Apple announces iPhone Xs, Xs Max, and Xr

[79wjd]

 

4 hours ago, xtroria said:

Samsung is even worse than apple, the nuclear bomb 7 came out, started detonating, samsung pulled them back from customers hands who have paid for them and said "tough luck"

There wasn't much else they could have done regarding the Note 7.

[D13H4RD]

9 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

 

There wasn't much else they could have done regarding the Note 7.

They had little choice.

 

They fucked up. They recalled the device and issued refunds. There wasn't much they could do. They could just sweep it under the rug but then it would be Company Implosion 101

[Commodus]

6 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

They had little choice.

 

They fucked up. They recalled the device and issued refunds. There wasn't much they could do. They could just sweep it under the rug but then it would be Company Implosion 101

To me, there were two main issues:

 

It started with the design: Samsung stuffed an overly large battery inside the phone and didn't have adequate testing measures to ensure it was safe.  This strikes me as a very Samsung kind of design flaw -- its obsession with specs led it to do something inherently risky.

 

And while recalling the phone was the right thing to do, Samsung completely botched the recall process.  It had that brief initial recall where it was clear it hadn't really identified the cause and just wanted to resume selling the phone as quickly as possible.  If you recall a phone, you don't put it back on sale until you're absolutely sure you know what the problem was... full stop.

 

To tie this back into the main discussion: it's always odd to hear people claim that Apple doesn't care about its customers when you see Samsung and other brands treating people like garbage on the daily.  Not that Apple doesn't have its problems -- it's legendary for refusing to directly acknowledge an issue until it has a fix or replacement program in place.   However, I'd argue that a company that offers software updates for 4-5 years and dedicates a significant section of its store to free service appointments (albeit ones where there's a chance it'll cost you money in the end) cares about its customers to some degree.

[TechyBen]

It was a fault in the battery manufacturing. They got hit hard, with 2 vendors making 2 separate errors (one on fold distance, one on edge separation IIRC).

Apple made similar mistakes pushing out LCDs before quality control was perfect. difference being, LCDs going yellow on iMacs/iPhones does not hit the news as much, in either quantity (number of units sold vs Samsung for this one event) or explosiveness.

 

Apple get way more designed faults, or choices in faults (flexing boards and bad solder), IMO.

 

"Samsung treat people like garbage", they do entire line recalls, entire replacement systems, and offer repairs. Less than what Apple do most of the time.

 

Also, 99% of the stores that offer "free" apointements are there literally to sell to you. Not to give you "service".

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

It was a fault in the battery manufacturing. They got hit hard, with 2 vendors making 2 separate errors (one on fold distance, one on edge separation IIRC).

Apple made similar mistakes pushing out LCDs before quality control was perfect. difference being, LCDs going yellow on iMacs/iPhones does not hit the news as much, in either quantity (number of units sold vs Samsung for this one event) or explosiveness.

 

Apple get way more designed faults, or choices in faults (flexing boards and bad solder), IMO.

 

"Samsung treat people like garbage", they do entire line recalls, entire replacement systems, and offer repairs. Less than what Apple do most of the time.

They do entire line recalls WHEN it's an actual health hazard (which Apple would likely have done as well); they would never have reacted the same way if it was anything more benign. 

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, 79wjd said:

They do entire line recalls WHEN it's an actual health hazard (which Apple would likely have done as well); they would never have reacted the same way if it was anything more benign. 

Proof on that?

We see Apple keyboards, iphone boards/screens/batteries (note it was not explosive, but it was a undervoltage battery problem!). They do get recalls... once pressured to.

 

Samsung, well, I personally do not know of any. So you can put me right here. Are there systematic faults they will not replace/repair under warranty, or that need group/product recalls on?

[Drak3]

5 hours ago, xtroria said:

Samsung is even worse than apple, the nuclear bomb 7 came out, started detonating, samsung pulled them back from customers hands who have paid for them and said "tough luck"

They tried fixing the issue then recalled and refunded every phone they could, without lawsuits entering the equation.

 

Whereas Apple would have said that you were charging your phones wrong.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

However, I'd argue that a company that offers software updates for 4-5 years and dedicates a significant section of its store to free service appointments (albeit ones where there's a chance it'll cost you money in the end) cares about its customers to some degree.

Problem is that I find it inconsistent. 

 

In the US, getting a battery replacement usually take about 30 minutes. Over here, it's a week with no loaner because of some mumbo jumbo. 

 

Granted, it's an AASP, but you would think that anyone with an Apple logo on it would at least try to match the actual Apple. 

 

And I don't think it was because Samsung didn't know what went on. It was likely because Amperex got a sudden influx of orders in such a short span of time with a really tight deadline that a ton of defective batteries went out the door. 

[DrMacintosh]

14 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Granted, it's an AASP, but you would think that anyone with an Apple logo on it would at least try to match the actual Apple. 

This is their policy even at Apple. If an Apple store is “high traffic and high volume”, like one in say a mall, then they are more then likely going to do 30min-1hour battery replacements. Those stores, especially the Apple ones, have the parts they need and the machines they need all in the back.  

 

AASPs on the other hand, especially the “low traffic and low volume” ones, can have turnaround time can be up to a week. Apple Stores and AASPs are granted 5days to repair your device because they might need to order parts, send your device off to a Store/facility to get access to a special machine, might run into complications, and might even have to replace your entire device if they fuck up. Louis Rossmann has done a ton of videos talking about why he won’t become AASP certified because of how shitty Apple is to you unless you are a big store and absolutely adhere to Apples standards. (Like it’s legit bad, so bad that they mandate where your parking lot should be)

 

Most repairs happen same day, the next most common is overnight repair, and the rare ones are more than that. It really does depend on where you live though. 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Proof on that?

We see Apple keyboards, iphone boards/screens/batteries (note it was not explosive, but it was a undervoltage battery problem!). They do get recalls... once pressured to.

 

Samsung, well, I personally do not know of any. So you can put me right here. Are there systematic faults they will not replace/repair under warranty, or that need group/product recalls on?

Those aren't recalls, those are replacement programs.  Recalls usually kick in when there's a safety hazard; a MacBook Pro keyboard isn't going to catch fire.

 

Just looking at the Galaxy S9, there are multiple known issues that have cropped up.  Yellow display tinting; dead touch zones; numerous issues that manifest in hardware but may be fixable through software.  But, just like Apple, these issues don't affect most users and don't rise to the level of a recall.

 

We have to learn to distinguish between hearing a lot about an issue and the actual magnitude of an issue.  Samsung, LG and numerous other brands have Apple's issues and more, they just don't get that much publicity... and again, the actual scope of the problem is usually small.  Issues like the Note 7 fiasco are rare because that was both a widespread problem and serious enough that you couldn't simply ask people to get their devices fixed when it was convenient.

[Commodus]

21 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Problem is that I find it inconsistent. 

 

In the US, getting a battery replacement usually take about 30 minutes. Over here, it's a week with no loaner because of some mumbo jumbo. 

 

Granted, it's an AASP, but you would think that anyone with an Apple logo on it would at least try to match the actual Apple. 

 

And I don't think it was because Samsung didn't know what went on. It was likely because Amperex got a sudden influx of orders in such a short span of time with a really tight deadline that a ton of defective batteries went out the door. 

The lack of top-tier support outside of major countries is a concern, to be fair.  I just think it's important to remember that Apple at least has that option... if a Samsung phone breaks in most countries, you may still have to go through a third-party repair shop or mail it in.

 

One thing's for sure on the Note 7: Samsung should have handled that much, much better than it did, both from a design standpoint and reacting to the initial reports.

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

you may still have to go through a third-party repair shop or mail it in.

3rd party is so sketch. I mean I watch Louis do board repairs and I cringe sometimes  

 

Usually his repairs are fine, but running jumper wires across the board is just something else, lol. 

[TechyBen]

19 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Those aren't recalls, those are replacement programs.  Recalls usually kick in when there's a safety hazard; a MacBook Pro keyboard isn't going to catch fire.

 

Just looking at the Galaxy S9, there are multiple known issues that have cropped up.  Yellow display tinting; dead touch zones; numerous issues that manifest in hardware but may be fixable through software.  But, just like Apple, these issues don't affect most users and don't rise to the level of a recall.

 

We have to learn to distinguish between hearing a lot about an issue and the actual magnitude of an issue.  Samsung, LG and numerous other brands have Apple's issues and more, they just don't get that much publicity... and again, the actual scope of the problem is usually small.  Issues like the Note 7 fiasco are rare because that was both a widespread problem and serious enough that you couldn't simply ask people to get their devices fixed when it was convenient.

Do LG and Samsung not get as much coverage... or offer better replacement/repair programs?

 

I'm honestly curious. Everyone says "They are worse", but backs it up with no actual evidence. The actual repair/replacement/recall on Apple products is documented, and I can check it (% of users affected, if Apple accept repairs or fob them off). For Samsung/LG do they do the same, or better or worse?

 

Your link, is the same you would get for any device, Apple of Samsung, car or washing machine. Those are not actual "this product has a 25% failure rate" or "this product has a design fault". Where as, we can point to those of Apple and Samsung, and Apple has way more I know of, Samsung had the Note 7 Battery.

 

[edit]

Hahahahaha, Nearly all those Samsung problems in the link you gave are software, or mention "go get a replacement". Like, totally different attitude than Apple, and I don't see one that is "this model has a bad speaker connector/chip solder/board flex/CPU bug". It's like "dolby Atomos buggs, Android buggs, etc". That would be me complaining about Face ID, and you refute it with the above link to Samsung software bugs. 

 

Show me hardware faults, systematic ones. I can find a MASSIVE list of iPhone/Macbook ones (granted, iPad and Mac desktop are near perfect). Apple specifically pushes those two product lines too far.

[D13H4RD]

40 minutes ago, Commodus said:

The lack of top-tier support outside of major countries is a concern, to be fair.  I just think it's important to remember that Apple at least has that option... if a Samsung phone breaks in most countries, you may still have to go through a third-party repair shop or mail it in.

 

One thing's for sure on the Note 7: Samsung should have handled that much, much better than it did, both from a design standpoint and reacting to the initial reports.

Thankfully, we do have official service points for Samsung phones, and my experience has usually been quite alright. My dad spilled coffee on his Galaxy A5. While the phone still worked, the capacitive buttons were useless. Sent it in and they fixed it up and also plopped in a new battery since the original one was starting to swell.

 

And yeah, the Note7 recall should've definitely been handled better. I'd still have mine if that were the case.

[Nena Trinity]

10R is ok the rest is a scam!

[Morgan Everett]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

The lack of top-tier support outside of major countries is a concern, to be fair.  I just think it's important to remember that Apple at least has that option... if a Samsung phone breaks in most countries, you may still have to go through a third-party repair shop or mail it in.

 

One thing's for sure on the Note 7: Samsung should have handled that much, much better than it did, both from a design standpoint and reacting to the initial reports.

Even in "major countries", if you count Britain in that. I've needed service from Apple on several previous occasions, and every contact has been with a "premium reseller", and every experience I've had has therefore (?) been either poor or terrible (and I've seen others treated similarly). You may be surprised by how few Apple stores are out here. 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Do LG and Samsung not get as much coverage... or offer better replacement/repair programs?

 

I'm honestly curious. Everyone says "They are worse", but backs it up with no actual evidence. The actual repair/replacement/recall on Apple products is documented, and I can check it (% of users affected, if Apple accept repairs or fob them off). For Samsung/LG do they do the same, or better or worse?

 

Your link, is the same you would get for any device, Apple of Samsung, car or washing machine. Those are not actual "this product has a 25% failure rate" or "this product has a design fault". Where as, we can point to those of Apple and Samsung, and Apple has way more I know of, Samsung had the Note 7 Battery.

 

[edit]

Hahahahaha, Nearly all those Samsung problems in the link you gave are software, or mention "go get a replacement". Like, totally different attitude than Apple, and I don't see one that is "this model has a bad speaker connector/chip solder/board flex/CPU bug". It's like "dolby Atomos buggs, Android buggs, etc". That would be me complaining about Face ID, and you refute it with the above link to Samsung software bugs. 

 

Show me hardware faults, systematic ones. I can find a MASSIVE list of iPhone/Macbook ones (granted, iPad and Mac desktop are near perfect). Apple specifically pushes those two product lines too far.

But does Apple actually have "way more" systemic faults, or are you just convinced it has way more because its failures make the news?  That's the thing -- Apple gets a lot of coverage because it's high-profile and focuses on higher-end products.  A $200 entry-level Samsung phone?  Like it or not, it's just not going to garner as much attention if it's flawed.

 

Issues like permanent display tint are systemic, that's the point -- some of those are software-fixable, but not all of them are... and you shouldn't have to grapple with some of the bugs that did exist.  My speakers shouldn't sound like trash because someone at Samsung couldn't do basic audio QA testing.

 

Also, if you want examples of other companies' failures... LG's boot loop issue, anyone?  That persisted for multiple device iterations and didn't get much coverage outside of Android fan sites.  Also, Samsung recalled Galaxy Note 4 batteries.  And Google?  Well, the Pixel 2 XL had multiple issues early in its production run (particularly with displays), and to some extent did for months longer.  I don't have the time to search for every possible flaw, but I've definitely seen a number of brands grapple with problems that aren't just individual unit glitches.

 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, Morgan Everett said:

Even in "major countries", if you count Britain in that. I've needed service from Apple on several previous occasions, and every contact has been with a "premium reseller", and every experience I've had has therefore (?) been either poor or terrible (and I've seen others treated similarly). You may be surprised by how few Apple stores are out here. 

Yeah, as many Apple stores as there are, it's not what I'd call completely comprehensive.  In North America we're fortunate in that the stores are common.

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Samsung recalled Galaxy Note 4 batteries. 

That one wasn’t entirely the fault of Samsung, however, as they involved counterfeit batteries given out by AT&T

[TechyBen]

33 minutes ago, Commodus said:

BA $200 entry-level Samsung phone?  Like it or not, it's just not going to garner as much attention if it's flawed

A $200 phone is not held to the same standard as a $600 (to now $1200!) phone! :shrug:

Oranges and Apples.

 

"Issues like permanent display tint are systemic"

OLEDs get burn in [edit] Appears to be software again. It's a softer light in an adaptive sensor mode... poor option I guess, but Samsung chooses eye softening colour profiles over a notch.  Consumers choose to love or hate it. Software bug or "working as intended" as Apple would put it.  [/eidt]. Did Apple have systematic release of yellow screens? Did Samsung? Is quality control higher or lower at Apple or Samsung?

 

When I worked in retail, we'd get the failure rates of devices sent back to us (was household, not mobile). Cheap products failed more often, unless they were used less. So sometimes, the consumer over used a cheap product. Sometimes it was built poorly. All manufactures hit around 5% failure rate. No exceptions. Sometimes the best "spoken up" companies, had the highest failure rates.

 

As said. Back it up with numbers. I have those for Apple: 

https://www.apple.com/support/iphone6plus-multitouch/

https://www.apple.com/uk/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/

https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/

https://www.apple.com/uk/support/macbookpro-videoissues/

(30 second search )

 

Now, I don't know if Samsung does the same? I know their Whites goods subsidy does... that's a WHOLE different department though.

 

[Edit]

I do agree, there seem to be problems with LG and their OS/software/Chips booting. So that is another company that gives people the silent treatment, and as you say, because they are smaller, gets no lawsuits.

 

So does that excuse Apple? We admitted they are as bad as LG, not that they are better! 

[Commodus]

38 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

A $200 phone is not held to the same standard as a $600 (to now $1200!) phone! :shrug:

Oranges and Apples.

 

"Issues like permanent display tint are systemic"

OLEDs get burn in [edit] Appears to be software again. It's a softer light in an adaptive sensor mode... poor option I guess, but Samsung chooses eye softening colour profiles over a notch.  Consumers choose to love or hate it. Software bug or "working as intended" as Apple would put it.  [/eidt]. Did Apple have systematic release of yellow screens? Did Samsung? Is quality control higher or lower at Apple or Samsung?

 

When I worked in retail, we'd get the failure rates of devices sent back to us (was household, not mobile). Cheap products failed more often, unless they were used less. So sometimes, the consumer over used a cheap product. Sometimes it was built poorly. All manufactures hit around 5% failure rate. No exceptions. Sometimes the best "spoken up" companies, had the highest failure rates.

 

As said. Back it up with numbers. I have those for Apple: 

https://www.apple.com/support/iphone6plus-multitouch/

https://www.apple.com/uk/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/

https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/

https://www.apple.com/uk/support/macbookpro-videoissues/

(30 second search )

 

Now, I don't know if Samsung does the same? I know their Whites goods subsidy does... that's a WHOLE different department though.

 

[Edit]

I do agree, there seem to be problems with LG and their OS/software/Chips booting. So that is another company that gives people the silent treatment, and as you say, because they are smaller, gets no lawsuits.

 

So does that excuse Apple? We admitted they are as bad as LG, not that they are better! 

Ah, I didn't say that Apple was necessarily better than others, but that's the thing... we don't really know.  We rely on media coverage and let our own preconceptions colour what we think is happening.  And it's easy to confuse the media representation and anecdotal experiences with evidence when it's really just something that might corroborate better data (if it was available).  It doesn't let Apple off the hook, but we also have to shake off that notion that Apple device owners are wailing in agony... no, they're not.  They're fine.

[TechyBen]

As said. In the retail I worked in, for certain products, we could tell the returns rate. The faults bad enough the product failed.

Branding was not what people perceived. People would swear blue in the face, brand A was better, because the name was known. Even if it had the same or more returns than brand S.

 

Apple put the "perfection" brand forwards in the media as much as customers push back at the faults. They do make silly design choices though IMO. Samsung has done curved screens, because the end goal is curving the edges 180 and getting zero bevel... so it's iteration. Sensors behind the LCD is iteration to a undisturbed screen front.

 

...A notch has no end goal, except failure.

[Commodus]

3 hours ago, TechyBen said:

As said. In the retail I worked in, for certain products, we could tell the returns rate. The faults bad enough the product failed.

Branding was not what people perceived. People would swear blue in the face, brand A was better, because the name was known. Even if it had the same or more returns than brand S.

 

Apple put the "perfection" brand forwards in the media as much as customers push back at the faults. They do make silly design choices though IMO. Samsung has done curved screens, because the end goal is curving the edges 180 and getting zero bevel... so it's iteration. Sensors behind the LCD is iteration to a undisturbed screen front.

 

...A notch has no end goal, except failure.

I understand, but that's still anecdotal!  Now, if you were aware of what was happening across repair shops, you'd have a clearer picture.

 

The notch is fine.  It's meant to maximize usable screen real estate without eliminating important components or creating an unusually tall device.  There don't appear to have been significant notch-specific repair issues, so I'd say it's mission accomplished.

[Guest]

My view (because no one asked)

1) The iPhone Xr is severely lacking - and won’t be an upgrade for me (No 3D Touch?)

2) New eSim is a great idea.

3) There were meant to be four new phones coming out, and we only saw three, however

4) There is another upcoming event- remember they didn’t release Mojave just yet, this could hint to one more iPhone this year, along with the release of the new iPad.

[NF-F12]

For me it all hangs on whether they use super low frequncy PWM on the display similar to the X or increase it.