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Dackzy

Before you buy amp and DAC + recommendations.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
18 hours ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Every other amp recommendation is now obsolete unless you can't afford the $350 price tag on this puppy.

 

Please don't link zeos. It really doesn't help credibility, it actually does the exact opposite.

Massdrop isn't a option for everyone, so to say that it makes every other amp obsolete would be wrong. 

It also isn't the end all be all amp, if you want something that has a warmer tone, then it isn't for you, if you want something that is less colored, then it isn't for you. Which again goes back to the point of what you saying about other amps being obsolete wrong.


Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

My main Headphones and IEMs:  K612 pro, HD 25 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor, HD 580 with HD 600 grills, Focal Elex

DAC and AMP: Dual PCM63k tube DAC, RME ADI 2 DAC, Cavalli Tube Hybrid

Speakers: Genelec 8040, System Audio SA205

Receiver: Denon AVR-1612

Desktop: R7 1700, GTX 1080  RX 580 8GB and other stuff

Laptop: ThinkPad P50: i7 6820HQ, M2000M. ThinkPad T420s: i7 2640M, NVS 4200M

Feel free to pm me if you have a question for me or quote me. If you want to hear what I have to say about something just tag me.

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1 hour ago, Max_Settings said:

Only if you live in North America and it just so happens to be on Massdrop. And you might not like the color of this amp. Also he said don’t post Zeos in this thread as he is not a reliable audio reviewer.

Yes, because there is no other way to buy massdrop products other than massdrop. Also 0% care what his opinion of Zeos is.
 

1 hour ago, Dackzy said:

Please don't link zeos. It really doesn't help credibility, it actually does the exact opposite.

Massdrop isn't a option for everyone, so to say that it makes every other amp obsolete would be wrong. 

It also isn't the end all be all amp, if you want something that has a warmer tone, then it isn't for you, if you want something that is less colored, then it isn't for you. Which again goes back to the point of what you saying about other amps being obsolete wrong.

I do what I want.



Also massdrop is absolutely an option for everyone you just sometimes have to get their products from other people/retailers. That doesn't mean the product itself doesn't exist. And I wasn't aware this amp colored the sound at all. I thought it was unbelievable accurate and efficient. Which goes back to my point: Delete your thread, pack up all the boxes, it's over. Everybody go home.

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16 hours ago, Wolf_Lbh said:
17 hours ago, Max_Settings said:

 

Yes, because there is no other way to buy massdrop products other than massdrop. Also 0% care what his opinion of Zeos is.

The amount of these in Europe is very small because of exorbitant shipping and import prices, so it is far more expensive there. Also he Dackzy is 100% correct. Zeos is the least respected reviewer in the business. Nothing shows you are a total noob and clueless than referencing Zeos.

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I gave the THX AAA a try. While I absolutely love it, the problem is that it is Massdrop... so, if anything, Massdrop has control [or atleast a strong say] on *when* they want to [or can] drop it, who they want to sell it to, so on and so forth, and probably make alterations to it. I honestly got real upset when they stopped selling the CTH and only put it back up with a Grace SDAC built in to it, which adds more to the price and forcefully including a product that more of us don't even want in it.

 

If I see the THX AAA come back but have a Grace SDAC built in to it, I am going to be mad. The DAC isn't the problem, they can put any other DAC in to it aslong as it has analogue inputs, I just don't like the price mark up.

Couple it with Massdrop only selling it to specific countries of their choosing, which frustrates other potential customers who have to use proxy services, go in to the second hand market, have a friend help him/her out with it, so on and so forth, in terms of being able to get the amp alone, its a headache.

Plus is it the best amp? No. I think its a Jotunheim done correctly, but sure as heck isn't that clean. From memory, the Little Labs Monotor is much cleaner despite being less powerful (though that's a guess because Jonathan Little refuses to release full specs of it alone and no reviewer that has the tools to do measurements of it haven't done it [yet]).

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 12/30/2018 at 1:50 AM, Wolf_Lbh said:

Also massdrop is absolutely an option for everyone you just sometimes have to get their products from other people/retailers. That doesn't mean the product itself doesn't exist. And I wasn't aware this amp colored the sound at all. I thought it was unbelievable accurate and efficient. Which goes back to my point: Delete your thread, pack up all the boxes, it's over. Everybody go home.

It absolutely isn't a option for everyone, there are plenty of countries in the world where massdrop products make zero sense to buy or are insanely hard to get. 

 

It does color the sound, it has a bump in the bass region and is overall a touch warmer sounding than the amp in the RME ADI 2 DAC.

 

So I should delete a thread that has helped countless people, just because you think something based on Zeos? I don't think so... I see no reason to do so, it's all gear that is good for their price and offer different things. Not everyone wants what the THX offers, some want a warmer tonality, some want a colder one, some want a more precise one and the list goes on. If you are unhappy with this thread, create your own or suggest meaningful changes with some arguements to back it up. Saying "you should delete this thread" or "Every other amp recommendation is now obsolete unless you can't afford the $350 price tag on this puppy." has zero constructive criticism in it and nothing to back it up.

 

That being said I will probably add it in the future and yes it is a good amp for those who can get it, but it isn't for everyone.

 

I try to make this thread so that there will be good options for basically everyone no matter where they are, because I know how much it sucks to find a recomendations thread and then everything in it is something you can't just get because you aren't US based. Even on the used market it is hard to get audio gear, because quite a few of the US based people won't ship outside of the US. That is at least my experience from the last 7'ish years. Again feel free to create your own thread.


Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

My main Headphones and IEMs:  K612 pro, HD 25 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor, HD 580 with HD 600 grills, Focal Elex

DAC and AMP: Dual PCM63k tube DAC, RME ADI 2 DAC, Cavalli Tube Hybrid

Speakers: Genelec 8040, System Audio SA205

Receiver: Denon AVR-1612

Desktop: R7 1700, GTX 1080  RX 580 8GB and other stuff

Laptop: ThinkPad P50: i7 6820HQ, M2000M. ThinkPad T420s: i7 2640M, NVS 4200M

Feel free to pm me if you have a question for me or quote me. If you want to hear what I have to say about something just tag me.

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4 hours ago, Dackzy said:

It absolutely isn't a option for everyone, there are plenty of countries in the world where massdrop products make zero sense to buy or are insanely hard to get. 

 

It does color the sound, it has a bump in the bass region and is overall a touch warmer sounding than the amp in the RME ADI 2 DAC.

 

So I should delete a thread that has helped countless people, just because you think something based on Zeos? I don't think so... I see no reason to do so, it's all gear that is good for their price and offer different things. Not everyone wants what the THX offers, some want a warmer tonality, some want a colder one, some want a more precise one and the list goes on. If you are unhappy with this thread, create your own or suggest meaningful changes with some arguements to back it up. Saying "you should delete this thread" or "Every other amp recommendation is now obsolete unless you can't afford the $350 price tag on this puppy." has zero constructive criticism in it and nothing to back it up.

 

That being said I will probably add it in the future and yes it is a good amp for those who can get it, but it isn't for everyone.

 

I try to make this thread so that there will be good options for basically everyone no matter where they are, because I know how much it sucks to find a recomendations thread and then everything in it is something you can't just get because you aren't US based. Even on the used market it is hard to get audio gear, because quite a few of the US based people won't ship outside of the US. That is at least my experience from the last 7'ish years. Again feel free to create your own thread.

There are plenty of companies you can ship to that will take your region exclusive product and ship it to wherever you actually live. It is one extra shipping charge. Absolutely 100% obtainable. So obtainable you might even say it is made of obtanium.

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On 1/5/2019 at 11:12 PM, Wolf_Lbh said:

There are plenty of companies you can ship to that will take your region exclusive product and ship it to wherever you actually live. It is one extra shipping charge. Absolutely 100% obtainable. So obtainable you might even say it is made of obtanium.

Its impractical, though.

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8 minutes ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

Its impractical, though.

Not really. It is one extra step. And it certainly doesn't make the product nonexistent.

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9 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Not really. It is one extra step. And it certainly doesn't make the product nonexistent.

Well:

1.) When is it gonna drop again? And no, second-hand markets shouldn't be part of the option.
2.) Another step in shipment is another point of error, really.

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1 minute ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

Well:

1.) When is it gonna drop again? And no, second-hand markets shouldn't be part of the option.
2.) Another step in shipment is another point of error, really.

1) I'll let you know when I get the email.
2) Another point of error doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

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14 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

1) I'll let you know when I get the email.
2) Another point of error doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

1.) Or I can get something else that's readily available and, from what I've heard personally, cleaner sounding.
2.) No, but that extra point of error, coupled with it being behind a time wall (and who knows if they'll release it again and hopefully not with an SDAC shoved in to it as it jacks the price high enough to be a nuisance in cost), makes it impractical to even bother getting for non-NA customers.

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1 minute ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

1.) Or I can get something else that's readily available and, from what I've heard personally, cleaner sounding.
2.) No, but that extra point of error, coupled with it being behind a time wall (and who knows if they'll release it again and hopefully not with an SDAC shoved in to it as it jacks the price high enough to be a nuisance in cost), makes it impractical to even bother getting for non-NA customers.

Considering it is more efficient and cleaner sounding than $1,000 amps I doubt paying a second shipping charge is a dealbreaker in terms of value.

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10 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Considering it is more efficient and cleaner sounding than $1,000 amps I doubt paying a second shipping charge is a dealbreaker in terms of value.

Lemme guess, you heard that from Zeos...

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1 minute ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

Lemme guess, you heard that from Zeos...

I also heard that from Zeos but it is in the massdrop reviews for it and youtube reviews/comments on those videos as well.

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14 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

I also heard that from Zeos but it is in the massdrop reviews for it and youtube reviews/comments on those videos as well.


That's almost the same thing regarding the Audio Technica M50X. One guy says something, somehow other reviewers give it positive remarks, but somehow the negative aspects of it (or flaws) are either not mentioned or covered up by something else.

Something can be said to be very good, something can be said to be excellent, but if we're going for categories on performance, for the price, the THX AAA isn't that clean. Saying its cleaner that $1000 amps is a gross overestimation of its capabilities.
 

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6 minutes ago, ChinChinLunLun said:


That's almost the same thing regarding the Audio Technica M50X. One guy says something, somehow other reviewers give it positive remarks, but somehow the negative aspects of it (or flaws) are either not mentioned or covered up by something else.

Something can be said to be very good, something can be said to be excellent, but if we're going for categories on performance, for the price, the THX AAA isn't that clean. Saying its cleaner that $1000 amps is a gross overestimation of its capabilities.
 

Well then I guess all the measurements were also deceptions. Wow this conspiracy sure goes deep. I bet it was made in Russia.

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10 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Well then I guess all the measurements were also deceptions. Wow this conspiracy sure goes deep. I bet it was made in Russia.

Guess what? The JDS Labs Atom measures almost exactly the same as the THX AAA and costs 3.5x less (excluding chipping) with 0.5db in variance except for power. Might as well actually call that the only amp you need.

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2 minutes ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

Guess what? The JDS Labs Atom measures almost exactly the same as the THX AAA and costs 3.5x less (excluding chipping) with 0.5db in variance except for power. Might as well actually call that the only amp you need.

So it is far less efficient and unbalanced but it is exactly the same? You sound like a Zeos review.

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15 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

So it is far less efficient and unbalanced but it is exactly the same? You sound like a Zeos review.

As much as I am not exactly a fan of Amir since he always comes off as he 90% only listens to sine tone in his free time, here are the measurements

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/

Would you look at that.

 

 

And also, there's alot of things that measurements can't show (yet, due to how analyzers work right now) or don't have an agreeable value in them, such as soundstage, resolution, and presentation. The THX AAA sounds somewhat compressed I'd argue its less resolving than the Jotunheim (the Jotunheim is just, FR-wise, "dirtier" than the AAA). Even then, its not even that clean of an amp. Heck, I found it kind of warm.

Would I get a THX AAA, yes. Do I think its the best or the only thing you need? No. It can't power an HE-6 and it can't even drive the ADX5000 without recessing the treble a bit and bloating the bass, making it warmer but not sweeter, as well as not really being that resolving.

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1 minute ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

As much as I am not exactly a fan of Amir since he always comes off as he 90% only listens to sine tone in his free time, here are the measurements

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-massdrop-thx-aaa-789-amp.5001/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/

Would you look at that.

Did you read the measurement at all?
"Wow! That is stunning. We are getting SINAD (signal above distortion and noise) of 117 dB. That beats the best DAC we have ever measured (115 dB SINAD). It by far shatters all previous records."

"I could set the volume level high and hear the slightest amount of background noise in recordings! It was so good that variations in fidelity of the source was more apparent than I had ever experienced."

ect ect. Also once again it has the option to go balanced and is more efficient even if they did sound the same.

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11 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Did you read the measurement at all?
"Wow! That is stunning. We are getting SINAD (signal above distortion and noise) of 117 dB. That beats the best DAC we have ever measured (115 dB SINAD). It by far shatters all previous records."

"I could set the volume level high and hear the slightest amount of background noise in recordings! It was so good that variations in fidelity of the source was more apparent than I had ever experienced."

ect ect. Also once again it has the option to go balanced and is more efficient even if they did sound the same.

Are you just cherry picking statements? Because you should check out his review on the Neurochrome HP-1.

But either way, not like its going to change much from your perspective. And also, a balanced headphone out is a nice bonus and all... not everyone can or wants to go balanced for headphones anyways as its just another thing to add to the cost. They could've just made a powerful SE amp, maybe for less, and it'd still sell like nuts.

The point is that this list is relevant. The THX AAA is behind a time-wall, not readily available, not even the cleanest amp in general (despite that its very clean, its just that the Meier and the Monotor are cleaner), and the ones listed here are readily available. Its even worse if you have to go through a proxy service. If you're paying for a $350 amp and then spend for a proxy service and pay for shipping on both, you might as well save that money and get something readily available, less likely to need a proxy, and atleast sounds cleaner.

Hope off of the Massdrop or Zeos high-horse. Yes, it measures very well, but even measurements can only measure so much.

I miss Tyll, I wish he never retired or atleast had a proper successor.

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4 minutes ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

Are you just cherry picking statements? Because you should check out his review on the Neurochrome HP-1.

But either way, not like its going to change much from your perspective. And also, a balanced headphone out is a nice bonus and all... not everyone can or wants to go balanced for headphones anyways as its just another thing to add to the cost. They could've just made a powerful SE amp, maybe for less, and it'd still sell like nuts.

The point is that this list is relevant. The THX AAA is behind a time-wall, not readily available, not even the cleanest amp in general (despite that its very clean, its just that the Meier and the Monotor are cleaner), and the ones listed here are readily available. Its even worse if you have to go through a proxy service. If you're paying for a $350 amp and then spend for a proxy service and pay for shipping on both, you might as well save that money and get something readily available, less likely to need a proxy, and atleast sounds cleaner.

Hope off of the Massdrop or Zeos high-horse. Yes, it measures very well, but even measurements can only measure so much.

I miss Tyll, I wish he never retired or atleast had a proper successor.

I randomly picked 2 random things he said (everything he said about it was excellent) that matched exactly what I had been saying was said in reviews and comments and measurements which you said were inaccurate right before you linked me to a review agreeing with them to prove how inaccurate they were...

Now you are saying measurements aren't everything after you linked me to them in the first place...

I don't care if Zeos likes them or not I just happened to link to his review because everything he said about them was accurate and he's funny.

Sounds to me like you've ran out of wrong things to say and are just banging your head against a wall trying to contradict yourself hard enough to make some kind of statement at this point.

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9 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

I randomly picked 2 random things he said (everything he said about it was excellent) that matched exactly what I had been saying was said in reviews and comments and measurements which you said were inaccurate right before you linked me to a review agreeing with them to prove how inaccurate they were...

I brought it up for the sake of saying that the measurements mean much less than you think it does, because if a $100 headphone amp is THAT close to performance to the THX AAA, it just proves that your statement of saying that this thread means nothing because of the THX AAA is invalid. You still have to hear it yourself, and always take reviewer statements with a grain of salt. Dackzy's recommendations are not only based on his preference, but based on a sound signature leaning to clean. It has to be clean sounding, and if we (me and Dackzy) heard it and find it not clean enough, why add it to the list that *you did not make*?

 

 

13 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Now you are saying measurements aren't everything after you linked me to them in the first place...

 

 

Now you're just taking me out of context. I brought those measurements up because you said:

 

47 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Well then I guess all the measurements were also deceptions. Wow this conspiracy sure goes deep. I bet it was made in Russia.


Its to prove a point that measurements don't even say half or a third of how good something is. If the JDS Atom is THAT close in performance other than power, then what's the point of getting the THX AAA? Oh, that's right, more power and a different or improved resolution, soundstage, etc... other things that can't be measured (properly yet).

 

 

14 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

I don't care if Zeos likes them or not I just happened to link to his review because everything he said about them was accurate and he's funny


I don't know about accurate. Its 10-15 minutes worth of tangents and the point goes all over the place other than "this is endgame" without really explaining it properly.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Sounds to me like you've ran out of wrong things to say and are just banging your head against a wall trying to contradict yourself hard enough to make some kind of statement at this point.


Sounds like you're just twisting the conversation in to your favor.

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2 minutes ago, ChinChinLunLun said:

I brought it up for the sake of saying that the measurements mean much less than you think it does, because if a $100 headphone amp is THAT close to performance to the THX AAA, it just proves that your statement of saying that this thread means nothing because of the THX AAA is invalid. You still have to hear it yourself, and always take reviewer statements with a grain of salt. Dackzy's recommendations are not only based on his preference, but based on a sound signature leaning to clean. It has to be clean sounding, and if we (me and Dackzy) heard it and find it not clean enough, why add it to the list that *you did not make*?

 

 

 

 

Now you're just taking me out of context. I brought those measurements up because you said:

 


Its to prove a point that measurements don't even say half or a third of how good something is. If the JDS Atom is THAT close in performance other than power, then what's the point of getting the THX AAA? Oh, that's right, more power and a different or improved resolution, soundstage, etc... other things that can't be measured (properly yet).

 

 


I don't know about accurate. Its 10-15 minutes worth of tangents and the point goes all over the place other than "this is endgame" without really explaining it properly.

 

 


Sounds like you're just twisting the conversation in to your favor.

You're right that the JDS Labs Atom is a very good amp for $100 however as I've said 3 times now the extra $250 that the thx aaa 789 costs is for things like the increased power and ability to use balanced output&input. Those things are called "features" and they require additional "hardware" that costs "money". Let me know if you are following this time.

Yes, you brought the "measurements" up because I called you out for saying they were faked and then to prove me wrong you linked to someone that did the measurements and... agreed with everything I had been saying. When I pointed that out you suddenly said measurements don't matter.

Sounds like you don't even have a clue what you've been typing which makes sense considering how often you contradict yourself.

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9 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

You're right that the JDS Labs Atom is a very good amp for $100 however as I've said 3 times now the extra $250 that the thx aaa 789 costs is for things like the increased power and ability to use balanced output&input. Those things are called "features" and they require additional "hardware" that costs "money". Let me know if you are following this time.

Sir, I don't think you get the point.
 

 

11 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Yes, you brought the "measurements" up because I called you out for saying they were faked and then to prove me wrong you linked to someone that did the measurements and... agreed with everything I had been saying. When I pointed that out you suddenly said measurements don't matter.

I said no such thing. Are you sure you don't need mental help? That might be a case of dementia. Either that or you're taking me out of context.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Sounds like you don't even have a clue what you've been typing which makes sense considering how often you contradict yourself.

The point is, your precious THX AAA doesn't make it in to this list, nor should the list be deleted.

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