7900X Coming In Hot?!

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, sazrocks said:

Is that still a thing? I thought everyone just put the heat spreader back on but with liquid metal or something.

Yeah, but if you remove the IHS, you will get a (admittedly small) decrease in temps

[tom_w141]

4 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

No, this is what they said: "If you don't want high temps, don't overclock because overclocking voids the warranty of your processor and increases CPU temperatures"

While that is the quote what it means is "we aren't going to fix it, if you want lower temps don't overclock your unlocked processor"

 

There is no reason for an unlocked processor to exist other than for the purpose of overclocking. We know that and Intel know that. That statement was a BS excuse and we all know it.

[PCGuy_5960]

6 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

While that is the quote what it means is "we aren't going to fix it, if you want lower temps don't overclock your unlocked processor"

 

There is no reason for an unlocked processor to exist other than for the purpose of overclocking. We know that and Intel know that. That statement was a BS excuse and we all know it.

*sigh* The 7700Ks issues can't be fixed, because of its die size. The X CPUs, I really don't know. They should have soldered them

[VagabondWraith]

Might give me a good reason for a custom loop!

 

I'll have my new system up and running next week. My Platinum power supply has been dying for a workout.

[Coaxialgamer]

Expected. By decreasing the amount of cache, the thermal density increases compared to traditional skylake. 

That makes it harder to cool. 

 

Tim doesn't help either 

[tom_w141]

16 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

*sigh* The 7700Ks issues can't be fixed, because of its die size. The X CPUs, I really don't know. They should have soldered them

I refuse to believe absolutely nothing could be done with the 7700K I'm not saying solder but the thermal issues with that cpu can vary in severity which indicates a quality control issue when the IHS is glued down, better control of the adhesive perhaps? Sorry should have made that clearer I know they can't solder them.

[tom_w141]

13 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

Might give me a good reason for a custom loop!

 

I'll have my new system up and running next week. My Platinum power supply has been dying for a workout.

The sad thing is a custom loop isn't that much better than a top end AIO really. Maybe 10 degrees and that is being generous. So that would be 85, unfortunately with these a delid will be compulsory for overclocking whether you have a custom loop or not.

[tom_w141]

13 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Expected. By decreasing the amount of cache, the thermal density increases compared to traditional skylake. 

That makes it harder to cool. 

 

Tim doesn't help either 

TIM = Thermal Interface Material solder is a type of TIM. So it's not that they used TIM it's that they used the same TIM they use on their mainstream product line on their high end enthusiast line with more cores, which is why they should be soldered.

[Coaxialgamer]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

TIM = Thermal Interface Material solder is a type of TIM. So it's not that they used TIM it's that they used the same TIM they use on their mainstream product line on their high end enthusiast line with more cores, which is why they should be soldered.

I know this, and it's what i meant. 

To correct for my laziness : the thermal paste (Tim) they used doesn't help to improve temps. 

[VagabondWraith]

7820X looks to have better thermals.

 

Quote

Straight out of the box (mainly thanks to the X299-A motherboard) our CPU just sat at 4GHz. As you can see below it was only using 1.069v too which we further reduced to 0.9v  and it still remained stable . Turning XMP on to our 3200MHz memory it did get a bit flakey but with everything in tow we did have the system running again at 1v. Yes one volt for 8 Cores and 16threads with 3200MHz memory 100% stable.

Quote

It speaks volumes about the quality of the Intel silicon yield that our i7-7820X was capable of 4.8 GHz at 1.22v and 5 GHz at 1.3v. ..... at these speeds we saw 72°C at 1.2v but at 1.3v temperatures got to unsafe levels in a matter of seconds.

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/intel_core_i7_7820x_skylake_x_review/3

[VagabondWraith]

3 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

The sad thing is a custom loop isn't that much better than a top end AIO really. Maybe 10 degrees and that is being generous. So that would be 85, unfortunately with these a delid will be compulsory for overclocking whether you have a custom loop or not.

My ambient temp is 16-17c year round. I'll be fine.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

The sad thing is a custom loop isn't that much better than a top end AIO really. Maybe 10 degrees and that is being generous. So that would be 85, unfortunately with these a delid will be compulsory for overclocking whether you have a custom loop or not.

If it is a TIM issue a custom loop will barely help. unless you have a extreme custom loop setup a top of the line AIO is just as good.

 

I can't keep my 4770k under 90c with a small OC on my loop but a 290x couldn't get above 60c after getting liquid from the CPU. I hate my 4770k and do not want another non soldered CPU

[tom_w141]

10 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

If it is a TIM issue a custom loop will barely help. unless you have a extreme custom loop setup a top of the line AIO is just as good.

 

I can't keep my 4770k under 90c with a small OC on my loop but a 290x couldn't get above 60c after getting liquid from the CPU. I hate my 4770k and do not want another non soldered CPU

That's what I said? Did you mean to quote @VagabondWraith?

[tom_w141]

5 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

My ambient temp is 16-17c year round. I'll be fine.

GN has a controlled test environment which includes the ambient. That lower ambient won't help you much if anything it will just take longer to heat up.

 

For example a heater takes longer to warm a cold room than a warmer one. Ambient will help but will only buy you time.

[tom_w141]

13 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

7820X looks to have better thermals.

 

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/intel_core_i7_7820x_skylake_x_review/3

Ignoring the 1st part because obviously undervolting is cooler. GN had theirs get too hot at 1.27. See temperature won't scale linearly with voltage it will reach a point and rise exponentially. The point for these seems to be around 1.27-1.3V so unless you have a golden chip that can remain under 1.27V it's going to be hot unless delidded. Actually this is troubling more so because it indicates this issue is not specific to the 10 core and affects the 8 core in the same way.  These really should have been soldered. Hopefully derbau3r will sell his delid kits at a good price  

 

EDIT: *looks at soldered and overclocked R7 running 1.39V whilst under 60 degrees on an AIO* thanks for soldering my chip AMD  

[OriAr]

3 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Ignoring the 1st part because obviously undervolting is cooler. GN had theirs get too hot at 1.27. See temperature won't scale linearly with voltage it will reach a point and rise exponentially. The point for these seems to be around 1.27-1.3V so unless you have a golden chip that can remain under 1.27V it's going to be hot unless delidded. Actually this is troubling more so because it indicates this issue is not specific to the 10 core and affects the 8 core in the same way.  These really should have been soldered. Hopefully derbau3r will sell his delid kits at a good price  

To be fair Delidding didn't really improve things that much.

der8bauer got the 7900X 10C cooler by delidding, not a big difference at all.

 

[tom_w141]

Just now, OriAr said:

To be fair Delidding didn't really improve things that much.

der8bauer got the 7900X 10C cooler by delidding, not a big difference at all.

 

It is a big difference when you consider 85 is faaaar better than 95... Also he delidded and overclocked further because he had gained more headroom didn't he? Or did he delid and only drop 10 degrees at the same OC?? If so that's bad news.

[PCGuy_5960]

21 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

I refuse to believe absolutely nothing could be done with the 7700K I'm not saying solder but the thermal issues with that cpu can vary in severity which indicates a quality control issue when the IHS is glued down, better control of the adhesive perhaps? Sorry should have made that clearer I know they can't solder them.

Yeah, the only thing that they can do is make sure that they don't use too much adhesive. (Although, they may be using too much adhesive intentionally, to protect the CPU from excessive clamping force) They can't use a different thermal paste, because even though they would offer better performance, they are not as stable/long lasting as Dow Corning

[OriAr]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

It is a big difference when you consider 85 is faaaar better than 95... Also he delidded and overclocked further because he had gained more headroom didn't he? Or did he delid and only drop 10 degrees at the same OC?? If so that's bad news.

Pushed the 7900X 200mhz more on the OC (5 instead of 4.8)

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, OriAr said:

To be fair Delidding didn't really improve things that much.

der8bauer got the 7900X 10C cooler by delidding, not a big difference at all.

Because he was using an AiO, you need a custom loop if you want to do some serious overclocking with the 7900X

[OriAr]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Because he was using an AiO, you need a custom loop if you want to do some serious overclocking with the 7900X

Definitely looks like it.

[VagabondWraith]

10 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Ignoring the 1st part because obviously undervolting is cooler. GN had theirs get too hot at 1.27. See temperature won't scale linearly with voltage it will reach a point and rise exponentially. The point for these seems to be around 1.27-1.3V so unless you have a golden chip that can remain under 1.27V it's going to be hot unless delidded. Actually this is troubling more so because it indicates this issue is not specific to the 10 core and affects the 8 core in the same way.  These really should have been soldered. Hopefully derbau3r will sell his delid kits at a good price  

 

EDIT: *looks at soldered and overclocked R7 running 1.39V whilst under 60 degrees on an AIO* thanks for soldering my chip AMD  

I'll live with it. Performance is what I'm looking for. Temperatures be damned.  Would it had been nice if they soldered? I suppose. But I refuse to settle for an inferior product for lower temps.  

 

The temps are a nice tradeoff for much higher performance (for me).

[tom_w141]

2 minutes ago, OriAr said:

Pushed the 7900X 200mhz more on the OC (5 instead of 4.8)

Then that is why he only gained 10 deg. If he had delidded and done nothing he'd have gained 20+ just like when you delid a 7700k

[PCGuy_5960]

24 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

7820X looks to have better thermals.

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/intel_core_i7_7820x_skylake_x_review/3

That's good news. I am probably going to get a 7800X or a 7820X and I don't want to delid

[OriAr]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

Then that is why he only gained 10 deg. If he had delidded and done nothing he'd have gained 20+ just like when you delid a 7700k

I believe he delidded it, got it 10C cooler, than pushed the OC 200mhz more and got the same temps before he delidded it.