all relative though? I'm earning pretty good money for over here and I'm thinking about upgrading because im finding my GPU is starting to feel a little sluggish in some games. funny how the price is nearly double though huh? $500 vs $1k lol not even considering the Waterblock haha.

 

8 hours ago, Midnitewolf said:

Overall I would say no.  From what I have seen the performance hit is so drastic that even a 2080 ti can struggle to hit 60 fps at 1080p if you max it out.  The reason to buy the 2070 Super is because Nvidia has better drivers and compatibility though you have to pay $100 extra for that.  Myself, I think I would go for the 5700XT just because you can't beat its price vs performance right now.

Yeah I think I will tbh. seems like the best higher quality price to performance gpu out atm.

 

8 hours ago, Gohardgrandpa said:

Good lord that’s horrible without dlss. I’ll wait til ray tracing has been out a few gens and hopefully we get decent price/performance from nvidia or I’ll be sticking with this rx5700 for a while which I’m ok with 

Also my Plan  

6 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The current bugaboo in the AMD camp is the 5700 downclocking issue, which really seems more like people aren't willing to RMA bad cards. Navi cards seem like the point of failure is the power delivery system, so we get diatribes about drivers when it's really "you got the 2% chance for a bad card, so RMA it; if the next one doesn't work, it's your system".

 

So, that's why I noted the fresh install bit. Also, Navi is the first PCIe 4.0 generation cards and there's always been problems with new PCIe generations. The forward compatible nature of PCIe is great in theory but practice has always been bad.

 I think there's always going to be a few hiccups when moving to a new generation design. At least they aren't locking things down though I guess? in my industry there's 2 brands and neither of them have any compatibility and both have hugely advantageous Features that the other doesn't have. no industry standards so they end up with their own incompatible designs. 

 

6 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

For the next few years, Raytracing will be simply an extra lighting engine. It's once the products are fully shifted to tech with baseline RT ability we'll start to see the real power of the technology. This is because the Textures & Models will be designed differently, both to take advantage of the new techniques and to streamline the process. Base-line designed RT models should actually be a lot faster to produce because you need to do so much less texture work. Though it's probably about 4 years before we really start to see the "Next Gen" look on games.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how the industry shifts over the next few years. I get the funny feeling with the whole Sony, Xbox exclusives thing might really make PC gaming seem more appealing potentially? I mean things like Ray-tracing you might not get at all on the new consoles. who knows though, my crystal ball can't see that far into the future atm haha.

 

[Mister Woof]

2070s is a better card if you don't mind spending the extra ~$100-150 more.

 

5700XT Pros:

$100-150 cheaper

With ~4-6% of 2070s conventional performance

 

2070s Pros:

~4-6% faster than the 5700XT

RTX/DLSS

NVENC

Less hassle

 

[mr moose]

law of diminishing returns, yes the RTX card performs better and has a few extra (largely untapped) features right now, but is it personally worth the extra to you if you are looking at 1440 gaming?  I ask this because it seems that many of the RTX features will only be usable at 1080 and not really at higher resolutions (depending on the game.

[PriitM]

Northern EU: cheapest 5700 XT is the god horrible MSI MEKA (by Gamers Nexus tests) at €450 which translates to 768 hobbit dollars. 

 

I have a 4K monitor and R9 390X. I get decent 60fps on most modern titles. Some on 4K, some on 1440p. So, its not about the hardware, I think its about the drivers and optimized support. And RTX (Nvidia in general) has that. if you cant wait (well, upgrading from a 970) then go with an RTX card. If you CAN wait, then see what the second gen RTX/Navi brings. 

[dogwitch]

tbh atm i see zero interesting in buying a rtx card(mostly due to how  current ray tracing is done by them) but also 2 other things.

the rtx tax and the team green tax.
i am happy atm with my 580s(not in crossfire mode). they get the job use them for done,.

i been down the best gaming hardware stuff for over 20 years.  i learn it over price.

[Ebony Falcon]

Similar performance 

but 2070s supports free and g sync

dlss is not as bad as everyone makes out 

I played controll through with a 2080 with full raytracing and dlss and really enjoyed it 

let’s face it ray tracing is going to be the future

do you really wanna go another full upgrade cycle without any raytracing capabilities ? 
suposidly big navi will support it 

and ps5 and Xbox whatever is supporting it

so do you really think you can handle not wanting to dabble with it for another 2/3 years ? 

[Midnitewolf]

On 1/30/2020 at 2:15 AM, Mister Woof said:

2070s is a better card if you don't mind spending the extra ~$100-150 more.

 

5700XT Pros:

$100-150 cheaper

With ~4-6% of 2070s conventional performance

 

2070s Pros:

~4-6% faster than the 5700XT

RTX/DLSS

NVENC

Less hassle

 

This kind of depends.  There are game where the 5700XT comes out on top easily.  RDR2 for example seems to love the 5700XT and there are quite a few other games that prefer the AMD card as well.  However, it is kind of split something like 35% like the 5700XT better and 65% like the 2070 Super better which is why the composite score shows the 2070 Super out on top by 4-6% overall.  I guess the take away here is that when deciding which card is the better performer, you should probably look at the games you want to play before deciding.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, Midnitewolf said:

This kind of depends.  There are game where the 5700XT comes out on top easily.  RDR2 for example seems to love the 5700XT and there are quite a few other games that prefer the AMD card as well.  However, it is kind of split something like 35% like the 5700XT better and 65% like the 2070 Super better which is why the composite score shows the 2070 Super out on top by 4-6% overall.  I guess the take away here is that when deciding which card is the better performer, you should probably look at the games you want to play before deciding.

of course, it is generally speaking. 

 

featureset is important too.

 

I don't have any desire for RTX and no need for NVENC so I went with the cheaper 5700xt

[Viddiecent]

On 1/30/2020 at 9:16 PM, mr moose said:

law of diminishing returns, yes the RTX card performs better and has a few extra (largely untapped) features right now, but is it personally worth the extra to you if you are looking at 1440 gaming?  I ask this because it seems that many of the RTX features will only be usable at 1080 and not really at higher resolutions (depending on the game.

Atm moment no I'm only using a 1080p monitor and maybe my 4k tv with my xbox controller depending on the game (fallout 4, skyrim, farcry, etc) I am looking at an ultrawide just because I like the idea of having no bezels and having lots of real-estate for productivity and stuff but I'd also like to experience games that way too. I often play strategy's as well hoi4, CoH2 and a few other that I can see being alot more useful. 

 

19 hours ago, Ebony Falcon said:

Similar performance 

but 2070s supports free and g sync

dlss is not as bad as everyone makes out 

I played controll through with a 2080 with full raytracing and dlss and really enjoyed it 

let’s face it ray tracing is going to be the future

do you really wanna go another full upgrade cycle without any raytracing capabilities ? 
suposidly big navi will support it 

and ps5 and Xbox whatever is supporting it

so do you really think you can handle not wanting to dabble with it for another 2/3 years ? 

That is a good point. I guess it boils down to what experience I want and how much Im willing to pay.

Do I see Gsync, raytracing and DLSS being worth an extra $250NZD for those features.

Im still leaning more towards the Radeon atm. but your point is also valid.

 

3 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

of course, it is generally speaking. 

 

featureset is important too.

 

I don't have any desire for RTX and no need for NVENC so I went with the cheaper 5700xt

I think im with you on this one. i'll jump on RTX when it becomes more optimized and refined. but for now it looks like im joining team red

[Ebony Falcon]

1 minute ago, Viddiecent said:

Atm moment no I'm only using a 1080p monitor and maybe my 4k tv with my xbox controller depending on the game (fallout 4, skyrim, farcry, etc) I am looking at an ultrawide just because I like the idea of having no bezels and having lots of real-estate for productivity and stuff but I'd also like to experience games that way too. I often play strategy's as well hoi4, CoH2 and a few other that I can see being alot more useful. 

 

That is a good point. I guess it boils down to what experience I want and how much Im willing to pay.

Do I see Gsync, raytracing and DLSS being worth an extra $250NZD for those features.

Im still leaning more towards the Radeon atm. but your point is also valid.

 

I think im with you on this one. i'll jump on RTX when it becomes more optimized and refined. but for now it looks like im joining team red

I mean if your go a upgrade again next year anyways then sure but if your going to keep it as long as the 970 what’s that 4/5 years ? 
then really think about it 

[mr moose]

33 minutes ago, Viddiecent said:

Atm moment no I'm only using a 1080p monitor and maybe my 4k tv with my xbox controller depending on the game (fallout 4, skyrim, farcry, etc) I am looking at an ultrawide just because I like the idea of having no bezels and having lots of real-estate for productivity and stuff but I'd also like to experience games that way too. I often play strategy's as well hoi4, CoH2 and a few other that I can see being alot more useful. 

 

It's really important when buying a GPU to consider what resolution you intend using it with over the next few years.   Both will be fine for 1080 but as soon as you move to 1440 or anything wider you'll not really be getting anything back for the extra you spend on the RTX.   Don't get me wrong it is an awesome card, but unless the raw gaming performance (no dlss or RT) is matched to it's price then those other features could well be wasted money.

[Viddiecent]

Hey all just a quick update. I ended up Going for the 2070S in the end. After hearing about all the driver issues and little things like that I decided it was gonna cost more but be a lot less hassle Ended up being with all the fittings backplate waterblock etc under $1700 NZD (Bout $1000 USD) all up. Screenshot of parts below.

 

Just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone for the advice and i'd love to hear feedback if you think I was right in doing so or not?