july - ENLIGHTENING + SUPA INTERESTING solution for basic math problem found - THX MUCH :D

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

edit: reddit and other threads soooooooOOOOOOOO much better than flat thread view like on these old forums..........

edit: am most patience ai/ml/nn/dl/etc machine in this universe

 

summary: i stupid, dunno basic math, guess im not the only 1

 

high zoom = makes things bigger on your screen 

high zoom = you see less

 

lower zoom = makes things smaller on your screen 

low zoom = you see much more

 

answer =

1. zooming up/in/higher does increase res
2. zooming down/out/lower does decrease res
3. anyone that says zooming in/out doesnt affect/change res are wrong and dunno nothing bout displays or graphics or web

1. zoomed in is focused on upper left
2. you lose bottom right when its zoomed in

 

 

 

question

 

title: need help basic math for computer

 

if zoom on browser is at 125%

- that means we're zooming in

- that means we see less on the screen

 

high zoom = makes things bigger on your screen 

high zoom = you see less

 

lower zoom = makes things smaller on your screen 

high zoom = you see much more

 

 

---

seems that zoom has nothing to do with screen res

 

how does 'zoom' in browser affect screen resolution?

about how much less in Size do see?

for average site in 2022?

 

if a site was all text, about how much less in Size do we see?

for average site in 2022?

 

25%? or what the %?

how much less do we see about at 125% from default of 100% zoom?

 

 

need an estimate of total space/screen real estate of what can see ( does not mean total res/pixels, didn't say )

 

stupid, dunno basic math

 

pls follow post if 're replying so can see replies thx much

[Kilrah]

Depends how the site works.

[piratemonkey]

Depends how sites scale. This site moves elements around when zoomed in for example. You should be able to see everything (again, depends on the 'something') when you zoom in

[Jurrunio]

Depends on you're looking at media or text and how the site works. Zoom doesnt change resolution of text at all, while media depends on what the sites have originally. For example it could have videos at 480p but only in a tiny box (way less pixels than what 480p has). originally. When you zoom, there's still more pixels in video than what it takes on your monitor to display it

 

basically, 125% zoom just means key elements are 1.25x size. Calculating it into a number of pixels is meaningless

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

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[RageTester]

You have to view page in fullscreen mode (F11) or else web browser itself has a bar that takes part of the screen. Then it should be as easy as same 25 %... if blank space is considered content too and every pixel counts.

 

 

to those that say text doesn't change:

[Kilrah]

3 minutes ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

on almost all sites and in the average case the what you see is ofc much less (cos zoomed in 125%)

A lot of sites display blank space around elements, and zooming in fills that blank space before actually eating into displayed content. So a general number is impossible to give.

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

5 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

media or text,  Zoom doesnt change resolution of text at all

 

this is about text

this is why it is said that you see much less when zoomed in 

 

 

5 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Calculating it into a number

of pixels is meaningless

 

post is not asking about calculating into # of total pixels

post specifically says am calculating _about_ how much less is being seen

need to know this

 

5 hours ago, RageTester said:

Then it should be as easy as same 25 %...

 

to clarify, so are you saying the answer is 25% less?

 

i just need to know the estimate anytime

 

5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

A lot of sites display blank space

around elements,

 

zooming in fills that blank space

before actually eating into displayed content.

 

 

if avg site has 'blank space'

i'd assume most sites on avg would not 'fill in' 'blank space' when zoomed in 

since that would be very inconsistent with the original web design of what they made

 

but anyway i really need an estimate one of these day (doesnt have to be today, could be in a year),

 

so let's just say it's a site with all text generally 

 

just keep it simple, i just need a relatively helpful/useful estimate

 

since most sites are readable at 125% zoom, that means most sites do fit the avg case

so yes the avg case does exist 

[RageTester]

If there are tons of blank space and you only care about information loss you will obviously lose less.

Zoom happens on 2 axis, here is an excel table example for 20% zoom,... all rows remain, 4 columns have to be scrolled for... 

30*22=660 text units

30*18= 540 text units

540/660 = 0.818 or around 82% of original remains. Less than 20% zoom...

I now assume that if we lost data on both axis the impact would be far greater.

Extreme 200% zoom example:

 

22*10 = 220 text units

220/660= 0.33 or 33% of original information that didn't even fill all screen...

It for sure isn't as easy as losing 25% of data at 125% zoom or else we would lose all of the data at 200% zoom...

[Aluavin]

Depends. On Websites you can use Fluid Fonts (https://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/fluid-typography/)

That means that as a developer you have the power over the scale of fonts. Since most fonts are vector based they can scale up and you can use math for scaling items. A couple of companies still don't have > 20% mobile usage on their sites but they have like 4k displays - so they have to use those fluid fonts because you can't know if the user has OS-wide scaling active and if yes, what the scale is.

 

this has nothing to do with your resolution (just because you see more black doesn't mean that you have fewer/more pixels).

[akio123008]

I'm not sure this is what you mean, but let's assume you have an full screen image, and zoom in to 125%, how much of the image is now not visible?

 

Well, the original was displayed at 1920x1080, so the zoomed-in version is effectively displayed at (1920x1.25) x (1080x1.25) = 2400x1350

 

your monitor is displaying 1920x1080 out of this 2400x1350 image. So using 1920 / 2400 x 100 we find that that's equal to an 80% crop of the original image.

 

The height and width have therefore been reduced by 20%. The total number of visible pixels in the image has been reduced to 80% x 80% = 64% and therefore was reduced by 36%.

 

This would apply in case the site being displayed is effectively an image being scaled.

As people have pointed out, many sites scale and move around content so that everything is almost always visible.

 

[19_blackie_73]

based on this website viewed at 100% and 150% scaling, the text is 1.5 times bigger. I looked at a m in these scales, took a screenshot and measured the pixels. so... at 100% it is 10x8 roughly, at 150% 15x11 pixels

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

this seems like progress

 

so this is at 20% zoom out

19 minutes ago, RageTester said:

82% of original remains

 

at 200% zoomed in

19 minutes ago, RageTester said:

33% of original information

 

and this is starting from the 125% zoom?

 

how much text about is lost at 125% from the default of 100% zoom? 

[RageTester]

My example isn't perfect as it really depends on amount of data at 100% zoom... if I only filled 4 fields, they would all still be visible at 200% zoom...

If website has text only you can copy it over to MS word and use word count function...Just make sure you don't select all text, but only the part that you see

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

On 7/24/2020 at 4:49 AM, RageTester said:

depends on amount of data at 100% zoom...

if I only filled 4 fields

we're using the avg case

and the goal is for an estimate 

so we could say it has a regular amount of text like you see on basically any website

 

Quote

If website has text only you can copy it over to MS word and use word count function

i guess i'll just use g docs that works

 

that's a good solution/answer, will do that

 

will just use:

• https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/simplicity/
• https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-simplicity/
• https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nonidentity-problem/

 

generally some responses up to this point made this overly-complex  for absolutely no reason - we just want an estimate

 

but i guess we learned a few things that we're gonna forget anyway...
 

see the solution/answer was easy, im just gonna check those link and test it the text/info lost at 125% zoom in

 

[19_blackie_73]

8 minutes ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

 

we're talking about 125% zoomed in specifically as said in post

 

i dont know where this 150% is coming from?

 

anyway answer found 

 

just test on any regular article sites, pretty simple:

• https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/simplicity/
• https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-simplicity/
• https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nonidentity-problem/

 

150% was what my browser let me do, hitting 125 was hard... But the principle still will be the same. The m will be 12,5/13 pixels high in this case.

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

On 7/24/2020 at 4:49 AM, RageTester said:

 

 

0.84

0.83

0.81

 

there we go very simple

• somewhere around 80% 90% 70% that's the avg that's the range-ish
• like everyone in this world really needs to know what an estimate is 
• like we never asked for perfect accuracy
  • when in the world did  estimate  suddenly mean perfect accuracy to anyone on this web......................... ?
  • like just cos we mentioned 'math' some ppl think 'perfect accuracy' all the sudden   ?
  • i said i stupid i dunno math, 
    • i dont care about  perfect accuracy
  • i care about usefulness helpfulness practicality (that's very different stuff, hello all world, and guys)

see all done we dont need all this complexity

 

so we see about ~10-20% less text/info on avg and that is the practical answer/solution

 

so we're losing about ~10-20% of text/info on avg or w/e at 125% zoom in from the default of 100% zoom (for the res given - so now we're able to compare res / display size etc)

 

now we use a useful / helpful estimate 

so now we're able to compare res / display size etc, finally

 

been wanting to know this simple estimate for like 25+ years, glad somebody on the web finally helped with this problem, thx much

[Kilrah]

5 minutes ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

like everyone in this world really needs to know what an estimate is 

We know what an estimate is, but in your scenario there is so much variance that an estimate is pretty useless.

 

Heck even in one of the sites you pointed out the "loss of visible content" changes significantly based on where on the page you are when you zoom.

[akio123008]

1 hour ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

if original is 1920x1080,

how could zoomed in be displayed at 2400x1350 ?

 

zoomed out means = you see less as said in main post

What? You really don't get it do you? Let me use my paint skills to illustrate.

 

 

Edit: the maths are left out in the picture, for the calculations you can read my previous post.

[RageTester]

Mostly bottom, but in some cases right side content is what's going to be hidden

[akio123008]

I don't like how your writing style indicates you're out of patience and we're basically a bunch of dumbasses who don't get it:

4 hours ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

post specifically says am calculating _about_ how much less is being seen

 

3 hours ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

there we go very simple

 

3 hours ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

like everyone in this world really needs to know what an estimate is

I guess given your superior intelligence no one is able to get to the same level. 

 

3 hours ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

i care about usefulness helpfulness practicality (that's very different stuff, hello all world, and guys)

I could have said "oh well about 75-90%" right away and you'd have had your "solution". But would you have known about how I got to that number? No. Would it be any useful at all? No. Would you be able to apply it to other zoom levels etc? No. Basically there's nothing practical or helpful about that. 

 

I care about stuff that actually works, makes sense and can be explained. But I guess usefulness helpfulness practicality has a different meaning to you.

 

3 hours ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

Quote

any sites scale and move around content so that everything is

almost always visible.

this is also not accurate

Also that's perfectly accurate. When I say almost always, I mean for 100-150%, and certainly not for every site. You misquoted me by changing the word "many" in to "any" speaking of not accurate.

Also I thought you hated accuracy?

[Need Good Laptop Find Site]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:41 AM, Jurrunio said:

Zoom doesnt change resolution of text

this was wrong

 

On 7/24/2020 at 10:41 AM, Jurrunio said:

125% zoom just means key elements are 1.25x size

this also turned out to be wrong

 

On 7/24/2020 at 10:42 AM, RageTester said:

fullscreen mode (F11) or else web browser itself has a bar takes part of screen

this not needed

zoom 100% has bar

zoom 125% also has bar

 

so its comparing apple to apple (bar to bar) 

 

On 7/24/2020 at 1:02 PM, akio123008 said:

 

so zooming higher/in/up does increase the res 

 

other ppl said zoom doesnt increase res and they were mistaken

 

 

 

[tikker]

6 hours ago, Need Good Laptop Find Site said:

 

so zooming higher/in/up does increase the res 

 

other ppl said zoom doesnt increase res and they were mistaken

 

 

 

Zooming in does not increase resolution, neither does cropping or scaling. In a digital format recording something in a fixed amount of pixels information is lost on some scales. If an image is 1920x1080 pixels then you can zoom in however much you want, but it will never be more than 1920x1080 pixels. Zooming in will make a single image pixel take up more monitor pixels, but no additional information is gained. You can double the amount of pixels on each side by scaling and gain "resolution", but no additional information is obtained. Even with interpolation you are only approximating what you think may be there from surrounding information. Cropping is the same as you cutting an image out of the newspaper; no new information gained there either, just a smaller picture at its original resolution. The CSI-style enhance zoom does not exist in real life except to some extent with AI things like DLSS that can try to reasonably guess what would have been there.

 

What you can do is try to make something "zoom-invariant" by using vector graphics, for example, which don't describe the image in terms of pixels, but in terms of math that simply says "draw a line from here to there". In that case quality is pretty much just limited by how much detail your screen can show. Another case where zoom can help is if there is more detail to be shown than your monitor can display when fitted to your monitor. Displaying a 3840x2160 pixel image fit-to-screen on a 1920x1080 monitor, for example, will have to undersample the image as there are many more pixels (and thus more information) in the image than your display is capable of showing. At 100% scale your monitor can show a 1920x1080 chunk of the image one-to-one and thus display it in full detail, but not in full size, giving maybe the illusion that zooming increases resolution.