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Hyperwerk

Caselabs is shutting down.

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17 minutes ago, mr moose said:

More than likely,   it really seems like their business was simply not a sustainable proposition.  I'd like to know if extending that credit to their clients was the only way they could secure more sales, because it does look that way. 

Other thing is an 80% cost increase means you should have avenues to find replacement suppliers. At that level of cost increase, you should be able to find a US-based CnC shop to make your parts for less. Might be something of a deal in deliveries, but it's a lot better than going out of business. Which suggests it really was the dependency upon a small number of larger buyers that kept the business viable.

 

Plus, looking through the website, they've got a pretty dang large selection of different cases. Possibly a larger stable than a bunch of case producers you'd know the names of. It's also very possible they were just over-extended in all directions and all that it really took was a few things running into rough spots to take them under.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Other thing is an 80% cost increase means you should have avenues to find replacement suppliers. At that level of cost increase, you should be able to find a US-based CnC shop to make your parts for less. Might be something of a deal in deliveries, but it's a lot better than going out of business. Which suggests it really was the dependency upon a small number of larger buyers that kept the business viable.

 

Plus, looking through the website, they've got a pretty dang large selection of different cases. Possibly a larger stable than a bunch of case producers you'd know the names of. It's also very possible they were just over-extended in all directions and all that it really took was a few things running into rough spots to take them under.

Either way you split the breakdown, an 80% cost increase doesn't come out of nowhere.


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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

More than likely a single source supplier. Which means if they went bankrupt, Caselabs was toast anyway.

If a single source upped their cost by 80% I would be betting money they are also now filling for bankruptcy,  because their main/only client just went down the gurgler.


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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If a single source upped their cost by 80% I would be betting money they are also now filling for bankruptcy,  because their main/only client just went down the gurgler.

Good chance, along with that supplier being in the Chinese space, which means there could be a whole explosion of companies that recently got wiped out in the Chinese tech space we haven't heard about yet. Maybe something that Gamer's Nexus would have more contacts to find out about.  Either way, this probably isn't the end of this story.

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2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

which means there could be a whole explosion of companies that recently got wiped out in the Chinese tech space we haven't heard about yet

maybe, but I highly doubt it...? their economy is pretty self-sustaining (like most cases there gets most of their customers domestically) o_o I don't have any numbers for that though, so something for me to look out for too

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10 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Good chance, along with that supplier being in the Chinese space, which means there could be a whole explosion of companies that recently got wiped out in the Chinese tech space we haven't heard about yet. Maybe something that Gamer's Nexus would have more contacts to find out about.  Either way, this probably isn't the end of this story.

To me the whole thing smells like bad fish, too bad it's hard to get good information on this. Every article is a copy paste of the last one and there is no real explanations or breakdowns of where the alleged cost increases are.   Being a private company I don't think we'll ever know.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

maybe, but I highly doubt it...? their economy is pretty self-sustaining (like most cases there gets most of their customers domestically) o_o I don't have any numbers for that though, so something for me to look out for too

As I've mentioned in a few discussions on the topic, the Chinese economy is actually quite weak, but discussions about the topic get messy really fast. It's a bit hard to explain how an economy can, by modern standards, be both growing and collapsing at the same time. China has >4x the population than the USA but an economy that's smaller by a bit. That means the vast, vast majority of that market doesn't have the disposable income anywhere close to Western standards. As far as we can tell, domestic demand growth has been quite low for a while.

 

Chinese stats are almost all proxies, as the government is more blatant about lying than most others, but it's rather possible China has been in negative growth in the sectors that would matter from a modern perspective for several years. Yet the numbers would be positive because of the massive generation of economic activity when someone goes from a super poor farmer into just a poor farmer. Western countries haven't had to deal with this in living history, but the economic effect is massive across the board. However, that also means an increase in the demand for food imports, not the sale of smartphones.

 

If you think of China as multiple countries, something like a mashup of Poland and Vietnam, economically, you get a better idea of what I'm talking about. The very poor regions are still progressing, but the high-end sectors seem pretty stagnant.  While China pays for massive amounts of propaganda, so people aren't looking at it, that's the reality of the situation. That's why the USA is acting the way it does. Trump has Xi by the balls and both parties know it. That's why it's all saying nice things to each other, publicly, while also taking directed actions against each other at every step. China is scraping for some form of leverage, but it's those Imports that are actually more of an issue for them than the exports. 

 

As an extremely important geo-strategic point, being a Net Food and Net Energy exporter means no one can really push you around. China is massive Net importer of both. Subject all analysis of actions to that reality.

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

To me the whole thing smells like bad fish, too bad it's hard to get good information on this. Every article is a copy paste of the last one and there is no real explanations or breakdowns of where the alleged cost increases are.   Being a private company I don't think we'll ever know.

Once they file all of the bankruptcy paperwork, more will come out. Odds are they were in a fragile financial situation and something kicked them over the edge.

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12 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

@Taf the Ghost I mean particularly PC cases (maybe I shouldn't have phrased "economy" into the sentence) ._. but yeah

Ah, yeah, lol. I gave a lot longer answer because of the Economy bit. However, Caselabs wasn't in the normal PC Parts realm, so it's possibly some more boutique places that doesn't effect much we'd normally see is going through a run of trouble.

 

Also, given China, it's possible the 80% increase had more to do with someone trying to raise funds since they got caught in some corruption scheme.

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Their fb comment section, about this, is blocked off. Can't read them. Was able to a few days ago.


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1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

Their fb comment section, about this, is blocked off. Can't read them. Was able to a few days ago.

oh shit. gonna have to look up any googleable personnel under caselabs just for reference in case I get to spot them anywhere else in the industry (or maybe even not-cases at this point)

 

EDIT: meant it in a "oo nice this guys used to do cases in caselabs" way ._.

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I bet the "default of large account" and them not having that much to go on is a biggest reasons for this than the tariffs, but the tarrifs didn't make it any easier ofc.


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On 8/10/2018 at 9:42 PM, Taf the Ghost said:

Some of Case Labs stuff would have been hit; some would not have been. (The Tariff run actually affects petroleum products a lot more.) It's 25% Import tax, but that usually translates to about a 10% end-user cost increase. They also *haven't gone into effect yet*.

 

The real problem would appear to them being an extremely fragile company. They lost 1 account and their production costs go up 80% from a 25% tariff that isn't active yet. This means a lot of bad decisions were made over time, and they simply got crunched by events when they weren't stable enough to handle them. One could also say that their business model required production cost arbitrage out of China. 

 

This won't be the last company to go under like this, but it also explains why this is happening. The entire Cost Structure of some of these industries is based off getting products at prices that aren't actually viable for the industry. China has been one Recession away from causing this chain of events anyway, it's just being kicked off by the USA.

This pure BS. 

 

- First off, the Tarriffs are in effect as of June 1: https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summary/232-tariffs-aluminum-and-steel

 

- Second, the Tariffs have created a shortage, which heavily drives up the cost of Steel and Aluminum, because production (the more expensive production at that) can't meet demand - caselabs clearly mentions this. 

 

- Caselabs is a subsidiary of a company that creates military grade enclosures. A scenario in which the company is creating enclosures for a foreign military under a large contract, whom then cancels the procurement due to political fallout, is easy to see sinking a smaller company. Many companies that work for large contracts need those large contracts to succeed in order to survive. 

 

- If you know anything about economics and comparative advantages, these tariffs make no sense. Saying "getting products at prices that aren't actually viable" is a blatant lie when the only reason they're not viable is because of artificial inflation from tariffs. Otherwise the price point is actually viable. Making products more expensive because you feel like it isn't a smart economic policy.

 

- You are right that this isn't going to be the end. I know another family business that is seeing over a 20% increase in their product, producing stadium seating, thanks to these tariffs. Not to mention their production includes a lot of injection molding, thus the increase in steel is effecting the entire product my more than "just the 25% increase". This is for domestic sales too, for international sales they're seeing an even greater increase. As materials need imported, then products need exported. All of which are under tariff now. If nothing else, there's going to be a new wave of production leaving the US because of these tariffs. 

 

TLDR, supporting stupid economic policies is stupid. 

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On 8/10/2018 at 6:13 PM, DrMacintosh said:

Damn, those Tariffs really did a number on them. Who would have thought simply slapping a tariff on something without any economical analysis before hand could do so much damage? A lot of US steel companies are hurting from them too. 

I feel like a lot of small specialty companies will be shutting down to these tariffs. Does not affect the big companies as much as the small ones. RIP CASELABS.   


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6 hours ago, Fredy5 said:

This pure BS. 

 

- First off, the Tarriffs are in effect as of June 1: https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summary/232-tariffs-aluminum-and-steel

 

- Second, the Tariffs have created a shortage, which heavily drives up the cost of Steel and Aluminum, because production (the more expensive production at that) can't meet demand - caselabs clearly mentions this. 

 

- Caselabs is a subsidiary of a company that creates military grade enclosures. A scenario in which the company is creating enclosures for a foreign military under a large contract, whom then cancels the procurement due to political fallout, is easy to see sinking a smaller company. Many companies that work for large contracts need those large contracts to succeed in order to survive. 

 

- If you know anything about economics and comparative advantages, these tariffs make no sense. Saying "getting products at prices that aren't actually viable" is a blatant lie when the only reason they're not viable is because of artificial inflation from tariffs. Otherwise the price point is actually viable. Making products more expensive because you feel like it isn't a smart economic policy.

 

- You are right that this isn't going to be the end. I know another family business that is seeing over a 20% increase in their product, producing stadium seating, thanks to these tariffs. Not to mention their production includes a lot of injection molding, thus the increase in steel is effecting the entire product my more than "just the 25% increase". This is for domestic sales too, for international sales they're seeing an even greater increase. As materials need imported, then products need exported. All of which are under tariff now. If nothing else, there's going to be a new wave of production leaving the US because of these tariffs. 

 

TLDR, supporting stupid economic policies is stupid. 

You should read the whole thread before calling someone's opinion BS.  He was talking, as I did, early in the thread about another tariff that hadn't been introduced because at that stage there was no actual information regarding which tariff they were referring to and how much it actually had an impact.

 

Later on in this thread we both discuss the steel and aluminium tariffs that where introduced in June,  we also discussed at length the possible reasons why even the June tariff had or should have had little to no impact on their business.  You would also note that it seems no one in this thread (who has added something constructive to the discussion) is in favor of the tariffs, we all agree they are likely not going to net an advantage for the US, however blaming tariffs for caselabs, a company that has been in it for 50years I might add, falling apart is like blaming a 25% increase in gas tax for westcoast customs going broke.


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13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You would also note that it seems no one in this thread (who has added something constructive to the discussion) is in favor of the tariffs, we all agree they are likely not going to net an advantage for the US, however blaming tariffs for caselabs, a company that has been in it for 50years I might add, falling apart is like blaming a 25% increase in gas tax for westcoast customs going broke.

U wot? Caselabs has existed for 50 years? So 1968? Where did you get that, and how did you think that saying a company is 50 years old would strengthen your point. If anything it makes the point about tarrifs more credible. Aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure that's not true.

 

Westcoast Customs doesnt repair and make cars from Gas.. *ultra facepalm*

 

Edit: I think you're referring to

Quote

Since 1971 California Fabrication Company has been building enclosures for electronic, military, medical, and industrial applications.

They didn't make computer cases until 2010 by their own admission and to treat them as the same company is misleading but my point stands. A company that exists for 50 years going under makes the tarffis look bad not good.

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The Mercury S8 was the only case I wanted to upgrade to from my HAF XB Evo, and I've been planning it for a long time. Now that I'm so close to finally having the means, Caselabs suddenly dies.

... I am not okay with this.

 

I guess I could look at Protocase, or maybe just look into making my own, because no other company seems to make such a well-built and clean horizontal motherboard ATX case. The entire goddamn industry seems oriented directly against what I want, and the one small company that satisfied my niche perfectly now no longer exists.

I am really not okay with this.


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5 hours ago, Swatson said:

U wot? Caselabs has existed for 50 years? So 1968? Where did you get that, and how did you think that saying a company is 50 years old would strengthen your point. If anything it makes the point about tarrifs more credible. Aside from the fact that I'm pretty sure that's not true.

 

Westcoast Customs doesnt repair and make cars from Gas.. *ultra facepalm*

 

Edit: I think you're referring to

They didn't make computer cases until 2010 by their own admission and to treat them as the same company is misleading but my point stands. A company that exists for 50 years going under makes the tarffis look bad not good.

Yes, since 1971, How did you come to the conclusion that the only part of their business they have experience form is making pc cases?  They have been around long enough to know how to deal with tariffs, they have been in business through tougher market climates than this tariff has introduced.  To say otherwise is naive.   


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Yes, since 1971, How did you come to the conclusion that the only part of their business they have experience form is making pc cases?  They have been around long enough to know how to deal with tariffs, they have been in business through tougher market climates than this tariff has introduced.  To say otherwise is naive.   

https://edgeup.asus.com/2015/qa-with-caselabs/

 

Quote

Kevin – CASELABS – CaseLabs is a branded name under California Fabrication Company (Calfab). Calfab was started by my grandfather back in 1971 and is a sheet metal fabrication business. Yup, that makes me third generation! Aside from cases, we make everything from commercial lighting enclosures to massive tape library cabinets. “CaseLabs” started on overclock.net as a hardware vendor in January 2011. Our web store launched September of 2011.

The whole interview actually points to some pretty clear points that look like significant weaknesses. First glaring one is still being in California. They haven't gotten the memo that they aren't wanted there.

 

On the issue of Tariffs, think of it like dentistry. No one really says, "I had a great day! I went to the dentist.". They're a necessary aspect to defending an economy from other actors looking to pillage a place. It's always easier to steal wealth than build it. 

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4 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

The Mercury S8 was the only case I wanted to upgrade to from my HAF XB Evo, and I've been planning it for a long time. Now that I'm so close to finally having the means, Caselabs suddenly dies.

... I am not okay with this.

 

I guess I could look at Protocase, or maybe just look into making my own, because no other company seems to make such a well-built and clean horizontal motherboard ATX case. The entire goddamn industry seems oriented directly against what I want, and the one small company that satisfied my niche perfectly now no longer exists.

I am really not okay with this.

Same here. The options for horizontal case layout are pretty slim and have just got slimmer. I was looking at the HAF XB Evo or ThermalTake Core X5 or X9.

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6 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

https://edgeup.asus.com/2015/qa-with-caselabs/

 

The whole interview actually points to some pretty clear points that look like significant weaknesses. First glaring one is still being in California. They haven't gotten the memo that they aren't wanted there.

 

On the issue of Tariffs, think of it like dentistry. No one really says, "I had a great day! I went to the dentist.". They're a necessary aspect to defending an economy from other actors looking to pillage a place. It's always easier to steal wealth than build it. 

On top of that, it doesn't even matter if we agree with tariffs or not, they come and go in economies and the business that survives is the business that accepts that fact and works around it.   We can argue that governmental policies of all shapes and sizes have their impact, some for the better and some for the worse.  If your in business you plan and make allowances for those things.  I know this because I ran my own business for 15 years, I ran my business through the introduction of the GST, the abolishment of sales tax, the abolishment of several deductible business expenses including changes to fringe benefits.  You see it coming and you adjust your business accordingly.  This has little to do with tariffs and more to do with a dying business.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

On top of that, it doesn't even matter if we agree with tariffs or not, they come and go in economies and the business that survives is the business that accepts that fact and works around it.   We can argue that governmental policies of all shapes and sizes have their impact, some for the better and some for the worse.  If your in business you plan and make allowances for those things.  I know this because I ran my own business for 15 years, I ran my business through the introduction of the GST, the abolishment of sales tax, the abolishment of several deductible business expenses including changes to fringe benefits.  You see it coming and you adjust your business accordingly.  This has little to do with tariffs and more to do with a dying business.

Being CA-based strikes me as their biggest issue. There's a reason entire industries have been fleeing out of CA for the last decade. And spot prices for Steel & Aluminum are up, but most of their run up was in the first half of the year. Which puts me back to the discussion where they clearly were too dependent upon a few large contracts and something fell through. 

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On 8/12/2018 at 12:58 PM, mr moose said:

If a single source upped their cost by 80% I would be betting money they are also now filling for bankruptcy,  because their main/only client just went down the gurgler.

I would love to hire you as my accountant / analyst <3 Kappa

 

32 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Being CA-based strikes me as their biggest issue. There's a reason entire industries have been fleeing out of CA for the last decade. And spot prices for Steel & Aluminum are up, but most of their run up was in the first half of the year. Which puts me back to the discussion where they clearly were too dependent upon a few large contracts and something fell through. 

I know many that left CA to NV. 

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