Rocket League dropping support for MacOS and Linux. Refunds offered...kind of

[wasab]

5 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I just spent an hour getting a printer to print on Linux, with the manufacturers Linux driver, and it's still useless. Not the fault of the OS, but if hardware doesn't work I can't use the OS. Should I go buy another printer and hope that it is always available, or should I just dump Linux and use Windows as it works?

If something from the manufacturer doesn't work, I dumb that printer and go to another printer similar to how if a printer doesn't work on windows(did happen to me one point) , I assume that printer is the issue. How many people change operating system for this? Especially driver is available? 

[wasab]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

I think you have completely missed the point, I didn't say people were switching to Linux for the sake of gaming I said losing support of a large title is a blow to that becoming a thing, that means it's not a thing now.

No it isn't and rocket league is not the epitome of gaming. If rocket league is never invented or its company suddenly gone bankrupt, it would be a real hyperbole for you to say video game industry has taken a step backwards. 

[Curious Pineapple]

2 minutes ago, wasab said:

If something from the manufacturer doesn't work, I dumb that printer and go to another printer similar to how if a printer doesn't work on windows(did happen to me one point) , I assume that printer is the issue. How many people change operating system for this? Especially driver is available? 

Epson EU-T300, not exactly a standard printer. Whatever printer I'm using, if the Linux support stops in the future, the machine is useless. Linux is not a realistic option due to lack of support, as most kiosk applications run Windows.

[wasab]

7 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Linux is not a realistic option due to lack of support, as most kiosk applications run Windows.

Like I said, you simply get a quality printer with a quality driver that works and many good quality printer do work for linux. What would you do if this happens on Windows? You call the printer defective and RMA it.

 

Sounds to me you have that printer around for a while before you start plugging it into a Linux computer. If such is the case, I don't know what to tell you other than you need to buy new printers if you want to adopt new/different technologies. 

[IdlePX]

47 minutes ago, wasab said:

Go complain in a blog and go to the press then and maybe developer will take pity on you. I seriously don't understand why you are placing the blame on an operating system instead of the company that are dropping support for it. Doesn't matter if you care about rocket league deeply. That game has 0 relevance in the grand scheme of things and barely make a dent. 

For frick sake... I'm not blaming Linux for anything. I'm trying to make the point to you, that not everyone uses Linux for the same reasons and not everyone feels the same way. Blanket statements about all Linux users is never going to be correct.

[wasab]

27 minutes ago, IdlePX said:

For frick sake... I'm not blaming Linux for anything. I'm trying to make the point to you, that not everyone uses Linux for the same reasons and not everyone feels the same way. Blanket statements about all Linux users is never going to be correct.

Do you even play rocket leagues? What you are telling me is that you want rocket league on Linux and not having it is the end of the world for you. I can't say all users but I will say for one given operating system, one software will not make or break it. Linux support has been dropped countless times. Many broken promises like port of witcher 3, arknam knight, and Rome 2 that never happened. All of these are outcries I am tired of hearing and in the end, make very little difference a couple years down the line. You go support developers who make good on their promise and punish those who backtrack/backstab by not buying the games and request a refund instead of crying out Linux is going backwards as a gaming platform. Doing the latter instead of the former simply encourages more malpractice from the game company because they know you will do whatever to keep playing and spending regardless whatever shit they do. simple as that. 

[IdlePX]

@wasab Where did I say any of that? 

 

[wasab]

1 minute ago, IdlePX said:

@wasab Where did I say any of that? 

 

So what are you saying otherwise? 

[IdlePX]

@wasab Wha... I... Bu... *Sighs* Have you been reading my posts before you reply to them?

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

No it isn't and rocket league is not the epitome of gaming. If rocket league is never invented or its company suddenly gone bankrupt, it would be a real hyperbole for you to say video game industry has taken a step backwards. 

Only you are saying that, lol. It is a step backwards and that is not reliant on Rocket League being 'the epitome of gaming'. If you at all care about gaming on Linux then you care about this, otherwise you do not care, only claim to.

 

I can't see anywhere where I said Linux gaming is now burned to ash because of one game 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

No it isn't and rocket league is not the epitome of gaming. If rocket league is never invented or its company suddenly gone bankrupt, it would be a real hyperbole for you to say video game industry has taken a step backwards. 

What this post really says:

 

If we just remove an intrinsic part of the what happened and make the core discussion about something else then I can call your claims pure hyperbole.

 

It seems you have a problem with the basic reality of people not seeing things your way.  Linux is trash for most people.  Like it or not.  I can't believe you would argue people should buy a specific printer (rather than the one they want) just because linux.

 

 

[Curious Pineapple]

16 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It seems you have a problem with the basic reality of people not seeing things your way.  Linux is trash for most people.  Like it or not.  I can't believe you would argue people should buy a specific printer (rather than the one they want) just because linux.

I doubt they even looked at what a T300 is.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I doubt they even looked at what a T300 is.

To be honest neither did I,  But to be reasonable about this, it doesn't matter. If you have to limit your hardware options for one OS but not another then why would anyone suffer with a product you don't won't? 

[TechyBen]

22 hours ago, mr moose said:

As has been pointed out, user base numbers effect product development regardless of OS quality.

 

 

That's not how the free market arguments works,  most people will not buy a veyron due to price alone.  Keeping it in context to the discussion, if the linux desktop was suitable for business/home (several distro's offer very competitive product support just like MS does) then more people would use it.  The operating system is a tool and should be thought of as one when considering free market business.   If you can get a better tool cheaper you do.  That is why 99% of web servers are Linux,  it is a better tool for the job. 

 

The fact is majority of people do not use it (to the tune of 97% or so) means it is either not good enough or costs too much, it has been around well long enough to prove itself in the free market with several laptop manufacturers offering laptops with ubuntu (or at least did),  and in that time chromebooks have come and are still a thing.  So market presence alone is not the reason Linux is only at 2%

"Best" and "not how the free market works". I was not commenting on the free market. But on "best". But continue pushing your agenda.

[IdlePX]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If you have to limit your hardware options for one OS but not another then why would anyone suffer with a product you don't won't? 

Because the OS might be awesome in every other way for an individual (like me). I usually give things a quick google before I buy to make sure they work on Linux. I've had to change what I intended to buy once in the last 10 years, and it was no biggy for me. Before 2010, well, yeah. Linux drivers were a million times worse.

 

 

[TechyBen]

13 hours ago, Sir0Tek said:

On topic:

The problem with this specific case here is they do change the actual game and its rules while locking some of its buyers out and keeping others in. If they had left the actual game as it is while presenting a follow-up (rl2, rl-extreme or whatever) for Win7+ only, with EAC and whatsoever included, then there would be very little outcry.

This. It's the Team Fortress 2 problem all over again. Put the new features/destroy your game in the sequel (re-release in new engine/new lootcrates etc). But why "break" existing customers, other than to skin/scalp/scam the existing player base (add adds, loot boxes, physiological microtransactions)?

[Curious Pineapple]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

To be honest neither did I,  But to be reasonable about this, it doesn't matter. If you have to limit your hardware options for one OS but not another then why would anyone suffer with a product you don't won't? 

You didn't need to know what it was, you didn't suggest just buying something else

 

It's an embedded kiosk printer, bit of an older one but the driver situation with the newer hardware is the same. I'm writing a rather specific piece of software and compatability with as much hardware as possible is needed.

 

Funnily enough I have finally got the touch panel and printer working a treat, but tweaking my code for Mono has just busted the application and now it won't run on anything. Yeh, Linux is great for some things but as you said, in this case it is trash and I've wasted my afternoon.

[IdlePX]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That is thee case for some people, but not the majority.  This community (and ones like it) is by far the best place to find Linux users, and when you have at least half them telling you they have issues regularity with it that the rest of society will too.

That's the problem with anecdotal comments about Linux. I believe at least half of Linux users do not have problems with it, let alone regularly. When there are no problems, nobody complains. So guesstimated-means-nothing metrics like "I've seen guys complain about it on a web forum" are utterly redundant. 

 

Although, if you do have a real metric to show me how many users have problems with their machines, I'm all ears and would be interested in knowing.

[Curious Pineapple]

I should cay that I used to use Linux daily until I had a catastrophic drive failure. Collapsed bearing on primary drive and second just refused to read anything after not being used for months. I tried Windows 10 and prefer it to Linux. it's quicker and no pissing around to get applications to run.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

 

Linux dominates the server and embedded hardware markets because it's better suited to that use than the alternatives. No manufacturer is going to start using Windows 10 IoT in routers as the market doesn't exist, there's no market as no one manufacturers them.

This right here is what confused me about all the Linux rants.   We have absolute proof that where Linux is good it is adopted in extremely high market shares.  99.7% web servers, 99.99% of routers/embedded devices and underpins 80% of the mobile market.  People are happy to claim that this is because it is good and stable and why wouldn't people use what is clearly the better option, etc. but when we point to windows being the same in the desktop sphere, all of a sudden the argument changes to, "yeah... well... Linux is still better...  problems aren't an issue because...    And on it goes, they can't accept that maybe people do use the better option.

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

This right here is what confused me about all the Linux rants.   We have absolute proof that where Linux is good it is adopted in extremely high market shares.  99.7% web servers, 99.99% of routers/embedded devices and underpins 80% of the mobile market.  People are happy to claim that this is because it is good and stable and why wouldn't people use what is clearly the better option, etc. but when we point to windows being the same in the desktop sphere, all of a sudden the argument changes to, "yeah... well... Linux is still better...  problems aren't an issue because...    And on it goes, they can't accept that maybe people do use the better option.

The thing is Linux IS a better operating system in so many respects, but the fragmented nature of it means that supporting it is a nightmare. So many distributions, then distributions based on distributions with different display managers, audio subsystems, core library version differences, different system init's, the list goes on and on.

 

Windows is Windows. If winver is greater than minimum, it works. In some cases, forcing an installation works fine and a Windows 8 driver may work on XP, I use a Windows XP driver on 10.

[wasab]

15 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Maybe you don't get it, almost the entire point of sale and retail industry uses Windows, and as a result, very few vendors support Linux. Who is going to base a solution around Linux if they are limited to 4 or 5 vendors on Alibaba with badly translated documentation? Why would Epson, NCR, Wincor etc bother providing Linux support if no-one uses it?

 

I never said I was developing for Linux either, I said I can't develop for Linux due to hardware compatability.

Linux POS vendors do exists and they bundle both the printer and computer working right out of the box including technicians who will go over and fix up things if you need extra maintenence. You are not buying the right things

[Curious Pineapple]

Quite funny really, I've been using Windows all along. So no, I didn't buy hardware to use on Linux, I tried Linux after developing the platform on Windows. Which is my point really, I have NO control over what hardware this may be used on beyond giving a generic "should work on this" compatibility list. I can't use Linux because of manufacturer support (or lack of), and manufacturers have no need to offer support as the industry uses Windows. If the few manufacturers that offer support start dropping it, then there is less potential new projects to be based on Linux.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Nahh it's alright, I'll go grab an A3 HP laser printer with Linux drivers to print receipts

Well to be fair receipt and label printers are the worst. I know for one of the software packages I interacted with the recommended driver from the software company for the printer was one for a totally different brand and model, because it actually worked unlike the proper one. I made the critical mistake of looking at the printer and going to the manufacture's website and getting the driver for that printer, it printed about 3m before I pulled the power out lol.

 

And it's not like getting a different printer was an option, the choices are very limited and it also has to be supported by the software too. I don't think I've ever had a seamless experience with anything to do with point of sales.

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well to be fair receipt and label printers are the worst. I know for one of the software packages I interacted with the recommended driver from the software company for the printer was one for a totally different brand and model, because it actually worked unlike the proper one. I made the critical mistake of looking at the printer and going to the manufacture's website and getting the driver for that printer, it printed about 3m before I pulled the power out lol.

 

And it's not like getting a different printer was an option, the choices are very limited and it also has to be supported by the software too. I don't think I've ever had a seamless experience with anything to do with point of sales.

The free market has decided that receipt printers have to be shit because we have no other choice... This might be the reason why there 20 Epson POS printers at Goodwill the other day. 

Spoiler

And no I didn't buy them! 

Spoiler

Only 2...

Spoiler

They were $5 each with all cables.