Rocket League dropping support for MacOS and Linux. Refunds offered...kind of

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

31 minutes ago, wasab said:

You seem to be assuming primary use for a computer is gaming. 

That does not matter, and this is a retort of questionable relation to the original discussion. Gaming, home use, industry and enterprise, in all these groups (though the last one confuses me here) as well as in general statistics, the volume of Windows user trounce the respective volume of Linux users. They may be a closer-knit group for all sorts of reasons, some I do not personally see as particularly benevolent, but that does not speak much about volumes of actual users.

[wasab]

2 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

That does not matter, and this is a retort of questionable relation to the original discussion. Gaming, home use, industry and enterprise, in all these groups (though the last one confuses me here) as well as in general statistics, the volume of Windows user trounce the respective volume of Linux users. They may be a closer-knit group for all sorts of reasons, some I do not personally see as particularly benevolent, but that does not speak much about volumes of actual users.

Linux users use linux for the FOSS softwares and to avoid windows in general. The offical supoort is not relevant because we do not tend to use propietary softwares anyways. Number of users on the platforms are less so. 

[Dutch_Master]

54 minutes ago, wasab said:

You seem to be assuming primary use for a computer is gaming. 

It's an assumption held by many, if not all, gamers

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

8 minutes ago, wasab said:

Linux users use linux for the FOSS softwares and to avoid windows in general. The offical supoort is not relevant because we do not tend to use propietary softwares anyways. Number of users on the platforms are less so. 

That is a loaded statement and a bunch of non-sequiturs that you are throwing at me. First, what on earth does the use of proprietary software have to do with official support or numbers of users? Second, while I do like FOSS, and can appreciate its benefits, I also understand that it is not the end-all-be-all, and treating the concept like an infallible diety is very cultish and ultimately unhelpful.

[wasab]

Just now, Dutch_Master said:

It's an assumption held by many, if not all, gamers

thats probably what they do 90% of the time on a computer. For most people, web browsing takes up majority of their computer time, far more than any other applications like games or office documents. 

[Dutch_Master]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:31 PM, Curious Pineapple said:

Because your "superior" OS is used by such a tiny percentage of the players that supporting it isn't worth the trouble

Actually, Linux is used by all Win-OS users. And anyone else that uses the internet as all root servers of the WWW are running on Linux

[wasab]

1 minute ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

That is a loaded statement and a bunch of non-sequiturs that you are throwing at me. First, what on earth does the use of proprietary software have to do with official support or numbers of users?

Beacuse thats what this thread is about? Company dropping support, a game in this case? Also, what does number of users have to do with anything other than the fact a support is dropped? you are literally dismissing the entire point of this discussion. 

 

4 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Second, while I do like FOSS, and can appreciate its benefits, I also understand that it is not the end-all-be-all, and treating the concept like an infallible diety is very cultish and ultimately unhelpful.

That is like calling people cultish for following certain philosphy, ideal, or principles. 

[Dutch_Master]

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

thats probably what they do 90% of the time on a computer. For most people, web browsing takes up majority of their computer time, far more than any other applications like games or office documents. 

I think you must have missed the pun in my reply. But yes, most users do not game and use the browser as their main application on a PC.

[wasab]

3 minutes ago, Dutch_Master said:

And anyone else that uses the internet as all root servers of the WWW are running on Linux

I wouldnt say all, but more than any other OS for web servers

[Curious Pineapple]

13 hours ago, wasab said:

You seem to be assuming primary use for a computer is gaming. 

This is a thread about gaming, gaming on Linux, and a game no longer supporting Linux, so yes, in this context the only use we are discussing is gaming.

[Chunchunmaru_]

I don't know why every linux thread goes wrong every time

[Dutch_Master]

Win-OS users: we r da dominance

Mac-OS users: we r da bling

Linux users: uptime baby!

 

[jagdtigger]

42 minutes ago, Dutch_Master said:

Linux users: uptime baby!

Not just uptime, its also less annoying because it doesnt need a reboot every time you install an update, unlike some other OS...   (Not to mention the quality of said updates.)

[Dutch_Master]

Ah, well, I have to partially disagree with you here. Installing kernel updates or, as this topic is about gaming, video-card drivers, do require rebooting your Linux system. And particular for nVidia cards you'd need to drop back to the cli to run the installer in the first place, as said installer will not run while X (the windowing system) is running. Having done a fair few nVidia installs over the years, I know all about that (well, not literally). Not so well versed in AMD drivers, although I do have a few AMD cards lying around I often take the easy way and install the free drivers. Given I don't use my PC for gaming (nor are the cards suitable for modern games anyway) the community drivers are fine for my needs.

[IdlePX]

2 hours ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

I don't know why every linux thread goes wrong every time

Ideology and misinformation, on both sides. 

 

@Dutch_Master I haven't had to use CLI for years to install a driver. Although a restart is needed, certainly in Ubuntu land, the 'additional drivers' app has given me a 1-click graphics card driver install since... 2007? 

[Dutch_Master]

I don't use Ubuntu and it's been a while since I last installed a proprietary driver, so I guess I'm a little outdated then. Thx 4 clarifying that.

[wasab]

9 hours ago, Curious Pineapple said:

This is a thread about gaming, gaming on Linux, and a game no longer supporting Linux, so yes, in this context the only use we are discussing is gaming.

And only if you own and play rocket league. In fact, why don't we narrow the scope even further to those who still play and enjoy rocket league and not those who just played it for one hour and left it sitting in their steam library untouched for eternity. 

 

If one game is enough to make or break a platform, even a gaming platform then that platform is nowhere versatile enough. Like I said, I would just get a refund. End users are compensated. No harm, no foul. 

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, Dutch_Master said:

Ah, well, I have to partially disagree with you here. Installing kernel updates or, as this topic is about gaming, video-card drivers, do require rebooting your Linux system. And particular for nVidia cards you'd need to drop back to the cli to run the installer in the first place, as said installer will not run while X (the windowing system) is running. Having done a fair few nVidia installs over the years, I know all about that (well, not literally). Not so well versed in AMD drivers, although I do have a few AMD cards lying around I often take the easy way and install the free drivers. Given I don't use my PC for gaming (nor are the cards suitable for modern games anyway) the community drivers are fine for my needs.

I can only speak about ubuntu, it has a built in tool for installing nvidia drivers without the need to drop down to cli. Fun fact, the built in amd gpu drivers are actually very good so you dont need to install anything.

[mr moose]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:50 PM, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Quantity =\= quality

As has been pointed out, user base numbers effect product development regardless of OS quality.

 

On 1/31/2020 at 8:13 AM, TechyBen said:

Nope. Not even close. Sorry. Quality? Linux can be argues to have better Kernel/function quality. Mac better GUI quality. Windows hits the middle metric. If quantity = quality, *everyone* would own a Veyron.

 

That's not how the free market arguments works,  most people will not buy a veyron due to price alone.  Keeping it in context to the discussion, if the linux desktop was suitable for business/home (several distro's offer very competitive product support just like MS does) then more people would use it.  The operating system is a tool and should be thought of as one when considering free market business.   If you can get a better tool cheaper you do.  That is why 99% of web servers are Linux,  it is a better tool for the job. 

 

The fact is majority of people do not use it (to the tune of 97% or so) means it is either not good enough or costs too much, it has been around well long enough to prove itself in the free market with several laptop manufacturers offering laptops with ubuntu (or at least did),  and in that time chromebooks have come and are still a thing.  So market presence alone is not the reason Linux is only at 2%

[leadeater]

On 2/1/2020 at 10:06 AM, wasab said:

Beacuse thats what this thread is about? Company dropping support, a game in this case? Also, what does number of users have to do with anything other than the fact a support is dropped? you are literally dismissing the entire point of this discussion. 

It has everything to do with it, support was dropped 100% because of that and nothing else. It doesn't have anything to do with game engine, DX11 etc etc. If the user base was there then the migration to new underpinning technology of the game would have included Linux support, it didn't happen because the number of users did not support the business cost to do so. 

 

This is a state of affairs not exclusive to Rocket League either. Linux gaming isn't a thing because it isn't a thing, it's a self defeating situation that can only be solved by a large enough and influential group willing to take the loss, Steam/Valve pretty much being the only one ticking the necessary boxes and who are already trying. Problem is the real solution is Native support and that's a long way off, Proton is about raising the profile so it actually can be a true consideration.

[wasab]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Snip

First of all I clearly said "other than support is dropped" which means I acknowledge the small user base caused the support to be dropped. You are just posting the obvious like sky is blue which I have heard countless times and which I don't need to be reminded of. 

 

2nd, I said clearly that despite the lack of official support, this matters very little to those who game on Linux such as myself. We did not switch to Linux for its huge varieties of native games and we do not expect software support from the developers for addressing Linux issues when their softwares are native to windows only. Something which you also clearly missed and you are just reinstating the same cliche I clearly addressed. 

 

Finally, I like to add financial incentive is not necessary to produce good quality services, softwares, or any other products for that matter. Otherwise, philanthropy and charity should just be scrapped for some commercial  insurance schemes. 

[bcredeur97]

why can't they switch to vulkan so it just works on everything?

[wasab]

26 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

why can't they switch to vulkan so it just works on everything?

Same reason to how the Microsoft killed opengl.

 

Game engine need to support it and binaries still need to be recompile though. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

Finally, I like to add financial incentive is not necessary to produce good quality services, softwares, or any other products for that matter. Otherwise, philanthropy and charity should just be scrapped for some commercial  insurance schemes. 

Well you're also making the mistake thinking free is actually free, nothing is free charity or otherwise. You can be charitable, however charitable organizations don't operate at a loss or they also cease to exist.

 

1 hour ago, wasab said:

2nd, I said clearly that despite the lack of official support, this matters very little to those who game on Linux such as myself. We did not switch to Linux for its huge varieties of native games and we do not expect software support from the developers for addressing Linux issues when their softwares are native to windows only. Something which you also clearly missed and you are just reinstating the same cliche I clearly addressed. 

Yes you don't but others do care, that's why for them Proton was such good news. You can be happy with status quo while others want an improvement to the situation.

 

I didn't miss anything I'm addressing your wide sweeping brushing aside in that and other comments about user base, who actually uses Linux or wants to use Linux and how the loss of support from an actually very popular game is not important. I've never played Rocket League, the dropping of support is still important.

[wasab]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well you're also making the mistake thinking free is actually free, nothing is free charity or otherwise. You can be charitable, however charitable organizations don't operate at a loss or they also cease to exist.

The act of giving away something for nothing is already operating at a loss. Stop being so cynical. Humans aren't as self serving as you think. 

 

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I didn't miss anything I'm address your wide sweeping brushing aside in that and other comments about user base, who actually uses Linux or wants to use Linux and how the loss of support from an actually very popular game is not important. I've never played Rocket League, the dropping of support is still important.

Linux have more use than just playing rocket league. I already said if one software is enough to make or break a platform, then that platform is simply not versatile enough. You are still speaking issues which I clearly addressed.

 

Like I said, we do not game on Linux for the number of native games or the software support. If linux gamers have been ditching windows for Linux's arcane wine hacks and small number of native games before steam, what makes you think end of support for rocket league will lead these gamers to switch to windows now that valve is flooding the Linux platform with thousands more games year on year? 

 

You are totally missing the point why we use Linux and why we choose to game on Linux.