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*UPDATE 2: AMD RX VEGA Spotted in TechPowerUp GPU Database (Supposed to launch April 28)

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Posted
1 hour ago, Agost said:

Oh come on AMD, still only 64 ROPs for all those stream processors? pls stahp

i dont think that info is confirmed yet, they probably just copied fury x numbers. although are there cards that don't conform to ROP=compute cores/64?

never mind i was confusing it with compute units :-|

it seems that the last time amd had more ROPs per Cu was with 290x, vega is bigger than expected, with might point to a higher than 64 rops 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Fetzie said:

It isn't. The clock speeds are too low and they reference the wrong chipset.

you do realize that it isn't unlikely that 4096 shaders running too hot at 1500 MHz... try say... 1250 to 1350, sure... 1500, not sure they are going to make it that high unless they want to make another 290X

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Posted

People... Look at more than performance! Price is a huge factor, who cares if it is just at or above 1080 performance... If it is $400 than who cares. (obvs random justfiable price picked)

 

 

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Posted
48 minutes ago, Prysin said:

you do realize that it isn't unlikely that 4096 shaders running too hot at 1500 MHz... try say... 1250 to 1350, sure... 1500, not sure they are going to make it that high unless they want to make another 290X

I don't mind by GPU sitting at 80-85C, though my 290 rarely touches 78C

 

 

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Posted
59 minutes ago, Prysin said:

you do realize that it isn't unlikely that 4096 shaders running too hot at 1500 MHz... try say... 1250 to 1350, sure... 1500, not sure they are going to make it that high unless they want to make another 290X

That's what AMD is know for, hotter, cheaper, and horrible drivers. The last part isn't so true anymore as Nvidia has joined aboard.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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17 minutes ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

People... Look at more than performance! Price is a huge factor, who cares if it is just at or above 1080 performance... If it is $400 than who cares. (obvs random justfiable price picked)

people (rightfully) want AMD to have a full lineup of GPUs from low end to highest end. That includes a 1080ti competitor. Historically and upto the 290x and then fury x days that's what they did. competed with NVidia at every price point, yes they lose sometimes. but they should have a product offering...

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1 minute ago, Humbug said:

people (rightfully) want AMD to have a full lineup of GPUs from low end to highest end. That includes a 1080ti competitor. Historically and upto the 290x and then fury x days that's what they did. competed with NVidia at every price point, yes they lose sometimes. but they should have a product offering...

The people saying this aren't even likely to be buying these products so I don't see why they care. AMD gave NVidia the high end market for a generation and has had the low end market for some time now. Only hope is this extra time theyve got better be put to good use... As I do plan on buying either Vega or a 1080

 

 

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1 hour ago, Prysin said:

you do realize that it isn't unlikely that 4096 shaders running too hot at 1500 MHz... try say... 1250 to 1350, sure... 1500, not sure they are going to make it that high unless they want to make another 290X

I don't think it works that way.

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3 hours ago, cj09beira said:

i dont think that info is confirmed yet, they probably just copied fury x numbers. although are there cards that don't conform to ROP=compute cores/64?

never mind i was confusing it with compute units :-|

it seems that the last time amd had more ROPs per Cu was with 290x, vega is bigger than expected, with might point to a higher than 64 rops 

If they stick with the same ratio as Polaris, Vega will have 64 ROPs, which is 33% less than the Titan Xp(p)PPp(PPp) or whatever it's called

On a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam

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11 hours ago, ivan134 said:

The estimate is a pretty dumb one too. This isn't a final indicator of anything, but let's use the RX 470/570 as an example. It has the same number of SPs as the R9 380x, but it's about 47% faster. A 4096 SP GCN 4+ GPU at 1284 MHz with the same IPC improvements would sit between the 1080 and 1080 ti at 1080p. If it clocks up to 1500, it would trade blows with the 1080 ti.

 

This is the chart I used for the math and I assumed the 1050 ti was the same speed as a 380x.

perfrel_1920_1080.png


You're very optimistic, aren't you?

 

A 4096SP chip won't run twice as fast as a 2048SP one. Look at 1060 vs 1080 performance, double the cores but only 60-70% faster.

According to AMD, MI25 will have 12.5TFLOPS in single precision, so VEGA must have around 1500 MHz core clock, unless that version will only be used for enterprise cards (hence the 300W power rating, while desktop version should sit at ~250W or less). Even at 1500 MHz, matching the 1080Ti isn't easy at all.

I really hope AMD pays very little money to GloFo to produce GPUs and CPUs, since their 14nm LPP is clearly limiting clock speeds. And it's probably a known issue, look at NVIDIA limiting the oc of 1050 and 1050Ti (on 14nm LPP) to 1911 MHz by a driver wall. 1911 MHz isn't low, but it's lower than 10xx average OC, which sits at about 2050 MHz, and could mean that they know about 14nm LPP limits.

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15 minutes ago, Agost said:


You're very optimistic, aren't you?

 

A 4096SP chip won't run twice as fast as a 2048SP one. Look at 1060 vs 1080 performance, double the cores but only 60-70% faster.

According to AMD, MI25 will have 12.5TFLOPS in single precision, so VEGA must have around 1500 MHz core clock, unless that version will only be used for enterprise cards (hence the 300W power rating, while desktop version should sit at ~250W or less). Even at 1500 MHz, matching the 1080Ti isn't easy at all.

I really hope AMD pays very little money to GloFo to produce GPUs and CPUs, since their 14nm LPP is clearly limiting clock speeds. And it's probably a known issue, look at NVIDIA limiting the oc of 1050 and 1050Ti (on 14nm LPP) to 1911 MHz by a driver wall. 1911 MHz isn't low, but it's lower than 10xx average OC, which sits at about 2050 MHz, and could mean that they know about 14nm LPP limits.

Did you actually read what I typed? You definitely didn't because I never said anything about doubling performance because of double SPs. Also, you would be wrong. The Fury X is more than twice as fast as a 380x and it has double the SPs.

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Let's hope it hits that 1500+ with room to spare, or whatever it takes to compete with 1080 ti... Nvidia has had the top performance throne for too long (over 2 years now...)

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This is most likely the passively cooled enterprise Vega GPU

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2 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Did you actually read what I typed? You definitely didn't because I never said anything about doubling performance because of double SPs. Also, you would be wrong. The Fury X is more than twice as fast as a 380x and it has double the SPs.

According to the same source you used, the Fury X is about 60%faster than a 380X.

 

Since you were extrapolating VEGA performance by using 470/570 numbers and putting it at about double of the 570, I thought you were just doing it.

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1 hour ago, Agost said:

According to the same source you used, the Fury X is about 60%faster than a 380X.

 

Since you were extrapolating VEGA performance by using 470/570 numbers and putting it at about double of the 570, I thought you were just doing it.

I made my assumption off my own bad memory and I was wrong. So are you.

 

If 1% = 1

128 - 68 = 60

60/68 * 100 = 88%

 

Fury x is 88% faster at 1080p (this is important because Hawaii and Fiji were notorious for being underutilized at 1080p. GCN 4 doesn't have this issue but it's not a sure sign of anything)

 

Still, this is not how I got my Vega guesstimate or why I did it in the 1st place. The point was to show TPU method of guesstimating was dumb. All they did was show a theoretical where the Fury x was overclocked.  I used the 470/570 because it has the same SPs as a 380x and showed the improvements of going from a 28nm GCN 3 chip to a 14nm GCN 4 chip. This was relevant to use on the fury x because it's also a 28nm GCN 3 chip with the same amount of SPs as this "Vega" chip. Keep in mind that these aren't even confirmed specs of Vega. TPU was just extrapolating out of thin air. The 480/580 is the 1st GCN chip with 2304 SPs, so anything is possible with Vega.

 

This is why TPUs guesstimate is dumb and people in here are just lapping it up. This isn't the 1st time people have done this on this forum based on unfounded rumors and it won't be the last. I remember when @zMeul @i_build_nanosuitsand some other people said that AMD couldn't increase their IPC and that the 480 would end up only as fast as as a 380.

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  • Author
7 hours ago, Spenser1337 said:

I don't believe this, I'd be so disappointed if it was true.

You're profile picture says it all lol.

You can bark like a dog, but that won't make you a dog.

You can act like someone you're not, but that won't change who you are.

 

Finished Crysis without a discrete GPU,15 FPS average, and a lot of heart

 

How I plan my builds -

Spoiler

For me I start with the "There's no way I'm not gonna spend $1,000 on a system."

Followed by the "Wow I need to buy the OS for a $100!?"

Then "Let's start with the 'best budget GPU' and 'best budget CPU' that actually fits what I think is my budget."

Realizing my budget is a lot less, I work my way to "I think these new games will run on a cheap ass CPU."

Then end with "The new parts launching next year is probably gonna be better and faster for the same price so I'll just buy next year."

 

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2 hours ago, ivan134 said:

I made my assumption off my own bad memory and I was wrong. So are you.

 

If 1% = 1

128 - 68 = 60

60/68 * 100 = 88%

 

Fury x is 88% faster at 1080p (this is important because Hawaii and Fiji were notorious for being underutilized at 1080p. GCN 4 doesn't have this issue but it's not a sure sign of anything)

 

On the TPU database the fury x sits at 161% the performance of the 380X, so 61% more... However it gets almost 90% faster at 4k, so let's end it up here

 

Don't get me wrong,  I want Vega to be as fast and as cheap as possible because I need a UHD capable card from the red team (I'm kinda tired of the green one)

On a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam

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12 hours ago, Prysin said:

you do realize that it isn't unlikely that 4096 shaders running too hot at 1500 MHz... try say... 1250 to 1350, sure... 1500, not sure they are going to make it that high unless they want to make another 290X

Amd has admited that polaris wasnt made for high clocks  (stupid decision) but the vega slides have said multiple times that vega is made for high clocks. They are speccing the pro version of vega at 12,5tflops which when you have 4096 stream processors that means 1526mhz. So the comsumer version should be even higher as usual about power amd now has tiled based rasterizer which should help reduce power consumption.

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Posted
13 hours ago, Prysin said:

you do realize that it isn't unlikely that 4096 shaders running too hot at 1500 MHz... try say... 1250 to 1350, sure... 1500, not sure they are going to make it that high unless they want to make another 290X

The only problem with the 290x is that the reference cooler sucked. The board partner models for hawai were great, including overclock headroom.

Besides efficiency has improved with every new architecture since then, and now Vega willl be the most efficient GPU that AMD has ever created. 

 

The polaris refresh rx580 variants are commonly available with boost clocks of just over 1400Mhz. Vega is going to be manufactured on the same 14nm process. And it's a newer design with less constraints to 1500Mhz is reasonable.

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3 hours ago, Humbug said:

The only problem with the 290x is that the reference cooler sucked. The board partner models for hawai were great, including overclock headroom.

Besides efficiency has improved with every new architecture since then, and now Vega willl be the most efficient GPU that AMD has ever created. 

 

The polaris refresh rx580 variants are commonly available with boost clocks of just over 1400Mhz. Vega is going to be manufactured on the same 14nm process. And it's a newer design with less constraints to 1500Mhz is reasonable.

yes, Polaris refresh has higher clocks. Can you tell me another number regarding Polaris refresh that shot up wildly as a result?

Current setup

Images of setup: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/183-show-off-your-setup/?p=5872590

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7 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Can you tell me another number regarding Polaris refresh that shot up wildly as a result?

Overclockability? :P 
/jk
Power draw has gone up, but that's a good thing because it means that the new process is better for overclocks.

seriously though if you downclock an rx580 to rx480 levels the power draw gets closer to a 1060, although nothing from AMD beats the efficiency of a gtx 1070 (except for maybe the radeon pro duo with fiji GPU which was heavily downclocked) yet.

hello!

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Spoiler

Desktop: X99-PC

CPU: i7 5820k

Mobo: X99 Deluxe

Cooler: Dark Rock Pro 3

RAM: 32GB DDR4
GPU: GTX 1080

Storage: 1TB 850 Evo, 1TB HDD, bunch of external hard drives
PSU: EVGA G2 750w

Peripherals: Logitech G502, Ducky One 711

Audio: Xonar U7, O2 amplifier (RIP), HD6XX

Monitors: 4k 24" Dell monitor, 1080p 24" Asus monitor

 

Laptop:

-Overkill Dell XPS

Fully maxed out early 2017 Dell XPS 15, GTX 1050 4GB, 7700HQ, 1TB nvme SSD, 32GB RAM, 4k display. 97Whr battery :x 
Dell was having a $600 off sale for the fully specced out model, so I decided to get it :P

 

-Crapbook

Fully specced out early 2013 Macbook "pro" with gt 650m and constant 105c temperature on the CPU (GPU is 80-90C) when doing anything intensive...

A 2013 laptop with a regular sized battery still has better battery life than a 2017 laptop with a massive battery! I think this is a testament to apple's ability at making laptops, or maybe how little CPU technology has improved even 4+ years later (at least, until the recent introduction of 15W 4 core CPUs). Anyway, I'm never going to get a 35W CPU laptop again unless battery technology becomes ~5x better than as it is in 2018.

Apple knows how to make proper consumer-grade laptops (they don't know how to make pro laptops though). I guess this mostly software power efficiency related, but getting a mac makes perfect sense if you want a portable/powerful laptop that can do anything you want it to with great battery life.

 

 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Prysin said:

yes, Polaris refresh has higher clocks. Can you tell me another number regarding Polaris refresh that shot up wildly as a result?

The price! Damn 580's are silly; specially Asus taking the mick. Bastards want £320 for their 580 STRIX.

Asus tax strikes again!

5950X | NH D15S | 64GB 3200Mhz | RTX 3090 | ASUS PG348Q+MG278Q

 

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