An open letter to Linus: We at /r/linux_gaming are happy to help

[QXC]

It would be incredibly time consuming, but I think it'd be interesting to see some folk go "under cover" with regards to getting support for linux issues, particularly with gaming. Getting help from the community on a whole for linux related issues can be a big mixed bag, especially when you're starting out. Nothing kills motivation to learn faster than getting canned responses blasted at you by a bot wielding fiend on IRC because no one is willing to take the time to try to get you to the point where you can correctly elaborate your problem.
 

Although thankfully a lot of that is irrelevant with web search nowadays. And the community is better... but linux is a learning experience for most (unless you grew up with it like most folk did windows) and I think the quality of that learning experience dictates people's opinions more than the technical aspects of the OS.

[BlueGoliath]

20 hours ago, GodofGrunts said:

That is incorrect.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1504-QHXN-8366

 

Steamworks is supported back to 12.04, but not the client.

 

The Github clearly says 12.04 but regardless, 16.04 was the latest LTS less than a year ago. It's availability in Ubuntu's repos has NOTHING to do with whether or not Steam itself supports it. By that logic, Steam wouldn't be in Arch Linux's repos but in fact it is.

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by wkdpaul
cleaned up

[TetraSky]

1 hour ago, QXC said:

It would be incredibly time consuming, but I think it'd be interesting to see some folk go "under cover" with regards to getting support for linux issues, particularly with gaming.

Oh yeah, I fully expect them to run into a bunch of asshat just telling them to RTFM instead of actually helping when they ask a perfectly normal question for a newb to have... because according to some elitists out there, you're essentially expected to read an entire wiki's worth of documentation before asking a question when your search didn't give any positive results (which is often due to how Linux is in general)

[Traches]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

If you use Linux, fine. But pls do not oversell the thing and be honest about it, its Problems and disadvantages, for Consumers, especially the Gamers.

Overall I agree with your post, but I'd like to point out that Windows isn't good, it's just familiar and we'll supported. It has plenty of quirks and problems, and I'm not convinced that anybody actually likes it.

 

Also, privacy and security matter and you compromise both by using a proprietary OS. They're not usually particularly important to any one individual in a practical, daily sense, but when we in aggregate lose them the implications become horrifying. Society as a whole would benefit from an open source OS replacing windows as the default.

 

It's chicken and egg, nobody uses Linux because hardware and software support sucks, and developers don't support Linux because nobody uses it. That's why I'm so stoked about proton-- gamers tend to be on the nerdy side, tech support for friends and family, often tired of windows and looking for a better option. I know I fell into that boat for a long time. If proton is what finally pushes Linux into viability for that group of people, maybe it snowballs from there.

 

Gaming on Linux right now is objectively worse than windows. You should still do it.

 

[aaronfranke]

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

The biggest problems that Linux has is no way to easy install a driver. If you're new ot Linux, you can easily destroy your installation with the try to get the GPU Driver running.

Nvidia:

1. (optional, but required for Proton) Add the repository for the latest Nvidia drivers with "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers"

2. Open the "Additional Drivers" GUI menu and click on one of the drivers.

3. Enter your password, wait, reboot.

4. You're done.

 

No matter what, do not download graphics drivers with a web browser, this is the #1 noob mistake.

 

AMD:

1. You're done. No setup required. Some games might not work well though, unlike with Nvidia on Linux.

[Stefan Payne]

18 minutes ago, Traches said:

Overall I agree with your post, but I'd like to point out that Windows isn't good, it's just familiar and we'll supported.

No, Windows IS good, it just has some problems due to some bad business decisions M$ took.

Overall it is pretty good.

 

18 minutes ago, Traches said:

It has plenty of quirks and problems, and I'm not convinced that anybody actually likes it.

See, that's the Problem I have with the Linux people.

Instead of admitting the Problems THEY have, they point fingers at other people and say "but they are way way worse".

Yes, we know that. We are aware of that. So stop pointing fingers and start fixing your stuff!

 

I'm doing my part in pointing out some of the Problems I see with Linux. If you are involved, you try your best to fix that stuff.

18 minutes ago, Traches said:

Also, privacy and security matter and you compromise both by using a proprietary OS. They're not usually particularly important to any one individual in a practical, daily sense, but when we in aggregate lose them the implications become horrifying. Society as a whole would benefit from an open source OS replacing windows as the default.

STOP IT!
Stop pointing fingers!

FIX your stuff.

We are aware of that.

But there is no alternative.

18 minutes ago, Traches said:

It's chicken and egg, nobody uses Linux because hardware and software support sucks, and developers don't support Linux because nobody uses it.

No, its because Linux is not a good Desktop Operating system, it is very lacking in this area and people are moving back to Windows because of that - including me for example.

 

Also there is shit like Gnome 2 -> 3.

WHY, just WHY?!
If you want something different, make it and call it different or allow the Users to 

But that Gnome 2 -> 3 shit is worse than M$ Windows 8.

And the worst part:
There is no way for the users to hold the developers accountable.

While there is for Windows: Just don't buy it and ask to not have it.

That worked with Windows 8 and forced M$ roll it back a bit and make the Windows 10 Start Menu.

And on Linux? Just fragment the developers further and give birth to 2 new Desktop Enviroments -> MATE (based on Gnome2) and Cinnamon (Gnome3).

Yeah. Awesome...

 

So that makes how many Desktop Enviroments? 6 Bigger ones??

Gnome, Mate, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, LXDE/LXQT. + a ton of smaller ones like Enlightenment.

18 minutes ago, Traches said:

Gaming on Linux right now is objectively worse than windows. You should still do it.

That isn't the Problem.

And I don't care too much about that.

For example this PC I'm writing these lines from does not need no Windows but still has it because the Desktop Enviroments are just not that great and have some problems...

 

At least the Integration of File Sharing got better. But then again: Why the hell are there 10 different file managers??
Why can't they collaborate a bit more and make one or two things awesome than like 4 half hearted things??

 

An OSX Like Interface has its place - on a MAC, with the usual like 3-10 Apps you usually use on a MAC.

Its totally misplaced on a PC with at worst hundreds of programms installed...

[Stefan Payne]

9 minutes ago, aaronfranke said:

Nvidia:

1. (optional, but required for Proton) Add the repository for the latest Nvidia drivers with "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers"

2. Open the "Additional Drivers" GUI menu and click on one of the drivers.

3. Enter your password, wait, reboot.

4. You're done.

 

No matter what, do not download graphics drivers with a web browser, this is the #1 noob mistake.

 

AMD:

1. You're done. No setup required. Some games might not work well though, unlike with Nvidia on Linux.

And if you are an early adopter of a new Graphics card??

Or any other thing...

[aezakmi]

Hey OP @dragodin ask there if someone found a way to run Fallout 4, League Of Legends and The Witcher 3 on Linux, it can be any Linux but Mint or Lubuntu (not the standard Ubuntu since it hogs too many resources) is preferred.

 

edit: I cant' do it since I got permanently banned.

Edited March 14, 2019 by aezakmi

[dragodin]

4 hours ago, aezakmi said:

Hey OP @dragodin ask there if someone found a way to run Fallout 4, League Of Legends and The Witcher 3 on Linux, it can be any Linux but Mint or Lubuntu (not the standard Ubuntu since it hogs too many resources) is preferred.

 

edit: I cant' do it since I got permanently banned.

Hi @aezakmi, you can run witcher 3 with steam proton https://www.protondb.com/app/292030

LoL is currently broken on Debian/Ubuntu based distros, I recommend Manjaro https://lutris.net/games/league-of-legends/

Fallout 4 has mixed results with steam proton https://www.protondb.com/app/377160

[dragodin]

Sounds good, @GabenJr!

Also Manjaro is the way to go, I've used it for over a year on my desktop PC. I play all the steam native grames, proton games, Heroes of the storm and WoW on Manjaro.

[Helly]

5 hours ago, aaronfranke said:

Nvidia:

1. (optional, but required for Proton) Add the repository for the latest Nvidia drivers with "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:graphics-drivers"

2. Open the "Additional Drivers" GUI menu and click on one of the drivers.

3. Enter your password, wait, reboot.

4. You're done.

 

No matter what, do not download graphics drivers with a web browser, this is the #1 noob mistake.

 

AMD:

1. You're done. No setup required. Some games might not work well though, unlike with Nvidia on Linux.

Thank you for this post.... It PERFECTLY demonstrates EVERYTHING wrong with linux and why it will NEVER be viable for the average user.

• EVERY "help post"/"tutorial" on linux starts the same way, open a terminal.....
• Don't download with a browser.... seriously? People are used to that, so that's what they will do....

Want people to move to linux.... FIX YOUR SHIT.

 

as far as im concerned... as long as the above applies, linux can GTFO.

 

ps. Yes i'm pissed, i've wanted to switch to linux LONG LONG ago, but every time i've done it, it just takes to long to get up to speed and actually be able to get shit done.... not worth it for me, and i imagine lots and lots of other ppl.

[dragodin]

@Helly I understand your point of view, happened the same things to me many times but it was like 10 years ago. With Linux the philosophy changes: you are not an user, you are part of the community.

 

Also the terminal is awesome and easy to use. The fact that people are used to browse the internet to download random stuff from random site is OLD and DANGEROUS. We need centralized, tested & trusted repositories, it's 2019, not 1999.

 

Linux is everywhere, whether you like it or not. Desktop is next.

 

P.S.: if you need help, come to our forums linux4noobs, linuxquestions and linux_games are happy to help

[Traches]

Disclaimer: I haven't personally tried any of these games. Which distro shouldn't matter too much; Mint

 

Fallout 4: https://www.protondb.com/app/377160

 

Looks like you need to install some special audio packages and make some launch tweaks. Getting a mod manager running may be a bit of an ordeal, but it's doable.

 

League of Legends looks to be a bit more difficult. You can run it under wine, or possibly as a 'non steam game' with steam play. https://www.unrankedsmurfs.com/blog/lol-linux

 

Witcher 3 looks pretty good, many say it worked right out of the box with no tweaks. https://www.protondb.com/app/292030

 

[mr moose]

Oh MY GODODODODDD!!!  this thread is literally mostly new members with 3-7 posts (about 20 hours as members average) having a bitch feast about how good linux is...

 

Please, the best way to help (if people actually need it) is to be polite.  If all you want to do is play my nerd penis is smaller than yours then find another forum, we have enough of that here already .

[leadeater]

Probably a good idea to dial back the rant levels from 11 to 1 or 2, productive conversions can't happen when your yelling at each other. Be passionate not aggressive. Everyone here is representing their community, that you may want others to join, make it look like it's a community worth joining and that will welcome them, the way they are.

[Helly]

3 hours ago, dragodin said:

Also the terminal is awesome and easy to use. The fact that people are used to browse the internet to download random stuff from random site is OLD and DANGEROUS. We need centralized, tested & trusted repositories, it's 2019, not 1999.

well glad to see you know its 2019, but why are you saying stuff from the 1980's is awesome and the future? We have GUI's for a reason. It makes things easier and for most things faster (i look forward to seeing your post of how commands are faster, blabla. It is for you, for 90% of other people its not).

 

Also, how is downloading a driver from nvidia's site dangerous?

I don't want to punch in and remember terminal commands all day. I did that pre win95 and was real happy when i didn't have to anymore.

 

It's nice that there is a whole community happily living in the computer stone age but most of us have been well beyond that for a long time now, it's time to join us here.

 

The reality of the situation is that linux is for tinkerers and windows for the regular people who want to get things done. Linux ppl want the regular ppl to switch but they refuse to change anything and just want people to learn their way of doing things. Somehow they just can't understand that it's never going to happen. So the linux market share is going to stay the same for a long long time.

The only way to get people off windows is probably going to be a whole new OS that's the right mix of linux and windows.

[Ashleyyyy]

3 minutes ago, Helly said:

It's nice that there is a whole community happily living in the computer stone age but most of us have been well beyond that for a long time now, it's time to join us here.

i'm not disagreeing GUI's shouldn't exist. but the terminal is still a very powerful tool for some things. wanna install 50 programs in one go? it can do it. troubleshoot a machine without having to boot a GUI? it can do it. 

 

it shouldn't be the main way we interface with our computers, but it should still be there for those of us that want to use it. 

[Helly]

1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

i'm not disagreeing GUI's shouldn't exist. but the terminal is still a very powerful tool for some things. wanna install 50 programs in one go? it can do it. troubleshoot a machine without having to boot a GUI? it can do it. 

 

it shouldn't be the main way we interface with our computers, but it should still be there for those of us that want to use it. 

I'm not arguing the terminal should die and be gone....

I'm trying to say linux relies to much on the terminal. Every single tutorial/guide i have ever seen of linux starts with the line: "Open up a terminal". It's just the wrong approach to get the normal PC ppl to use linux.

It's amazing to see linux pretty much has an app for everything, but they all need to be installed through a command. If it even works at least 80% of the time (in my experience at least) there is either no GUI at all or it just doesn't work and the readme explains everything with commands in a terminal.

Maybe (or probably) it's just my experience thats been terrible but hopefully you get my point here...

[Ashleyyyy]

Just now, Helly said:

I'm trying to say linux relies to much on the terminal. Every single tutorial/guide i have ever seen of linux starts with the line: "Open up a terminal". It's just the wrong approach to get the normal PC ppl to use linux.

that's because the guides are made by linux pro's that do everything via commandline. 

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, Helly said:

Thank you for this post.... It PERFECTLY demonstrates EVERYTHING wrong with linux and why it will NEVER be viable for the average user.

• EVERY "help post"/"tutorial" on linux starts the same way, open a terminal..... 

That's because describing how to do things in the terminal is much easier and safer, even on Windows.

 

 

On 10/7/2018 at 10:28 PM, LAwLz said:

I believe the reason why people often recommend the CLI ways of doing things is because it is much more efficient and less risk of someone screwing up. 

If someone wants to do X, and there is a CLI and a GUI way of accomplishing it I will often recommend the CLI way. Why? 

Because if I explain the CLI way I just have to say "copy and paste this command into the terminal .........".

If I explain it the GUI way I have to explain which program to start, then which menu option to pick, describe how the options window should look like to then explain which buttons to press, and where to type in things. Not to mention that in a version or two, the menus might look different and the guide I wrote might be completely useless.

 

Describing how to do something with a GUI:
1) Takes a much longer time to describe. You need to look up where everything is, think of words to describe the look of some buttons and their position, etc.

2) Takes a much longer time for the user to do, since they have to read, look, read, look, click, read, look, and so on.

3) Has a dramatically higher risk of the user clicking the wrong button, thus screwing something up.

4) The guide has a very high chance of getting outdated and misleading in the near future if an update to the program changes the look of something. Let's say you need to click 10 buttons to do something which can be done with 1 line of code. If any of those 10 buttons changes in an update, the guide will be really misleading and may result in people changing the wrong things.

 

Compare that to descibing how to do something in the CLI. It's just:

1) Write this.

2) You're done

 

 

And just because someone suggests using the terminal does not mean it is the only way of doing things.

[Bananasplit_00]

22 hours ago, razdiel said:

The fact that Linux just works is not an understatement, but it does depends on the point of view:

-if you are targeting a daily-driver to open emails and browse the web and such yes.

-If you are targeting server stuff yes.

-If you are targeting gaming....uh...no...it doesn't...it needs some tricks here and there but it has improved A SHITTON over the last months.

 

Gaming could greatly be a lot better if the choice to install proprietary (and recent drivers) were to some extent slightly easy (like being recommended at startup and you click a button and done), DXKV/Lutris coming included as well as all dependencies and such....

this is right on with my experience works geat as a desktop OS and plays games well once you go through the troubble of getting Wine, DXVK and Lutris set up right. 

[Traches]

9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, Windows IS good, it just has some problems due to some bad business decisions M$ took.

Overall it is pretty good.

Subjective opinion I guess; I got tired of it after many years of using it. Also I don't like being spied on, and I don't like the fact that windows answers to Microsoft first, and the user second. That's a deep, fundamental, unfixable problem. Linux's problems are fixable.

 

9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

See, that's the Problem I have with the Linux people.

Instead of admitting the Problems THEY have, they point fingers at other people and say "but they are way way worse".

Yes, we know that. We are aware of that. So stop pointing fingers and start fixing your stuff!

Nobody says Linux is perfect. Literally all of us know that there are huge problems with Linux, because we've dealt with them personally. Look at how popular Brian Lunduke's "Linux Sucks" videos are-- we laugh because we can relate. We're saying they're worth it, because Linux brings some huge advantages that you don't find on proprietary operating systems.

9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

I'm doing my part in pointing out some of the Problems I see with Linux. If you are involved, you try your best to fix that stuff.

STOP IT!
Stop pointing fingers!

FIX your stuff.

We are aware of that.

But there is no alternative.

No, its because Linux is not a good Desktop Operating system, it is very lacking in this area and people are moving back to Windows because of that - including me for example.

You're yelling. Why are you yelling?

 

I'm not ignoring the usability issues. I'm not saying Linux is the ultimate operating system for all use cases on all hardware. For example I'd never suggest that a pro photographer switch to Linux, because the Adobe suite doesn't run on it and the FOSS alternatives aren't up to scratch. It sucks but it's true. The same is true for gaming-- if you're building a dedicated gaming rig, and your only concern is gaming performance and convenience, you'd be better served by Windows.

 

My point is that there's more to the story than convenience. I'm making mountains out of molehills here a bit, but take ads in the start menu for example: They demonstrate that Microsoft is willing to actively and deliberately harm its users when it benefits them. And that's only one example; who knows what information it sends back to the mothership? With forced automatic updates, even if it respects your privacy now, there's nothing to say that can't change any day. You, and the community at large, has no way to review new changes to ensure they are in your best interest.

 

The fundamental difference between a proprietary operating system and an open source one is control. When you run Linux, you are 100%, completely in control of absolutely every aspect of your system. Should you choose to, you can allow or deny absolutely every single thing that your computer does, every entity it communicates with, and every bit of information it sends to them. Even if you don't care to learn those things, others in the community do and you can benefit from their efforts. That is simply not true of Windows, and no amount of yelling changes that.

 

Security and privacy are crucially important issues. At the risk of being overly dramatic, have you read 1984? A big theme in the book was a complete and total lack of privacy at all times. A lot of Big Brother's power came from complete control of information, both as a consumer and a producer. The biggest instrument of this was the 'telescreen', which is basically a tv with a camera and a microphone. People could be monitored at any time, without their knowledge. Smartphones are basically the same thing these days.

 

Obviously that book is fiction, but it's well regarded for a reason. Right now, your computer, your phone, and your google account are sharing with strangers a volume of detailed information that you would never voluntarily provide even to your close friends and family. These people don't have your best interest at heart, and they arguably know more about you than even you do yourself. They are simply trying to profit from this information by any viable means, and that's before you even get into the terrifying implications of a government with access to this amount of information with only a subpoena (and often not even that!) The potential for abuse is breathtaking, but because it happens quietly in the background nobody cares.

 

The only reasonable solution to this problem is free and open source software. If nobody can read the source code, nobody knows what it does. There shouldn't be black box programs spying on people from their own devices, it's immoral and harmful.

 

You're completely right that Linux can be an absolute pain in the ass sometimes, trust me I know. It's still worth it.

 

 

9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

Also there is shit like Gnome 2 -> 3.

WHY, just WHY?!
If you want something different, make it and call it different or allow the Users to 

But that Gnome 2 -> 3 shit is worse than M$ Windows 8.

And the worst part:
There is no way for the users to hold the developers accountable.

While there is for Windows: Just don't buy it and ask to not have it.

That worked with Windows 8 and forced M$ roll it back a bit and make the Windows 10 Start Menu.

And on Linux? Just fragment the developers further and give birth to 2 new Desktop Enviroments -> MATE (based on Gnome2) and Cinnamon (Gnome3).

Yeah. Awesome...

 

Linux is not a single, unified product delivered by a single organization. It's many groups of people building parts-- this has the benefit of not answering to anyone, and giving the end user an outstanding array of options to choose from in every aspect of their system, but it also complicates support and leads to fragmentation. There's no single piece of software you are forced to use; if you don't like something, literally anything, you can change it. That's not true on windows. Fragmentation sucks in some ways, but in other ways it's truly amazing.

 

9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

So that makes how many Desktop Enviroments? 6 Bigger ones??

Gnome, Mate, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, LXDE/LXQT. + a ton of smaller ones like Enlightenment.

That isn't the Problem.

And I don't care too much about that.

For example this PC I'm writing these lines from does not need no Windows but still has it because the Desktop Enviroments are just not that great and have some problems...

 

At least the Integration of File Sharing got better. But then again: Why the hell are there 10 different file managers??
Why can't they collaborate a bit more and make one or two things awesome than like 4 half hearted things??

 

An OSX Like Interface has its place - on a MAC, with the usual like 3-10 Apps you usually use on a MAC.

Its totally misplaced on a PC with at worst hundreds of programms installed...

 

Yeah, unnecessary forking is an issue. But having many different choices can be a good thing.

 

3 hours ago, Helly said:

Thank you for this post.... It PERFECTLY demonstrates EVERYTHING wrong with linux and why it will NEVER be viable for the average user.

• EVERY "help post"/"tutorial" on linux starts the same way, open a terminal.....
• Don't download with a browser.... seriously? People are used to that, so that's what they will do....

Want people to move to linux.... FIX YOUR SHIT.

 

as far as im concerned... as long as the above applies, linux can GTFO.

 

ps. Yes i'm pissed, i've wanted to switch to linux LONG LONG ago, but every time i've done it, it just takes to long to get up to speed and actually be able to get shit done.... not worth it for me, and i imagine lots and lots of other ppl.

You're also very angry. I'll say a few things:

•  It's getting better. It's far from perfect, some things blow windows out of the water, others are a huge pain in the ass, but overall it's miles better than it was even a few  years ago.
• You can download things from a browser just fine on Linux. You don't lose that capability, you just get a better option: Download from a repository where an independent 3rd party has reviewed and signed off on the software as not being malware.
• The terminal really isn't that bad. It's just different from what you're used to. If you can build a PC, you can learn a little bash.

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Oh MY GODODODODDD!!!  this thread is literally mostly new members with 3-7 posts (about 20 hours as members average) having a bitch feast about how good linux is...

 

Please, the best way to help (if people actually need it) is to be polite.  If all you want to do is play my nerd penis is smaller than yours then find another forum, we have enough of that here already .

Seems to me like the anti-linux guys are the angry ones. I'm not here to say everyone and their mother should ditch Windows, I'm here to say that Linux is a viable option for many use cases, rises to the dizzying heights of "better than windows" in some cases (programming mostly), and those use cases are expanding as time goes on. Also, personally I don't like being surveilled by my own computer.

[Ashleyyyy]

10 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

An OSX Like Interface has its place - on a MAC, with the usual like 3-10 Apps you usually use on a MAC.

Its totally misplaced on a PC with at worst hundreds of programms installed...

you don't even wanna know how much crap i install on OSX. often times way more than on a linux or windows machine. 

 

to estimate, on a Mac i usually have about 50 programs, on Linux about 40 and on Windows 5. 

[BlueGoliath]

21 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That's because describing how to do things in the terminal is much easier and safer, even on Windows.

 

 

 

Describing how to do something with a GUI:
1) Takes a much longer time to describe. You need to look up where everything is, think of words to describe the look of some buttons and their position, etc.

2) Takes a much longer time for the user to do, since they have to read, look, read, look, click, read, look, and so on.

3) Has a dramatically higher risk of the user clicking the wrong button, thus screwing something up.

4) The guide has a very high chance of getting outdated and misleading in the near future if an update to the program changes the look of something. Let's say you need to click 10 buttons to do something which can be done with 1 line of code. If any of those 10 buttons changes in an update, the guide will be really misleading and may result in people changing the wrong things.

 

Compare that to descibing how to do something in the CLI. It's just:

1) Write this.

2) You're done

 

 

And just because someone suggests using the terminal does not mean it is the only way of doing things.

 

And you have no idea what the command does as a Linux newbie. As far as you know you could be bricking your system. In fact, using Ubuntu PPAs CAN break your system. 

 

Generally GUIs provide descriptions, tooltips, or some other kind of hints as to whats going on and the settings they allow you to change shouldn't brick the system. Yes, man pages exist for like 90% of things but not everything nor do users even necessarily know that. GUIs tend to also offer safer, sanitized user input(even if it isn't immediately obvious to the user). 

 

Linux's GUIs are a mixed bag with many being fragmented, poorly designed, and look awful at times.

 

KDE specifically looks like some chinese company tried making a Windows knockoff DE and left DE developer settings enabled. Its icons look like something made for a elementary school OS(see profile picture in KDE as an example). It's performance(in my experience on Nvidia hardware) is really bad with lots of rendering bugs(Maybe it's using Wayland, I don't know). It's impossible to find the more practical settings in the settings app because of it's general poor design and -again- unnecessary low level settings that clog up the UI. The UI scaling is way larger than it should be. The look and feel tries so hard to look modern but like the icons just looks bad.

 

Personal opinion. Apparently a lot of people do like KDE but as someone who really cares about modern looks and good GUI design I despise it.

 

Other DEs have half a dozen smaller settings applications for various things. Having two settings applications -one for advanced and one of non advanced settings- is perfectly fine IMO but the literal half a dozen settings applications that some(most?) Linux DEs currently have is nuts. There isn't a reason to have settings applications with only 8 settings in it. Even worse some of these settings applications have generic names which make it hard to tell them apart. As part of a tutorial I was following to install local custom Look and Feel in KDE I searched for "Advanced Settings" and it brings up "Advanced Settings" and "Advanced Settings(2)" and they are two different applications. Like, what?

 

IMO the only good Linux DE in terms of GUI design is GNOME 3 and even that has issues. Performance being a well known and criticized pain point even by the Linux community. The removal of the app tray being another. No fractional scaling support(though that supposedly changes with the new 3.32 release). Overall though, if Linux was ever to go mainstream GNOME 3 would be the DE being used. It's subjectively the best Linux has to offer.

 

Quote

Also the terminal is awesome and easy to use. The fact that people are used to browse the internet to download random stuff from random site is OLD and DANGEROUS. We need centralized, tested & trusted repositories, it's 2019, not 1999.

 

Not all the software in a distros repo works nor up-to-date. I tried installing CodeBlocks in 16.04(IIRC) and the program gave an error message on launch. I then went to the developers site and added their Ubuntu repo and upgraded the package from it where then it worked as expected. How exactly is that any different than just downloading an .exe and letting the app update itself(common in Windows) for security? Either way you're going to the internet to find the repo and then trusting that they don't try doing anything malicious.

 

If you're answer is "because the source is available" my response is even self updated applications outside of the distro repos can be open source. Maybe it's easier to find or to comb the source by using standardized platforms and tools through but is it *really* that much better if at all from a security perspective?

 

Also, live system updating. Very very very very very bad.

[XR6]

It's a shame to see this thread (previously) derailed by fighting and trolling, there was potential for an actual discussion on the subject.. 

 

That aside, I think it'd be good to see another video on Linux Gaming. Linux has come quite far in the past few years with game support, so much so that I'm considering moving back to Linux again.

I'm just not sure if Linus would really be interested in making another Linux video. Same goes for the viewerbase; I'm not sure whether or not the viewers would want to watch that type of thing.

Edited March 14, 2019 by 1kv
Thread was cleaned by mods so edited my post a bit