Is HTML actually a coding language???

[Franck]

6 minutes ago, wasab said:

Is latex a mark up language?

Well it create great templates so i would tend to say yes. But the only use i have made of it is really only visual formatting. I have not had to use it for anything else. TeX is great but darn it's complicated.

[Fourthdwarf]

On 9/13/2019 at 12:58 PM, DevBlox said:

A programming language that isn't Turing Complete would be completely useless, therefore things like that are not really programming languages.

As others have said, this is a really bad criteria. There are no turing complete programming languages (because there are no infinite tape turing machines!).

 

On 9/13/2019 at 7:15 PM, wasab said:

Let me just ask you this.... Can html do calculation like adding two numbers together? Any "programming language" that does not allow you to crunch number is no programing langauge at all. 

Of course it can. Because we're doing programming, let's use the <var> tag to encode numbers. I'm going to encode the numbers as a string - the value of the numeral is the number of characters in the string. For example 6 + 7:

 

<var>Hello,<\var>
<var> World!<\var>

Generates a string 13 characters long. Which in my encoding, means that it is the numeral 13, which is 6 + 7. Therefore you can add numbers by doing "Hello, World!".

[C2dan88]

28 minutes ago, Fourthdwarf said:

Of course it can. Because we're doing programming, let's use the <var> tag to encode numbers. I'm going to encode the numbers as a string - the value of the numeral is the number of characters in the string. For example 6 + 7:

 

<var>Hello,<\var>
<var> World!<\var>

Generates a string 13 characters long. Which in my encoding, means that it is the numeral 13, which is 6 + 7. Therefore you can add numbers by doing "Hello, World!".

What are you even on about!  The <var> tag is doing jack****. Ofcouse it will display Hello, World in one line because <var> is not a block level element.

 

Documentation for var tag

https://www.w3.org/TR/html50/text-level-semantics.html#the-var-element

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/var

 

<var> tag is just a way to represent a variable in an equation. HTML is not doing any thing with the values wrapped in <var>

[Fourthdwarf]

1 hour ago, C2dan88 said:

What are you even on about!  The <var> tag is doing jack****. Ofcouse it will display Hello, World in one line because <var> is not a block level element.

 

Documentation for var tag

https://www.w3.org/TR/html50/text-level-semantics.html#the-var-element

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/var

 

<var> tag is just a way to represent a variable in an equation. HTML is not doing any thing with the values wrapped in <var>

The var tag is just a way of delimiting the 'numbers' - If i didn't have some kind of delimiter I'd just be using concatenation without HTML, which is not the point of the exercise. The semantics of the var tag are almost besides the point - all that I care about is that the two strings are concatenated, because concatenation is an equivalent operation to addition. Using <var> was just a joke, which I could make as the particular choice of tags that do this was arbritrary.

 

This is clearly not a serious way of doing addition - but it is a technically correct way of doing addition. My point is, any definition of programming language either must include HTML, or must exclude domain specific languages that clearly *are* programming languages.

[wasab]

6 hours ago, Fourthdwarf said:

 

Of course it can. Because we're doing programming, let's use the <var> tag to encode numbers. I'm going to encode the numbers as a string - the value of the numeral is the number of characters in the string. For example 6 + 7:

 

<var>Hello,<\var>
<var> World!<\var>

Generates a string 13 characters long. Which in my encoding, means that it is the numeral 13, which is 6 + 7. Therefore you can add numbers by doing "Hello, World!".

Hahahaha. Why don't you program html to tell me what's the prime factorization of 2205?

 

Printing text isn't programming. If that's how you want to define programming then Microsoft word document is a programming language. 

 

What kind of so called programing language have no concepts of loops and subroutines or allow you to do arithmetic?

[Beskamir]

Programming language implies some level of turing completeness. HTML is not turing complete. At least not by itself and not to the degree that python is. Therefore it's not a programming language.

[WereCatf]

On 9/13/2019 at 6:01 PM, JacobFW said:

<title>MainPage</title>

Put 'MainPage' at the top of the browser when someone view this page.

Mmmno. That HTML-tag describes what the title of that document is. What the browser decides to do with it is a different thing and not all browsers do the same thing with it -- hell, a browser isn't required to do anything with it at all --, ergo it's not an instruction, it's a description.

[WereCatf]

17 hours ago, Fourthdwarf said:

The var tag is just a way of delimiting the 'numbers' - If i didn't have some kind of delimiter I'd just be using concatenation without HTML, which is not the point of the exercise. The semantics of the var tag are almost besides the point - all that I care about is that the two strings are concatenated, because concatenation is an equivalent operation to addition. Using <var> was just a joke, which I could make as the particular choice of tags that do this was arbritrary.

No. How something is displayed doesn't have anything to do with what the data actually is: try adjusting the browser-window so that it can only fit one character per line -- whoopsy, the way it's displayed has just changed and therefore your claim just flew right out the window! I mean, if displaying the characters on one line meant the strings were concatenated, it would also mean that if the characters weren't displayed on one line the strings wouldn't be concatenated -- that's not how programming-languages work, a language doesn't change how it works just because of how a variable is displayed.

[Dat Guy]

7 hours ago, Beskamir said:

Programming language implies some level of turing completeness.

SQL disagrees.

[Beskamir]

14 hours ago, Dat Guy said:

SQL disagrees.

I wouldn't consider sql a programming language any more than I'd consider markdown or html to be programming languages. I would however consider PowerPoint and Word to be programming languages as both have been proven to be turning complete.

[FlappyBoobs]

8 hours ago, Beskamir said:

I wouldn't consider sql a programming language any more than I'd consider markdown or html to be programming languages. I would however consider PowerPoint and Word to be programming languages as both have been proven to be turning complete.

 

SQL on it's own is not a programming language. However, there is almost no database in use in the world that uses pure SQL. They extend the language to make it a full blown programming language. So SQL is not a programming language, but the SQL that you use with Oracle DB or SQL Server IS part of a programming language that uses SQL syntax and operations. 

[AbsoluteFool]

This reminds me. Alot of people call php a programming language. And i'm sure more people will agrgue that php is a "weak programming language" but it's a server side scripting language that's created with C.

 

If you want an easy way to define what a programming language is. It give you the ability to make programs.

HTML as stated before is a Hypertext markup language. You may then wonder why the <a href="#"> is called a hyperlink. That's because it marks a hyperlink within a webpage.

 

php is closer to a programming language but still isn't one. Yes you can make "mimics" of a program with php. But all php do is execute stuff that already exist on a server (atleast if you can find a way to access it).

[TechyBen]

Markup?

[Dat Guy]

6 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

it's a server side scripting language that's created with C.

Nobody stops you from running PHP scripts on your local machine.

[AbsoluteFool]

1 minute ago, Dat Guy said:

Nobody stops you from running PHP scripts on your local machine.

I never said anyone did.

[Dat Guy]

You implied that PHP is a server-side language. It is not. PHP, just like all other known interpreted programming languages, is an everywhere language.

 

Thus, this...

10 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

But all php do is execute stuff that already exist on a server

... is entirely wrong.

 

Even more ridiculous: Of course, a language interpreter/compiler can only execute what already exists. Even C.

[AbsoluteFool]

1 minute ago, Dat Guy said:

You implied that PHP is a server-side language. It is not. PHP, just like all other known interpreted programming languages, is an everywhere language.

 

Thus, this...

... is entirely wrong.

 

Even more ridiculous: Of course, a language interpreter/compiler can only execute what already exists. Even C.

So you denie that php is executed on the server?

[Dat Guy]

PHP is executed wherever you want to, just like every other programming language interpreter.

[AbsoluteFool]

2 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

You implied that PHP is a server-side language. It is not. PHP, just like all other known interpreted programming languages, is an everywhere language.

 

Thus, this...

... is entirely wrong.

 

Even more ridiculous: Of course, a language interpreter/compiler can only execute what already exists. Even C.

And before you comment again. Read the bloody line before making up your own stories a,bout what i stated.. Yes you can make "mimics" of a program with php. But all php do is execute stuff that already exist on a server (atleast if you can find a way to access it).

[Dat Guy]

Just now, AbsoluteFool said:

But all php do is execute stuff that already exist on a server

This is a lie and it won't become less of a lie by repeating it again and again.

[AbsoluteFool]

Just now, Dat Guy said:

This is a lie and it won't become less of a lie by repeating it again and again.

Ok, then you wont mind writing a video editor in php?

[Dat Guy]

How is that related? You claimed that PHP can only "execute stuff that already exist on a server". Here is my proof that you lied:

 

- I installed PHP on my local machine.

- I wrote a PHP program and I ran it.

- It worked. No server involved.

 

Why do you keep saying that PHP required anything on a server?

 

2 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

you wont mind writing a video editor in php?

It is perfectly possible as PHP can - of course - run any C library, like Python and other worse languages can. It is probably not a good idea though, as it would be rather slow.

[FlappyBoobs]

13 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Nobody stops you from running PHP scripts on your local machine.

 

That doesn't mean it is not running "server side" It's just in this case the local machine is acting as both client and server. You cannot just fire up a PHP page in a browser and have it work, you have to "serve" it to the browser, unlike HTML which the browser will display without needing anything extra.

 

That's not to say you need to install IIS or Apache to serve PHP pages, you can totally run them with an interpreter without those, but in that case the interpreter is acting as the PHP server, because the browser doesn't know what to do with it. 

 

In can SEEM like you are doing nothing more than creating a PHP page and running it in your browser, but you are really running it through the interpreter that you installed when you first setup your machine to do your PHP programming. 

[Dat Guy]

Just now, FlappyBoobs said:

You cannot just fire up a PHP page in a browser

See, here's where your understanding of PHP falls short: PHP is not limited to web development. No browser needed.

[AbsoluteFool]

Just now, Dat Guy said:

See, here's where your understanding of PHP falls short: PHP is not limited to web development. No browser needed.

No one said php needs a web browser or web server for that matter. Again you're not reading everything. Just snipping up small parts that makes no sense, to agrue about.