Verizon can't cover a basketball stadium with 5G

[spartaman64]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

This is not due to capacity necessarily. Data limits are due to the fact TV revenue is drying up and the Cable co doesn’t know what to do. So they impose limits to force you to buy TV from them. 
 

Speeds have been getting better. Many ISPs at least in the US can offer at least 1Gbps down. Upload rates are shit most of the time, but Fiber and Coax providers can’t offer the speeds. xDSL, is just dead at this point. 

sure you can get 1gbps if you pay them like a billion dollars for them to build fiber to your house

[spartaman64]

10 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

You have to remember that wireless is a shared medium.

Can our current 4G towers handle a 4K video? Absolutely. Can it handle 50 people all trying to load a 4K video? Nope...

Will it be able to handle 50 people trying to stream 4K videos, plus self-driving cars, plus a bunch of other connected devices in the future? Most likely not.

 

Even if 4G is capable of high speeds today, once you load a base station with lots of users the speed for each individual one quickly drops.

 

If your home WiFi can handle a 4K stream when you're alone, then it will only be able to handle delivering you a 720p video stream if you got 16 devices connected and trying to watch videos. It's the same with cellular.

 

We don't need 5G because we need higher peak throughput. We need it to maintain high throughput while we keep adding more and more devices. 

all the more reason why websites dont want to make their bandwidth that demanding

[LAwLz]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

all the more reason why websites dont want to make their bandwidth that demanding

Yes but even if websites stay the same, we will still add more devices which increases the need for bandwidth, which drives the need for new cellular standards.

 

Things like self-driving cars might have a huge need for high throughput, low latency and reliable connections, which 5G is perfect for.

And when I say reliable I don't mean "it gets good coverage", I mean low packet loss and low interference.

[ryao]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:18 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

I feel like there's a mentality of chasing theoretical speeds with no regard for reality.  In real life, there's a sweetspot.  Make the frequency too low and bandwidth will be limited, but make it too high and penetration + range are so garbage that you get the same outcome, just for a different reason.  They need to figure out what the ideal range is and just work on that.

 

Although with that said, it doesn't really explain the issue here.  Wouldn't everyone to be serviced be sitting in one big open area, unobstructed?

The air attenuates the signals. That is why the military likes to use 60GHz for “short range” communication.

[Donut417]

46 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

sure you can get 1gbps if you pay them like a billion dollars for them to build fiber to your house

Not sure what rock your living under. Comcast can do Gigabit to most of its customers via coax. Docsis 3.1 have you heard of it? It’s rated for 10 Gbps down 2Gbps up. Current upstream is still low 45 ish Mbps for most providers. 
 

Also you can get 2Gbps fiber from Comcast, as long as your with in 1/3 mile of their fiber network. $1000 install, $299 a month. That’s not a billion a month. 

[spartaman64]

13 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not sure what rock your living under. Comcast can do Gigabit to most of its customers via coax. Docsis 3.1 have you heard of it? It’s rated for 10 Gbps down 2Gbps up. Current upstream is still low 45 ish Mbps for most providers. 
 

Also you can get 2Gbps fiber from Comcast, as long as your with in 1/3 mile of their fiber network. $1000 install, $299 a month. That’s not a billion a month. 

The last time I tried to get 1gbps from comcast they said they have to build fiber to my house and charge me 24,000 dollars. So you are saying that they lied to me. Typical Comcast. Also this doesn't change the fact they have a 1TB data cap 

[leadeater]

38 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not sure what rock your living under. Comcast can do Gigabit to most of its customers via coax. Docsis 3.1 have you heard of it? It’s rated for 10 Gbps down 2Gbps up. Current upstream is still low 45 ish Mbps for most providers. 
 

Also you can get 2Gbps fiber from Comcast, as long as your with in 1/3 mile of their fiber network. $1000 install, $299 a month. That’s not a billion a month. 

It's still a shared medium with lesser capabilities than GPON and 10GPON, while both are shared mediums DOCSIS cannot support anywhere near the same number of users at high data rates. It's a great solution for existing infrastructure but there's still a massive conflict of interest in the US when it comes to cable TV providers also being ISPs and own those last mile cables, they'll do anything to protect that vital asset they have because that is more important than deploying fibre no matter the benefit to them or their customers.

 

Current cost for running fibre from the road side box to a house is about $1100 NZD ($700 USD). Anyone that says fibre costs more to deploy is talking crock, the cost is largely the same irrespective of what you are putting in the ground, that is more a side issue cost wise.

 

Edit:

No ISP wants to break ground because that is the ignition of a money furnace, but if it were to happen and because it's happening there is great incentive to make it as cost efficient as possible which means doing as large deployments as possible to get the per connection cost down. If the situation were to change and there was an incentive to break ground coverage of high speed internet access would explode rapidly, it's one of those will or won't happen situations.

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

sure you can get 1gbps if you pay them like a billion dollars for them to build fiber to your house

DOCSIS 3.x is widely deployed in North America - I live in a Regional municipality of about 500,000 people (my specific city has a little over 100,000 people). I can pretty much get 1 Gbps DOCSIS 3.x cable internet at mostly any address in the city.

 

And it's not a billion dollars - it's like $150/mo at most. A lot, sure - but not unattainable for a regular person with a half decent job.

2 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

The last time I tried to get 1gbps from comcast they said they have to build fiber to my house and charge me 24,000 dollars. So you are saying that they lied to me. Typical Comcast. Also this doesn't change the fact they have a 1TB data cap 

Don't put words in his mouth. He never said every address in America has Gigabit. He said it's very common.

 

When they want to charge you $24,000 for a Gigabit connection, what they are actually telling you is that your house isn't connected to a FTTN node - since that's how DOCSIS 3.x works - Fibre to a central node in your neighbourhood, Coax to the house.

 

So your house - maybe it has Coax for DOCSIS 2.0 and Cable TV. But the node you're connected to is a traditional node - one they aren't planning on upgrading at the moment. So they want upfront money to cover either the cost of a proper FTTH true fibre installation, or the cost of upgrading the node (and laying a Fibre run from the closest fibre lines to the node itself).

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

It's still a shared medium with lesser capabilities than GPON and 10GPON, while both are shared mediums

Never said it wasn’t a share medium. Just pointing out that many ISPs offer Gigabit. Even Fiber providers it’s a shared medium, just not as many users. Fact of the matter is the poster stated internet speeds are not growing. That’s clearly false. 

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

The last time I tried to get 1gbps from comcast they said they have to build fiber to my house and charge me 24,000 dollars. So you are saying that they lied to me. Typical Comcast. Also this doesn't change the fact they have a 1TB data cap 

First of all I didn’t say it was available every where, but most places have gigabit. Secondly Comcast has Gigabit and Gigabit pro. They could have miss understood. Also did you have a Comcast connection before ordering Gigabit? Because if not that was them having to do a plant extension to get service to you address. Generally if the ISP doesn’t have you connected already and your too far from the network, they make YOU pay for the build out to your property. 

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

First of all I didn’t say it was available every where, but most places have gigabit. Secondly Comcast has Gigabit and Gigabit pro. They could have miss understood. Also did you have a Comcast connection before ordering Gigabit? Because if not that was them having to do a plant extension to get service to you address. Generally if the ISP doesn’t have you connected already and your too far from the network, they make YOU pay for the build out to your property. 

yes i was already using comcast

[dalekphalm]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

yes i was already using comcast

In that case, either they haven't upgraded your Node to FTTN yet, or they misunderstood you, and thought you wanted pure FTTH fibre.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

DOCSIS 3.x is widely deployed in North America - I live in a Regional municipality of about 500,000 people (my specific city has a little over 100,000 people). I can pretty much get 1 Gbps DOCSIS 3.x cable internet at mostly any address in the city.

 

And it's not a billion dollars - it's like $150/mo at most. A lot, sure - but not unattainable for a regular person with a half decent job.

Don't put words in his mouth. He never said every address in America has Gigabit. He said it's very common.

 

When they want to charge you $24,000 for a Gigabit connection, what they are actually telling you is that your house isn't connected to a FTTN node - since that's how DOCSIS 3.x works - Fibre to a central node in your neighbourhood, Coax to the house.

 

So your house - maybe it has Coax for DOCSIS 2.0 and Cable TV. But the node you're connected to is a traditional node - one they aren't planning on upgrading at the moment. So they want upfront money to cover either the cost of a proper FTTH true fibre installation, or the cost of upgrading the node (and laying a Fibre run from the closest fibre lines to the node itself).

i wasnt saying i didnt believe him i said comcast lied to me to try to milk money out of me which they are known to do so im not surprised but if my house isnt connected to a FTTN node then maybe they didnt lie

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i wasnt saying i didnt believe him

Maybe not, but this:

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i said comcast lied to me to try to milk money out of me

has no basis for reality. How do you know Comcast lied to you?

4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

which they are known to do so im not surprised but if my house isnt connected to a FTTN node then maybe they didnt lie

Yeah - how about you find out what's actually true before just throwing shade around?

 

Look, Comcast aren't "The Good Guys" - they're a big evil CableCo who wants nothing more than to suck us all dry of money.

 

But just because they're a big CableCo, doesn't mean they're lying about everything they do. Part of how they suck you dry of money is by making sure you're a reliable customer who keeps paying for service. If they make a habit of lying to everyone - they will fail at that.

[vanished]

5 hours ago, ryao said:

The air attenuates the signals. That is why the military likes to use 60GHz for “short range” communication.

I suppose so.  Yeah that definitely seems like it's off the top end of my scale given the intended application

[spartaman64]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Maybe not, but this:

has no basis for reality. How do you know Comcast lied to you?

Yeah - how about you find out what's actually true before just throwing shade around?

 

Look, Comcast aren't "The Good Guys" - they're a big evil CableCo who wants nothing more than to suck us all dry of money.

 

But just because they're a big CableCo, doesn't mean they're lying about everything they do. Part of how they suck you dry of money is by making sure you're a reliable customer who keeps paying for service. If they make a habit of lying to everyone - they will fail at that.

He didn't tell me that I needed a fttn node he said I needed docsis 3.1 which I have a cm1000 with docsis 3.1. And Comcast lied to me in the past when my grand parents are gardening they accidentally cut the line to my house. And then comcast tried to charge me for the technician that fixed it but I saw online that the line should be buried 18-24 inches deep and it was buried like 2 inches if that. So it was their fault since they installed it incorrectly and after arguing about it for a bit the next day they called and finally said they will wave the charges.

edit: oh and i forgot to mention that they buried it in our garden plot and it was clearly a garden plot with wire fencing

[dalekphalm]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

He didn't tell me that I needed a fttn node he said I needed docsis 3.1

FTTN and DOCSIS 3.1 are the same thing (or rather, DOCSIS 3.1 is a form of FTTN). It's highly unlikely any ISP support agent would use the term FTTN to begin with.

Just now, spartaman64 said:

which I have a cm1000 with docsis 3.1.

You have a modem that supports DOCSIS 3.1. That doesn't mean you already have a DOCSIS 3.1 connection. We have no idea what your existing connection is.

Just now, spartaman64 said:

And Comcast lied to me in the past when my grand parents are gardening they accidentally cut the line to my house. And then comcast tried to charge me for the technician that fixed it but I saw online that the line should be buried 18-24 inches deep and it was buried like 2 inches if that. So it was their fault since they installed it incorrectly and after arguing about it for a bit the next day they called and finally said they will wave the charges.

Never said they were perfect. Them lying because they made a mistake (more likely, the Technician lied because he fucked up/didn't do his job properly, and the agent simply believed whatever he told them), is not the same as them lying on something like whether you have FTTN in the area.

 

In fact, it doesn't make sense for them to lie about that. If they do have FTTN in the area, you can upgrade to a higher tier package and they can charge you more, thus making more money.

 

Look, you obviously have a bias against Comcast - I don't blame you - but we need to separate that from the core issue - which is that yes, indeed, Internet Speeds are indeed getting faster on average across North America and Europe too.

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Look, you obviously have a bias against Comcast - I don't blame you - but we need to separate that from the core issue - which is that yes, indeed, Internet Speeds are indeed getting faster on average across North America and Europe too.

but at the same time isps are introducing data caps and web devs probably dont want to see usage of their website drop off the cliff towards the end of the month

[dalekphalm]

41 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

but at the same time isps are introducing data caps and web devs probably dont want to see usage of their website drop off the cliff towards the end of the month

Some ISP's - not mine. In fact, the upper speed tiers are usually being sold with unlimited data as an incentive to upgrade.

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

but at the same time isps are introducing data caps and web devs probably dont want to see usage of their website drop off the cliff towards the end of the month

For the record Comcast does have an unlmited options. 

 

1) You can pay $25/m extra under promtotion and its goes to $50/m, 

2) You can pay $15/m for their modem instead of the $13/m and it comes with unlimited data. 

3) Order Gigabit Pro, its 100% unlimited, but thats becuase of its cost and the fact is Metro Ethernet. 

 

Also Comcast isnt the only one. AT&T and Cox both have caps. WOW's CEO a year or so back said they might end up having to implement them. 

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

WOW's CEO

WOW?

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

WOW?

Wide Open West. 

 

https://www.wowway.com