FaceID is 2.5 years ahead of the competition

[captain_to_fire]

19 minutes ago, Sampsy said:

What about windows hello? 

Windows Hello works a lot like Face ID. Windows Hello uses Intel Real Sense camera. 

[Bananasplit_00]

what about makeup? will that screw with it? most of the people here that own the latest iphones are teenage girls with plastered on faces so whats going to happen to them? lol

[Asche]

From my understanding, Face ID will not require 100% of the face to recognize you (A bit like Touch ID don't need 100% of your finger to recognize you).

That is why even with a full motorcycle helmet, Apple claim that it will still work.

So make-up and other fancy head decoration should not be a problem for Face ID.

[suicidalfranco]

58 minutes ago, Sampsy said:

So is the author of the article just pretending windows hello doesn't exist?

Is that MS's blatant copy of FaceID?

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, Sampsy said:

So is the author of the article just pretending windows hello doesn't exist?

I think it’s possible that Apple may have surpassed Intel’s Real Sense camera used by Windows Hello that’s why they’re able to say that.

I have no idea how does the Intel Real Sense camera work or if it works the same way as Face ID. I have no idea where does Microsoft store all of that biometric data? Do they store it un the motherboard’s TPM chip or it’s just a file stored in the local storage? I know that Face ID works with two coprocessors, one is the Secure Enclave where they encrypt and store all biometric information and Neural Engine coprocessor which does machine learning computing. Even that, I don’t have much idea how that work other than it offloads machine learning computing away from the main processor cores. 

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, Tedny said:

People. why I need it if a fingerprint scanner exist? 

Because its doesn't exist on a iPhone anymore.

[Dylanc1500]

1 minute ago, Tedny said:

So, no reason to buy Iphone anymore? 

Yes, as this is a possibly more secure solution over touchID.

[Dylanc1500]

3 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Because its doesn't exist on a iPhone anymore.

It does on 8 and 8+.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, Tedny said:

So, no reason to buy Iphone anymore? 

That is up to you, I personally feel finger print is more secure and easier to use then facial recognition. I personally wouldn't buy a iPhone to begin with.

[PlayStation 2]

Am I the only one who'd much rather just put in a passcode?

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, Dylanc1500 said:

It does on 8 and 8+.

Ya I know but the push for FaceID is that it replaces TouchID.

[Guest]

n/a

[Dylanc1500]

1 minute ago, Tedny said:

you know.... it easier inactivate Simcard than, think this will protect your date( It Iphone, everything on cloud) 

I'm sorry, please do not take this the wrong way, as I mean no disrespect, but I didn't understand your response.

2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Ya I know but the push for FaceID is that it replaces TouchID.

They may keep it in the lower tiered phones for awhile. Who knows, there's a lot that's yet to be seen.

[TidaLWaveZ]

Years ahead of the competition

 

 

I couldn't find the one with Seinfeld music, so either imagine it or play it in another window.

[Dylanc1500]

Just now, Tedny said:

If your phone will be stoled, it easier disable you Simcard, than hope for security systems 

Disabling your SIM card will prevent them from using it on your network but will not stop them from having access within the device itself and be able to get whatever personal information you have on there. I have a SIM card within my laptop and if I disable that SIM card the laptop is still usable. You have to have a means of locking the device in the most secure way possible.

[Dylanc1500]

6 minutes ago, Tedny said:

oh, so, anyway, your security depends on how fast you can log in to your account after stealing 

No, it's a matter of how good your preventative measures are prior to someone acquiring your device. That why people put passwords on devices. All it takes is two seconds to hook an unlocked iPhone up to iTunes perform a back-up then take another iPhone and restore that device with that back-up at which point they have access to all of your data.

[DrMacintosh]

48 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

Years ahead of the competition

 

 

I couldn't find the one with Seinfeld music, so either imagine it or play it in another window.

Nice meme but if you read my original post, the phone clearly says “enter your passcode to enable FaceID” not “sorry we didn’t recognise your face” 

 

So no, FaceID didn’t fail to demo the first time. He uses it flawlessly the rest of the keynote. 

 

 

Facts are hard.

[TidaLWaveZ]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

Nice meme but if you read my original post, the phone clearly says “enter your passcode to enable FaceID” not “sorry we didn’t recognise your face” 

 

So no, FaceID didn’t fail to demo the first time. He uses it flawlessly the rest of the keynote. 

 

 

Facts are hard.

It wasn't an argument, it was a joke.

 

 

When someone makes fun of the company you're a fanboy of.

[FratStar]

7 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Of course every identical twin gets screwed over, since they have the same face but different fingerprints.

If the technology improves enough they will eventually be able to tell the difference since they do have minor facial differences. It'll be cool to see that degree of accuracy.

[Sniperfox47]

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

If Apples stats were to be believed, getting a duplicate fingerprint is 1:50,000 while getting a duplicate face is about 1:1,000,000

 

So pure numbers it’s already significantly more secure.

That's not really what those numbers mean. That's the chances of stumbling into someone and them being able to unlock your phone with their own face. It being a lower chance does nothing to prevent a targeted attack. KGI's inspection is promising but I still have my reservations.

 

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Not to mention you can’t fool FaceID by lifting a fingerprint off a glass or by making a mask or with a photo. 

That's the thing though. Is it really that hard to fool with a mask, assuming you have the right tools?

 

If you have the tools and techniques to lift and recreate a fingerprint in capacitive materials, would it really be harder to break this?

 

Once the phone comes out and someone disassembles it we know what IR camera it uses, and using that we know what resolution the camera has, and therefore what spatial resolution our mask needs at a given distance. We need to make it out of material that's about as IR reflective and heat conductive as skin, which wouldn't be particularly hard to make. And then we need to heat the mask to body temperature and make the eyes move.

 

Fooling the system, at least in theory, is not much harder than fooling Windows Hello. In fact it's probably easier due to size and power constraints meaning that it likely has a lower resolution and sampling frequency.

 

So then it becomes a question of how do you get the 3D model for your mask.

 

How do you get a fingerprint? You need to lift their print or get a decent resolution photo of their hand. Can you lift it off the phone itself? Maybe, but you'll likely just get a lot of smudged prints, at least for fingers other than the thumbs.

 

For a face though, most people's faces are all over the internet. Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat. For a lot of people, finding their face isn't very hard. And once you have their face, feed it into a trained neural network to create the model for you. Refine the model with additional photos to increase accuracy. Print off mould via a 3d printer. Use that to make your mask. Add animatronics for the eyes and eyelids and you're done.

 

The process for making the masks or creating the models might be harder initially than recreating a print was for touch ID, but once one person breaks it, anyone can.

 

And that's not even getting into the topic of just using an antagonistic AI with an ir-led array, since from what I heard, apple's using a neural network for part of the face identification.

[PlayStation 2]

2 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

-text-

I'd actually be willing to bet that FaceID is a more complex and likely secure system than Windows Hello is.

[Sniperfox47]

2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I'd actually be willing to bet that FaceID is a more complex and likely secure system than Windows Hello is.

Specifically referring to the facial recognition part of Windows Hello, Intel Realsense and FaceID are hardware wise pretty much identical...

• Ir dot emitter that lays out an array of infrared dots to map depth.
• High resolution Infrared camera to capture those dots and measure the warping in them to map depth.
• High resolution normal camera to capture colour
• Intel Realsense (and project Tango from Google) additionally have a black and white motion camera. The iPhone X opts to instead have a flood light. I'm assuming this is to get better pictures in dark light situations with it's smaller camera. Or it may not even be used with FaceID and just be for selfies.
• Intel Realsense stores the identity token in your motherboard's TPM. Apple instead used their secure enclave. Tango this far has not been used for facial recognition but will likely use TrustZone on ARM and TPM on x86 if they move that direction.
• Intel Realsense uses a GPU or dedicated vision coprocessor (Realsense Vision D4) to run 3d mapping algorithms. FaceID uses apple's new GPU, with currently unknown algorithms (believed to be a neural net).

Theres not really much difference between the two loadouts. If anything FaceID is at a disadvantage because of, again, size and power constraints.

 

We'll see how the two stack up when the X releases though.

 

 

[Dylanc1500]

6 minutes ago, Tedny said:

 

wait, protect system only buy you time to get log in and remove your stolen phone of access to your account 

Doesn't work that way, your iCloud account gets tied to the IMEI number on the phone. Which, through iCloud you can lock and wipe remotely. Plus, first they have to find a way to log into your phone, and getting passed the passcode, faceID, or touchID is not quickly possible, or not possible at all. More than enough time to disable the phone remotely and blacklist the IMEI number to where it's not usable with any carrier and will report as stolen any time it pings a cell tower or internet connection.

[mynameisjuan]

35 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I'd actually be willing to bet that FaceID is a more complex and likely secure system than Windows Hello is.

I would like to see the reasoning behind your statement of why its just better?

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, Dylanc1500 said:

Disabling your SIM card will prevent them from using it on your network but will not stop them from having access within the device itself and be able to get whatever personal information you have on there. I have a SIM card within my laptop and if I disable that SIM card the laptop is still usable. You have to have a means of locking the device in the most secure way possible.

While nothing is fool proof or 100% secure, iPhones have implemented file level encryption by default. To further secure the device, ten failed passcode attempts will trigger a secure wipe to deter brute force attacks considering that a four digit passcode only has 1 in 10,000 chances of being guessed. It strips off the encryption keys first then starts the wiping process, thus making the data inaccessible turning it into random zeroes and ones.

 

With the case of Face/Touch ID, after five failed biometric readings will demand the passcode. Same goes for not unlocking an iPhone for 48 hours or after a reboot. Then if 10 failed passcode attempts happen again, it will securely delete the iPhone’s contents. Also, one can remotely wipe an iPhone with iCloud’s Find My iPhone feature. Even if an iPhone is not connected to the internet at the moment it’s stolen, one can remotely send a locate, lock, or wipe command to the stolen iPhone so once the iPhone connects to the internet and receives a wipe command, it will start a secure wipe and all of its contents can’t be recovered.