Cheap Steel frame vs Carbon for a Bike

[Guest]

So I’ve had this cheap warehouse bike for a long time. Really been riding it quite a lot on the summer. It’s not a bad bike, 29 frame and 19” wheels. Love it. Really been raking up the miles.

 

I’ve just had to do basic maintenance like clean and relube the chain and gears, new tyre for the front, and the old front to the back, new seat (because jumping a little on the trails - what I mainly use the bike for). 

 

So im looking at a new crankset to get more teeth in the highest gear to go a bit faster, I have trouble keeping up with my dad on his new bike, because I can’t go any faster. 

 

When looking at the crankset I’ve been looking at carbon fiber frames, and very reasonable quality and price, so I can afford new handlebar, seat post, seat, frame and fork all carbon all nice. 

 

But I’m wondering how much weight will this save me? I’m always thinking my steel frame (I think it is, it was a really cheap bike and pretty heavy) is pretty heavy. What benefits will I get if I switch to a lighter carbon frame?

[dizmo]

I wouldn't get a cheap carbon frame. Cheap and carbon are not two things that should be paired together.

If it's a really cheap bike, it's not steel. It's probably chromoly. Steel is a relatively expensive material to make a frame out of.

You're better off looking at an aluminium frame.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

I wouldn't get a cheap carbon frame. Cheap and carbon are not two things that should be paired together.

If it's a really cheap bike, it's not steel. It's probably chromoly. Steel is a relatively expensive material to make a frame out of.

You're better off looking at an aluminium frame.

I’m not really concerned about the quality of the carbon frame, all good reviews so far (on forums not the marketplace). It’s a BXT.

 

[EDIT]

 

Have given it a bit more thought and will stick with what I’ve got for now. Thanks for making me do a bit more research and discovered not such a good idea !

[zassou]

imo go buy branded carbon bikes. there are some cheap carbon frames from china and it's not the most well built frame to be honest.

 

besides that, have u consider aluminium bikes? check out giant fcr or defy series.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, zassou said:

imo go buy branded carbon bikes. there are some cheap carbon frames from china and it's not the most well built frame to be honest.

 

besides that, have u consider aluminium bikes? check out giant fcr or defy series.

IDK I sorta feel like if I can get carbon for cheaper (not the BXT I found) why go for aluminum? IDK.

 

I think what I really want to know is how a lighter frame in general will feel compared to the frame I have, because even if I get a cheap frame, it’s still a large cost. 

 

Ill see about the Giant FCR then

[LaFemmeEnVert]

How much are you willing to spend and what type of cycling do you do?

[harryk]

Find a serious bike shop in your area. You should be able to demo a bike there and see how much you can feel a difference. I don't know what you have but typically steel framed bikes are >30lbs whereas the top end carbon bikes are 20-25lbs. That's 50% less mass you have to move. That being said not all carbon fiber is equal and I'd beware of something cheap. Just because someone made a frame from carbon doesn't necessarily mean its lightweight or strong or even carbon at all. Many cheap consumer carbon fiber products are actually mostly fiberglass with only a couple layers of carbon weave on top. 

 

I also suggest looking at aluminum, its notably lighter than steel, costs less than carbon and is significantly more durable. If you crash (which is inevitable) and so much as deeply scratch the carbon frame, its done. It cannot really be repaired. Once the fibers are broken or torn the structural integrity of the whole frame is at risk and it might as well be garbage.

[zassou]

10 hours ago, floofer said:

IDK I sorta feel like if I can get carbon for cheaper (not the BXT I found) why go for aluminum? IDK.

 

I think what I really want to know is how a lighter frame in general will feel compared to the frame I have, because even if I get a cheap frame, it’s still a large cost. 

 

Ill see about the Giant FCR then

carbon fibre parts can be made by small workshops in small quantities. unlike big companies like giant, specialized etc, they dont usually go through extensive testings that ensure the parts can handle not only daily wear and tear, sometimes abuse too.

 

meanwhile, aluminium frames can only be manufactured by big factories that have really expensive machines and tools, and sometimes even greater labour costs behind it, therefore, they need appropiate QA procedures to ensure they meet certain standard. thats why i dont recommend cheap carbon parts. besides, giant pratically invented the method of mass produce high quality aluminium frames.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

How much are you willing to spend and what type of cycling do you do?

I mainly cycle on advanced trails and around $500 USD at most. Seeing as that’s twice as much as I bought my bike for hoping to get a good upgrade !

[GoldenLag]

6 hours ago, floofer said:

What benefits will I get if I switch to a lighter carbon frame?

well its lighter for one. but i will just warn that carbon is suseptible to direct shock damage. and it can then splinter. 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

12 minutes ago, floofer said:

I mainly cycle on advanced trails and around $500 USD at most. Seeing as that’s twice as much as I bought my bike for hoping to get a good upgrade !

I would not trust $500 carbon bike frames.   I would rather focus on the shocks and suspension and brake system than frame material for this cost.

[Dackzy]

well the two types of materials give very different ride qualities, the carbon will be stiffer and be a bit more efficient, but the steel will be softer and absorb some bumps/vibrations making it a more comfortable ride.

Also keep in mind it often isn't a good deal to build up your own bike from the ground up, because pre specced/build ones are generally quite a bit cheaper because the manufacture gets some huge discounts on parts, so unless you have like 50% of the parts already, then I would advise you to get a prebuild/specced one. There are Direct to consumer brands like Canyon where you can get bikes a lot cheaper than what a shop would want for the same quality bike and they are build very well. I ride a YT bike, which is also a direct to consumer brand, but MTB only.

And keep in mind, if you want to ride over some gravel every now and then you would want a CX or Gravel bike, instead of pure road. The difference is that the CX and gravel have wider tires and a more relaxed geo, with the gravel being the most relaxed in geo and the one that can support the widest tires, often up to 40mm wide.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

well its lighter for one. but i will just warn that carbon is suseptible to direct shock damage. and it can then splinter. 

So if I’m going to do more downhill in future, or if I crash, it’s much better for aluminum? 

9 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

I would not trust $500 carbon bike frames.   I would rather focus on the shocks and suspension and brake system than frame material for this cost.

I’ve already got disc brakes and front shocks.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

well the two types of materials give very different ride qualities, the carbon will be stiffer and be a bit more efficient, but the steel will be softer and absorb some bumps/vibrations making it a more comfortable ride.

Also keep in mind it often isn't a good deal to build up your own bike from the ground up, because pre specced/build ones are generally quite a bit cheaper because the manufacture gets some huge discounts on parts, so unless you have like 50% of the parts already, then I would advise you to get a prebuild/specced one. There are Direct to consumer brands like Canyon where you can get bikes a lot cheaper than what a shop would want for the same quality bike and they are build very well. I ride a YT bike, which is also a direct to consumer brand, but MTB only.

And keep in mind, if you want to ride over some gravel every now and then you would want a CX or Gravel bike, instead of pure road. The difference is that the CX and gravel have wider tires and a more relaxed geo, with the gravel being the most relaxed in geo and the one that can support the widest tires, often up to 40mm wide.

Thank you for the information. I’m not looking for a gravel or CX bike, preferably a hard tail frame, so I can just replace the frame. 

 

Most of the trails I ride on are not quite gravel, or sometimes there.

 

I think for my budget, I’m looking around on second-hand websites, and that would probably give me the best deal, just to buy an old second hand full suspension bike, or hard tail. 

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, floofer said:

So if I’m going to do more downhill in future, or if I crash, it’s much better for aluminum? 

only if you plan on crashing, its just something one should know, Carbon fiber isnt super brittle, but it is one of its weaknesses. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

only if you plan on crashing, its just something one should know, Carbon fiber isnt super brittle, but it is one of its weaknesses. 

I think I’ll look into aluminum. Would most full-suspension bikes be aluminum if I’m looking at buying second-hand?  

[LaFemmeEnVert]

21 minutes ago, floofer said:

I think I’ll look into aluminum. Would most full-suspension bikes be aluminum if I’m looking at buying second-hand?  

It depends, likely alloy or alu frames are more readily available than carbon frames.  Also price.

 

I would carefully inspect the frame if I’m buying second hand before paying.

[GoldenLag]

13 minutes ago, floofer said:

I think I’ll look into aluminum. Would most full-suspension bikes be aluminum if I’m looking at buying second-hand?  

Have no idea, i just happen to know some weaknesses of carbon fiber

[Dackzy]

3 hours ago, floofer said:

Thank you for the information. I’m not looking for a gravel or CX bike, preferably a hard tail frame, so I can just replace the frame. 

 

Most of the trails I ride on are not quite gravel, or sometimes there.

 

I think for my budget, I’m looking around on second-hand websites, and that would probably give me the best deal, just to buy an old second hand full suspension bike, or hard tail. 

yeah go used for a bike if you have a low budget and don't go with a used full suspension with a 500 usd budget, you will only get really bad bikes, a hardtail MTB would be much better when it comes to the actual parts used on it and keep an eye out for hidden costs, like maybe the fork needs a service, or a bearing is in need of a change and so on

[zassou]

5 hours ago, floofer said:

Most of the trails I ride on are not quite gravel, or sometimes there.

 

I think for my budget, I’m looking around on second-hand websites, and that would probably give me the best deal, just to buy an old second hand full suspension bike, or hard tail. 

i would say you should get a name brand aluminium bike from giant, specialized or trek rather than a custom built one. pay attention to things people usually replace, like saddle, pedals, seat post, forks, wheels and sometimes, gear set. always check official specs for sure. even it's a "hot rod", ask the owner if they're still keeping the stock parts. always try the bike first, and adjust seat post height when necessary.

 

stay away from those heavily modded ones, like replace hydraulic fork with hard, carbon one.

 

things you can keep: cycling computer, lights, plastic accessories like chain guard and shimano pedals. other tools like hex keys, pump, spare tyres and tubes.

things you should not keep: used body gears: helmet, shorts, shoes and other wearable tech. clipless pedals except shimano's. stupid bling like led spoke light and decals.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

As someone who rides and restores 90s MTBs, I have seen plenty of alu frames develop stress fractures (as a result of metal fatigue) after about 20 years whereas steel (hi-ten, Reynolds, cro-moly etc) tends to just last forever ... or at least as long as you can keep rust at bay.   

 

As for carbon, 90s carbon frames tended to crack real fast.  The technology has evolved quite a bit since then, but so has the manufacturers' tendency to cut corners and design everything to be "just good enough", so I still read a lot of stories about frames cracking within months of purchase. 

I don't trust carbon for anything structural.  So no frames, forks, seat posts, stems, handlebars etc.

 

[Rodinski]

Compared to aluminum, you get about half the weight for the same performance.  Compared to steel you're looking at about 5x that.  Both bikes would more than likely be designed under the same parameters, so, you're only saving weight.

 

Do you know the grade of the carbon fibre?  That's how'd you know the "quality" of it.

[kelvinhall05]

Honestly, unless you're doing super hardcore shit or have a lot of money to throw around, just get an aluminum frame. I tried out two bikes, both being similar sizes and both having aluminum frames, except one (the one I bought) had a lot more stuff on it (dual suspension, 8 gears instead of 7, dual disc brakes). I definitely felt the weight difference, but my point is that I think the "accessories" will be a bigger weight difference than the frame material.

[JZStudios]

My dad started, owned and operated Titus bikes, and back in the 90's they were selling out as fast as they could make them for $6,000 a piece.

If you want light, go aluminum for cheap, titanium for expensive.

If you want strength, go steel for cheap, titanium for expensive.

 

Carbon is a stupid material to make bikes out of, especially trail bikes. Carbon as a material doesn't handle shock too well, and it's brittle. We've gone around and passed out business cards at bike shops to do repairs. About every other month there's a $6000 carbon bike with a broken frame in for repairs, usually in the same location where any metal would never break. Even roadies that just dropped their bike or fell in a slightly awkward way cracked the frame.

So, again, aluminum is actually a lot better than you'd think, and isn't much heavier than carbon. Titanium is the best though, but that's minimum a $6,000 bike for a decent one.

[mr moose]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:24 AM, floofer said:

But I’m wondering how much weight will this save me?

Go and pick one up and you'll wet your knickers.  A good carbon fibre bike can be lifted with your little finger (well I can anyway).  How much speed that gains you is upto the gears and your health of course, but the reality is the less weight your pulling in thee frame the faster you can go.