Does a Amp improve sound quality in any way?

[acercon]

So, I have just received my K7XX and I don't think my motherboard can power these properly(Gigabyte 990fxa UD3 rev 4), It doesn't get as loud as I expect on full volume but that's fine because I won't be listening to these on max volume for a long period of time. I heard that if I get an amp it does not increase volume but creates the power necessary to drive a signal at different levels, does that mean it will improve the way these headphones sound? Also what are some good amps that are not too expensive and will do the job

Thanks!

[Hunched]

Yes.

While I'm not an audio expert, one of the main things that should be drastically improved is bass power. 

If you're lacking drive bass will be weak.

[HalGameGuru]

IT can definitely make it worse, making it better not so much except that it can allow the originator of the signal to produce a less amplified cleaner signal to the stand alone amp that can boost it better. Bass is more a question of driver and sensitivity than mere amplification

[SSL]

An amp allows a transducer to work. A more powerful amp will allow for a louder volume. Some amps can sound different than others, which implies that some amps might have a sound that is preferable to others.

 

For a $200 headphone, this is all moot. If you can afford an amp, you can afford better headphones and should put your money there first.

 

4 minutes ago, Hunched said:

While I'm not an audio expert, one of the main things that should be drastically improved is bass power. 

If you're lacking drive bass will be weak.

 

That isn't how these things work.

[Hunched]

6 minutes ago, SSL said:

That isn't how these things work.

Eh.

I was pretty sure if you didn't deliver the required ohms a pair of headphones required you would lose performance.

[Enderman]

amp = amplifier = amplifies sound = louder

 

quality will depend on how good the DAC is, how good the amp is, and how good your headphones are

 

 

1 minute ago, Hunched said:

Eh.

I was pretty sure if you didn't deliver the required ohms a pair of headphones required you would lose performance.

no

it just gets quieter

[Hunched]

Well in my defense I stated I was not an expert before posting incorrect information unlike most people who post incorrect information 

My bad.

[HalGameGuru]

A while back that was actually a big thing, "louder" drivers that were low quality just super low ohm, they would pull massive amounts of power, and be loud, but not nearly as sensitive nor accurate as higher ohm good quality woofers and tweeters

[spwath]

8 minutes ago, Enderman said:

amp = amplifier = amplifies sound = louder

 

quality will depend on how good the DAC is, how good the amp is, and how good your headphones are

 

 

no

it just gets quieter

Plus amps don't deliver ohms. They deliver watts. Ohms is the unit in the measure of electrical impedance. 

[SSL]

7 minutes ago, spwath said:

Plus amps don't deliver ohms. They deliver watts. Ohms is the unit in the measure of electrical impedance. 

 

Yeah. People thinking amps deliver ohms would make me mad if it wasn't so hilarious.

 

"My amp provides 600 ohms! I'm gonna answer questions in the audio sub!!!!"

[spwath]

1 minute ago, SSL said:

 

Yeah. People thinking amps deliver ohms would make me mad if it wasn't so hilarious.

 

"My amp provides 600 ohms! I'm gonna answer questions in the audio sub!!!!"

Doesnt help that motherboard manufacturers are saying they have a 600 ohm amp in them. That means nothing. And even fiio did it...

[johnt]

@Enderman your avatar looks like boob cups 

 

I know it's eyes. But not really... 

[HalGameGuru]

1 hour ago, spwath said:

-snip-

 

That's different, there IS a limit to the range of impedance an Amp can supply, I've only ever really heard concerns about the impedance being too LOW not high. An Amp rated to supply 8 ohm or better could get burned out trying to power 4 ohm drivers.

[Dackzy]

so no body is just going to link the post I have about amps and dacs.... OP look in my signature there I have a link to my post about amps and dacs, I think you might want to read that.

[spwath]

10 hours ago, HalGameGuru said:

That's different, there IS a limit to the range of impedance an Amp can supply, I've only ever really heard concerns about the impedance being too LOW not high. An Amp rated to supply 8 ohm or better could get burned out trying to power 4 ohm drivers.

Yeah, but that's mostly a problem with speakers. And I'm saying motherboards say They can drive up to 600 ohms, that means nothing.

[HalGameGuru]

I haven't checked up on it but there may also BE an upper limit to the impedance they can feed. If you have a bunch of speakers wired up that can happen. And apparently grossly mismatched impedances CAN cause issues, according to the second document.

 

http://cie-wc.edu/Series_Parallel_9_14.pdf

 

https://www.minicircuits.com/app/AN60-038.pdf

[SSL]

30 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

I haven't checked up on it but there may also BE an upper limit to the impedance they can feed. If you have a bunch of speakers wired up that can happen. And apparently grossly mismatched impedances CAN cause issues, according to the second document.

 

http://cie-wc.edu/Series_Parallel_9_14.pdf

 

https://www.minicircuits.com/app/AN60-038.pdf

 

We're concerned about headphones here, not weird speaker edge cases, where the power requirements are greater by 2-3 orders of magnitude. While impedance matching is desirable with speakers to ensure the most efficient power delivery, headphone amps are generally designed with 0-8ohms output impedance.

 

Headphones exist with impedance in excess of 1000 ohms, and studio headphones are deliberately designed with high impedance so that they impose a reasonable current demand when multiple are connected to the same piece of equipment. Headphone amps are almost always voltage sources, which means that increasing the load impedance just reduces the resulting output volume; it doesn't really degrade performance like a current-hungry load would.

[HalGameGuru]

I have never seen a headphone amp looking for impedance that low, I've never seen a set of headphones with lower than 32 ohm impedance, with GOOD ones being much higher. But that is a big difference between a headphone amp and the 600 Ohm shenanigans of a motherboard amp, where you CAN have a full set of speakers coming off the one amp integral to the mobo

 

And if you read the papers it wasn't merely efficiency but signal degradation and feedback that was also an issue with a gross mismatch

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, HalGameGuru said:

I have never seen a headphone amp looking for impedance that low, I've never seen a set of headphones with lower than 32 ohm impedance, with GOOD ones being much higher. But that is a big difference between a headphone amp and the 600 Ohm shenanigans of a motherboard amp, where you CAN have a full set of speakers coming off the one amp integral to the mobo

A lot of on the go headphones are 16Ohm... Let me just tell you something a lot of good headphones has low impedance just look at HE 400s they are 22O hm and the HE 560 are 45 Ohm heck even the HE 1000 are 35 Ohm.

[spwath]

6 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

I have never seen a headphone amp looking for impedance that low, I've never seen a set of headphones with lower than 32 ohm impedance, with GOOD ones being much higher. But that is a big difference between a headphone amp and the 600 Ohm shenanigans of a motherboard amp, where you CAN have a full set of speakers coming off the one amp integral to the mobo

 

And if you read the papers it wasn't merely efficiency but signal degradation and feedback that was also an issue with a gross mismatch

But that wont matter much with the low power of headphones.

 

Also, output impedance is different from the impedance of headphones.

When an amp says they have a 600 ohm, or 300 ohm, or whatever amp, that means nothing. Its not stating the output impedance, or the impedance it can drive, because there is no measureable way to do that, as there are much bigger factors at stake.

[HalGameGuru]

All of those are 16 or higher, right in line with the Fiio linked. GOOD headphones are not going to have an impedance of 8 or 2

[HalGameGuru]

2 minutes ago, spwath said:

But that wont matter much with the low power of headphones.

 

Also, output impedance is different from the impedance of headphones.

When an amp says they have a 600 ohm, or 300 ohm, or whatever amp, that means nothing. Its not stating the output impedance, or the impedance it can drive, because there is no measureable way to do that, as there are much bigger factors at stake.

Read the papers, it can have an effect, an amp can be made to handle certain resistances better than others and the effect of going far outside that comfort zone is feedback and degradation. Not always audible but it can effect the amp or driver.

 

Specifically the FAQ of the second one, I believe

[SSL]

16 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

I have never seen a headphone amp looking for impedance that low, I've never seen a set of headphones with lower than 32 ohm impedance, with GOOD ones being much higher. But that is a big difference between a headphone amp and the 600 Ohm shenanigans of a motherboard amp, where you CAN have a full set of speakers coming off the one amp integral to the mobo

 

And if you read the papers it wasn't merely efficiency but signal degradation and feedback that was also an issue with a gross mismatch

 

1. OUTPUT impedance, 0-8ohms. The amp is not "looking for" that impedance in the load, that is how much impedance the amp itself presents to the load.
2. NO. You cannot run passive speakers from ANY motherboard. Those speakers that you can connect to a motherboard (7.1 etc) are taking a line-level signal (basically just a voltage to carry the analog audio signal) and amplify it at the speaker. In other words, they are powered/active speakers.
3. Define "gross mismatch" in the context of headphones. Is connecting a headphone that peaks at 1000 ohms to an amp with an output impedance of 0.1 ohms constituting a gross mismatch?

[spwath]

2 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

1. OUTPUT impedance, 0-8ohms. The amp is not "looking for" that impedance in the load, that is how much impedance the amp itself presents to the load.
2. NO. You cannot run passive speakers from ANY motherboard. Those speakers that you can connect to a motherboard (7.1 etc) are taking a line-level signal (basically just a voltage to carry the analog audio signal) and amplify it at the speaker. In other words, they are powered/active speakers.
3. Define "gross mismatch" in the context of headphones. Is connecting a headphone that peaks at 1000 ohms to an amp with an output impedance of 0.1 ohms constituting a gross mismatch?

They should put a speaker amp on some motherboards, or a sound card. That would be pretty cool.

[HalGameGuru]

I've run plenty of passive L/R speakers from a PC. It's clunky but the mobo has an AMP and will put out power for volume. I've got a set of Harmon Kardons from HP from back in the day that are passive. 3.5 headphone jacks. Check Realtek's surround software, its expecting passive speakers.

 

The gross mismatch wasn't specifically about headphone, just as the comentary on the "600 Ohm" motherboard amp wasn't directly related to the OP. These responses are in relation to earlier tangential commentary, not the OP.

 

A headphone amp wants a certain impedance, you try to run real speakers with it you will have a bad time. 

 

Try to run a 2 Ohm speaker setup on the Fiio amp, not gonna be pretty, if it survives